David Icke - "Don't take the H1N1/Swine Flu vaccine"

cahill31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkL8KbEW6P4

Please keep all replies on topic. ie. don't post anything reptillian related. Thank you.

Ostrom

A non-medic reptilian bloodline conspiracy theorist? You want to gloss over the horsesh*t this man has come out with over the years?

Would people seriously take medical advice from David Icke?

Ostrom

King Mob wrote: »

Would people seriously take medical advice from David Icke?

You know they would, unfortunately

General Zod

Makes a change from him complaining about flouridated water or mindcontrol using dentist amalgam in fillings.

6th

Lads either discuss the topic/video or dont comment. From this point I will delete off topic posts and infract/ban the people that make them.

Watch the video or dont comment.

Ostrom

6th wrote: »

Lads either discuss the topic/video or dont comment. From this point I will delete off topic posts and infract/ban the people that make them.

Watch the video or dont comment.

I did watch the video, there was nothing approaching valid evidence in it; his intellectual history is worth mentioning for context. If someone makes as bold a statement as 'dont take the swine flu vaccine', you expect at the very least some sort of competence in the field, demonstration of reading/critique, or sound analysis. What else is there to comment on?

From the video:

'...pouring total s***e into a still-emerging immune system'.....

The man cites youtube as a 'source' for further research (5.25)

It is not a 'conspiracy theory', he has not demonstrated any systematic observation from which to infer underlying cause, nor the competence to express his assumptions on why this is so

Yep, watched the video.
The man obviously has no idea how the immune system or vaccines work.

He is spreading bad information.
No one with any sense should take his advice.

Martyr

so will you be taking the vaccine, King Mob?

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

so will you be taking the vaccine, King Mob?

I honestly don't know if I'll be arsed.
I don't bother with the yearly ones.

Why does it matter?
Does it make David Icke somehow less ignorant of the facts?

Martyr

i was just curious, if you get swine flu, would you take tamiflu? - i know you've answered that now.

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

i was just curious, if you get swine flu, would you take tamiflu? - i know you've answered that now.

No, I would go to a doctor and follow his advice and probably not listen to the anti science nonsense that's floating around out there about vaccines and tamiflu.

The exact anti science nonsense David Icke is spewing.

Martyr

well, ok then if the doctor says "take this King Mob, its tamiflu" will you take it then?

samson09

Martyr wrote: »

well, ok then if the doctor says "take this King Mob, its tamiflu" will you take it then?

:D:D

lol, as they say

samson09

Lads, get back on topic, need I say more? (Rhetorical by the way)

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

well, ok then if the doctor says "take this King Mob, its tamiflu" will you take it then?

Yes if he thinks it's the best course.

This is because I trust my doctor more the random nonsense on the internet.

Again why does it matter?

Does it make David Icke any less ill informed?

Martyr

i was just curious whether you would take it or not.
as you said, vaccines contain a small dose of the virus already.

constance tench

King Mob wrote: »

Yes if he thinks it's the best course.

This is because I trust my doctor more the random nonsense on the internet.

Again why does it matter?

Does it make David Icke any less ill informed?

of course, always trust the doctor, but bear in mind that golf trips are provided to them by the pharmaceutical industry..

constance tench

constance tench wrote: »

of course, always trust the doctor, but bear in mind that golf trips are provided to them by the pharmaceutical industry..

Ah so all doctors are in on it then?


Course there's no reason for David Icke to lie.
Not like he's playing to a market and selling books and dvds and lecture.
Does it out of the kindness of his heart.

constance tench

i'm not here promoting D.I, it's something people should be more aware of..

constance tench

constance tench wrote: »

i'm not here promoting D.I, it's something people should be more aware of..

That all doctors are out to get them?
That all doctors are bought by the evil corporations?

And how exactly do you know this?

Martyr

King Mob wrote:

Course there's no reason for David Icke to lie.
Not like he's playing to a market and selling books and dvds and lecture.
Does it out of the kindness of his heart.

The same could be said of pharmaceutical companies.
They're not exactly giving vaccines away for nothing, are they?
Not developing them out of the kindness of their hearts either...

its big business as usual.

meglome

constance tench wrote: »

i'm not here promoting D.I, it's something people should be more aware of..

Aware of what? Has David Icke any medical expertise? If Bozo the clown told us to be careful of vaccines should we be aware of it, is it important?

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

The same could be said of pharmaceutical companies.
They're not exactly giving vaccines away for nothing, are they?
Not developing them out of the kindness of their hearts either...

its big business as usual.

And David Icke is giving his books away?

The difference is actual doctors are backed up by verifable science.
David Icke is backed up by pure crazy.

Martyr

meglome wrote:

Aware of what?

Aware that not all doctors can be trusted and are indeed in the pockets of pharamceutical companies.

