Listen to Joe Duffy today(10/7/09)

AaronFitz

Personally I would never let my kid's play this game, not until at least 17. Why? It's clearly an addictive game on so many levels and exposure to this at a young age, as in below 14, will not only give your child an addictive personality at the weakest point of their lives in terms of peer pressure (How many people have started smoking and doing dupe between the ages of 14-17??? I doubt I need to show stats for that) But it will also make them out of touch with reality. Now I have first hand of experience of this as my younger brother who is at the moment 9 he also suffers with very mild autism and I think I'm the only one who actually notices in my family but he is clearly addicted to the game legend of zelda on the Wii..... Now this game imo has nothing on WoW yet its very much so based on the same things (Bows, arrows, swords, potions, sheilds etc except WoW goes deeper than that and into more detail.) I fear the day he grows old enough to find out about WoW and wishes to try it out I really do. I'm just happy I'm not at home anymore so I dont have to worry about myself exposing him....He is totally engrossed with it, he believes its based on an ancient story that really took place in acient times in Greece even after much explanation of the title term "Legend". This imo show's all games are addictive in one form or another so all this blame cant be blamed on WoW. It is only put on a pedestal as it is so successful and popular.


Then there is the argument "Well at least my kid is not on the streets doing drugs etc" and this is a very valid point. I would stand by it if I had my own kid's but it would be moderated to some degree and definatly not be below the age of 17 / 18 (tests time) WoW should be treated the same as going for a drink, some people enjoy a glass a wine with their dinner, and some people go out on the pi$$ every night of the week but if you can control this and not let it control you then why not do it if your enjoying it?

Now onto the remark this caller made saying she knows some adults engrossed in it... I can never understand this, why is it there is such a barrier with the generation below us? When ever this argument is brought up I always say to them "Ok, so your saying you have a problem with me playing a game for 4 hours at a time with 10 min breaks every hour...." Normally people would go "Yes. Obviously!" then I ask "So if I was playing chess online for 4 hours in a row with my buddy down the road whom I could easilly play chess with irl but it's just more conviant to play online in the comfort of my home, would you have a problem then?" They get stuck, they cant answer it as it's correct in a sense. Now everybody needs to face to face confrontation but not all the time, sometime people need time alone too ya know, I personally go out twice a week and I'd never let WoW effect my social life and if it ever did I'd take a break like one should, but people who are not educated on the subject they are complaining about.... If they were they would realise WoW does have a quite a social aspect to it...

Ivan

AaronFitz wrote: »

Personally I would never let my kid's play this game, not until at least 17. Why? It's clearly an addictive game on so many levels and exposure to this at a young age, as in below 14, will not only give your child an addictive personality at the weakest point of their lives in terms of peer pressure (How many people have started smoking and doing dupe between the ages of 14-17??? I doubt I need to show stats for that) But it will also make them out of touch with reality. Now I have first hand of experience of this as my younger brother who is at the moment 9 he also suffers with very mild autism and I think I'm the only one who actually notices in my family but he is clearly addicted to the game legend of zelda on the Wii..... Now this game imo has nothing on WoW yet its very much so based on the same things (Bows, arrows, swords, potions, sheilds etc except WoW goes deeper than that and into more detail.) I fear the day he grows old enough to find out about WoW and wishes to try it out I really do. I'm just happy I'm not at home anymore so I dont have to worry about myself exposing him....He is totally engrossed with it, he believes its based on an ancient story that really took place in acient times in Greece even after much explanation of the title term "Legend". This imo show's all games are addictive in one form or another so all this blame cant be blamed on WoW. It is only put on a pedestal as it is so successful and popular.


Then there is the argument "Well at least my kid is not on the streets doing drugs etc" and this is a very valid point. I would stand by it if I had my own kid's but it would be moderated to some degree and definatly not be below the age of 17 / 18 (tests time) WoW should be treated the same as going for a drink, some people enjoy a glass a wine with their dinner, and some people go out on the pi$$ every night of the week but if you can control this and not let it control you then why not do it if your enjoying it?

Now onto the remark this caller made saying she knows some adults engrossed in it... I can never understand this, why is it there is such a barrier with the generation below us? When ever this argument is brought up I always say to them "Ok, so your saying you have a problem with me playing a game for 4 hours at a time with 10 min breaks every hour...." Normally people would go "Yes. Obviously!" then I ask "So if I was playing chess online for 4 hours in a row with my buddy down the road whom I could easilly play chess with irl but it's just more conviant to play online in the comfort of my home, would you have a problem then?" They get stuck, they cant answer it as it's correct in a sense. Now everybody needs to face to face confrontation but not all the time, sometime people need time alone too ya know, I personally go out twice a week and I'd never let WoW effect my social life and if it ever did I'd take a break like one should, but people who are not educated on the subject they are complaining about.... If they were they would realise WoW does have a quite a social aspect to it...

With all due respect, using your mildly autistic brother as an example of how pc games/WoW is addictive is completely biased at the very least. If he read a book for that time, would he be addicted to books? An addiction implies a physical need. I dont see how you can be physically addicted to a pc game. You can enjoy it immensely, and throw a hissy fit until your parents comply and let you play it - but addicted you aint.

