Massive plunge in tourist figures. licensing laws and €10 tourist tax did not help.

Run_to_da_hills

Although there is a global recession on I can also blame some recent short sighted moves by the current Government that did not help with these figures. O Leary may be right with his statement of tumble weed appearing on the runways of Shannon by next year after the recent introduction of the €10 travel tax. It may not seem not a lot to some, but it all adds up when you take into consideration some of the other rip off charges that this country has to offer.

Recent nanny state club licensing laws and the price of drink are also shooting the entertainment industry in the foot which also has an knock on effect on tourism. Word is getting out on how pathetic a night out on the town is in Ireland compared to other capital cities across Europe. How can someone come here to enjoy themselves when they get kicked out on to the streets by 2.30AM in most night clubs. (2.00AM in Ennis)


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0715/1224250692392.html

Joey the lips

I have saw no problem with the 10 euro tax and no I am not in govt or fav of the goverment. If your seriously trying to convince me that a year of planning a lovely hoilday in the good old emerald isle would go down the tubes because of an additional €10 tax well then i think all those along with michael o leary are daft,

Now that said, as regard the licenceing laws, this is a contentious issue. For example I would love to see all the pubs close at 12. But then I live on a street where countless drunks pass. But is that fair. No! I think pubs and clubs should be allowed stay open 24 hours if they wish. The crap and rubbish about extra policing could be offset with say an additional tax on drink past a certain hour to pay for extra police etc. Then again more tax! Thats your arguement!

I think if it were only ireland suffering a recession these factors such as increased pricing etc could be explored better but as the whole world is suffering I think it is to hard to judge.

P. Breathnach

I think the recession is a more significant factor than any travel tax or limits on drinking time.

kmick

If you had the choice to go to Ireland or Wales and Ireland was 10 euro dearer you would probably choose Wales. Why disadvantage yourself when times are bad you should be making yourself more attractive. The government did the same with VAT and we saw where that got us.

Run_to_da_hills

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think the recession is a more significant factor than any travel tax or limits on drinking time.

More the reason why tourists will penny pinch and try to get the best value of enjoyment on a holiday destination.

JMcCR

Joey the lips wrote: »

I have saw no problem with the 10 euro tax

That tourist tax of €10 really makes my blood boil. What about those of us who have had to leave the country to work...

I work in Holland during the week and fly home each weekend. Spend my earnings at home as much as possible and therefor bring money to the country, yet I get hit with this stupid tax on every flight which adds about €80 a month to my travel costs. :mad::mad::mad:

turgon

I cant see how people think this €10 tax is meaningless.

When I was booking my holidays last year I went to Frankfurt simply because it was the cheapest. If they had put a €10 tourist tax on my flight (each way) I wouldnt have gone and their net tax take would have gone down.

I wonder sometimes have government ever put any thought into their economic proposals. Are they stupid enough to universally think that higher tax rate = (proportionally) higher tax take?

silverharp

i'd say the recession is the biggest element. Dublin is a city break destination and one would have to assume that people will cut these out and stick to their annual hols.

the_syco

The 18-25 Irish population wouldn't be able to handle 24-hour pubs. Heck, most of them can't handle pubs that close at 3am

Saying that, changing the off-license closing time to 10pm, and changing other drink-related laws means that people will spend less, and have a sh|tter time in this country.

Riskymove

the travel tax must surely be a factor for weekend breaks, people who travel regularly on business etc

I cannot see how it would really impact on people who have planned to visit ireland for their main holiday

the main reasons would imo be the general recession and the high prices in this country

P. Breathnach

turgon wrote: »

... When I was booking my holidays last year I went to Frankfurt simply because it was the cheapest... I wonder sometimes have government ever put any thought into their economic proposals...

I wonder if people ever put any thought into their holiday proposals?

Yes, it is reasonable to seek out the best fares, but to choose a holiday destination on the basis of the cost of getting there seems an odd way to go about things. The cost of getting there is a relatively small component of the cost of a holiday, and how much you like a destination has very little connection with air fares -- if anything, the fares to more attractive destinations are higher because the airlines can fill the flights more easily.

is_that_so

Recession is far more likely. Spain had a 12% fall in numbers in the first 5 months of the year and they reckon numbers will be down as much as 10% this summer. I have no doubt other countries are experiencing the same problems. Much as I dislike the idea of that tax €10 is really nothing in the overall cost of a holiday.

turgon

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Yes, it is reasonable to seek out the best fares, but to choose a holiday destination on the basis of the cost of getting there seems an odd way to go about things.

