Prestige saloon car wanted - ideas?

Henry Ford III

I know of someone in the market for a big(ish) saloon car with the following spec.

1/. Diesel
2/. Automatic
3/. Leather upholstery
4/. Mileage up to say 80,000 miles.

Budget of say €17500.

Merc. E Class and Volvo S80 seem to offer most value. 2005 or 2006 maybe. Reliabilty and comfort are essential. Reasonable running costs would help.

Doesn't seem to be much benfit in importing currently.

Any thoughts/advice?

smcgiff

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Budget of say €17500.

I'd say you'd be doing well to get an E class for that.

robtri

e-class is nice... a good safe bet...

but if it was me, I would be looking at a 7 series, the 730D...
you should eb able to get a nice 2005 model for that price.... and all the luxuries a barge like that affords

Stevie Dakota

For me it would have to be a BMW 520D or 525D, with a bit of hunting your pal will find one for that money. Maybe not as comfy as an E-class but so much nicer overall.

Drummerboy08

I think finding a car with that budget may be hard.

Here's a mint looking 05 Audi A6 - Diesel, leather, 05, 52,000kms, BUT its a 6 speed manual.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200928194531971

You may have to drop a year to find an auto within budget.

Something like this?
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200920192810435

Henry Ford III

smcgiff wrote: »

I'd say you'd be doing well to get an E class for that.

Au contraire. A few E270CDI's around for a little less.

Cars&cars

cheapest E-class on carzone in an 05 is €19995 for a decent one and the average price is about €22-24

you could import one, would cost about €13500-€14000 plus vrt!

Henry Ford III

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I think finding a car with that budget may be hard.

Here's a mint looking 05 Audi A6 - Diesel, leather, 05, 52,000kms, BUT its a 6 speed manual.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200928194531971

You may have to drop a year to find an auto within budget.

Something like this?
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200920192810435

Manual - no good.

That Jag is lovely, but is petrol engined. No dice.

no1beemerfan

robtri wrote: »

e-class is nice... a good safe bet...

but if it was me, I would be looking at a 7 series, the 730D...
you should eb able to get a nice 2005 model for that price.... and all the luxuries a barge like that affords

I agree! 2005 on 7 series is the one to have. It a bit different to the rest of the big cars out there too.

sneakyST

Henry - have a look in the UK. I just bought an E class 320cdi avantgarde (leather etc) tip tronic with 68k on the clock. Its a 01 mind but I paid 4k stg for it. There are new models for not much more. ( a few grand)

Zonda999

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=105932&cat=2

That ticks all the boxes and will be a lot more exclusive than an E-class or a 5 series. A small bit over budget and 1300€ road tax but what a car and what an engine!

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Budget of say €17500.

I'd consider spending only half of that budget and buy an S80. A lot of car for the money, very comfortable and pretty reliable too.

For the full budget, I'll add my vote to the 730d. In that price class it's better value than most imho as it has already suffered horrendous depreciation.

In either case, don't expect it to be easy to sell it on later...

Henry Ford III

Zonda999 wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=105932&cat=2

That ticks all the boxes and will be a lot more exclusive than an E-class or a 5 series. A small bit over budget and 1300€ road tax but what a car and what an engine!

Nice ok, but 28mpg kills it.

Road tax is not an issue

Henry Ford III

unkel wrote: »

I'd consider spending only half of that budget and buy an S80. A lot of car for the money, very comfortable and pretty reliable too.

For the full budget, I'll add my vote to the 730d. In that price class it's better value than most imho as it has already suffered horrendous depreciation.

In either case, don't expect it to be easy to sell it on later...

Resale value doesn't matter in this case.

Stevie Dakota

Zonda999 wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=105932&cat=2

That ticks all the boxes and will be a lot more exclusive than an E-class or a 5 series. A small bit over budget and 1300€ road tax but what a car and what an engine!

Nice car, but it looks like it is haunted by George Hook, scary!

unkel

Zonda999 wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=105932&cat=2

That ticks all the boxes and will be a lot more exclusive than an E-class or a 5 series. A small bit over budget and 1300€ road tax but what a car and what an engine!

Actually I agree

If he can (and is willing to) up the budget a little bit. The Phaeton is a superb car, another full step up in comfort, size and exclusivity from the likes of a 7-series or an S-class.

GTE

unkel wrote: »

Actually I agree

If he can (and is willing to) up the budget a little bit. The Phaeton is a superb car, another full step up in comfort, size and exclusivity from the likes of a 7-series or an S-class.

And you get George Hook in the centre console. Its a 21st century Knight Rider.

Henry Ford III

unkel wrote: »

Actually I agree

If he can (and is willing to) up the budget a little bit. The Phaeton is a superb car, another full step up in comfort, size and exclusivity from the likes of a 7-series or an S-class.