CT didn't at any point defend David Icke, just making a point that King Mob shouldn't just rely on the word of a doctor.

King Mob wrote:

And David Icke is giving his books away?

Pharmaceutical companies are giving vaccines away?

King Mob wrote:

The difference is actual doctors are backed up by verifable science.
David Icke is backed up by pure crazy.

I'm not disputing David Ickes is crazy, i'm saying that just because your doctor tells you to take a vaccine, doesn't necessarily mean its gonna be good for you.

That's all, point made.

constance tench

King Mob wrote: »

That all doctors are out to get them?
That all doctors are bought by the evil corporations?

And how exactly do you know this?

how do i know?..it's been reported on quite a number of times, do you want the links?

meglome wrote: »

Aware of what? Has David Icke any medical expertise? If Bozo the clown told us to be careful of vaccines should we be aware of it, is it important?

i think you misunderstood me, i was talking about the golfing trips provided to doctors by the pharmaceutical industry

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

Aware that not all doctors can be trusted and are indeed in the pockets of pharamceutical companies.

He didn't at any point defend David Icke, he's simply making a point that King Mob shouldn't just rely on the word of his doctor.

Pharmaceutical companies are giving vaccines away?

I'm not disputing David Ickes is crazy, i'm saying that just because your doctor tells you to take a vaccine, doesn't necessarily mean its gonna be good for you.

That's all, point made.

So we shouldn't trust our Doctors because someone makes a baseless claim. But we should believe random unscientific crap on the internet?

Martyr

King Mob wrote:

So we shouldn't trust our Doctors because someone makes a baseless claim.But we should believe random unscientific crap on the internet?

Nobody said anything like that.

Did you not watch the CBS 60 minutes video from 1976? i guess that is random unscientific crap too?

constance tench

constance tench wrote: »

how do i know?..it's been reported on quite a number of times, do you want the links?

I don't know are they for reputable sites with verifiable evidence?
Maybe you should start with the scientific evidence you have on which you're basing your assertion that vaccines are dangerous.

constance tench wrote: »

i think you misunderstood me, i was talking about the golfing trips provided to doctors by the pharmaceutical industry

So therefore all Doctors are in on it?

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

Nobody said anything like that.

Did you not watch the CBS 60 minutes video from 1976? i guess that is random unscientific crap too?

So then why shouldn't we trust doctors?

constance tench

King Mob wrote: »

So we shouldn't trust our Doctors because someone makes a baseless claim. But we should believe random unscientific crap on the internet?

it's not crap from the internet and
it's not a baseless claim, it has been reported on in a number of national news papers..

meglome

constance tench wrote: »

i think you misunderstood me, i was talking about the golfing trips provided to doctors by the pharmaceutical industry

I'm not saying this can't or doesn't happen. However doctors get to choose from approved medicines which have usually gone though lot's of testing and studying beforehand. But what I don't get is why we would listen to David Icke on medical matters or in fact on almost anything.

Martyr

King Mob wrote:

So then why shouldn't we trust doctors?

Did you watch the film?

I noticed you never commented on it.

I made it clear, as did CT that it's unreasonable to believe all doctors in the world have the best interests of people in their mind.

Asking for evidence? ha..its very well documented online and it should be no problem for you to simply search for the information.

But I doubt you're even the slightest bit interested when there is a link to CBS 60 minutes video on swine flu from 1976..evidence is not your priority here.

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

Did you watch the film?

I noticed you never commented on it.

I made it clear, as did CT that it's unreasonable to believe all doctors in the world have the best interests of people in their mind.

Asking for evidence? ha..its very well documented online and it should be no problem for you to simply search for the information.

But I doubt you're even the slightest bit interested when there is a link to CBS 60 minutes video on swine flu from 1976..evidence is not your priority here.

No I haven't had the time to watch the documentary.

But just so we're clear. Your mistrust in doctors is based on stuff you read on the internet?
Do you have any solid evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous?
Why do you believe it is?

constance tench

meglome wrote: »

I'm not saying this can't or doesn't happen. However doctors get to choose from approved medicines which have usually gone though lot's of testing and studying beforehand. But what I don't get is why we would listen to David Icke on medical matters or in fact on almost anything.

ritalin is an approved medicine for children with hyperactivity, and that's speed

maybe there is some truth in what he is saying,

just because a person does some foolish things their life, it does not mean they are a fool all their life.

forkassed

What if a doctor tells us not to take the vaccine

Martyr

King Mob wrote:

But just so we're clear. Your mistrust in doctors is based on stuff you read on the internet?

No, it's based on personal experience and those of friends or family and then information i've read online.

