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200kms of road reclassified motorway except Athlone bypass

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    I wonder why the M6 was only redesignated as far West as the N18 junction and not the whole way into Doughiska? Seems a bit odd not having restrictions on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    glineli wrote: »
    Will the ennis by pass speed limit be changed at the end of august or do we have to wait until the gort and oranmore sections are finished?

    I thought it would be august but clare FM are saying it is not until after the completion of the other sections.

    I would imagine August. There's no reason to delay the introduction of the higher speed limit any later than August. The Oranmore section could be 3 or 4 years away anyhow so it would be a pretty big delay.

    Anyone know if any new signs have been erected on the Shannon-Crusheen section yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    KevR wrote: »
    I would imagine August. There's no reason to delay the introduction of the higher speed limit any later than August. The Oranmore section could be 3 or 4 years away anyhow so it would be a pretty big delay.

    Anyone know if any new signs have been erected on the Shannon-Crusheen section yet?

    I was on it tuesday evening, no new signs, just the poles for the new signs. i will be on it again later, will let you know if they appear


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭gerkeo


    Speed limit aside, what physically distinguishes a motorway from a dual-carriageway?
    I ask this because there is a very large portion on the M6 that has what amounts to a concrete wall between the two sides. I thought there had to be a more substantial central median on a motorway. This concrete wall design is prominent on the western corridor too.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted to be off the single carriageway crap but it can be a bit daunting driving at 70mph / 120kmph so close to a continuous chunk of concrete.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    gerkeo wrote: »
    Speed limit aside, what physically distinguishes a motorway from a dual-carriageway?

    There are few physical distinctions. "Motorway" is a legal term and nothing more. The only mandantory differences are blue signs, solid hard shoulder and emergency telephones.

    It's best not to think of DCs and motorways as two seperate entities. Rather think of them both as DCs where one has a set of restrictions and one doesn't (though technically speaking a motorway doesn't have to be a DC).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    glineli wrote: »
    Will the ennis by pass speed limit be changed at the end of august or do we have to wait until the gort and oranmore sections are finished?

    I thought it would be august but clare FM are saying it is not until after the completion of the other sections.

    Clare FM? The media dont have a clue when it comes to road infrastructure. It will be changed by August from Shannon-Ennis to motorway 120km/hr limits


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    darkman2 wrote: »
    New thread for Blunt Guy.

    All except N6 Athlone DC will be changed on August 28th. From then blue signs will be up and the usual Motorway rules apply i.e no L plates, tractors etc etc.

    Thanks for that mate! :)

    Just one question...

    ...where is the N11 Arklow to Rathnew on the list - the scheme (now approved) is for a national road - not motorway? On the contrary the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy and Enniscorthy Bypass Scheme will be submitted as a Motorway Order! :confused: Are the NRA not telling us something? :(

    There was also a mention of Type 2 Dual as opposed to a "full width Dual" on the latest PPP list! :(

    Let's hope the person doing the write-up doesn't know what a Standard Dual or Type 2 Dual is - I suspect he/she thinks that a Wide Dual is the Standard type (or Type 1), while the actual Standard (narrow median) Dual is Type 2.

    Let's Hope!!! :eek:

    Maybe the real delay to getting the N11 Arklow to Rathew reclassified is the anomaly relating to private accesses at the Southen end of the Rathnew Bypass. Also, there are LILOs at the Rugby Club north of Arklow. IMO, the N11 Arklow to Rathnew should be Wide Dual anyway - consistant with the two adjoining stretches of Dual - stretches which can be upgraded to D3.

    Logic??? :mad:

    Regards!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    tech2 wrote: »
    Clare FM? The media dont have a clue when it comes to road infrastructure. It will be changed by August from Shannon-Ennis to motorway 120km/hr limits

    Sweet, thats what i was hoping to hear. It would make no sense what so ever having to wait.

    Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    glineli wrote: »
    Sweet, thats what i was hoping to hear. It would make no sense what so ever having to wait.

    Cheers

    Would you let me know when some M18 signs go up as I wont be around to check until next week? Some other blue signs have gone up already on other routes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Why are sections of the N25, already at 120km/hr, not being reclassified whilst sections of the N2 & N20 are?

