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are they still drugging?

  • 18-07-2009 6:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭


    simple enough really, i was reading that "from Lance To Landis" book the last day or two, and as we all now, at one stage, 95% or even more of the peloton was doing some form of performance enhancement drugs

    just wondering, is it clean now, or just another smoke screen by the UCI?

    whats everyones thoughts


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,278 ✭✭✭kenmc


    maybe they are, maybe they're not, but what IS known for sure is that the search button is just up there ^
    Who's for popcorn??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    I reckon Lance is clean this year.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    In every walk of life there will always be cheats. People dodge taxes, cheat in exams, break laws, commit adultery, lie and do all sorts of things .
    Sport and atheltes are not exempt from the temptations all of us have and with the rewards so high some will always cheat.
    WADA is making it cleaner in all sports including cycling.
    Time will tell but TBH this question can only be answered properly in 15-20 years time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    There is also a good argument that cycling gets more attention on this question than other sports, and not necessarily because of a particularly higher level of doping. What is true is that it has a LONG history, back to the very start of the Tour de France in 1903, probably earlier.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    blorg wrote: »
    I reckon Lance is clean this year.
    He has so much to lose I totally agree


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    RobFowl wrote: »
    He has so much to lose I totally agree
    That is pretty much my thinking on the matter, why would you jeapordise the legacy... From that point of view it's good to see him doing (surprisingly) well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,576 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    probably quite a few clean riders this year, probably why there was no mad mountain attacks with people getting to the top looking fresh as daisies


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 391 ✭✭Zipp101


    I still bet we'll see a few positives in this tour.Judging by his season so far it wouldn't surprise me if Nocentini was one of them.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Yes and no is the answer. Testing has improved immeasurably and has become far more stringent. I believe the upshot is that it's possible to compete clean and for those who still dope, they can't do it to the extent they did before. However, I feel there are a significant proportion of high profile riders who still, as Jonathan Vaughters put, play with the hot sauce. Obviously on a public forum I'm not going to say who I think is at it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭E@gle.


    16448%20-%20facepalm%20picard%20star_trek.jpg%20star_trek.jpg[/URL]


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    They were in the Giro, less so in the Tour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    el tonto wrote: »
    Yes and no is the answer. Testing has improved immeasurably and has become far more stringent. I believe the upshot is that it's possible to compete clean and for those who still dope, they can't do it to the extent they did before. However, I feel there are a significant proportion of high profile riders who still, as Jonathan Vaughters put, play with the hot sauce. Obviously on a public forum I'm not going to say who I think is at it.

    sure you may as well say it, its only a forum after all, im sure none of us here work for the anti doping agency or Interpol :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,223 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    sure you may as well say it, its only a forum after all, im sure none of us here work for the anti doping agency or Interpol :D

    Tonto doesn't want to jeopardize his future career as a Eurosport commentator.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭scottreynolds


    blorg wrote: »
    That is pretty much my thinking on the matter, why would you jeapordise the legacy... From that point of view it's good to see him doing (surprisingly) well.

    However, wouldn't the converse also be true. If he did it before and got away with it why wouldn't he do it again. I think this game of guessing who taking drugs, or isn't is terrible. I'm just enjoying the racing, or slow training rides :D. You can't put you neck out and say anyone is clean without setting yourself up for disappointment again ..... just enjoy the racing..

    Actually there's only one Tour which I'm pretty sure would be clean.. thats the Tour of Singapore ....... If you've flown into Singapore you understand there policy on drugs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 RapidResults


    Actually there's only one Tour which I'm pretty sure would be clean.. thats the Tour of Singapore ....... If you've flown into Singapore you understand there policy on drugs.
    Not sure if there is a Tour of Singapore...yet...but maybe next year.