Why so? All else being equal the air fare makes the difference. I went on that three day weekend for €200 including spending money (which included 2 nights on the town). And extra €20 would have been a %10 increase. Now I know Im a budget traveler so the tax off of me wouldt be huge, but it still makes a difference.

Add to the fact, of course, that Ireland is already ridiculously expensive as it is. The government whole policy seems to have made this country completely uncompetitive in terms of tourism and basic employment.

turgon

is_that_so wrote: »

Much as I dislike the idea of that tax €10 is really nothing in the overall cost of a holiday.

As the recession kicks in holidays will be getting shorter so the combined €20 will become a bigger part.

is_that_so

turgon wrote: »

As the recession kicks in holidays will be getting shorter so the combined €20 will become a bigger part.

For a budget traveller like yourself yes. I am planning trips later in the year and I am far more concerned about costs at the other end, accommodation, travel , spending money etc. than that €20. I think what is more likely to affect people is whether they think they can afford the overall holiday. A member of my family has decided against the annual foreign holiday this year not based on that tax but because his salary is down so much and he can't afford it.

topper75

You are spending hundreds on your holiday regardless of destination. Would you really change around your entire plan to visit Ireland because of a tenner? Doubtful that many tourists would ever think like that. I respect what O'Leary has achieved but you have to put a sieve over your ear when listening to such pronouncements.

Licensing? LOL

Any tourist I've observed in Ireland are out of the pubs before closing - so I dunno how they could be concerned about clubs closing early. This is more a prob for the natives I suspect. LOL.

The percentage drop off is disappointing but not surprising. Folk around USA and Europe/UK are feeling the pinch like us. Simple as.

Run_to_da_hills

€10 tourist tax on a family of two adults and two teenage kids is an additional €80 on the a price of a holiday here.

Mr. Presentable

Maybe I'm daft, but isn't the tax on departures from Ireland? And it's not €10.00 either, it's €2.00 or €10.00 depending on where you're going.

turgon

Both ways asfaik. €2 is only on domestic flights.

Mr. Presentable

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/budget-2009-10-travel-tax-on-flights-from-irish-airports-1498791.html


Air Travel Tax New charge for air journeys of over 300km

€10

Shorter Journeys (Exceptions will apply)

€2

Terrontress

It has to do with currency. So many UK travellers are staying away from Ireland, specifically Dublin, as their sterling will buy them so little. Even people from the North are not coming down so often.

A pint of beer in Manchester at 11pm costs £3. In Dublin the same pint will cost €5.50 - about £5. So if you are from London and organising a stag do, where will you go? Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle etc. or Dublin.

People in the Uk are looking for places to go that aren't in the Eurozone. Croatia, Morocco etc.

Ireland was expensive for people from the UK before their currency collapsed. Plus pubs hiking prices on rugby weekends left a bad taste in their mouths.

I don't think the flight tax will have had much of an impact.

astrofool

Shannon has always been a hairs breath away from going to tumbleweeds, the recession is just going to quicken the process.

turgon

Also, the fact that the government backtailed on this (€2 rule went from domestic flights to flights < 300km) proves this has an adverse effect.

Run_to_da_hills

turgon wrote: »

Also, the fact that the government backtailed on this (€2 rule went from domestic flights to flights < 300km) proves this has an adverse effect.

That move was only in the interests of saving Aer Arran as most of their UK flights are <300

djpbarry

kmick wrote: »

If you had the choice to go to Ireland or Wales and Ireland was 10 euro dearer you would probably choose Wales.

I think that’s a little over-simplistic. Most people come to Ireland because it's Ireland, not because it's cheaper than other destinations.

turgon wrote: »

Add to the fact, of course, that Ireland is already ridiculously expensive as it is.

Exactly – so an extra €10 is going to pretty negligible relative to the total cost of the holiday.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

€10 tourist tax on a family of two adults and two teenage kids is an additional €80 on the a price of a holiday here.