As for the rest of your post, that just seems to counter your original argument.
Furthermore, if parents took an interest in their child and played with them or took a hand in their entertainment - then kids might not be so ready to go spend 4-5 hours playing a PC game to keep entertained. It's the responsibility and the fault of the parent, for leaving their child to be babysat by their computer, not the fault of the developers because their game is so damn addictive/evil...

AaronFitz

I used him as an example as with his mindset he is far more susceptible to develop an addictive personality, and yes he is addicted to certain books (I'v being told every time when I go home about his book on gem's he reads constantly but that is off topic. When anything appeals to him it becomes part of he routine.... That's how it works.

Also a book is a terrible example as a comparable stimuli to a game, fixed plot Vs I can do what every I want hold no value... Yes in the game there is only one way to clear it so to speak but nothing is stopping you from doing things your way.

Addiction can occur in any way or form, educate yourself on it, you claim you don't see how people can become physically addicted to a game. You can become addicted to eating my friend, for the very same reason, it released endorphins, which although aren't addictive, the effect they cause which people would normally associate with feeling good is, why would you not want to feel good all the time? There's some people who are addicted to plucking hairs from their body and have raw nostrils and eyebrows even eyelashes, don't believe me? Look it up.... Anything that creates a sence of satisfaction or feel good emotion can become addictive.

Ivan

So what you are saying, is people are addicted to feeling good. Not addicted to video games. Or am I missing something?

AaronFitz

Also please do point out where I contradicted myself anywhere? I stated clearly I would not let my children play until a certain age pretty much for the same reason I would not let them drink. This same brother I referred to is in kickboxing and swimming so trying to pawn it off on the parent for not entertaining the child is also wrong, that holds no argument either, he still play's zelda i'd say with 85% of his free time despite clearing it already.... Thats not addiction? k

AaronFitz

Why do people thrive to get the best gear and the best rank and the best xyz in WoW?

AaronFitz

When you play a game and clear it, why do 90% of people feel the need to find all hidden content? In a game achievements (which thats right make you feel good) Will keep pulling you back, feeling good makes you do something over and over, people do coke over and over not because they think it looks cool, its cause the buzz, which they cant get in normal life so they take it despite of its effects. This is by no means comparable to WoW in one way but it clearly is in many. People dont spend hours infront of a PC cause they have nothing better to do, just think about what your saying, why would anyone person sit in one place for 3-4 hours other than the fact they are enjoying themselves, being compleatly drawen into becoming better and better?

Nehaxak

Aw, I'm late and missed all of this.
I started playing Football Manager Live a couple days ago and haven't even thought about Wow (or got much sleep either tbh...) - going to cancel my Wow accounts this weekend. I don't even like football really ffs

Best way to sum it up for those that wouldn't understand it is that gaming, in particular online gaming with all it's social aspects, is the newer generations replacement for sitting down and pigging out in front of the TV for hours, usually just watching crap.

Actually that's a tad simplistic, replace "gaming" with "computing" and it might be a bit better, so as to include those of us who started in the early days with spectrums/orics/atari, progressing to Amiga's and then, sadly, PC's or Macs (spit!) and indeed consoles and portables...

All of them progressing on to bigger (or smaller!) and better versions/improvements and/or ingenuities as and to what the public themselves wanted and asked for.

Each of the above going off on their own tangent and speciality in and of itself. Gaming progressing from single player to multiplayer, to MMO's and the pinacle of MMO's really now being World of Warcraft (previously PlanetSide imho or EvercrackQuest).

As the TV has been used as a cheap babysitting tool for others, for others still it has progressed to the games instead - as believe it or not, most young people think TV & reading books are just bloody boring when you've so many other options available to you to while away your time on.
Others still when older, turn to drink and drugs - not because of any personal addictive nature but because they're bored and have nothing else available for them to do or life itself sucks balls for them, or so they think anyway (or in most cases it probably really does).

The high you get from the likes of hard drugs takes you mentally and physically away from what you yourself deem as a shítty life and you will become physically addicted to that high, so much so that your body and mind cannot do without the drugs and the high you get once you are addicted, the high just becomes normal.

If WoW were ended tomorrow or taken away from you, no matter how engrossed you might be in the game - you wouldn't end up in agony on the floor rolling around shítting and pissing on yourself screaming in pain because your mind and body needs to play wow, like you would if you were going cold turkey from Heroin for example.
No, you'll just say "ah fúck it, I'll go watch some TV or browse the interwebs..."

It is NOT addictive, it is just very, very enjoyable but there is or will be better to come, both games wise and computing wise - who knows, maybe some day we'll all just plug our brains into some virtual world.

In ending and backing up some of what Ivan said, If you can't be arsed to involve yourself in your kids' lives and provide them with alternative options to games (wow or otherwise) then you've only yourself as a parent to blame.

It's both a lame excuse and stupidly lazy to blame your own misgivings as a parent on the stand-in babysitter your kids have taken a liking too because you as a parent have been missing from a part of their lives both emotionally and physically.

Now, I'm off to play FM live some more, servers are back up after the early morning maintenance...

Sleep ? wtf is that ?

WellyJ

Nehaxak wrote: »

It is NOT addictive, it is just very, very enjoyable but there is or will be better to come, both games wise and computing wise - who knows, maybe some day we'll all just plug our brains into some virtual world.

I agree with much of this, but it is wrong to say that the game is not addictive. Sure it's not a "Physical Addiction". Your body does not rely on a game to function. But you can absolutely become "Mentally Addicted" to it.