I'm not an idiot, I won't take the word of a doctor just because she/he is one.
I will of course take advice from a doctor, but i'll also research myself and learn about other peoples experience with drugs, treatments, find out if there is anything better, any alternative...i see nothing wrong in simply keeping an open mind.

Do you have any solid evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous?
Why do you believe it is?

There's nothin in my posts to suggest that swine flu vaccine is dangerous, I simply said to keep an open mind, that's all.

Nor did I at any time defend David Ickes comments, I simply made a point of keeping an open mind on the matter, don't dismiss claims that the swine flu vaccine may be more harm than good.

And the CBS 60 minutes video is a good example of where people were misinformed by authorities, I kindly suggest you make time to watch it.

meglome

constance tench wrote: »

ritalin is an approved medicine for children with hyperactivity, and that's speed

maybe there is some truth in what he is saying,

just because a person does some foolish things their life, it does not mean they are a fool all their life.

So can I assume if Bozo the Clown says be careful of vaccines you will?

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

No, it's based on personal experience and those of friends or family and then information i've read online.

I'm not an idiot, I won't take the word of a doctor just because she/he is one.
I will of course take advice from a doctor, but i'll also research myself and learn about other peoples experience with drugs, treatments, find out if there is anything better, any alternative...i see nothing wrong in simply keeping an open mind.

And that really depends on where online you're getting the information doesn't it?

Personally I like my information to be backed up by scientific evidence.

Martyr wrote: »

There is nowhere in my posts to suggest that swine flu vaccine is dangerous, I simply said to keep an open mind, that's all.

Nor did I at any time defend David Ickes comments, I simply made a point of keeping an open mind on the matter, don't dismiss claims that the swine flu vaccine may be more harm than good.

But you see there's no evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous.
It's a lot of people making stuff up and being dishonest (like naturalnews and David Icke.)

Martyr wrote: »

And the CBS 60 minutes video is a good example of where people were misinformed by authorities, I kindly suggest you make time to watch it.

I will when I get time.

Martyr

King Mob wrote:

And that really depends on where online you're getting the information doesn't it?

Personally I like my information to be backed up by scientific evidence.

I've got information from books, journals, articles online, and peoples own personal experience - i actually value personal experience more than "scientific evidence" because as I said, you can't just take the word of a pharmaceutical company or scientist.Their evidence could be fabricated...don't ask for "evidence" because I don't have time to dig out information for you and go off topic.

Respected scientists who have in the past been critical of big pharmaceutical companies have had their careers destroyed, if you had done any research on the subject, you'd know this already.

But you see there's no evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous.
It's a lot of people making stuff up and being dishonest (like naturalnews and David Icke.)

I will when I get time.

well, you would appear to have alot of time arguing with people on CT forum about producing evidence that CBS video is good evidence that you can't trust your government to look after you.

please watch it and tell us what you think.

constance tench

meglome wrote: »

So can I assume if Bozo the Clown says be careful of vaccines you will?

your assumption is wrong.

Ostrom

constance tench wrote: »

of course, always trust the doctor, but bear in mind that golf trips are provided to them by the pharmaceutical industry..

By the corporate 'fat cats' no doubt. I'm sure you're basing this on sound evidence too, right?

Will I take the vaccine? I would like to think that when the time comes to make that decision, I will have processed the opinions of respected medics, browsed any available articles (assuming anything makes it past peer review before august/september), had some time to browse opposing opinions from reputable medical, epidemological and immunological sources, and, with my limited knowledge of medicine, make up my own mind.

If one doctor told me not to take it, I would hope to be in a position to press him to develop his professional opinion further. If many more follow suit, then that is certainly cause for concern.

Phara is big business.....and....? What does that matter? They are hardly the only profit-driven interest with a stake in public welfare, why feel threatened by this? Its not a secret - accumulation allows private research, attracting the brightest minds with financial reward.

The most any of us can do is approach this with an informed baseline understanding as best we can, not buy into the kind of nonsense coming from non-professionals like Icke.

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

I've got information from books, journals, articles online, and peoples own personal experience - i actually value personal experience more than "scientific evidence" because as I said, you can't just take the word of a pharmaceutical company or scientist.Their evidence could be fabricated...don't ask for "evidence" because I don't have time to dig out information for you and go off topic.

And personal experience can't be fabricated or based on false information? You can't trust anyone on the internet.

However scientific evidence is peer reviewed and verifiable.
If any data is fabricated it can be pointed out.

Martyr wrote: »

Respected scientists who have in the past been critical of big pharmaceutical companies have had their careers destroyed, if you had done any research on the subject, you'd know this already.

Or you know they could have simply been putting out bad science and then claimed it was because Big Pharma are out to get them.

Why believe those scientists and not others?

meglome

constance tench wrote: »

your assumption is wrong.

And why is David Ickes opinion any better?

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

Would people seriously take medical advice from David Icke?