And what would be the total cost of a holiday for a family of four in Ireland?

snubbleste

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

€10 tourist tax on a family of two adults and two teenage kids is an additional €80 on the a price of a holiday here.

It's a departure tax, so it would be €40
and I disagree with the term tourist tax, it affects non-tourists.

Run_to_da_hills

snubbleste wrote: »

It's a departure tax, so it would be €40
and I disagree with the term tourist tax, it affects non-tourists.

O'Leary calls it a tourist tax.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=jul&story=gen-en-140709-2

Mr. Presentable

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

O'Leary calls it a tourist tax.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=jul&story=gen-en-140709-2

And bang goes any credibility you might have had.........

Joey the lips

JMcCR wrote: »

That tourist tax of €10 really makes my blood boil. What about those of us who have had to leave the country to work...

I work in Holland during the week and fly home each weekend. Spend my earnings at home as much as possible and therefor bring money to the country, yet I get hit with this stupid tax on every flight which adds about €80 a month to my travel costs. :mad::mad::mad:

Quite right your a reason its not working. That is fair enough I never thouht of that! But you are in the minority thats the reason you will be thought of as not mattering. Simularly business class travellers that fly ryanair travel last minute. The fact that they pay heafty through the nose already will not inconvience them with 10 euro more

However those of you saying that you would travel to x destination because its 10 euro cheaper well now thats just plain daft!

If that were the case you would never leave the country in the first place. You travel to the prefered destination for a combination of reasons

But having thought of it logically I wonder if the charge would be better used by taxing people leaving the country rather than coming in,

professore

A huge factor for people with families is that children (i.e. anyone under 18) are not allowed in pubs after 9 PM. If you have 2 kids 16 and 18 and you want to go to a trad session after 9 PM with them then you're out of luck.

Most Europeans would be used to bringing their teenage children along to the local pub or café and I don't see a problem with it. However here a pub means skulling 10 pints and a few vodkas and red bull so probably there is sense in the argument.

We are really becoming a nation of boring nanny state f**kers.

Dob74

The 10 euro doesnt help but the price of hotels hear is outragous.
Paid 100 euro for one night in Killarney in a 3 star, which I considered a dump. A room overlooking a carpark.
Paid 100 euro for three nights in Prague for a 4 star, which was top class.
We have priced ourselves out the market. If D4 can drop there prices so can most hotels in the country.

Run_to_da_hills

Dob74 wrote: »

The 10 euro doesnt help but the price of hotels hear is outragous.
Paid 100 euro for one night in Killarney in a 3 star, which I considered a dump. A room overlooking a carpark.
Paid 100 euro for three nights in Prague for a 4 star, which was top class.
We have priced ourselves out the market. If D4 can drop there prices so can most hotels in the country.

You haven't been in Dublin, Ennis or Limerick recently, seen some hotel B&B's for €60 or less, same were charging over €100 two years ago.

djpbarry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You haven't been in Dublin, Ennis or Limerick recently, seen some hotel B&B's for €60 or less, same were charging over €100 two years ago.

According to the CSO, hotel and restaurant prices in Ireland are relatively unchanged compared to 12 months ago (-0.03%).

Dob74

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You haven't been in Dublin, Ennis or Limerick recently, seen some hotel B&B's for €60 or less, same were charging over €100 two years ago.

They have seem to have got the message in Dublin, stayed in D4 hotel was only 40 euro a night. Was trying to book in Kerry it was still over 150 a night for a pretty ordinary hotel.
These hotels are not living in the real world. They are not competing with the next county. But with locations all over the global

Bottle_of_Smoke

I'd say its mainly to do with losing UK tourists due to the strong euro.

Though would also say, people book ryanair because of really low flight costs, the €10 tax each way can generally double that amount and it put them off ireland. No doubt.

nayorleck114

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

How can someone come here to enjoy themselves when they get kicked out on to the streets by 2.30AM in most night clubs. (2.00AM in Ennis)

Believe me this is not driving people away from Ireland!! its the high prices no the early closing of some nightclubs/

jimmycrackcorm

Can't see why Ryanair complain about the travel tax when they have their own travel taxes charges. also the tax is insignificant for the sizeable proportion of travellers who have to park at the airport.

slimjimmc

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I'd say its mainly to do with losing UK tourists due to the strong euro.