There have been times where I have been sick of WOW and not getting any enjoyment from it, but still I would log in, and just stand around in game, despite the fact that I had much better things I could be doing. I have also let down friends/family because of the game at times, ending up wasting an evening standing in Orgrimmar instead of meeting them for example. In hindsight this makes no sense to me and I cannot explain this in any other way other than I am most likely "addicted" to the game.

The fact remains though, that there are many things in life that people can get addicted to. This is just one of the latest ones, a clueless old bag wouldn't get onto Liveline to discuss her teenager being addicted to television or smoking these days, but this is "new" to Irish media and therefore she gets onto the radio. It's tedious to have to listen to this kind of sensationalism, and I must admit that I had to stop listening. It is not Blizzard's fault that parents do not how to limit their child's exposure to this, or any other game, it's parenting failure.

Ivan

Personally, I think just because you enjoy something, even if it's so much so that it seems weird to other people, doesnt automatically mean you are addicted. People throw that phrase around too much. So much so that I think smokers and alcoholics should be pissed off.

My mother enjoys Home and Away. She'll plan her day around seeing it every day, regardless of where she is or what she's doing. Is she addicted or does she just really like the stupid tv show and gets a certain amount of pleasure from watching the inane plots develop?

I also really, really enjoy having sex. So much so that I would neglect anything else in my life, to secure it... does that make me an addict? Honestly people, the idea that someone is addicted to a computer game is somewhat offensive to me.

Give someone a better computer game to the one they are playing and they demonstrate how unaddictive games are. Give a drug addict something other than their drug of choice and watch what happens

WellyJ

Ivan wrote: »

Give someone a better computer game to the one they are playing and they demonstrate how unaddictive games are. Give a drug addict something other than their drug of choice and watch what happens

Surely it's more fair to compare moving onto a new, more enjoyable game, to moving from smoking Silk Cut to Marlboro because you prefer the "taste". At the same time, continuing your addiction?

Taking away cigarettes altogether is what would cause a problem, but again, this is a physical addiction so it's worse.

You are probably right in that when I say I am addicted to WOW, it is really because it is the best MMO available at the moment, in my opinion. If something better comes along I would probably drop it quite fast, but only because my "addiction" will continue to be fed by this new game.

You say again that it is really just very very enjoyable, and again I disagree, because like I said, there have been times where I have had total burnout from WOW, and found nothing enjoyable about it whatsoever, but still I would log in all the time, and even question myself while doing this. To me this makes it clear that I am addicted. I would still need a good counter-explanation to this to start to change my view.

Ronan|Raven

I should point out I havent enjoyed wow and her sweaty armpits for nearly two months I am sure come winter I shall start playing again.

Ivan

WellyJ wrote: »

Surely it's more fair to compare moving onto a new, more enjoyable game, to moving from smoking Silk Cut to Marlboro because you prefer the "taste". At the same time, continuing your addiction?

But how do you explain moving from one genre to another? Surely this is similar to giving a smoker, some beer instead and saying "here, drink that, it'll take the edge off " You'd get a punch in the face

WellyJ wrote: »

Taking away cigarettes altogether is what would cause a problem, but again, this is a physical addiction so it's worse.

You are probably right in that when I say I am addicted to WOW, it is really because it is the best MMO available at the moment, in my opinion. If something better comes along I would probably drop it quite fast, but only because my "addiction" will continue to be fed by this new game.

Boredom is a powerful motivator. But when was the last time you heard of somebody robbing an old woman to fund their wow subscription?
An addiction implies that you are reliant on the input from a particular source. In this case, the activity of playing World of Warcraft. To be truly addicted, you couldnt just change source so easily and even then, you would be addicted to the new activity but still addicted to the previous. Akin to a smoker becoming an alcoholic too. You wouldnt just stop smoking while drinking heavily.

WellyJ wrote: »

You say again that it is really just very very enjoyable, and again I disagree, because like I said, there have been times where I have had total burnout from WOW, and found nothing enjoyable about it whatsoever, but still I would log in all the time, and even question myself while doing this. To me this makes it clear that I am addicted. I would still need a good counter-explanation to this to start to change my view.

Again, probably a combination of boredom and laziness to look for something better/move onto something better. Plus WoW is updated quite regularly, so it's so easy to just "hang on until the next patch". Then there are the friends inherent in playing the game. Again, using the drug related comparison - Friends are a distraction or a means to an end to a drug addict. Whereas in a game/MMO they are often what keeps someone playing, long after the original reason for playing is gone.

WellyJ

Ivan wrote: »

But how do you explain moving from one genre to another? Surely this is similar to giving a smoker, some beer instead and saying "here, drink that, it'll take the edge off " You'd get a punch in the face

Well that's just the thing, I also play other games, and enjoy them briefly, until I complete them or whatever, but I always come back to WOW. And most of the time I even have WOW logged in while playing these other games, they do not give me the same sense of satisfaction

Boredom is a powerful motivator. But when was the last time you heard of somebody robbing an old woman to fund their wow subscription?
An addiction implies that you are reliant on the input from a particular source. In this case, the activity of playing World of Warcraft. To be truly addicted, you couldnt just change source so easily and even then, you would be addicted to the new activity but still addicted to the previous. Akin to a smoker becoming an alcoholic too. You wouldnt just stop smoking while drinking heavily.

