The All Ireland Heads Up Poker Championship. Coming 2010 (Announcement)

winstons pt

OK everyone, here it is, the big one. I have being planning this for over a year now, structure's, buyin's, securing the name, and everything else that go's into running a game of poker, but this is going to be huge and it took a lot more organizing, there is still a lot more planning to do, but some how i got a leak, and i was getting phone calls from all over the country, so i had to work a bit faster in the last 6 weeks (plus i got married in the middle of it all) so here is just a taste of whats to come, this is just an announcement and i will hopefully have an official thread by the end of the year

The All Ireland Heads Up Poker Championship 2010

This is how the All Ireland Heads Up Poker Championship (AIHUPC) will play out, starting from the bottom.


Lets go to Connacht in the west, Here we have the County's of Galway, Leitrim, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo, now lets narrow it down to Galway. We have card clubs, casinos, pub poker organizers even home games running AIHUPC qualifier's, the buyin to these games can be up to them, but they must reach a buy in of €500 + €50 reg for the AIHUPC County Final (CF). (Please note: there will be ONLY 32 seats per County for the CF) Now that we have 32 players competing for the Galway County Championship, this gives us a prize pool of €16,000, €5,000 + €500 reg is held back for the County Champion's buyin for the AIHUPC Final and the other €10,500 is given out as prize money at the Galway CF + Trophy. The winner (now the Galway Heads Up Poker Champion) will be playing for his County in the AIHUPC Final. This will happen in all 32 County's, giving a grand total prize pool of €160,000 and the winner will be crowned The (FIRST) All Ireland Heads Up Poker Champion with the AIHUPC Cup. Players will play in the AIHUPC final in there county jerseys (which can have sponsorship logos), this will give them a sense of pride as they know they are playing for there County.
You don't have to qualify for the CF, anyone can buyin direct, but please note: ONLY CF Champions will be playing in the AIHUPC Final.
The structure, buyin's, heads up rules terms and conditions etc,etc will be the same for every County

Example

32 Players for the:
Westmeath County Final held in ??????.
Prize pool = €16,000
- AIHUPC buy in (€5,000 + €500 reg)
= €10,500 prize money.
Pay out
1st €3,990 @ 38% + Trophy
2nd €2,520 @ 24%
3rd €1,575 @ 15%
4th €1,050 @ 10%
5th €840 @ 8%
6th €525 @ 5%

The winner now plays in the IHUPC final.

AIHUPC Final
(Held in ??? (still in talks))
Buy in €5,000 + €500 x 32 County's
Prize Pool €160,000
1st €60,500 @ 38 % + Trophy
2nd €38,400 @ 24 %
3rd €24,000 @ 15%
4th €16,000 @ 10%
5th €12,500 @ 8%
6th €8,000 @ 5%

Players start each match with 20,000

Level 1. 100 – 200, 30 min
Level 2. 150 – 300, 30 min
Level 3. 200 – 400, 30 min
Level 4. 300 – 600, 30 min
Level 5. 400 – 800, 30 min
Level 6. 500 – 1000, 30 min

Blinds freeze at level 6

If the Westmeath CF champion wins the AIHUPC final, this will give him/her an overall winnings of, €64,490 + 2 Trophy's, the “AIHUPC Cup” handed back at the end of the year. The County Final Cups and the “AIHUPC Cup” are being designed at the moment and should have pictures shortly.

The following is list of all 32 County's, as i said i had a leak and most County's now have official County Final Organizers, i will have contact details for every CF organizer in the official thread and anyone making enquirers about there County should contact them.
The one's that are confirmed are official, and the one's that are not confirmed i just filled in myself, but i would advise any organizer/s to contact me ASAP if the wish to choose a CF


1.Antrim
2.Armagh ---confirmed---Hibernian Poker
3.Carlow ----confirmed---Atlantis Casino
4.Cavan ----confirmed---Hibernian Poker
5.Clare

---

The Kings
6.Cork

---

The Rebel Card Club
7.Derry
8.Donegal
9.Down
10.Dublin

---

confirmed

---

IPPT
11.Fermanagh-confirmed-HibernianPoker
12.Galway

---

confirmed-- Fintan Gavin
13.Kerry

---

Cue Club Events
14.Kildare

---

confirmed----Wad Events
15.Kilkenny

---

Flush Casino
16.Laois ---confirmed----Winstons Poker
17.Leitrim

---

confirmed

---

4 of a Kind
18.Limerick

---

Fitzpatricks Casino
19.Longford --confirmed--Hibernian Poker
20.Louth

---

confirmed

---

BantizPoker
21.Mayo ---confirmed---Mayo Poker Tour
22.Meath

---

JJP Poker Club
23.Monaghan ---confirmed----BantizPoker
24.Offaly ----confirmed---Winstons Poker
25.Roscommon ---confirmed---4 of a Kind
26.Sligo

---

The Adelaide Casino
27.Tipperary--confirmed--SkylineCardClub
28.Tyrone
29.Waterford--confirmed--OlympusCasino
30.Westmeath ----confirmed

---

JC.Poker
31.Wexford
32.Wicklow ----confirmed----Wad Events

The plan is for all the County Finals to play and finish in August 2010 and the AIHUPC Final to be held in September 2010. I am also just finishing off a temperey web site and should have a link for this shortly.

Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker 087-6270165 winstonspt@eircom.net

adamski8

sounds cool. just wondering what would be stopping say a person who is from cork playing and winning the dublin CF? would he then have to wear a dublin jersey in the all-ireland final??:p

winstons pt

adamski8 wrote: »

sounds cool. just wondering what would be stopping say a person who is from cork playing and winning the dublin CF? would he then have to wear a dublin jersey in the all-ireland final??:p

I am afraid so, players can play in as many County Finals as the wish, BUT they can only win 1 CF and they will have play in the AIHUPC final in that County jersey.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

ALTEK

Ok fill me in on these ?

If i win the regional which i buy in for €500+ €50 Reg i have to pay reg then and then i have to pay €5000+ €500 Reg to play the final ? Thats a double reg

I mean its only a heads ip game €500 reg is fair steep for the final?

Also if i win the regional what money do i win ? Do i get a €5000 Ticket to the final and Cash from the money remaining meaning nearly 50% of the prizepool will have to go to first place .

Also what happens if the county does not reach the requirment and get the runners or the player decides they want the cash instead of a seat .

The Final will be 32 players x €5000 + €500 Reg :eek: It hardly costs €16,000 for a heads up Game in fairness the Ept is less Expensive .

wad events

Looks great Paddy. Looking forward to helping out with the Kildare and Wicklow games.

Duff Man Jr.

Sounds like a class idea but in a years time it might be hard to get 32 players from each county to put up €500. With players playing mulitable county finals this would help. Also many finals will have to be on the same date unless you want them going on for eight months.

Events might have to be 2day because 8 games will take a long time to finish,
A 50/100 level would make a huge difference and for the grand final i'd think about lenthning the structure and maybe best out of 3 games.

You should pay 8 players with [8th 7th 6th 5th] & [4th 3rd] getting the same, otherwise two extra unesscary matches for some.

DonkeyPokerTour

winstons pt wrote: »

Example

32 Players for the:
Westmeath County Final held in ??????.
Prize pool = €16,000
- AIHUPC buy in (€5,000 + €500 reg)
= €10,500 prize money.
Pay out
1st €3,990 @ 38% + Trophy
2nd €2,520 @ 24%
3rd €1,575 @ 15%
4th €1,050 @ 10%
5th €840 @ 8%
6th €525 @ 5%

The winner now plays in the IHUPC final.

AIHUPC Final
(Held in ??? (still in talks))
Buy in €5,000 + €500 x 32 County's
Prize Pool €160,000
1st €60,500 @ 38 % + Trophy
2nd €38,400 @ 24 %
3rd €24,000 @ 15%
4th €16,000 @ 10%
5th €12,500 @ 8%
6th €8,000 @ 5%

To me this payout structure makes very little sense, Either Pay 8 (all the quater finalists) or pay 4 (all the semifinalists). How do you decide who finishes 5th or 6th?

Other than that looks good, I doubt I'll be able to find 550euro to play myself (damn recession) but best of luck with it!

corkie123

the aussie millons was a 5k entry and it had a 300 reg only . i think your bit high here and about 2 years to late to get 32 players each county to play 500 each for hu tourie but u never know do u :rolleyes:

also u should pay 8 players 50k 1st 30k 2nd 20k 3rd 4th 10k 5th to 8th might be better for u if u got this going

tipp86

Im speaking here for certain counties it will work for certain with some places like dublin/cork.

With regards Tipperary there isnt a hope imo that you will get 10 players to stump up 550 to get the one ticket out. You could work at getting lads to stump up 50 for a satt to get 550 ticket but again i find lads in small clubs wont want the ticket they will want the money.

I really like the idea as i hate been negative but just dont see it working on that scale.

THE ANIMAL

LOOKS GOOD PADDY GREAT IDEA HOPE I CAN GET A FEW SQUIDS TOGETHER FOR IT. WILL YOU BE ABLE TO RUN A FEW SATTELITES FOR TICKETS FOR THE COUNTY STAGES? BEST OF LUCK WITH IT ANYWAY BUD.:D

CONGRATS ON THE WEDDING WISH YE ALL THE BEST FOR THE FUTURE.

winstons pt

ALTEK wrote: »

Ok fill me in on these ?

If i win the regional which i buy in for €500+ €50 Reg i have to pay reg then and then i have to pay €5000+ €500 Reg to play the final ? Thats a double reg

I mean its only a heads ip game €500 reg is fair steep for the final?

Also if i win the regional what money do i win ? Do i get a €5000 Ticket to the final and Cash from the money remaining meaning nearly 50% of the prizepool will have to go to first place .