    In the Tour de Langakwi, in neighbouring Malaysia, the race rules mention the usual stuff about litter, peeing in public etc and then in big print that they had the death penalty for illegal drug use/posession/importation. That said, it's obvious they're referring to narcotics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    el tonto wrote: »
    Yes and no is the answer. Testing has improved immeasurably and has become far more stringent. I believe the upshot is that it's possible to compete clean and for those who still dope, they can't do it to the extent they did before. However, I feel there are a significant proportion of high profile riders who still, as Jonathan Vaughters put, play with the hot sauce. Obviously on a public forum I'm not going to say who I think is at it.

    sorry tonto, i only figured out you where a journalist from a post on another thread

    i think if i found out nicholas roche was drugging, id actually cry :confused:

    as for singapore, yeah, i remember going there as a child(19 years ago), and even i noticed the security to drugs then, and i was only 8, loads of armed guards in the airport, and the constant DEATH PENALTY everywhere, certainly not a place you`d want to act the sham


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    i read a report somewhere last year about the haematocrit levels of riders in the peleton at the start and finish of the tour. The unusual thing about this data was not that the riders had suspiciously high levels. In fact, all published data showed haematocrits of less than 50 (over 50% and you're in suspicion of having used some form of blood booster, be it EPO or SERA or blood doping). The unusual thing was that they showed no drop in their levels even though they had just completed a 3 week endurance event covering ridiculous distances on the bike. It is not physiological possible to maintain high haematocrit levels after 3 weeks of riding basically 4 to 6 hours every day! Your body will see a natural drop in haematocrit as the red blood cells become depleted due to chronic endurance exercise....

    So i'd say yes, they're probably all doping to some degree.

    I had an arguement after the Beijing games with a friend about doping. He was singing the praises of WADA and used the Olympics and the reduced numbers of positive tests as proof that testing is finally working and athletes are no longer risking being caught. I would take a more pessemistic view and consider the reduced number of positive test as a clear indication that the cheats have moved on to more advanced drugs for which we have no test for yet....

    Doping and testing over the years has evolved in a very similar way to evolution in nature. There is a phenomenon in evolutionary biology known as "The Red Queen Effect" and doping and testing shows all the hallmarks of this phenomenon. Two species which are in direct competition with each other will both evolve mechanisms to overcome the oponent. However both species will continue to evolve at the same rate so that neither ever gains a significant upper hand over the other. No matter how fast one runs, it cannot get away as the opponent will always keep up. Drug testing now is a highly advanced procedure, employing many different analytical tests in order to identify more advanced and varying drug types. It has evolved and improved over the years to identify more and more advanced drugs. However drugs have evolved in just the same fashion so as now we have much more advanced steroids and blood boosters employing masking agents and manipulated protein sequences so that they are not detected by the testers. The race between the testers and the dopers is one which niether side will win. At any point in time, one side will have the upper hand, until the other side evolves again. I have a suspicion that the reduced number of positive tests is simply a sign that the dopers have the upper hand at the moment.

    I was training in the Alps last winter with a Hungarian cross country skier who was training for the 2010 Olympics in biathlon. He told me a terrible anecdote about a friend who worked in a WADA lab in Budapest. Nowadays, WADA have several laboratories all over the world working on new testing procedures and trying to refine existing procedures. Whenever a new drug comes on the medical scene, be it for cancer treatment or heart disease, a sample will be sent to WADA if it is deemed to possibly have an ergogenic effect on performance in sport. WADA will then send samples to their labs in order to try and identify a positive testing protocol for the drug. The scary thing about this, is that it often takes a long time to produce a testing procedure. Therefore information on which drugs have or have not testing procedures becomes valuable information (information for which top sporting teams and sports doctors would pay top dollar for). This skier was aware of several workers from this lab who were willing to sell lists of the drugs which they had not found a positive test for. For the right price they would also provide updates as to when the testing protocols had been idetified and when they would come online as standard WADA procedure. This information could enable an athlete to remain off the testers radar for their whole career!

    I don't know whether i believe this story or not, but what it showed me was that it is all a case of money. WADA is an organisation relying on government and Olympic funding to operate. As noble and valiant their fight is with the cheaters, their budget is a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed to win. The temptation for some postgraduate chemist working in a lab is too much when you consider what professional teams would pay for the valuable information they have.