    Good question the main reason for the N20 to be redesignated was that the NRA have the rest of the M20 planned(Partickswell-Cork City) to be constructed in the pipeline. Therefore they want to protect the patrickswell-rossbrien section from developments which could cost them upgrading that section again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    tech2 wrote: »
    Would you let me know when some M18 signs go up as I wont be around to check until next week? Some other blue signs have gone up already on other routes

    Was on the N18 last night, no new signs. will keep an eye out over the weekend and once i see anything i will let you know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    The only mandantory differences are blue signs, solid hard shoulder and emergency telephones.

    Emergency Telephones? What are they? M6/M8 anyone?

    God bless mobiles is all ill say


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Emergency Telephones? What are they? M6/M8 anyone?

    God bless mobiles is all ill say

    I suppose the only advantage the emergency phones have now is that you have a direct line to the relevant services, with a mobile it's "who do you call?" and it ain't ghostbusters. :)

    Maybe there should be small signs along the hard shoulder with "useful numbers", every 500m or so.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Emergency Telephones? What are they? M6/M8 anyone?

    God bless mobiles is all ill say

    The NRA is at the early stages of procuring phones for all the redesignated stretches; I know someone who's company supplies something needed for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Also with the emergency phone they know where you are. Plus mobiles can have a flat battery, get lost/left at home, congested network or no signal, etc. etc.

    The emergency phones are fairly failsafe afaik.

    It's not like regular phonebooths - the advent of mobile phones does not make motorway emergency phones redundant (although it may make it easier for authorities to give it the chop if they can't be bothered paying for the maintanance).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    MYOB wrote: »
    The NRA is at the early stages of procuring phones for all the redesignated stretches; I know someone who's company supplies something needed for them.

    Any idea when this'll be done?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    No new signs at the Dublin end of the Clonee Bypass last I saw. It is a fairly short strech (less than 1.5km) already open which is being redesignated so don't know if they're waiting for the main M3?

    The only redesignated scheme the last time that got no new signs was the Nenagh Bypass, but that's a building site anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    icdg wrote: »
    No new signs at the Dublin end of the Clonee Bypass last I saw. It is a fairly short strech (less than 1.5km) already open which is being redesignated so don't know if they're waiting for the main M3?

    The only redesignated scheme the last time that got no new signs was the Nenagh Bypass, but that's a building site anyway.

    There were blue 3/2/1 markers on the Nenagh Bypass at the new Thurles Road junction before the bypass was redesignated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    KevR wrote: »
    Actually, how/when will OpenStreetMap be updated for the sections which are already open?

    I presume it won't happen until August 28th anyway.

    This will depend. The rule of thumb on OSM is "map what's on the ground". So, to take the example of the M2, it seems to have start/end restrictions signs up and all local road signs seem to refer to M2 instead of N2. I'm thinking of surveying the extent of signage completion, but if all the ground-based hints say M2 I'll probably change the map based on that, regardless of the actual legal status. The 120 limit is already in place, so it's a reasonable approach.

    OSM already has the under-construction sections referred to marked as motorways under construction since their redesignation was a sure thing. Any sections not already up-classified on OSM based on the "on-the-ground" rule by 28th August will then be retagged as motorway on that date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    The N18 from Shannon to Limerick (East of Bunratty anyway) is nowhere near motorway standard. The curves for a start make the Athlone bypass look like an Autobahn.

    The Athlone Bypass does look like an Autobahn. In many ways, it's more typical of a German Autobahn then most of our motorways.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    The Athlone Bypass does look like an Autobahn. In many ways, it's more typical of a German Autobahn then most of our motorways.

    One thing I remember about German autobahns is the very short slip-roads at junctions.

    You have to be prepared to slow down very quickly when coming off the autobahn and be prepared to speed up (and spot a gap in traffic) very quickly when joining.

    A quick calculation (not 100% accurate) shows that we'll have about 1135 kms (ca. 710 miles) of motorway and dual-carriageway as part of national primary routes when all current roads under construction are completed.

    The existing national primary route network is about 2,740 kms (ca. 1,700 miles) in total.

    By the end of 2010 about 41.5% of this network will be either motorway or dual-carriageway, with only a very small amount (about 15kms?) of 2+2 (Type 2 Dual-Carriageway in NRA jargon) as part of that percentage.

    Proposed projects not yet under construction will eventually add another couple of hundred kms to the network.

    Schemes like the M20, Gort-Tuam M18/M17, schemes on the N11/N25, the Mullingar-Longford HQDC/motorway and the Dublin Outer Orbital Route will bring that percentage up to over 50% when/if they're built.