Also what happens if the county does not reach the requirment and get the runners or the player decides they want the cash instead of a seat .

The Final will be 32 players x €5000 + €500 Reg :eek: It hardly costs €16,000 for a heads up Game in fairness the Ept is less Expensive .

The reg for the CF is for the organizers costs running the CF, and the reg for the AIHUPC final is to pay for Winners Cups for each County, the AIHUPC final Cup, advertising, venue, food, i was also hoping to give accommodation for the County Champions, the list gos on and remember all the dealers, i could cut the reg for the AIHUPC Final and get rid of the CF cups and some other trimmings but what good is it winning a County Final and not getting something to show for it. If a player wins his County final and wants the cash, instead of going to the AIHUPC final to represent his County, well then he should not have played in the first place. There will be no cash alternative anyway. The CF winner will receive cash plus his CF Cup plus his buyin for the AIHUPC final, and all the trimmings that comes with it. I thank you for your input.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

Duff Man Jr. wrote: »

Sounds like a class idea but in a years time it might be hard to get 32 players from each county to put up €500. With players playing mulitable county finals this would help. Also many finals will have to be on the same date unless you want them going on for eight months.

Events might have to be 2day because 8 games will take a long time to finish,
A 50/100 level would make a huge difference and for the grand final i'd think about lenthning the structure and maybe best out of 3 games.

You should pay 8 players with [8th 7th 6th 5th] & [4th 3rd] getting the same, otherwise two extra unesscary matches for some.

I can not see a problem in filling 32 seats, players can buyin direct if they wish (lucky them) but there will be a lot of sats for this, how do they fill the bigger buyin tourneys, remember last year for the same price to play in Killarney, they had a cap of 800 and ended up with an alternate list. The CF'S do not have to be on the same date, but i would hope they would be all finished by August 2010, some events may well be 2 day with the organizers doing side events (€120 freezout say).
The structure is taking from the World Heads Up Championship but the CF structure may have to be tweaked to make it a two day event, here is a daily run down for the 3 day AIHUPC Final, but not official yet:

Day 1 Friday
Start 8pm
First round eliminations
Day 2 Saturday
Start1pm
Second round eliminations
Start 5pm
Quarter Finals

---(Dinner break 7pm)---

Start 10pm
Semi Finals
Quarter Final runners up play off for next match

Day 3 Sunday
Start 2pm
5th & 6th place play off match
3rd & 4th place play off match

---(Dinner break 6.30pm)---

Start 8pm
Heads Up Final

The runners up from the quarter finals will have another chance of getting some money for 5th and 6th place so this would not be unnecessary. I thank you for your input.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

To me this payout structure makes very little sense, Either Pay 8 (all the quater finalists) or pay 4 (all the semifinalists). How do you decide who finishes 5th or 6th?

Other than that looks good, I doubt I'll be able to find 550euro to play myself (damn recession) but best of luck with it!

Please see the reply to Duff Man JR for the answer to your question, thank you for you input.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

corkie123 wrote: »

the aussie millons was a 5k entry and it had a 300 reg only . i think your bit high here and about 2 years to late to get 32 players each county to play 500 each for hu tourie but u never know do u :rolleyes:

also u should pay 8 players 50k 1st 30k 2nd 20k 3rd 4th 10k 5th to 8th might be better for u if u got this going

You might get some answers from my other reply's, i thank you for your interest and input.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

tipp86 wrote: »

Im speaking here for certain counties it will work for certain with some places like dublin/cork.

With regards Tipperary there isnt a hope imo that you will get 10 players to stump up 550 to get the one ticket out. You could work at getting lads to stump up 50 for a satt to get 550 ticket but again i find lads in small clubs wont want the ticket they will want the money.

I really like the idea as i hate been negative but just dont see it working on that scale.

Thank you Tipp, as i said i know not many people will not have the money to buyin deirect but there will be a lot of sats for this, it is a year away and hopefully the idea of playing for your County in an All Ireland will grow on some players, maybe even touch there hearts (aaaaaa LOL) thank you for your input.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

I really appreciate all reply's and input, good or bad, positive or negative, this will help me get the best format for the AIHUPC so your helping me with your feedback, and for this i thank you, i have being working on this over a year now and i wont mind another 6 months and hopefully everything will be sorted by the end of the year and i will have an official launch in January 2010, so please keep asking questions or making comments, good or bad, i don't mind.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

JP Poker

Great Idea Paddy, I have ran a few heads-up tournaments before and the dealer cost are really high on these events. I understand that an event like this needs a very high reg fee when compared to a normal tournament as only 2 players are covering the cost per table instead of 9/10.

That said I think your buy-in is to high for what is a specailist event, and I think you will find it hard to get a total of 1024 players who either buy-in direct or sat their way into the CF.

I think if you lowered it to €250 (with a €40 reg included) you would have a better chance of getting this off the ground.

Best of Luck

big_iain

As i said, this is great idea paddy, IPR are fully behind you.