    In my opinion, with enough money and the right medical team behind you, there is absolutely nothing WADA could do to catch you......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    Therefore information on which drugs have or have not testing procedures becomes valuable information (information for which top sporting teams and sports doctors would pay top dollar for). This skier was aware of several workers from this lab who were willing to sell lists of the drugs which they had not found a positive test for. For the right price they would also provide updates as to when the testing protocols had been idetified and when they would come online as standard WADA procedure. This information could enable an athlete to remain off the testers radar for their whole career!

    bloody hell ,thats worrying, but you could see the temptation to the lab worker, probably on a decent enough wage, and for a fair chunk, he only has to hand over a list, as you said, it boils down to money at the end of the day

    i suppose doping is pretty much the same as the drug war on every street in the world, the war will never end, and 1 side will never actually win


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    i suppose doping is pretty much the same as the drug war on every street in the world, the war will never end, and 1 side will never actually win
    Doping in sport has absolutely nothing to do with problem recreational drug use; one is about cheating, the other is a completely different matter and confounding the two (as with the Boonen cocaine case) is a disaster in my opinon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    blorg wrote: »
    Doping in sport has absolutely nothing to do with problem recreational drug use; one is about cheating, the other is a completely different matter and confounding the two (as with the Boonen cocaine case) is a disaster in my opinon.

    So you accept Tom Boonen's excuse???? He's the first person i've ever known to have had his drink spiked with cocaine if thats the case. I wish more people wanted to spike my drinks with cocaine. Nights out in Dublin would be WAY more interesting!!!

    I actually agree with you that recreational drug use and doping in sport are two totally different ends of the spectrum! One group are so laid back they might actually die in their couches any second, while the other are so motivated to cheat that WADA could spend 20 times their budget and they still wouldn't catch them....

    But Boonen is guilty as sin! Anyone who thinks he's innocent is a seriously impressionable individual......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭Nietzschean


    leftism wrote: »
    But Boonen is guilty as sin! Anyone who thinks he's innocent is a seriously impressionable individual......

    I don't care if he's guilty of a bit of coke, heck i don't care if he snorts a mountain of it, it doesn't improve his performance. If anything it probably impedes it. Don't see why its any business of the WADA, whatever national laws against possession/use where ever he might be at the time could/should come into play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    blorg wrote: »
    Doping in sport has absolutely nothing to do with problem recreational drug use; one is about cheating, the other is a completely different matter and confounding the two (as with the Boonen cocaine case) is a disaster in my opinon.

    i think you`re misundersanding what i mean

    i meant that the war on doping is like the war on drugs, as in, both of them cannot actually be won, i didnt mean anything toward recreational drug abuse in cycling

    oh, and Bonnen is guilty as ****, keep the drugs in the discos, thats my motto ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    leftism wrote: »
    So you accept Tom Boonen's excuse????

    But Boonen is guilty as sin! Anyone who thinks he's innocent is a seriously impressionable individual......
    Nobody in their right mind accepts Boonen's original excuse, except maybe the UCI at the time. And he has since come clean(for want of a better word) about his cocaine problem.

    oh, and Bonnen is guilty as ****, keep the drugs in the discos, thats my motto ;)

    Well it was out of competition and probably was in a disco. He's guilty of taking cocaine out of competition. That doesn't automatically make him a PED user. I'm not saying he does or doesn't use PEDs.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    I think it's irrelevant if it's a PED or not, it's on the banned list. I do think that the list could be a bit strict, I saw marijuana and hash on it and I'd love to know how these could aid the performance of an elite athlete. Does anyone know if having a spliff could mask other PEDs (I doubt it) and even if it did would it really matter?

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    jerseyeire wrote: »
    I saw marijuana and hash on it and I'd love to know how these could aid the performance of an elite athlete.
    They increase radicalness in snowboarders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    blorg wrote: »
    Doping in sport has absolutely nothing to do with problem recreational drug use; one is about cheating, the other is a completely different matter
    You might be just looking at effects. But the chemists developing the drugs could be looking to do the same thing, develop a drug which up to now is new and so not detected by WADA or the law in the case of recreational drugs. Many recreational (and I presume sport enhancing) drugs are automatically deemed analogs (similar chemically) to other already illegal drugs, so they are often banned even if never heard of before. There is a growing market for "research chemicals", which are recreational drugs which are just outside the analog laws, so technically legal. But if abuse spreads then they do see fit to invest in all the costs involved in banning them. The banning of the "mdma substitute" BZP was the most recent publicised case.