It is hard to justify a comparison here with drug addicts stealing money to fund their habit. If someone has enough money to have a computer and a broadband connection, it is only logical that they can probably afford to pay a WoW subscription. Again, drug addiction is also a strong physical addiction, that can cause people to do some pretty crazy **** to make sure they feed this addiction. I am not saying WoW is on par with this by any means. But it still is addictive. I have already admitted that the addiction is to MMO gaming, and probably not WoW itself so the "source" you mention is MMO gaming, not WoW, and therefore removing it totally from my lifestyle would make me yearn for it without doubt.

Again, probably a combination of boredom and laziness to look for something better/move onto something better. Plus WoW is updated quite regularly, so it's so easy to just "hang on until the next patch". Then there are the friends inherent in playing the game. But again, using the drug related comparison - Friends are a distraction or a means to an end to a drug addict. Whereas in a game/MMO they are often what keeps someone playing, long after the original reason for playing is gone.

This is a flawed comparison. The "Drug" is the MMO, the friends are people you enjoy the "Drug" with. Much like heroin addicts shooting up together in a laneway, or people going to the smoking area of a nightclub to have a smoke. Alcoholics sitting together in a bar.

The fact is though, what I've mentioned there are the "happier" times of the addiction. The stage I have written about previously where I will idle in WoW even when no friends are online, are akin to the alcoholic sitting alone on the park bench with the bottle of wine, or the heroin addict shooting up alone in the toilets of a train station.

TheDoc

I'm used to hearing this sort of stuff now with airsoft all the time. Especially on Joe Duffy. It is clearly a show that just churns out outrageous claims and completely distorted facts : /

Matt Coopers research team have me as a contact for gaming,airsoft and few other things. They did a piece on Wrath of the lich king when it came out and was much more informative, factual and focused solely on the game and how its popularity. A show like Matt Cooper is usually more factual, yes less dramatic, but a show listened to by the educated populace.

Shows like joe Duffy and Adrian Kennedy, their listener base says it all really. My mother text me during work telling me to turn on the radio but I couldnt, but she felt compelled to ring in and tell off the woman on air, she couldnt get through.

My mothers take on it, aswell as probably 90% of the players, is that WoW is an addictive game yes, but it is down the individual as to how much time they put into it. I can easily drop wow for a few nights to spend time with my girlfriend, friends, work or airsoft. Parents are very quick to point the finger, with most irish people to be honest, at every other minor factor except themselves, or their own failings as parents.

WoW is a game that promotes social interaction, believe it or not. In my own personal situation my immediate group of friends are big into clubbing and doing drugs etc something I'm not into, I'm not even hefty into drinking. So WoW is something that I can sit down to and spend a night on. I've got friends from real life who play, and guys I just know online but who I get on with.

As me and Gj always say, if we didnt have people to chat to on wow, we wouldn't play it. I've been thrilled since moving to outland just for the banter,chat and social aspect, playing on the same server with a ridic amount of sound irish blokes.

It is a pity I missed the show or I would have been straight onto it, with similar defences to that of airsoft.

It is not the games fault, millions of people are able o play the game casualy or hardcore, and be able to balance play with a healthy lifestyle and social life, people who sit on their machine for 24 hours straight, thats their choice, and more power to them for having that dedication.

One of my mates is pretty addicted, spending large amounts of time levelling alts, instancing etc. I envy the fact he can stay up all night and play. I know him in personally and yeah he might have a slight addictive personality, but he is active, social and great craic.

Parents should be really looking at themselves and the enviroment in which their kids live before pointing fingers. My mother had the same attitude towards WoW maybe a year ago, and when she say that I was playing with my mates, and new people I was jsut chatting to, she was cool with it, she then was encouraging and supportive of it, when I told her I was opting not to go clubbing with my junkie mates and prefered to play WoW.

Its all down to individual situations, and I wouldnt be too suprised if some new budding TD or something came out with remarks against Wow, but it is not like we have anything to worry about, and I'd regularly brush these comments and radio shows aside.

sunzz

Listened to it there, I honestly don't see the need for the call.

SHE is the parent who is ALLOWING them to play the game in her own house...I mean get a grip, moaning about a gaming company as a direct result of her own inability to monitor her kids and how long they spend, Oh Christ lets just blame all our downfalls on someone else, that will make the world a better place. Not only that, she is moaning about the time spent on the game yet didn't even bother to look into the parental controls that Ronan and so many more have pointed out, yes good parenting.

I play Uni soccer, hit the gym 3 times a week, hold down a part time job and go out most weekends with my mates, I'm 23 and I play this game as much as anybody, it doesn't stop me holding conversations socially with anyone, it doesn't make me turn down other aspects of life in order to sit in org/iron talking to people, I don't neglect my work, study and or friends, I play it in my spare time when there is nothing else to do, like the majority of people.

It's not the game that's addictive it's peoples personalities, obviously her sons have addictive personalities if its not wow I can assure you it would be something else.
She needs to look closer at her own home life before she comes on air warning everyone else of this new epidemic

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

When you log on to walk around dalaran, stormwind, ironforge for a few hours while chatting to some people, inspecting random people and the AH, you are addicted.

Ivan, you are wrong, you can also form a psychological dependence of something, addiction covers both physical and psychological "habit forming". You can get addicted to almost anything. There is a line between enjoyment and addiction. Ever play the game and not enjoyed it, but you cannot leave? You would be lying if you said you didn't.