28mpg from a diesel (albeit high performance in this case) makes it wholly undesirable unfortunately.

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Nice ok, but 28mpg kills it.

Road tax is not an issue

What annual mileage is he doing? If it isn't huge, the difference between the car doing 28mpg or 35mpg isn't all that much compared to say depreciation, servicing or even tax. At 25k miles per year the difference is only €800...

Zonda999

unkel wrote: »

What annual mileage is he doing? If it isn't huge, the difference between the car doing 28mpg or 35mpg .

Which is probably near what a 730d would do in the real world

Henry Ford III

Big mileage. Road tax doesn't matter. Nor does residual value. It'll be a limo. His current E220CDI regularly returns mid 40's mpg on a run.

I can't see any 7 series diesel with under 80k miles this side of €20,000.

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Big mileage.

How big?

Henry Ford III

unkel wrote: »

How big?

40k p.a.

Henry Ford III

Interesting, but not very prestigious

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

40k p.a.

Right. That makes the difference between the 28MPG and 35MPG a bit over €1200 per year. Really not that much in the scheme of things.

I'm taking your figure of 28MPG (looks realistic to me) for the Phaeton. And what Zonda999 said. A 730d or S320CDI would probably do about 35MPG, an S80 the same. An E-class or a 5-series would probably be do about 40MPG, but they could hardly be classed as a limo surely?

Gary ITR

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Big mileage. Road tax doesn't matter. Nor does residual value. It'll be a limo. His current E220CDI regularly returns mid 40's mpg on a run.

I can't see any 7 series diesel with under 80k miles this side of €20,000.

I know you've said no and no but I'd much prefer to be limo'd around in a Phaeton than anything else in that price range

Henry Ford III

A nice E class could ok. E270CDI looks promising.

Estate body probably scuppers this. Pity.

Henry Ford III

Onkle wrote: »

I know you've said no and no but I'd much prefer to be limo'd around in a Phaeton than anything else in that price range

Me too, but that's not the point.

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Me too, but that's not the point.

Is it not? If I were booking a limo and an E-class was €150 and a Phaeton was €300, I'd book the Phaeton. The Phaeton will be good for business.

GTE

I like the E class but they arent as solid as they were. (the newer shape, circa 04)
They feel and sound a little cheaper then the old barge style body (circa 99).

I was in my dads when it was raining, the rain seems louder in that car then most. The windows seem to be thinner or made in such a way that it its an almost impossible to talk. There is a loud "clap clap clap clap" when there is heavy rain. Also quite noticable from the back door windows.

The doors dont have that German solid thud that you would normally associate with the older style E class.
The back seats arent the most comfortable in the world especially compared to the older body.
The boot is huge thanks to a repositioned fuel tank. Thats a very good point.
The engine is tractor like, but I like the sound of it and it moves when you want it to!

Its a great car but I cant help feeling that there are more solid alternatives for the price.

My family has had both the older body E class (E280 petrol) from 1999 to present and a 2004 E class (E270CDI) since about 2006 or 2007 to present.

All these observations are from being a passenger regularly in both of them.

Great cars none the less. The E280 petrol engine is just amazing!

Henry Ford III

unkel wrote: »

Is it not? If I were booking a limo and an E-class was €150 and a Phaeton was €300, I'd book the Phaeton. The Phaeton will be good for business.

Yes, but you are appreciative of a higher quality motor. Most punters aren't unfortunately. VW badge counts against it at that level maybe?

Few would grumble at being picked up in an E Class such as this I reckon.

Cuddlesworth

unkel wrote: »

Is it not? If I were booking a limo and an E-class was €150 and a Phaeton was €300, I'd book the Phaeton. The Phaeton will be good for business.

Because you know cars. At the end of the day people are going to ask who makes it and hes going to have to answer VW.

Zonda999

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes, but you are appreciative of a higher quality motor. Most punters aren't unfortunately. VW badge counts against it at that level maybe?
.

Almost certainly, they'd prob think it was a passat! However in reality, that car would be nicer to be carried around in than an A8 of a similar age!

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

Right. That makes the difference between the 28MPG and 35MPG a bit over €1200 per year. Really not that much in the scheme of things.

I'm taking your figure of 28MPG (looks realistic to me) for the Phaeton. And what Zonda999 said. A 730d or S320CDI would probably do about 35MPG, an S80 the same. An E-class or a 5-series would probably be do about 40MPG, but they could hardly be classed as a limo surely?

Thanks for the attempt guys!

HFIII, its it makes any odds my GF has been driving it to Cherrywood from Trim area recently (Backroads, National Roads then 45km motorway). Around 75km and she is getting 8.7 L/100KM (32.5mpg). Combine that with the fact the Phaeton has a 90L fuel tank vs (IRC) the E-Class's 80L's (at 40mpg) and the two vehicle's range on a full tank difference is only 100km'ish! I think some credit in the calculations has to be given to the fact the Phaeton is 2.6tons and a class size bigger than an EClass too.