    Some users and manufacturers would rather the new drugs are kept secret for obvious reasons. There are several "herbal smoking mixes" in the past few years which were remarkably similar to cannabis, they were sold as containing a mixture of known plants which were known to produce a high. It was then found out that they were actually containing synthetic cannabinoids. Since then these cannabinoids have been made illegal in several countries. It was only tested when the sale of it really took off, otherwise nobody would have been any the wiser.
    jerseyeire wrote: »
    Does anyone know if having a spliff could mask other PEDs (I doubt it) and even if it did would it really matter?
    Can calm nerves I think. Ronnie O'Sullivan was done for it but I doubt it was for performance enhancement. Alcohol is also banned in the olympics for some events, like shooting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    Found your post very interesting as you clearly know something about the biology of doping. But one small point: to conclude that it is all about money, you would have to believe the anecdote you passed on, no? So do you...?

    It's a story John Grisham would be proud of, by the way. (And I don't mean to suggest it's untrue: I have no way of judging.)
    leftism wrote: »
    I don't know whether i believe this story or not, but what it showed me was that it is all a case of money.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    rubadub wrote: »
    Alcohol is also banned in the olympics for some events, like shooting.

    Wonder why that is? :D

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    I'm surprised to learn there are events in which it isn't banned! (I'm picturing pi*sed-up synchronised swimmers, for example.)
    jerseyeire wrote: »
    Wonder why that is? :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    I'm surprised to learn there are events in which it isn't banned! (I'm picturing pi*sed-up synchronised swimmers, for example.)

    Michelle Smith got banned for having a bit of whiskey in her piss. I guess the testers just don't understand the irish drinking culture. Racists.

    Anyways here's a discussion on yesterday's climbing: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2314


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    Was that the wrong link?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I'm surprised to learn there are events in which it isn't banned! (I'm picturing pi*sed-up synchronised swimmers, for example.)

    I wonder if alcoholic recovery drinks are banned...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭blorg


    jerseyeire wrote: »
    I think it's irrelevant if it's a PED or not, it's on the banned list. I do think that the list could be a bit strict, I saw marijuana and hash on it and I'd love to know how these could aid the performance of an elite athlete. Does anyone know if having a spliff could mask other PEDs (I doubt it) and even if it did would it really matter?
    No, it is not "on the banned list." Cocaine is banned only in competition. Boonen took it out of competition; there was no question of him having done anything wrong in relation to doping and this was confirmed by WADA and UCI.

    Cannabis is indeed banned but again only in competition. The Olympic snowboarding gold medal winner Ross Rebagliati tested positive for it in 1998 and faced quite a fight to hang on to his medal. Just about all studies have shown it to impair performance both in terms of physical work capacity and coordination so why it is there is a good question, in some sports such as skiing or snowboarding there is a safety argument but these sports do not also ban alcohol.

    Alcohol is banned in competition in only a small limited number of sports (motor sports and shooting in particular but also karate and tenpin bowling.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,278 ✭✭✭kenmc


    blorg wrote: »
    Alcohol is banned in competition in only a small limited number of sports (motor sports and shooting in particular but also karate and tenpin bowling.)
    Really? Thought it was a pre-requisite, like darts. Wouldn't really be fair to have people practicing in the local "beer 'n' bowl" in the states and then to put them in an alien environment for competition....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Anyone wanna see a drunk high jumper? Ivan Ukhov


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,394 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Anyone wanna see a drunk high jumper? Ivan Ukhov

    That's actually the stadium of the team I followed (and still do, I was there at Christmas for a match) when I was living in Switzerland. Allez Lausanne!!!!

