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John Waters v Atheist Ireland

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    #572
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    I would be curious to know more about this.

    He's talking about the government compensation for the clerical abuse I think


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    #573
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    He's talking about the government compensation for the clerical abuse I think

    Indeed I was.


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    #574
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Nodin wrote: »
    Indeed I was.

    Is it going to be as high as one billion?


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    #575
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Nearly €1.3 billion last I heard.


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    #576
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    The schools and the constitution were set up when the country was almost exclusively catholics (or people who claimed to be catholics to fit in) and when the catholic church ran this country. That situation has changed and so the system has to change.

    Saying "we set it up to be discriminatory" is not an excuse for that situation to continue. It shouldn't have been set up that way in the first place

    I really dont know what the role of patron is. Isnt it a titular position and if its a Catholic school really only relates to say to religion classes and preparation for communion etc.

    De facto control of the school is actually with the schools Board of Management ( Staff' Parents and a local clergyman) and the School Principal.


    Other then that I understand there are also other reasons such as teaching English as a foreign language etc. In the same way a school may not be geared up to deal with people with learning disabilities.

    So what is the role of the patron etc and what is the role of the Board of Management in this context.


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    #577
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Dades wrote: »
    Nearly €1.3 billion last I heard.

    The government liability was due to Civil Service negligence and burying the evidence. No prosecutions for that either.


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    #578
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Dades wrote: »
    Nearly €1.3 billion last I heard.

    I have never protested anything in my life but I will take to the streets if we the taxpayer have to pay as much as a single cent of this money.

    I have been checking and so far have not found a single country that the taxpayer had to foot the bill.

    It is really adding insult to injury.


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    #579
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    CDfm wrote: »
    The government liability was due to Civil Service negligence and burying the evidence. No prosecutions for that either.
    This thread is off-topic enough, dontcha think? Was just quoting a figure - not pointing a finger. :)


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    #580
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    CDfm wrote: »
    The government liability was due to Civil Service negligence and burying the evidence. No prosecutions for that either.

    No prosecutions? this is so wrong. There must be something that can be done about this.


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    #581
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    Dades wrote: »
    This thread is off-topic enough, dontcha think? Was just quoting a figure - not pointing a finger. :)

    You are right it is off-topic or is it? It all comes back to the same institution in any discussion related to religion or atheism.


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    #582
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    CDfm wrote: »
    Political hot potato that one and have any politicians been involved or have they run for the hills.
    Nope, they've run for the hills. It'll be a brave and suicidal politician who'll go up against the church in this country.


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    #583
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    You are right it is off-topic or is it? It all comes back to the same institution in any discussion related to religion or atheism.
    Meh. I suppose we're on page 39 of this thread, and it's been a bit of a free-for-all already...
    Knock yeerselves out!


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    #584
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Dades wrote: »
    This thread is off-topic enough, dontcha think? Was just quoting a figure - not pointing a finger. :)

    Of course and we have a good topic going here.

    A+A dont do polarised arguments, but if it did they would be the best polarised arguments in the world:)


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    #585
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    robindch wrote: »
    Nope, they've run for the hills. It'll be a brave and suicidal politician who'll go up against the church in this country.

    I found this D of E report on when I went looking - its a real Ladybird effort IMHO and says nothing

    http://www.spd.dcu.ie/MAIN/news/documents/InterculturalEducationReport.pdf


    There are also so many interest groups and lobby groups in Education that its unreal - the National Parents Council for example

    http://www.npc.ie/npc/default.aspx


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    #586
    shoegirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    Dades wrote: »
    Reading/listening to tripe from people like Waters only makes me want to ridicule what he stands for more (and I would consider myself a moderate) - so he's only himself to blame, afaic.

    But what does Waters stand for exactly? From what I can see, he's a bitter, twisted individual who only suddenly became conservative in a knee jerk reaction to being badly treated in his personal life.

    Atheists are a broad church IMO, I have atheist friends who are bitterly anti catholic/muslim/orthodox Judaism, but most people just don't believe in anything and don't get bothered by others beliefs. I would consider myself part of the latter group.