Verbal_Kint

it does not seem to be very clear.

when you do plan to hold county competitions?

are you organising satellites or are you going to leave it to individual clubs to run them?

when you you think the all ireland final will take place and where?

the idea of wearing a county jersey i dont like as if I were to win the kildare area why would i want to purchase a kildare jersey when i am only there temporarily?

the reg is high considering duration of each leg and final wont be very long and there is no need for 16 dealers for example at the final, for example the final with 32 entries could be easily done by 4 dealers and there is no need to charge regional competition entries extra to pay for finalists hotel accommodation as hotels are willing to give group discounts to events like this so the cost will be too small to factor in.

i would like to try to qualify for this but the structure of qualification is very unclear and the double reg is a major issue in calculating value in a tournament and 2x 10% reg fees is a bit much to swallow.

why not have 4 county finalists go through to the final as only 32 entrants will be a major anticlimax to what has the potential to be a very good tournament.

Verbal_Kint

in each county final of 32 entries will you have spots designated for qualifiers of certain poker clubs?

how can a club run a qualifier for this event if they cannot guarantee a place in the county final?

if you are only allowing 32 entrants into each county final and you allow a direct buy in then qualifiers are pointless as there should be enough demand for direct buy ins.

it should be all qualifiers or no qualifiers at all as you cant expect people to play in a satellite only to be told there are no places left.

without the satellites in individual clubs your tournament will not get much exposure.

why not increase the number of places in both county finals and number of county qualifiers to the final event and decrease the buy in at all levels.

the upside of changing the county final from 32 players 500+50 to 128 players 125+10 will bring the reg more into line and make the double reg fees more doable and allow for a reasonable number of places that clubs will feel more confident putting on qualifiers (at which they will charge reg probably 10%).

3 reg fees from qualifier to all ireland final means you realistically have to bring more dead money into this tournament by increasing places and designating a number of qualifing places to some of the bigger clubs nationwide.

this requires a lot more organisation and cooperation from poker clubs and pubs from around the country but if you want to have an 'all ireland' competition you need to not have it become too exclusive otherwise just get sponsorship from one of the irish poker online sites and give the tournament a generic name.

Verbal_Kint

just had another look at the opening post.


550 entry to a tournament with 100 BB starting stack and 30 min clock and 1 strike and your out in the early rounds?

this seems more like a shallow stacked heads up cash game.

increase the starting stack and decrease the levels to about 15 mins but you cant honestly expect to attract a high caliber of player for a 550 tournament that is in effect a crapshoot.

the way the structure is set out means players have to play superaggressive or very quickly half their stack is blinded away, the second barrell will have to be fired pretty much every time on the button just to try to survive which means the whole tournament will come down to "do you feel lucky punk?"


a flush draw +1 over will be an all in move on the flop, top pair go mad pot commit yourself early and put the rest of the stack in hoping the other guy is bluffing, bottom two pair on a draw heavy board go all in on the first hand.

budget travel would get me a week in spain for 550!

Verbal_Kint

did anyone seen the movie 'deal' where the mentor is heads up with his apprentice at a WPT final table and for a couple of hands from the bb he doesnt look at his cards and reraises his apprentices button raise by going all in when quite deepstacked.

when your asking yourself what is the correct strategy for this one you wont find that movie so funny!

JP Poker

Hi Verbal Kint,

Having read your posts I have a couple of notes.

1 The Double Reg: It's not a Double reg! Reg is paid at the CF which goes towards covering the cost of the CF and Reg is paid at the All-Ireland Final which goes towards covering the cost of the All-Ireland Final.

Much the same way as if you were to try and qualify for the Irish Open on Paddy Power, you'd pay reg for the online sat and if you won a package their is reg paid again at the Irish Open.

2 €125 & €10 Reg idea: This will not work at all for the orgainiser. As the dealer costs on an event like this are sky high.

I ran 2 heads-up competions before as €100 & €10 Reg capped at 128 players and Guaranteed €10,000 each time. Both events the wage bill was close €3000 and I didn't get a full 128 at either game. So Reg fee circa €1000 wage bill circa €3000 and on food bill, hotel room hire, advertising, set-up cost ect and both events ran at a loss of over €4000! hence why I haven't ran another one since!!

3 Structure: To be honest I think the structure for this event is too good!! Again at the 2 heads-up competions that I ran (players started with less chips and has 15 Min Blinds) the average game took 1 hour and 30 Mins in the 1st and 2nd Round, 2 hours and 30 Mins in the later rounds.




It's very easy for anyone to come on here and slag off someone saying their reg is high, the structure is crap ect ect.

I'm sure 99% of same people have never tried to organise an event like this and really have no idea of just how much time, effort and money goes into organising and running something like this.

I recently had a player complain to me about my reg fee at one of my dealer dealt pub games (reg was €15) as it was really bad value for money. I later heard the same person talking on the table saying how he was unlucky not to win his seat at this years WSOP as he made it to step 6 on stars twice.

Step 6 on starts is a $2000 & $150 Reg, 6 seater winner take all. 1500 chips turbo game which takes about 90 mins to finish.