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    blorg wrote: »
    No, it is not "on the banned list." Cocaine is banned only in competition. Boonen took it out of competition; there was no question of him having done anything wrong in relation to doping and this was confirmed by WADA and UCI.

    Cannabis is indeed banned but again only in competition.

    This statement is ridiculous and untrue. An irish rower tested positive for cannabis last year in an out of competition test and is currently serving a two year ban.

    These substances are on the WADA banned list regardless of whether the test was in or out of competition. Boonen tested positive for cocaine. He failed a drugs test. Whether he did it in or out of competition is irrelevent and for the life of me, i cannot understand how he can get away with it!

    Its crazy to assume that professional athletes are free to go around snorting cocaine and smoking joints so long as its not on race day! What sort of an anti-doping policy would that be??? This type of ridiculous practice only seems to be tollerated by the UCI.

    Sure look at Michael Phelps! He was pictured at a house party holding a bong and there was massive pubic uproar and even a campaign orchestrated to have his 8 gold medals taken away... And he didn't even test positive for anything!

    Boonen took drugs and should serve a minimum 2 year ban! End of story


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭Nietzschean


    leftism wrote: »
    Its crazy to assume that professional athletes are free to go around snorting cocaine and smoking joints so long as its not on race day!

    Why?...if it has nothing to do with the sport why is it a sporting body's business?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    leftism wrote: »
    This statement is ridiculous and untrue. An irish rower tested positive for cannabis last year in an out of competition test and is currently serving a two year ban.

    Whatever the situation with rowing in Ireland is, Cocaine use out of competition does not breach UCI rules

    see here:
    If you look at the 2008 WADA Prohibited List, you will find a category named 'Substances and Methods Prohibited In-Competition' (i.e. only in-competition)," ... "Cocaine is in section S. 6 Stimulants. Therefore, cocaine is not prohibited when detected out-of-competition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭Nietzschean


    leftism wrote: »
    This statement is ridiculous and untrue.

    I know its the internet, but would checking your facts out be so hard before saying someone else's statement is ridiculous and untrue?

    http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2008_List_En.pdf

    See page 8, under stimulants
    In addition to the categories S1 to S5 and M1 to M3 defined above, the following categories are prohibited in competition

    Which is where cocaine is mentioned in the document.......
    S8. CANNABINOIDS
    Cannabinoids (e.g. hashish, marijuana) are prohibited.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    leftism wrote: »
    This statement is ridiculous and untrue. An irish rower tested positive for cannabis last year in an out of competition test and is currently serving a two year ban.

    These substances are on the WADA banned list regardless of whether the test was in or out of competition. Boonen tested positive for cocaine. He failed a drugs test. Whether he did it in or out of competition is irrelevent and for the life of me, i cannot understand how he can get away with it!

    Its crazy to assume that professional athletes are free to go around snorting cocaine and smoking joints so long as its not on race day! What sort of an anti-doping policy would that be??? This type of ridiculous practice only seems to be tollerated by the UCI.

    Sure look at Michael Phelps! He was pictured at a house party holding a bong and there was massive pubic uproar and even a campaign orchestrated to have his 8 gold medals taken away... And he didn't even test positive for anything!

    Boonen took drugs and should serve a minimum 2 year ban! End of story

    Blorg is corrrect. I'm not aware of the rower in question, but remember the banned list changes every year so the 2008 list was different to the 2009 list
    http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2009_Prohibited_List_ENG_Final_20_Sept_08.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,278 ✭✭✭kenmc


    Anyone wanna see a drunk high jumper? Ivan Ukhov
    Thats better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    BBC News wrote:
    England and Bath prop Matt Stevens has been banned from rugby union for two years after testing positive for cocaine following a game in December.

    ...

    The prop tested positive following Bath's Heineken Cup game against Glasgow in December.

    European Rugby Cup (ERC), the organisers of the Heineken Cup, said Stevens's sample "contained benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine, which are metabolites of cocaine".