Though would also say, people book ryanair because of really low flight costs, the €10 tax each way can generally double that amount and it put them off ireland. No doubt.

It's not each way, it's a departure tax. Many other countries have it too which is why you end up paying their tax on the return trip.

As undesireable such a tax is, Ireland is not unique among European countries in raising air taxes, others include UK, Belgium, the Netherlands (source... like the title). For example the UK is steadily increasing taxes, applicable to both domestic and international routes, from the current £10 to £11 in Nov '09 and £12 in Nov '10 (source). So in reference to an earlier post re Ireland v Wales, you have to pay a higer tax to leave the UK. (£10=€11.76)

Run_to_da_hills

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Believe me this is not driving people away from Ireland!! its the high prices no the early closing of some nightclubs/

Its the bad value for such a short period of service. Most nightclubs do not kick off until at least 12.30, your out the door in less than two hours.

Bottle_of_Smoke

slimjimmc wrote: »

It's not each way, it's a departure tax. Many other countries have it too which is why you end up paying their tax on the return trip.

As undesireable such a tax is, Ireland is not unique among European countries in raising air taxes, others include UK, Belgium, the Netherlands (source... like the title). For example the UK is steadily increasing taxes, applicable to both domestic and international routes, from the current £10 to £11 in Nov '09 and £12 in Nov '10 (source). So in reference to an earlier post re Ireland v Wales, you have to pay a higer tax to leave the UK. (£10=€11.76)

That's a good point. I still don't think it provides a net benefit though. If we didn't have it there'd be a selfish advantage for Ireland over other destination countries. I know its tiny compared to overall holiday costs but really cheap ryanair deals often trigger a holiday idea and sway your decision. Even if it shouldn't!

Fulton Crown

Most posts about price,price price eh ?

What about service and an item nobody mentioned - value ?

Sadly the hospitality industry seems largly to have forgotten this aspect.

The rip off and get rich quick merchants are everywhere and will rip you off at every opportunity...like the pubs on Rugby weekends.

Witness those jarvey fellows down in Kerry who are on a nonsensical strike at the height of the so called tourist season.

Witness the taxi drivers who ripped us off for years until the Government grew some balls an sorted them out.

Go into most hotels an what do you get ? A Po faced foreigner at the desk with about as much personality as a sack o spuds .. no sense of "welcome" "thanks for your business" or anything.

Will you come again...do they care..nah buddy....of course not.

:mad: Ah well !

EastWallGirl

Dont blame the foreign employee at the front desk, blame the managemement that hired them without a care, same as any manager that hired people that didnot speak adequate english, it is not the employee' fault it is the fault of greedy management and owners.

I have lived here for 6 years and it has barely registered to friends and family back in Australia. I am thinking of moving to Italy and I am already innundated with people planning on visiting and I am not planning on living in an area that would be considered on the tourist trail.

I have travelled and I have never looked at the departure tax and I doubt many other peole do either.

Travellers are not that interested in pubs and clubs in my experience, unless they are backpackers or have planned a trip specifically for that.

The thing is the the accommodation, food and atmosphere are over rated and too expensive.

That being said those that have visited they have had a great time because I have a little itinerary that works and I know where to take them for lunch. They have not been that interested in pubs.

If my Irish husband will not go away for a weekend in Ireland (it is me that convinces him to go) then good luck with convincing the rest of the world.

topper75

Can anyone honestly really say when looking at the Ryanair site, or the site of any other airline, that they regard €0.01 as a cheap flight but cannot regard €10.01 as a cheap flight?

I mean is anyone going to have a look instead at an alternative destination on that basis? You want to see this island or you don't I feel. Some posters here need to study 'price elasticity of demand' in an economics book.

Joey the lips

topper75 wrote: »

Can anyone honestly really say when looking at the Ryanair site, or the site of any other airline, that they regard €0.01 as a cheap flight but cannot regard €10.01 as a cheap flight?

I mean is anyone going to have a look instead at an alternative destination on that basis? You want to see this island or you don't I feel. Some posters here need to study 'price elasticity of demand' in an economics book.