Ive had a Chauffeur looking at it, he had no concern with the fuel economy once he questioned and was happy with the 750-950km tank range (depending on driving). I would assume a big concern of theirs is constantly having to fill up.
I too would be dubious of the claim either a 5 series or E-Class could straight faced be called a Limo. Taxi yeah, limo no.

unkel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes, but you are appreciative of a higher quality motor. Most punters aren't unfortunately. VW badge counts against it at that level maybe?

Few would grumble at being picked up in an E Class such as this I reckon.

Yeah, you guys have got a point there. The badge is a bit of an issue.

Still, even in these post celtic tiger times, E-class and 5-series are still very common. Too common imho to be called a limo (although the one in your link does look sweet) . An entry level E-class used to be expensive (similar price as an entry level house) but these days is only a bit more than an econobox.

And there's the "place of work". If your man is going to do 40k miles per year, how much is the extra comfort of an S-class / 7 series, or especially the Phaeton, worth to him? Surely more than €1200?

pcardin

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I know of someone in the market for a big(ish) saloon car with the following spec.

1/. Diesel
2/. Automatic
3/. Leather upholstery
4/. Mileage up to say 80,000 miles.

Budget of say €17500.

Merc. E Class and Volvo S80 seem to offer most value. 2005 or 2006 maybe. Reliabilty and comfort are essential. Reasonable running costs would help.

Doesn't seem to be much benfit in importing currently.

Any thoughts/advice?

Sorry OP but for that budget you can't get anything prestige (unless something older than 10 years). None of the cars mentioned can be classified as prestige (except 7series Bmw only). Volvo is not prestige nore the Audi. Go for black e38 bmw 730.

bazz26

Merc S Class CDi:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200908191913299

nialler

Ignore the metallic purple in that ad, it's amberline black and more of a very deep burgundy. Stunning car to drive and sit in, one thing though I have one of these (not CDI) I have the S320 petrol, recently got 38mpg on the way back from the north (very surprised at that), normally 33mpg with a light right foot (still doing 120kph).

Unfortunately the S320 CDI still to me sounds like a tractor but fantastic torque at higher speeds have driven an 06 730D stunning stunning car but felt incredibly light at high speed (150kph+).

The Phaeton is a beautiful car but at the end of the day it's a VW even though it uses the same floor pan and engine as the Continental GT. The only prestige cars in reality are your S-Class and more prevalent these days as limos are the 7 Series or less common the A8 4.2.

Oh and forgot to say that's about 2,000 euro over the asking price for a car of that year on the S-Class. I've got a 00 LWB Petrol and it's only worth about 9k.

Henry Ford III

Should have explained this better earlier. I meant Limo as in Limo hire. Doesn't need to be any bigger than an E class tbh.

That S class is mighty impressive but 02 is a little old for the use it'll get.

BMW either 5 or 7 series strike me more as a sportier drivers cars than a luxury hack whose best ability was to carry passengers. No 7 series I can see fit the bill either.

S80 might be a dark horse though. Big, comfortable, and opulent enough.

BrianD3

Vel Satis 2.2 DCi. Autos are rare here however. Huge inside, only seats 4 but in big leather armchairs.

607

S80

Opel Signum? Don't know much about them but apprently has massive rear legroom.

Also, if the Skoda Superb comes in a version with leather and a better engine than the 1.9 TDi...

edit: maybe you'd get a Chrysler 300C for the budget. Most are 3.0 diesels with auto and leather.

Henry Ford III

BrianD3 wrote: »

Vel Satis 2.2 DCi. Autos are rare here however. Huge inside, only seats 4 but in big leather armchairs.

607

S80

Opel Signum? Don't know much about them but apprently has massive rear legroom.

Also, if the Skoda Superb comes in a version with leather and a better engine than the 1.9 TDi...

S80 (maybe) aside they neither classy nor reliable enough Brian. Able cars all no doubt btw.

mickdw

E Class doesnt cut it really. As said, you need to be looking at the top level cars such as S Class, 7 Series, A8, Jag XJ,Lexus Ls & I would put pheaton there too.
I wouldnt be surprised to get into an 05 E Class as an ordinary taxi. If paying any more than that, I would expect a very new car of the above standard.

With a budget of 17k, I would go for an old model S Class and would hopefully get newer than 02 too

Henry Ford III

E class is what he uses now for this job. It's quite acceptable

BrianD3

Who here has experience of running a 5-7 year old barge like an S, 7 or XJ for 40k miles per year. IMO there is a strong possibility of eye watering bills. These cars suffer huge depreciation for a reason and most people would think hard about buying one even to do average mileage in it.