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    #587
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    shoegirl wrote: »
    But what does Waters stand for exactly?..

    From what I can tell he's a contrarian who likes the sound of his own voice. Defending nonsense like Christianity and its ridiculous god gives him ample opportunity to fullfill those two needs.


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    #588
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    shoegirl wrote: »
    But what does Waters stand for exactly?
    Having read a few of his columns, I reckon that Waters just enjoys stirring it. Or trying to, since he's a poor writer.

    Christopher Hitchens is a far better contrarian, as was the great HL Mencken.


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    #589
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    robindch wrote: »
    Having read a few of his columns, I reckon that Waters just enjoys stirring it. Or trying to, since he's a poor writer.

    Christopher Hitchens is a far better contrarian, as was the great HL Mencken.

    Meyers seems to do this too but on looking at several of his articles found major contradictions between them, would never bother reading Waters or Meyers again.


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    #590
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Myers and Waters are columists rather than journalists now.

    By definition they will create some controversy to get readers and have strong personalities.

    Waters trades on his everyman issues and does not do sophisticated thinking and is readable - that said I would only read him occasionally. Myers too does controversy and his positions are usually right of centre. Both act as a counterbalance to feminist columnists and personalities. For example -sinead O Connor (Waters Ex and co-parent) was or is a patron of Womens Aid the Feminist Organisdation.He is active on mens issues and fathers rights. Denise Charlton of the Imigrant Council of Ireland (ex WomensAid) has a long running feud with Myers and called for his arrest.A delighted Myers did a column on it.

    Controversy sells newspapers.


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    #591
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    CDfm wrote: »
    Myers and Waters are columists rather than journalists now.

    By definition they will create some controversy to get readers and have strong personalities.

    Waters trades on his everyman issues and does not do sophisticated thinking and is readable - that said I would only read him occasionally. Myers too does controversy and his positions are usually right of centre. Both act as a counterbalance to feminist columnists and personalities. For example -sinead O Connor (Waters Ex and co-parent) was or is a patron of Womens Aid the Feminist Organisdation.He is active on mens issues and fathers rights. Denise Charlton of the Imigrant Council of Ireland (ex WomensAid) has a long running feud with Myers and called for his arrest.A delighted Myers did a column on it.

    Controversy sells newspapers.

    Now that is funny, and thank you for pointing out the difference between a columist and a journalist, it makes perfect sense. Some of the finest books i have read have been written by journalists, ahhh columists write songs do they?

    Couldn't help but be trite there:rolleyes:


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    #592
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    patrickthomas wrote: »

    Couldn't help but be trite there:rolleyes:

    I love the bit where Myers does the foreigner. Sweet.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/is-this-the-tolerance-that-our-thoughtpolice-take-pride-in-1438547.html
    Accepting criticism of one's own country, and from a foreigner like me, is not easy


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    #593
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    robindch wrote: »
    Having read a few of his columns, I reckon that Waters just enjoys stirring it. Or trying to, since he's a poor writer.

    Plus he has the look of a Preacher from a Western Movie

    Clint Eastwood was the Preacher in Pale Rider

    Coy LaHood: Do you imbibe?
    The Preacher: Only after nine in the morning.


    Classic that.


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    #594
    DapperGent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭DapperGent


    -- Mod snip to avoid the ban stick --


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    #595
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    CDfm wrote: »
    I love the bit where Myers does the foreigner. Sweet.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/is-this-the-tolerance-that-our-thoughtpolice-take-pride-in-1438547.html

    It is funny, kinda, not hilarious or anything like that....


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    #596
    patrickthomas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭patrickthomas


    CDfm wrote: »
    Plus he has the look of a Preacher from a Western Movie

    Clint Eastwood was the Preacher in Pale Rider



    Classic that.

    now that is funnier than Meyers, I so see that image:D


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    #597
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    patrickthomas wrote: »
    now that is funnier than Meyers, I so see that image:D

    :| slow day huh?


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    #598
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    Meyers is a sh!t kicker simply because he loves doing it, IMO. I don't read An Irishman's Diary since he moved to the Indo, it just hasn't been the same. Frank McNally is sooooo boring!


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