World of Warcraft is HIGHLY addictive. Same with call of duty 4 and 5. If you knew anything about business you would know this, developers will make the game and add a level of "stickiness" to it. Why do you think there are sooo many achievements, rare pets/mounts, quests, professions and the likes? This adds to the level of addictiveness a game can be. While some games can be addicted, they have endings, WoW does not. No matter what you say, there is no real ending. Sure you can go and do every boss in ulduar 10/25 on hardmode, but there will always be patches, and they are timed just right as to keep people interested in the game.

Patches were origionally for bug fixes in computer games, now they are adding whole new content.

There was a time when I was pretty addicted to wow and BF2, when I was in college and a lot of free time on my hands. After 5 years, the game is somewhat boring, not as much of a challange for me etc etc. For me, right now, the game is not addictive.

An addictive personality helps, but when developers put in so much time and effort to make the game much more addictive, it doesn't help.

No matter what anyone says, this game IS addictive.

If you believe that games are made, and addictiveness is not thought of, then you are completely blind, especially when there is a subscription fee.

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it. Thankfully he has cut down a lot, he only logs on to post his 750 auctions on AH. He plays to get the cap in gold. Buys things off AH cheap, sells them for the right price. I think that is nuts.

Oh and if you were to leave your guild, or server, I am sure there are people you would miss... but would you really care? Honestly? I know I wouldn't, hence they are not real friends O.o Some people you would get very close to and maybe even visit, but they are never going to be your best mate, are they?

If your best mate is a level 80 night elf druid, who you meet in dalaran for a chin wag... then you gotta sort yourself out, seriously.

WellyJ

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it

That makes me feel better about my addiction

My life is a lot more "normal" despite my need for WoW time (and i shower regularly xD )

][cEMAN**

OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Recent studies show that they contradict previous studies, but agree with the studies before that.

It's a ****ing game. Did you get addicted to 'tig' when you were a kid?

Most addictive entertainment being pumped to us constantly - football. In all forms of media. The majority are addicted, but i'm not. Does that mean I don't have an addictive personality? But I play wow? OMG....i'm confused. Who am I? What does my life mean? Jesus christ ****ting in a bucket how will I ever be me again.

You can't in all seriousness get into a conversation about addiction and fixate on video games. You have to cover all the bases, and not just skim over them and say "But that's completely different". No, it's not. You're generalising physical and psychological addictions.

I know people who've read a book and read it over and over again (in response to a previous poster). They're not autistic, they just like it. Are they addicted?

Now seriously, get off your ****ing high horses or go get your degree in psychology, do a study, then come back with the full results of your findings....then justify wasting that amount of time in your life on something as pointless as trying to prove a point ON AN INTERNET FORUM!

I'm away to go check out some hot Belf in Dalaran...

AaronFitz

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

StinkyMunkey

For me there is a fine fine line between addiction and having a hobby.

An addiction, physical or mental to me means - that if you are addicted to something, it thats president in your life.

Example's of what i see as addiction.

* Alcoholics crave alcohol, and it dictates their lifestyle. An alcoholic always think s about where and when his next pint will arrive.

* Smoker's crave nicotine, and while it is a more passive addiction, the word "crave" is what make's it an addiction.

* Junkie's crave drug's, and this is an example of a more fair reaching addiction.

* Gamer's who are addicted to online gaming or otherwise, spend the time they are not playing a game, thinking about the game. And put play time before social life, family life, other interet's etc...!

And while i could continue giving example's about other addictions, which by the way could probably encompass every aspect of life from watching talk show's to jumping out of plane's. To me, the vast majority of people all have an interest or hobby in a wide variety of thing's, some being better enjoyed than other's. But really enjoying something and thinking about it, doe's not make it an addiction, it's like every thing "everyone" doe's in life - everything in moderation.

I myslef spend to much time with WoW and do think about it when im not playing it, but it's not the be all and end all of everything. I by nature have always leaned towards playing game's, be it an atari or present day online computer game. And have spent more time than i probably should have playing some sort of game. I would go as far to say i have a mild addiction to games of this nature. But saying that, ive always enjoyed a social life, work - well the people i work with, a family and other things in life.

AaronFitz

AaronFitz wrote: »

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

Does it really come down to using wikipedia to try and prove a point. WoW is not addictive, I like many others can go weeks and sometimes motnhs without playing it and when I do play I'm not transformed into some mad man obsessed with completing every task. There are some people who become addicted, but they have an addictive personality and if it wasn't WoW it would be soemthing else. It's easy to blame a game, it lets parents and advocate groups use an easy scape goat to cover up for their failings.

][cEMAN**

AaronFitz wrote: »

If you still fell WoW is not addictive, wikipedia it and view how people have being so engrossed with it they let their own child die from neglect. Would you do this? More than likely not, has it happened? yes. was it a once off? I doubt it.

You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

11 million subscribers. Lets try to get more than a handful of examples.

I'm not saying it's not addictive, i'm saying you can't say one thing is, and ignore everything else, then try to say that the thing you pointed out is worse than everything else. It's not. Wow is addictive. Games are addictive. If they weren't, you wouldn't keep playing them for more than half an hour. Most people's attention spans (who play games), aren't very high anyway.