    Not bad when you compare the network to how it was about 20 years ago.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mullingar-Longford will be 2+2 not HQDC I thought? Its partially online so can never be motorway either way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    MYOB wrote: »
    Mullingar-Longford will be 2+2 not HQDC I thought? Its partially online so can never be motorway either way.


    I thought it was going to be HQDC, could be wrong though.

    Some scans of Collins 2010 road map of Ireland (a small scale map):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35945888@N04/3754735749/sizes/l/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35945888@N04/3755507390/sizes/l/in/photostream/

    Lots of nice blue lines there, with more to come in the 2011 edition once it's updated to include redesignated sections of dual-carriageway and completed motorways.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I see Nenagh to Limerick has opened and a new town called JOHN F KENNEDY PARK has appeared south of New Ross :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    I see Nenagh to Limerick has opened and a new town called JOHN F KENNEDY PARK has appeared south of New Ross :D

    Showing the Limerick to Nenagh section of the M7 as already open is one of two big errors on the map, the other is not showing the Ennis - Gort section of the M18 as being under construction.

    At the time the map must have been printed, it would probably have been officially HQDC under construction.

    It also shows the Galway-Athlone section of the M6 as being dual-carriageway under construction rather than as motorway, although it may have gone to print before the official redesignation took effect.

    The JFK Park is correctly shown on the map: it's represented as a small green-shaded area to the south of New Ross.

    I' ve never seen Ballycroy National Park in Co. Mayo on a map before, didn't even know it existed until today!

    These are handy for comparing Ireland with Britain:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35945888@N04/3754869507/?rotated=1&cb=1248544308843

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35945888@N04/3754879465/sizes/l/


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    There was a sign on the N18 this morning for the M18, and it was Blue, woke me up :) In other words, the Ennis to Limerick road will be a motorway soon, I think they are waiting for the roadworks for the tunnel near the Radisson to be complete before completing the transisition


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭marinbike


    Zoney wrote: »
    I think you may be thinking of the old hurler's Cross junction (before the GSJ) and old Shannon junction.

    There is only one median gap as such remaining on the N18, at the Radisson hotel on the way into Limerick (the other U-turn on the way into Limerick replaced by a roundabout for Coonagh Cross Tesco). In any case that stretch of DC is a moot point due to the new N7 bypass ending at a point just outside the Radisson crossover (which I think is also to be Rbout once the bypass is done). It's entirely possible the N18 will be reclassified as R road from the N7 bypass junction into town.

    The N18 has *no* median crossings any longer between Radisson/new N7 junction, and the end of the DC north of Ennis.

    As such, median crossings is not a valid reason. The main valid reason for N18 not being motorway between N7 junction and at least Bunratty is that there are some private accesses (i.e. even some driveways) for all the fact that the median is unbroken. Another fairly major reason is the lack of straightforward alternative route to Bunratty from either Shannon or Limerick directions.

    The Shannon-Limerick Dual Carraigeway is 30 years old. It was officially opened in 1979. Thats why theres so many house entrances and cross-overs on it.

    A small problem with the new Dual Carraigeways is that the medians are too narrow. Fair enough there is a wall of concrete running along them but the old dual carraigeways had much wider medians.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Costs a lot more in land take though, and needs more maintenance than the concrete barriers.

    So concrete is best, as steel and wire barriers dont get maintained properly in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    marinbike wrote: »
    A small problem with the new Dual Carraigeways is that the medians are too narrow. Fair enough there is a wall of concrete running along them but the old dual carraigeways had much wider medians.

    Explain why you think this is a problem?

    Other than making widening the road easier?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭marinbike


    Explain why you think this is a problem?

    Other than making widening the road easier?

    Theres several reasons for it:

    Its easier to utilize a wide median dual carraigeway for future lane additions. The Naas Road is a good example. This DC was built a good few yrs ago but since it had a wide median, it allowed them to utilize it for the new lanes rather than dismantling bridges and realigning on-ramps.

    Wide Median Dual Carraigeways are better because at night time, you can put your full lights on without fear of blinding oncoming cars (The wide space allows for this). Also, it makes more sense to have wide roads since a lack of space is not a problem here in ireland. The wide median Dual Carraigeways should have a tar-macked median instead of the grass; this facilitates less maintenance.

    The wide median is more driver friendly.


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