Matt Simis

BrianD3 wrote: »

Who here has experience of running a 5-7 year old barge like an S, 7 or XJ for 40k miles per year. IMO there is a strong possibility of eye watering bills. These cars suffer huge depreciation for a reason and most people would think hard about buying one even to do average mileage in it.

And are you speaking from experience?
Those cars with big fat engines are designed for high mileage motorway crunching. The fact they are the automatic choices for Limo work is a testament to this. As other posters pointed out, if I was doing 40k miles a year I would want a fantastic auto to be sitting in, not merely something acceptable with decent MPG and a badge.

BrianD3

Matt Simis wrote: »

And are you speaking from experience?
Those cars with big fat engines are designed for high mileage motorway crunching. The fact they are the automatic choices for Limo work is a testament to this.

Tell us how much you were quoted for a brake pad change for the Phaeton again.

Maybe ask unkel about the suspension work on his E38 or the catalytic converters that were replaced by the previous owner.

The point is that these cars suffer wear and tear from 100-200k (or before that) just like any other car. Except it's more expensive. The original poster has said that an E class is sufficient for his needs yet poster keep saying that this isn't the case, that he needs something better. Now I'm sure an S class comes into its own at 155 mph on the autobahn but on Irish roads a 7 year old example is more potential expense for diminishing returns.

No I have not run a luxobarge for 40k miles per year. I do drive that mileage in something much more mundane. And a close (rich) relative ran 7 series and XJs for years, they were bought new.

unkel

BrianD3 wrote: »

Maybe ask unkel about the suspension work on his E38

I spent just over €1000 for a complete suspension overhaul using genuine BMW parts only at 137k miles when the car was 11 years old. It is the only serious bill I've had in nearly a decade of driving old big engined high end cars. This overhaul wouldn't have cost much less on an E-class Mercedes or even a Toyota Corolla for that matter...

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

I spent just over €1000 for a complete suspension overhaul using genuine BMW parts only at 137k miles when the car was 11 years old. It is the only serious bill I've had in nearly a decade of driving old big engined high end cars. This overhaul wouldn't have cost much less on an E-class Mercedes or even a Toyota Corolla for that matter...

You don't do huge milage though?

I know a guy who had to give up trying to keep his S class on the road after a litany of vicious expensive repairs. I really don't see any evidence that luxobarges are any better engineered than their proletarian cousins.

The Phaeton is kind of cool though.

Matt Simis

BrianD3 wrote: »

Tell us how much you were quoted for a brake pad change for the Phaeton again.

Maybe ask unkel about the suspension work on his E38 or the catalytic converters that were replaced by the previous owner.

Well you remember things, Ill give you that!
Park Motors, probably the most expensive VW garage, quoted EUR1400 inc VAT, Parts and Labour for new Brake Pads all round. Perhaps they would have gone and re-evaluated that price if I contested it but as I said in the original thread I did them for EUR300ish. They quoted that there and then, I really dont have the background on why they quoted so high and they admitted that seemed very high. Any garage could have fitted the pads as I did, the Brembo 8pot brakes aren't unique to the car. Im assuming those were the original pads too, so thats a fairly minimal expense looking at Total Cost of Ownership.

However, they only charged EUR900 inc VAT for:
The "big" 50k Service (all usual bits serviced, no timing belt V10TDI's)
+ New Rear middle LED brake light (which was actually 2hrs labour min)
+ New Fuel Filter

Comparatively a fairly boring (mechanically) New Beetle 2.0l cost EUR600 for its 50k service minus any parts being changed at all. So servicing a Phaeton is maybe around 33% more expensive than a Beetle (or a Golf etc). Thats pretty excellent and nulls any talk of it "eye watering service costs", on this model.

Again, I know I sound like I'm pimping my own car, but its a fact that Merc servicing is more expensive and reliability is regularly called into question these days (only basing that on Consumer Reports, forums etc, not personal experience). I wouldnt be at all surprised if an EClass cost more to service than the Phaeton.
I would assume the 7Series sits between the Phaeton/A8 and S-Class service cost wise.

maidhc wrote: »

I know a guy who had to give up trying to keep his S class on the road after a litany of vicious expensive repairs. I really don't see any evidence that luxobarges are any better engineered than their proletarian cousins.
The Phaeton is kind of cool though.

Looking at VW Vortex, a lot of the [American] Phaeton owners had/have S-Class, A8s and the like. They are generally impressed with the reliability and costs (VW is more of a premium import brand there with prices and service to match). Regarding "better engineered"..meaning more reliable or better made or better technology? Reliability is the question, but better technology, materials, finish and assembly are used in all the premium cars mentioned.

Also, Phaetons are hand built, if that floats your boat.

alias no.9

If it were me, the Phaeton would be a no brainer. It was a vanity project for Ferdinand Piech which meant that it had a technical design brief rather than an accounting / marketing one. It was meant to demonstrate what was possible, not what could be done at a pricepoint.

Henry Ford III