I nicely explained to him that stars got $900 for that one SNG (Not to mention the reg on steps 1-5) and provided NO Dealers, NO Food, and a Crap Structure.

My game that night had 34 players for total reg of €510, I had 5 Dealers and 1 TD (myself), provided food and had a good structure.

At the end of the night the same player thanked me for a great night said that it was great value for money once he realised costs were involved in providing a poker game.

Hope this goes some way towards opening players eyes to the above event and the costs Paddy will have to cover.

Verbal_Kint

my intention was not to 'slag' him off. he said he was looking for comments good and bad and i was just making some points to him as i would like to play in a good heads up tournament and was throwing in my two cents. you make some good points jp and there is a lot of behind the scenes work that goes unappreciated.

jamser58

I had a semi on first thought of this event.
Then I realised that the buy in is wayyy too high and the field will be impossible to generate going into the second year of our recession.Unless you go overboard on the satelites me or my friends will not be playing.
Also I like the jersey Idea buy why make it compulsory?
It would be fun alright and add to the occasion/banter but I for example live in Kerry(and would more than likely only be playing satelites here) but hate Kerry football would be forced to wear the awful green and gold should I qualify,not to mention having to fork out for the 40-50E for the jersey.Kinda impractical really,but a good thought.

Four of a kind

The CF will only need 11 players per county in order to get the €5000+€500 entry fee in the All Ireland Final. This in my view can surly be achieved by every county. Fair enough if there were only 11 players there would be no prize money for the CF winner, but that can't be helped.

Honestly, I can't see how this could'nt work out. Even if each club/organiser ran a monthly qualifer with 1 ticket worth €550 going towards the CF then I'm sure the minimum target would be reached easily.

Obviously the smaller poker counties may have problems due to lack of players etc...but I still think it can be done.

I know Paddy has worked on this idea for quite some time and there may be details that need fixing, but this is a huge undertaking on his behalf and I wish him the best of luck with it.

A heads up championship like this in Ireland would be a great addition to an already super annual tournament schedule.

Carlo

Verbal_Kint

the more i think about it the more i respect the amount of work that has to go in to running a tournament like this. paddy the best of luck to you and i hope to be collecting the trophy from you. will keep in touch with this.

winstons pt

7.Derry
8.Donegal ----confirmed

---

The Ace Club
9.Down

Will be back later to answer some questions
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

Verbal_Kint wrote: »

my intention was not to 'slag' him off. he said he was looking for comments good and bad and i was just making some points to him as i would like to play in a good heads up tournament and was throwing in my two cents. you make some good points jp and there is a lot of behind the scenes work that goes unappreciated.

Hi Verbal Kint, i thank you for all your posts and input, yes i did say i wanted to hear from anyone no matter what it was, 128 players, not a chance or this WILL go on for ever, the structure is from the “World Heads Up Poker”, each County will have its own official County organizer and they will be running the final. In a 9/10 seater tournament when you get to “heads up” this becomes a different game (in my opinion its a different game when it gets to the last 5/6 players) and the winner has finished the tournament, but in a HEADS UP TOURNAMENT when you finish your first match against a tight player, you have to do it all over again with a different player, this time aggressive, so there is some element of skill, waiting for the right move, knowing your players moves and we all need a little luck, but don't call it crap shoot, everyone will want to move on to the next round.
Thank you for your thoughts and comments, i will be taking everything you said in to consideration.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

jamser58 wrote: »

I had a semi on first thought of this event.
Then I realised that the buy in is wayyy too high and the field will be impossible to generate going into the second year of our recession.Unless you go overboard on the satelites me or my friends will not be playing.
Also I like the jersey Idea buy why make it compulsory?
It would be fun alright and add to the occasion/banter but I for example live in Kerry(and would more than likely only be playing satelites here) but hate Kerry football would be forced to wear the awful green and gold should I qualify,not to mention having to fork out for the 40-50E for the jersey.Kinda impractical really,but a good thought.

The idea for the Jerseys, apart from making it more fun, more colorful, more sense of honor for the players playing for there county is to distinguish between players at the tables as they are playing, because it wont be announced as Verbal Kint V Winstons pt, it will be Galway V Offaly, and it has noting to do with the GAA Football. There has being a lot of comments about the buyin, so i will work on something and get back with it soon.
Thank you for your thoughts and comments, i will be taking everything you said in to consideration.
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

winstons pt

JP Poker wrote: »

Hi Verbal Kint,

Having read your posts I have a couple of notes.

1 The Double Reg: It's not a Double reg! Reg is paid at the CF which goes towards covering the cost of the CF and Reg is paid at the All-Ireland Final which goes towards covering the cost of the All-Ireland Final.

Much the same way as if you were to try and qualify for the Irish Open on Paddy Power, you'd pay reg for the online sat and if you won a package their is reg paid again at the Irish Open.

2 €125 & €10 Reg idea: This will not work at all for the orgainiser. As the dealer costs on an event like this are sky high.