It's easy to discredit the views of somebody like David Icke.
He's hardly been towing the line in society over the last 20 or so years.
So it follows that somebody who is seen as a crank or a Looney is an easy target for ridicule and his views will also be easy to discredit.

I personally enjoy listening to people like Icke. I don't have to pay anything to do so. So I'm hardly contributing to his budding cottage industry.
My personal choice to listen to him does not mean that I take everything he says at face value.

That’s one of the beauties of the internet, that you can choose to look at or listen to whatever you like and share it with whomever you like.

One of the negatives of the internet is people like you on forums who like nothing better than to make yourself look clever by taking the perceived moral high ground against what is an incredibly soft target.
If you think David Icke is a nutter that's fine, you're not alone there.
The fact that you're not alone in your views doesn't excuse the fact that you have taken up the majority of this thread with childish swipes at those who take an interest in "nutters" like Icke and took the liberty of assuming that those people are all ignorant and follow everything that Icke says just because he says it.

Perhaps you should get down off your high horse and take a look at yourself you pompous arse.
We can all see you don't agree with what Icke has to say, there's no need to repeat it in increasingly cringe worthy attempted witticisms.
I can appreciate that you believe yourself to be incredibly clever with a rapier wit, but that doesn’t make you any less annoying, so perhaps you should allow the rest of us discuss the topic properly without recourse to the methods you have thus far employed.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

It's easy to discredit the views of somebody like David Icke.
He's hardly been towing the line in society over the last 20 or so years.
So it follows that somebody who is seen as a crank or a Looney is an easy target for ridicule and his views will also be easy to discredit.

I personally enjoy listening to people like Icke. I don't have to pay anything to do so. So I'm hardly contributing to his budding cottage industry.
My personal choice to listen to him does not mean that I take everything he says at face value.

That’s one of the beauties of the internet, that you can choose to look at or listen to whatever you like and share it with whomever you like.

One of the negatives of the internet is people like you on forums who like nothing better than to make yourself look clever by taking the perceived moral high ground against what is an incredibly soft target.
If you think David Icke is a nutter that's fine, you're not alone there.
The fact that you're not alone in your views doesn't excuse the fact that you have taken up the majority of this thread with childish swipes at those who take an interest in "nutters" like Icke and took the liberty of assuming that those people are all ignorant and follow everything that Icke says just because he says it.

Perhaps you should get down off your high horse and take a look at yourself you pompous arse.
We can all see you don't agree with what Icke has to say, there's no need to repeat it in increasingly cringe worthy attempted witticisms.
I can appreciate that you believe yourself to be incredibly clever with a rapier wit, but that doesn’t make you any less annoying, so perhaps you should allow the rest of us discuss the topic properly without recourse to the methods you have thus far employed.

I think I'll have to cry now. :,(

nullzero

King Mob wrote: »

I think I'll have to cry now. :,(

There's that rapier wit once again, you sure showed me.

Ostrom

nullzero wrote: »

taking the perceived moral high ground against what is an incredibly soft target.
If you think David Icke is a nutter that's fine, you're not alone there.
The fact that you're not alone in your views doesn't excuse the fact that you have taken up the majority of this thread with childish swipes at those who take an interest in "nutters" like Icke and took the liberty of assuming that those people are all ignorant and follow everything that Icke says just because he says it.

This is not a moral issue,people will take him seriously. As to your latter point, its fairly self-evident.

constance tench

meglome wrote: »

And why is David Ickes opinion any better?

your assuming again..

let's not have our heads in the sand, that's my point.

Ostrom

nullzero wrote: »

We can all see you don't agree with what Icke has to say, there's no need to repeat it in increasingly cringe worthy attempted witticisms.
I can appreciate that you believe yourself to be incredibly clever with a rapier wit, but that doesn’t make you any less annoying, so perhaps you should allow the rest of us discuss the topic properly without recourse to the methods you have thus far employed.

The methods are an unfortunate necessity. If someone would argue his poition rather than taking it to the poster, then we might have a debate.

nullzero

efla wrote: »

This is not a moral issue,people will take him seriously. As to your latter point, its fairly self-evident.

Some people will believe anything, a quick glance at society makes that fairly self evident.
What difference does it make to you or I what another individual chooses to believe?
What I take issue with it people such as yourself who seem to think that because someone else doesn't share your views they should be either not allowed to have them or be ridiculed for having them.
So that would make it a moral issue.

If somebody was to post here saying that aliens live in their attic and that they believe in fairies, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it.
In fact I'd take no interest and choose not to spend my time making that person look stupid.

Listening to the views of David Icke doesn't make you stupid, nor does it make you an idiot who blindly follows whatever David Icke says.
It is possible to take an interst in something and not be immediately sold on it and take it all to heart.