But tbh I think i'll take my chances with wow, given the casualties and destroyed lives from sports, alcohol, stalkers, and...well....you

Psycopat

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

I would also add that I have a friend who plays wow. He would play for over 60 hours straight... he would come downstairs after a while and tell us how much gold he farmed, or whatever. Most of this time was just spent talking to people, about the game mostly. Something like elitestjerks. He didn't shower that often, didn't eat, (dinner would be a packet of chicken goujons), NEVER went out, only to the shop. Inside all day, ever single day... He started playing in TBC, within the year he had over 200 days played... That is completely insane, we couldn't understand it. Thankfully he has cut down a lot, he only logs on to post his 750 auctions on AH. He plays to get the cap in gold. Buys things off AH cheap, sells them for the right price. I think that is nuts.

Kakistos? :P

TheDoc

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61097254']OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Your alright.....aslong as your on a PVE server with a Paladin in your group I'd say you will live a full and fortuitous life.

][cEMAN**

Oh thank god. I'm a paladin. I'll live forever! yay

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61097254']OMG I play wow....is it fatal? How long have I got doc?

Recent studies show that they contradict previous studies, but agree with the studies before that.

It's a ****ing game. Did you get addicted to 'tig' when you were a kid?

Most addictive entertainment being pumped to us constantly - football. In all forms of media. The majority are addicted, but i'm not. Does that mean I don't have an addictive personality? But I play wow? OMG....i'm confused. Who am I? What does my life mean? Jesus christ ****ting in a bucket how will I ever be me again.

You can't in all seriousness get into a conversation about addiction and fixate on video games. You have to cover all the bases, and not just skim over them and say "But that's completely different". No, it's not. You're generalising physical and psychological addictions.

I know people who've read a book and read it over and over again (in response to a previous poster). They're not autistic, they just like it. Are they addicted?

Now seriously, get off your ****ing high horses or go get your degree in psychology, do a study, then come back with the full results of your findings....then justify wasting that amount of time in your life on something as pointless as trying to prove a point ON AN INTERNET FORUM!

I'm away to go check out some hot Belf in Dalaran...

Where do you get this crap from?

Not all games are addictive, some have a higher level of addictiveness than others. Some have none at all. To say all things in the same category has the same level of addictiveness is not very intelligent.

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61098718']You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

11 million subscribers. Lets try to get more than a handful of examples.

I'm not saying it's not addictive, i'm saying you can't say one thing is, and ignore everything else, then try to say that the thing you pointed out is worse than everything else. It's not. Wow is addictive. Games are addictive. If they weren't, you wouldn't keep playing them for more than half an hour. Most people's attention spans (who play games), aren't very high anyway.

But tbh I think i'll take my chances with wow, given the casualties and destroyed lives from sports, alcohol, stalkers, and...well....you

You are completely missing the point, and your posts are making little to no sence at all.

The game IS addictive, there is no argument here about it.

Just because one game can be addictive, doesn't mean all games are addictive.

Everything has the potential to be addictive. WoW has incorporated a lot of differant things to make it addictive, to keep the player interested/addicted, in order to make more money. It really isn't that difficult to understand, is it? I am not sure if it is possible to simplify it any further for those finding it hard to contemplate.

Psycopat wrote: »

Kakistos? :P

Possibly

][cEMAN**

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Everything has the potential to be addictive.

Seems if you blabber on enough about something you finally get to the point that people have already tried to tell you.

I was merely being colourful with my explination rather than trying to call someones intelligence into question.

But by all means, go down the same argument that you do nearly every time i've seen you post, which is simply insulting the people you don't agree with.

I think the fact that you clearly stated what I was already saying, shows you aren't paying enough attention to what you read.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61103641']Seems if you blabber on enough about something you finally get to the point that people have already tried to tell you.

I was merely being colourful with my explination rather than trying to call someones intelligence into question.

But by all means, go down the same argument that you do nearly every time i've seen you post, which is simply insulting the people you don't agree with.

I think the fact that you clearly stated what I was already saying, shows you aren't paying enough attention to what you read.

No, it means that you post in such a way that people cannot understand WTF you are talking about.

Where did I insult you? Not my fault you are easily offended by everything somebody says...

][cEMAN**

I'm sorry if you're having problems keeping up.

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

It really isn't that difficult to understand, is it? I am not sure if it is possible to simplify it any further for those finding it hard to contemplate.

Well, I could, but I don't like dumbing things down.

And your comments implied I lack intelligence and the ability to understand you.

But if you don't know how......*sniff*.....UGH, i'm not going to tell you...

Kirby

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Just because one game can be addictive, doesn't mean all games are addictive.

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

Everything has the potential to be addictive.

Perhaps you should decide what your viewpoint is before you write a post..... ya know, the left hand talking to the right hand and all.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Kirby wrote: »

Perhaps you should decide what your viewpoint is before you write a post..... ya know, the left hand talking to the right hand and all.

You also lack the ability to understand...? :rolleyes:

Not all games would be considered addictive, generaly speaking, but everything can be addictive to some extent.

WoW is classed as an addictive game, highely addictive, some countries ban the "recruit a friend" option.

Other games are not considered to be addictive. Ones which have an ending, game over, etc etc. Yet somebody may get addicted to this game and play it over and over again.