I ran 2 heads-up competions before as €100 & €10 Reg capped at 128 players and Guaranteed €10,000 each time. Both events the wage bill was close €3000 and I didn't get a full 128 at either game. So Reg fee circa €1000 wage bill circa €3000 and on food bill, hotel room hire, advertising, set-up cost ect and both events ran at a loss of over €4000! hence why I haven't ran another one since!!

3 Structure: To be honest I think the structure for this event is too good!! Again at the 2 heads-up competions that I ran (players started with less chips and has 15 Min Blinds) the average game took 1 hour and 30 Mins in the 1st and 2nd Round, 2 hours and 30 Mins in the later rounds.




It's very easy for anyone to come on here and slag off someone saying their reg is high, the structure is crap ect ect.

I'm sure 99% of same people have never tried to organise an event like this and really have no idea of just how much time, effort and money goes into organising and running something like this.

I recently had a player complain to me about my reg fee at one of my dealer dealt pub games (reg was €15) as it was really bad value for money. I later heard the same person talking on the table saying how he was unlucky not to win his seat at this years WSOP as he made it to step 6 on stars twice.

Step 6 on starts is a $2000 & $150 Reg, 6 seater winner take all. 1500 chips turbo game which takes about 90 mins to finish.

I nicely explained to him that stars got $900 for that one SNG (Not to mention the reg on steps 1-5) and provided NO Dealers, NO Food, and a Crap Structure.

My game that night had 34 players for total reg of €510, I had 5 Dealers and 1 TD (myself), provided food and had a good structure.

At the end of the night the same player thanked me for a great night said that it was great value for money once he realised costs were involved in providing a poker game.

Hope this goes some way towards opening players eyes to the above event and the costs Paddy will have to cover.

JP, you are the man, i could not have put this any better, you saved me a lot of time on Sunday away from my lap top and more time with the kids THANKS.
More info on your heads tournaments, about times, like what was the longest game, my structure from the “World Heads Up Poker” is 30 min per level plus breaks = 3 ½ hours, so i will have to allow 4 hours at least between games, now i know a game might not last that long but i still have to allow for it and not make assumptions, anything would be great, thanks again JP
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

JP Poker

winstons pt wrote: »

JP, you are the man, i could not have put this any better, you saved me a lot of time on Sunday away from my lap top and more time with the kids THANKS.
More info on your heads tournaments, about times, like what was the longest game, my structure from the “World Heads Up Poker” is 30 min per level plus breaks = 3 ½ hours, so i will have to allow 4 hours at least between games, now i know a game might not last that long but i still have to allow for it and not make assumptions, anything would be great, thanks again JP
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

Hi Paddy,

here's links to the heads up competitions that i have ran before

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054927756&highlight=poker+heads+competition

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055026986

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054944206

CHD

Great idea.

Who are WAD Events?

corkie123

JP Poker wrote: »

Hi Paddy,

here's links to the heads up competitions that i have ran before

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054927756&highlight=poker+heads+competition

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055026986

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054944206

and each one of those hu u lost money on and they were on in 2006 when there was more money around . now paddy thinks he get 1024 players 32 from each county to pay 500 each me thinks he wont get it to be honest

winstons pt

corkie123 wrote: »

and each one of those hu u lost money on and they were on in 2006 when there was more money around . now paddy thinks he get 1024 players 32 from each county to pay 500 each me thinks he wont get it to be honest

It did not matter when they were on, this is what i was looking for, paddy dos not think anyting, paddy just looking for feedback, me thinks i just get some good positive help, to be honest
Thank you for your thoughts, help and comments
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

corkie123

winstons pt wrote: »

It did not matter when they were on, this is what i was looking for, paddy dos not think anyting, paddy just looking for feedback, me thinks i just get some good positive help, to be honest
Thank you for your thoughts, help and comments
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

bump

JP Poker

corkie123 wrote: »

and each one of those hu u lost money on and they were on in 2006 when there was more money around . now paddy thinks he get 1024 players 32 from each county to pay 500 each me thinks he wont get it to be honest

My biggest problem was that I didn't think the wage bill was going to be as big as it was. At a €10 reg its not possible to be dealer dealt. Which is why I've suggested to Paddy to do €250 (with €40 reg included).

Also I guaranteed €10k at each of these event and the was an overlay at one of them for sure maybe both of them.

winstons pt

corkie123 wrote: »

bump

Bump

corkie123

JP Poker wrote: »

My biggest problem was that I didn't think the wage bill was going to be as big as it was. At a €10 reg its not possible to be dealer dealt. Which is why I've suggested to Paddy to do €250 (with €40 reg included).

Also I guaranteed €10k at each of these event and the was an overlay at one of them for sure maybe both of them.

true and u learned from them and also from your 3 touries u guaranteed 10k and each one cost u 1.7k or more from your post then . now fair dues to u u made up the overlay and learned from that .

now do u really think paddy can get 32 players from each county to put up 550 or even 250 to make this happen ?