    ERC added that "cocaine is a stimulant and is a prohibited substance" under the competition's rules, Wada's world anti-doping code and International Rugby Board regulations.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/bath/7913467.stm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,223 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    leftism wrote: »
    Its crazy to assume that professional athletes are free to go around snorting cocaine and smoking joints so long as its not on race day! What sort of an anti-doping policy would that be??? This type of ridiculous practice only seems to be tollerated by the UCI.

    There are two irreconcilable belief systems in this discussion.

    1. Pragmatic/liberal. Using performance enhancing drugs to enhance performance in competition or in training for competition is cheating, and should be punished accordingly. Recreational use is a personal issue for the individual.

    2. Dogmatic/conservative. Drugs are bad, mm-kay. Athletes have a responsibility to themselves, their sport and wider society to have nothing to do with drugs, performance-enhancing or not. Think of the children!

    The debate between 1s and 2s is as entertaining but pointless as a discussion on God between Dawkins and the Pope.

    Personally I'm in the 1 camp. If and when gene-doping becomes sufficiently refined for me to safely juice up and climb Slieve Mann like Contador climbs Verbier, I'll be leading the charge of "amateur non-competitive dopers". As it stands I'm content to limit my doping to a few expressos and a bag of jellies.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    leftism wrote: »
    This statement is ridiculous and untrue. An irish rower tested positive for cannabis last year in an out of competition test and is currently serving a two year ban.

    A rower failed an In-competition test in 2008 BTW
    http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Annual_Reports/Anti-Doping_Unit_Annual_Report_2008.pdf

    Rowing IADR 2.1* Comp
    Cannabinoids Tetrahydrocannabinol
    (THC)
    Reprimand
    and 3 weeks
    suspension


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    Just took a look at that 2008 WADA document and according to that you're right!

    Apologies for my last post...

    I'm shocked at that, but according to WADA we can all go out and start snorting cocaine and smoking joints out of competition. (seems ridiculous to me but there you go)
    As for irish athletes, the irish sports council anti-doping report last year made reference to an out of competition positive cannabis test for a rower and one other positive test (cannot remember the other sport) as the two positive tests for 2008. Hence why i jumped the gun a bit... Only explanation the ISC implement stricter standards with regards to their own out of competition testing.

    I stand by what i said about Boonen though! For a professional athlete to be using cocaine recreationally whether its out of competition or not seems highly suspicious to me....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭Ghost Rider


    How's the Temazepam working for you?
    Lumen wrote: »
    As it stands I'm content to limit my doping to a few expressos and a bag of jellies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    leftism wrote: »
    I'm shocked at that, but according to WADA we can all go out and start snorting cocaine and smoking joints out of competition.
    Looks like you can but I'm pretty sure they're not advocating you do that.
    leftism wrote: »
    I stand by what i said about Boonen though! For a professional athlete to be using cocaine recreationally whether its out of competition or not seems highly suspicious to me....
    I'd guess that like anyone with an addiction (drugs or otherwise) he would give up on the spot if he could. Now maybe he doesn't have an addiction and he is a good time Charlie, so when his results start to suffer due to his lifestyle he'll be fired.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    leftism wrote: »
    As for irish athletes, the irish sports council anti-doping report last year made reference to an out of competition positive cannabis test for a rower and one other positive test (cannot remember the other sport) as the two positive tests for 2008. ..

    4 failed tests in 2008 Rowing cannabis as above, Martial arts refusal to take test (3/12 ban), Rugby (Terbutaline/bricanyl) 3/12 ban and GAA Ventolin/salbutamol 3/12 ban


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭cantalach


    leftism wrote: »
    Its crazy to assume that professional athletes are free to go around snorting cocaine and smoking joints so long as its not on race day! What sort of an anti-doping policy would that be??? This type of ridiculous practice only seems to be tollerated by the UCI.

    Is it the potential health impact of recreational drug use or the illegality of same that concerns you? If it's the former, should the UCI also prohibit unprotected casual sex? Or running with the bulls at San Fermin? Or eating yogurt that's past it's expiry date? If it's the illegality you're concerned about, should the UCI ban cyclists who are convicted of tax evasion? Or drive without insurance?


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