Can you understand that?

smithcity

So much anger, so much bickering.
Joe Duffy was right all along, WoW will destroy us all...
Nothing I can do now...
No escape...
Unless. Unless, maybe...
Yes, that's it!!! I must burn my laptop, mine and any other I see running WoW, it's the only way to save mankind.

This is my "inconvenient truth."

Ivan

Keanu Curved Mace wrote: »

You also lack the ability to understand...? :rolleyes:

Not all games would be considered addictive, generaly speaking, but everything can be addictive to some extent.

WoW is classed as an addictive game, highely addictive, some countries ban the "recruit a friend" option.

Other games are not considered to be addictive. Ones which have an ending, game over, etc etc. Yet somebody may get addicted to this game and play it over and over again.

Can you understand that?

Express your opinion, and debate other people's opinions. But continue with the passive-aggressive nature that you have done with every other post on these forums and you'll be taking a 3-day holiday. You've already received an infraction regarding this very same thing.

Naturally, this goes for everybody but you've already received a warning for this and seem to have waded into this thread and turned an otherwise harmless debate into your very own "look at me I'm smarter than everyone else" thread.

AaronFitz

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;61098718']You're still fixating on 1 point here. You're concentrating solely on wow and forgetting that people go away on holidays and let their kids die.

Excuse me but if you cannot spot the diffrence between an accidental death due to falling into a pool etc etc (I'm not putting words in your mouth just stating one of the most common ways one would assume a child dies on holiday) from death due to neglect then your priorties are just wrong on this topic. How the hell can you say these two scenarios are in any way alike? It's like comparing being hit by a car to starving to death or being as malnurioushed as a child born into poverty. Dieing from neglect is not an accident. Dont try as justify it as one. To put it into more understandable termanology to cater for the 1337, bad parents are bad.

At the end of the day it's the parents responsablity to control their child and cater to their need's, this imo also rules on control their habits including gaming. WoW is mentaly addictive, there are countless source's for this absoultly countless... Google WoW addiction, the evidence is infront of you and personally I know I was addicted to WoW, there were stages a few years ago where I would play 8 hours + a day, and not only me, a hell of alot of people do that, if you cant see thats an addiction then clearly your an addict and in denial, I have NP what so ever admiting I was extreamly addicted to WoW, dependant no, but my mood altered if there was a reason I could not play it, that to me was enough to make me take a step back and thankfully I got out of that yet I still have NP admitting I am still a mild addict.

Now I'm not saying " FFS admit your an addict to opress your demons etc etc" I'm just stating I was one, a bad one, and so are alot of people but do you know what, if your not one (this is aimed at everyone who believes they are not an addict) then fair play, I respect your strong will power and stance on the argument.

smithcity

Let's just backtrack a little, (6 or 7 pages or so).
This whole arguement arose from an ignorant woman phoning Joe Duffy to complain that WoW had become an addiction for her kids and had turned them into brainwashed monsters.
This wonderful mother formed that opinion after watching an episode of Dr. Phil that tackled the difficult issue of people with hobbies that seemed odd to most people. (That was stated at the beginning)

Well, loathe as I am to admit it, I saw that particular episode of Dr. Phil (ironically enough, because my girlfriend is addicted to trashy morning TV like Dr. Phil, Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and other such inane filth).

Dr. Phil's opinion was that these things are not addictions, they are hobbies.
If kids are spending countless hours playing WoW, impersonating Elvis, trying to moonwalk or trying to become the greatest Pokémaster of them all, it's not because they have an addiction!
It's because they are undisciplined.
Parent's are supposed to say "No" when they think their children are spending too much time on a particular hobby.

My opinion is simple enough:
Sitting back and phoning Joe Duffy is not good parenting, it's laziness.
If your kids cant take No for an answer, the reason is simple.
It's not because of an evil game.
It's not because of eminem, slipknot or marilyn manson,
it's not because they have been brainwashed...
It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

It's pointless argueing that a game is at fault in any way.
The fault lies solely with the inattentiveness of the parents.

I'm glad I could clear this up,
donations can be made to Dr. Adam.
Contact details to follow.

P.S. For those of you that think games are addictive. Yes, they can be. However, it's a parents responsibilty to monitor their children, see what they're doing and limit how much they play a game.
For adults, if you don't have the self discipline required to avoid spending all day, every day, on your ass watching TV, trying to crack the latest Sudoku, or playing WoW, that's you're own problem! Don't lumber the rest of us gamers with your stigma.
Blame your problems on yourself, not the game!

For instance, I love cigarettes. They're nice. But I don't smoke them anymore because I know I was addicted and they would eventually kill me off.

elexes

if the social aspect of this game wasnt there i would not be playing it.

AaronFitz

smithcity wrote: »

Let's just backtrack a little, (6 or 7 pages or so).
This whole arguement arose from an ignorant woman phoning Joe Duffy to complain that WoW had become an addiction for her kids and had turned them into brainwashed monsters.
This wonderful mother formed that opinion after watching an episode of Dr. Phil that tackled the difficult issue of people with hobbies that seemed odd to most people. (That was stated at the beginning)

Well, loathe as I am to admit it, I saw that particular episode of Dr. Phil (ironically enough, because my girlfriend is addicted to trashy morning TV like Dr. Phil, Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and other such inane filth).