JP Poker

corkie123 wrote: »

true and u learned from them and also from your 3 touries u guaranteed 10k and each one cost u 1.7k or more from your post then . now fair dues to u u made up the overlay and learned from that .

now do u really think paddy can get 32 players from each county to put up 550 or even 250 to make this happen ?

No I don't think Paddy will get 32 Players from each county paying €550. To be honest I'm not sure if he will get 32 to pay €250 (unless they have won tickets).

I personally think €500 - €1000 for the All Ireland Final would be loads.

Maybe run the 32 countys sats at €150 (€20 Reg) with dealers from the quarter finals onwards only and the grand final at €550 ahead with the 32 county winners plus allow 32 more players to buy-in as you might get people over from the Uk for this.

Also you may have players that either don't qualify and can't play the qualifiers and would be willing to buy into the grand final.

corkie123

JP Poker wrote: »

No I don't think Paddy will get 32 Players from each county paying €550. To be honest I'm not sure if he will get 32 to pay €250 (unless they have won tickets).

I personally think €500 - €1000 for the All Ireland Final would be loads.

Maybe run the 32 countys sats at €150 (€20 Reg) with dealers from the quarter finals onwards only and the grand final at €550 ahead with the 32 county winners plus allow 32 more players to buy-in as you might get people over from the Uk for this.

Also you may have players that either don't qualify and can't play the qualifiers and would be willing to buy into the grand final.

thank u a honest answer and on that i really do hope he does make some kind of success with this .

winstons pt

Still tweaking the buy-in structure, back shortly
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

oneillMan999

Wonderful idea and while i dont mind the high reg fee (which is obviously neccessary)...i do think smaller buyins to CF`s are a must...gettin 32 runners from the likes of cork, dublin, wexford, waterford wont be a problem, gettin them from leitrim, longford, monaghan etc at 550 euros a pop will be very difficult to say the least.

i would suggest 250-300 buyin.

structures look fine.

and im sure jerseys would be provided to those that dont have one...theyre easy to come by tbh.

I hope this works out as im sure to be there at the final table with my farney army shirt on!

winstons pt

Could i get some comments, thoughts, and feedback from some CF organizers, maybe if they (or anyone else reading this) could talk to players, i was talking to some today, and they said it is fine the way it is, i know in this game it is very hard to please everybody, so i need more, a lot more suggestions, please don't go back to real-world tournaments and events, say something before you go, i would really appreciate it, and don't forget organizers too, thank you so much.
I want this to be the best Heads Up game in Ireland (and it will )
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

BloodyDeath

winstons pt wrote: »

Could i get some comments, thoughts, and feedback from some CF organizers, maybe if they (or anyone else reading this) could talk to players, i was talking to some today, and they said it is fine the way it is, i know in this game it is very hard to please everybody, so i need more, a lot more suggestions, please don't go back to real-world tournaments and events, say something before you go, i would really appreciate it, and don't forget organizers too, thank you so much.
I want this to be the best Heads Up game in Ireland (and it will )
Regards Paddy @ Winstons Poker

Ross Graham. The Poker Room Cellbridge and The Poker Room Tallaght.

Ross puts on a good show and i dont think he would have a problem holding satts for this in Tallaght.

www.pokerroomcelbridge.com

connie147

Hi Paddy,

I could go writing an essay here but really, JP is echo-ing all my thoughts and I dont think I differ in any way from what he's saying. I read this post yesterday but decided not to comment on it until I let the idea run through my head for a day.

I must say that I think your way out of line on pricing up the entry fees. If this is to be an all-ireland h/u ch/ship, you really want as many players as possible to compete in the early rounds at county level to generate the interest the tourney would deserve. Instead of running a €550 game in say "Galway" that maybe 15-20 players might play, why not run a €150 game(€125+25) that 60 players might play (or 160 maybe when you take all of galway into account). Pub games would run satts for a €150 game, but many pubs would baulk at the idea of running satts for big games (I find that in my area anyway).

Say Fintan decides to run the Galway h/u ch/ship for you. Does he want to run a 15-20 player tourney amongst his regulars to see who represents Galway, or does he want to attract most of the Galway county players into his club to participate in the galway county h/u championship, with the winner going on to represent Galway at the finals? Would he not like to see this tourney running over a few weeks generasting publicity for his club and the tourney and attracting new player (incl pub players) into his club? Which do you think is the more attractive option for him? Which option do you think will get you more co-operation from the various organisers?

Have a set fee for the entry of the county champion into the All-Irl finals (not the 5k your talking about as I think thats way too rich, €1000€1,500-or €2000 max, seems about right). Also consider that the World H/U c/ship held in barcelona has a 2000 euro entry fee (IIRC).
If your worried that that type of entry fee wont generate enough reg to successfully run the tourney for you at the final stage, well, consider this:

Galway winner in your current system--€5,000 + €500 reg. So obviously, Galway county and all other counties provide €500 reg each.