+1 would have plus 1000 if it were representitive of my feelings. Well said

Fulton Crown

[

QUOTE=EastWallGirl;61165869]Dont blame the foreign employee at the front desk, blame the managemement that hired them without a care, same as any manager that hired people that didnot speak adequate english, it is not the employee' fault it is the fault of greedy management and owners.

Wasn't blaming them...just stating the facts as it is..would agree that management are responsible for setting the behaviour standards.

But again my main gripe is that if you have a po faced anybody at the check in desk...they should be moved...rapido.

I have lived here for 6 years and it has barely registered to friends and family back in Australia

.

This would be different to most Irish peoples experience !!

The thing is the the accommodation, food and atmosphere are over rated and too expensive

.

Agreed ! But see previous post re Hotels in Killarney..they are not getting the message.

But a welcome and good service and a value your business attitude will go some way to redress this.

Terrontress

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Most posts about price,price price eh ?

What about service and an item nobody mentioned - value ?

Sadly the hospitality industry seems largly to have forgotten this aspect.

The rip off and get rich quick merchants are everywhere and will rip you off at every opportunity...like the pubs on Rugby weekends.

Witness those jarvey fellows down in Kerry who are on a nonsensical strike at the height of the so called tourist season.

Witness the taxi drivers who ripped us off for years until the Government grew some balls an sorted them out.

Go into most hotels an what do you get ? A Po faced foreigner at the desk with about as much personality as a sack o spuds .. no sense of "welcome" "thanks for your business" or anything.

Will you come again...do they care..nah buddy....of course not.

:mad: Ah well !

Good post. I went to Iceland before and stayed in Reykjavik. It wasn't cheap, between €5 and €8 for a pint, main courses €25, but it was great value. The food was so good, big portions, great staff, no tipping culture, every pub had English magazines, nowhere too busy.

I've been to Tokyo, Paris, Munich. All deemed to be expensive cities but the truth is that if you have lived in Dublin, nowhere is THAT expensive.

But there are varying levels of value in the cities I have mentioned and based on my experience I'd put Paris and Dublin at the bottom.

Fulton Crown

topper75 wrote: »

Can anyone honestly really say when looking at the Ryanair site, or the site of any other airline, that they regard €0.01 as a cheap flight but cannot regard €10.01 as a cheap flight?

I mean is anyone going to have a look instead at an alternative destination on that basis? You want to see this island or you don't I feel. Some posters here need to study 'price elasticity of demand' in an economics book.

Go the top ! Spot on pal !!

djpbarry

EastWallGirl wrote: »

Travellers are not that interested in pubs...

Tourists aren’t interested in Irish pubs? Are you kidding? There are any number of pubs in this country that cater almost exclusively for tourists.

People who come here are unlikely to ride a horse through the waves and won’t always be bothered to get a round of golf in. But they’ll all go to the pub. Every one of them will get out their Rough Guide and seek out some mid-week trad session, at which they’ll feel like they’re enjoying the real Irish experience, even when the only Irish there might be the musicians.

Or they’ll sit over their glass of Guinness for an hour, sipping it with suppressed nausea, but happy that they’ve ticked it off the list.

Every one of them will do that. Because that’s what people do when they come to Ireland. They go to the pub.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0627/1224249640019.html

Terrontress

And we're the most expensive in the EU for booze according to this

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0716/breaking37.htm

So it's no wonder they're staying away. I won't lament the loss of pubs when they go under.

RiverWilde

I'm not surprised that the number of tourists visiting has dropped. This little country is far too expensive for what we have to offer and when you add in poor service it becomes a joke.

I was born and raised here and I refuse to 'holiday' here. The cost is simply too high. I can take my family to Europe for a cheaper and better holiday than can be had for the same money here.

In these poor economic times where money is scarce people won't pay over the odds for anything. Well I know I won't.

Riv

topper75

Terrontress wrote: »

And we're the most expensive in the EU for booze according to this

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0716/breaking37.htm

So it's no wonder they're staying away. I won't lament the loss of pubs when they go under.

LOL! :pac::pac::pac:

Man: Fancy a holiday darling?
Wife: Sure - where should we go? There are oodles of destinations to choose from.
Man: I don't know, whereever the booze is cheap I suppose.
Wife: Why don't I go and acquire a comparitive table of booze prices across Europe and we can use that as the basis for our decision.
Man: Splendid.