Now consider this alternative. Fintan in Galway runs the €150 vertion I spoke about above, and all players who enter the county c/ship (say 100) have to pay a €10 reg that goes direct to you as organiser of the All-Irl that goes towards your costs of running the finals Re dealers, trophies, room hire added money, etc etc, that 100 x €10 reg for galway = €1000 reg. This can be got by making the buy-in there €160 (€130 + 20 + 10) or €150 (€120 + 20 + 10). NO Reg Fee to be charged to 32 finalists as their €1k,€1.5k or €2k entry fee is now reg free.

You could allow each county organiser to set their own entry fee to their county championship (each organiser will know what best suits their area) with the only proviso being that the champion plays in the all-irl final by way of the organiser paying his €1000/€1500/€2000 entry fee. and giving you €10 for each player that participated, with a minimum of €350 collected in reg fees for you. Smaller counties might only raise the €350, but the bigger ones would be making that up with €1000+ imho). If you dont like the double reg and you think it might lead to problems, then call the €10 a membership fee that players who want to participate must pay and the organiser must pass on.

If you keep the buy-in down, as in €1000 or €1500, I think you could let the winner and r/up play in the All-Irl finals. Then you'd have a 64 player tourney, representative of the whole country. You might want to keep back 4 spots for successfull irish players that mostly dont play the local circuit as in Andy Black, Padraig Parkinson, Ciaran o Leary, Donnacha o dea.

These are just initial ideas that I hope will help you. I know for a fact that a €550 buy in for county ch/ship level here in Kerry would not work and we would struggle (but possibly get there eventually) in providing 1 player with a €5,500 eventual entry to the finals. I think we'd successfully run a Kerry county ch/ship with the secondary system I've outlined.

You asked for out opinions, I've given you my initial ones. Dont know if thats all I wanted to say, but it is 6am. I'll need to read over this again tomorrow and see what shyte I posted.

PS: We'd be delighted to organise the kerry section for you, but, if its run under the system your proposing, I would fear for its success.

Connie

PS: You gotta get JP in there somewhere running some section for you. I dont see his name on the list, yet he has shown great interest in this thread!

Famous45

Your expectations are too high, as much as I believe that ambition is a quality attribute, on this occasion the entry fee is simply too steep.

A comment was made that you want this to be the best Heads Up game in Ireland, in oder to achieve that you need to attract Joe & Johnny who play down the pub with their mates on a Monday night, or go round to Johnny's once a month for a game. Trying to spread the word solely amongst the poker community in Ireland, which probably only consists of this forum, will not generate the numbers you require to run the event smoothly and successfully.

I love the idea of involving all counties, jersey's etc and I think a lot of people outside the poker community who play for a laugh would probably be willing to stump up €100 for the chance to represent their county and in turn be crowned an All Ireland Champion. €500 Entry fee is for further down the line, ie: in a few years when you have established the event and it's recognised throughout the country.

oneillMan999

K.I.S.S... Keep It Simple Stupid!

While connie had some good ideas, you dont wanna overcomplicate things.
Youre initial idea of county championships with 1 player goin tru to the all ireland is spot on, but at 550 per head, its not really doable.
64 players goin tru to the all ireland finals isnt realy viable as regards to dealers/time/costs.

Lowering the CF`s buyin and getting 32 representatives from each county to committ to getting one player qualified for the All Ireland will take the pressure off you.

Also, if one or more counties dont commit, then maybe an Irish pro could represent that county, (altho i wouldnt like to meet paddy parkinson in the 1st round...unless he was drunk ofc)

Verbal_Kint

considering the nature of heads up poker i would be in favor of about a hundred buy in but i realise that the fees this level of a buy in would generate would not cover the costs or at least make it worthwhile of a TDs time.

Thats based on my usual tournament entry fee, for others the 550 is not a problem. The solution for the jim and johnnie is something similar to the self dealt pub tournaments with the final table dealer dealt to make you feel special but then again there is not enough places going to justify pub qualifiers.

in a nutshell, shell out the 550 or watch from the sidelines.

Verbal_Kint

connie, you have volunteered us for a 20% reg in a heads up tournament. jesus if that doesn't make a bookies overround look small i dont know what will.

JP Poker

Verbal_Kint wrote: »

connie, you have volunteered us for a 20% reg in a heads up tournament. jesus if that doesn't make a bookies overround look small i dont know what will.

I think people need to stop getting hung up on the reg as a % of buy-in and look at the cost of running an event like this or any other event for that mather.

Say I was to run a dealer dealt game with 10k chips, 30 Min Blinds and provide food. The cost of running this game will be the same to me as an organiser no mather what the buy in is.

I Could make it a,

€50 & €20 Reg or 40%
€100 & €20 Reg or 20%
€200 & €20 Reg or 10%
€300 & €30 Reg or 10% :eek: Shock, Horror I make more money on this game than the €50 game but the 10% is lower!

Dealer cost and food cost don't go down just because the buy-in is a lower buy-in does it?