Dr. Phil's opinion was that these things are not addictions, they are hobbies.
If kids are spending countless hours playing WoW, impersonating Elvis, trying to moonwalk or trying to become the greatest Pokémaster of them all, it's not because they have an addiction!
It's because they are undisciplined.
Parent's are supposed to say "No" when they think their children are spending too much time on a particular hobby.

My opinion is simple enough:
Sitting back and phoning Joe Duffy is not good parenting, it's laziness.
If your kids cant take No for an answer, the reason is simple.
It's not because of an evil game.
It's not because of eminem, slipknot or marilyn manson,
it's not because they have been brainwashed...
It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

It's pointless argueing that a game is at fault in any way.
The fault lies solely with the inattentiveness of the parents.

I'm glad I could clear this up,
donations can be made to Dr. Adam.
Contact details to follow.

P.S. For those of you that think games are addictive. Yes, they can be. However, it's a parents responsibilty to monitor their children, see what they're doing and limit how much they play a game.
For adults, if you don't have the self discipline required to avoid spending all day, every day, on your ass watching TV, trying to crack the latest Sudoku, or playing WoW, that's you're own problem! Don't lumber the rest of us gamers with your stigma.
Blame your problems on yourself, not the game!

For instance, I love cigarettes. They're nice. But I don't smoke them anymore because I know I was addicted and they would eventually kill me off.

Some nice points but addiction is not just about kid's so your point is moot, yes this topic is about the radio show which was based on kid's but the debate has moved on to more of a "Is WoW addictive?" and people trying to say it's not / is, your point holds until you bring adults into the equation who also play for stupid amounts of time, I know a few people on my server, even in my guild who are pushing 45 with kids who play with them and spend just as much time as I used play on it.... Here's where your post fails as not all people who play, e.g me are reliant on their parent to supply the game.

It's simply because those kids are not accustomed to being denied something, to not getting their own way, to having limits.
In short, they are spoiled.

How can the owner of the household or the individual justify it when their limits are what they set them to be? There are no limits when your incontrol of them, cause when your an addict you wont believe there are limits.

smithcity

Ivan wrote: »

With all due respect, using your mildly autistic brother as an example of how pc games/WoW is addictive is completely biased at the very least. If he read a book for that time, would he be addicted to books? An addiction implies a physical need. I dont see how you can be physically addicted to a pc game. You can enjoy it immensely, and throw a hissy fit until your parents comply and let you play it - but addicted you aint.

As for the rest of your post, that just seems to counter your original argument.
Furthermore, if parents took an interest in their child and played with them or took a hand in their entertainment - then kids might not be so ready to go spend 4-5 hours playing a PC game to keep entertained. It's the responsibility and the fault of the parent, for leaving their child to be babysat by their computer, not the fault of the developers because their game is so damn addictive/evil...

Just going over the older posts on this thread.
With all respect Ivan, you're not really in any position to offer an opinion on Aaron's brother, he is speaking from first-hand experience and that trumps all.

I have a cousin with mild autism and I can say that what Aaron described is pretty typical, it's not an attack on WoW, gamers, or anything else.
He just described something totally relevant, in that some people, especially those with conditions such as autism, can become fixated on a certain thing. It won't necessarily be a game. It could be a book, a film, an idea, or something he or she overheard somewhere.

It's unfair to go on the offense on the basis of that post, because everything he said was well founded and unbiased.

smithcity

AaronFitz wrote: »

How can the owner of the household or the individual justify it when their limits are what they set them to be? There are no limits when your incontrol of them, cause when your an addict you wont believe there are limits.

Not trying to be a smartarse, just asking for clarification...
Do you mean, how is a parent supposed to say "that's enough WoW for now" when they are playing more than that themselves?

If that's what you are saying then, yes it's a good point, although extreme.

There's no easy answer, all I can say is that in such a situation, it's a terrible shame that an adult can't tell where to draw the line.

I would still hold that it's not the game that is the problem, it is the personality of the gamer in question.

I am one of those people that can't abandon a problem until it is solved. However, when it is a problem such as a quest or mission in a game, I know that it's not really important, it's just a game.

AaronFitz

What I am saying is, what occurs when lets say an adult who lets for example say is 38, single, living in a flat on their own goes out and buys the game, enjoys it immensly and has the free time to warrent playing at least 8-10 hours of lets just say 4 days a week? Adults are just as easy to drag into WoW as a child once you let it catch a hold of you. (They got Ozzy to do an add for a reason, alot of people from that era will find that add appealing even though half of them dont even know what an MMO is, but some will, and some will try it and some will get attached to the game just as a "Spoiled kid" would but they are not spoilted due to the fact they control their own life, they decide when enough is enough, but what if enough is clearly to much?

smithcity

Ivan wrote: »

I also really, really enjoy having sex. So much so that I would neglect anything else in my life, to secure it... does that make me an addict?

You're soooo cool! None of us other gamers have had sex, what's it like?

We're all just like that fat guy in the south park episode "Make love, not warcraft." Stuck in a chair, in front of a rig with nothing but Dorito's to make us feel good.

Wow, sex, amazing.
Good for you pal.

AaronFitz

Also I compleatly agree that it is a terrible thing when an adult cannot define where the line is, but it happens all the time, addiction is not limited to youngsters / teen's, its peer presure that gets less with age not the effect something has on your mind. I am personally 20 years old, I doubt I will ever stop enjoying gaming, even when I'm old, if I have time to warrent I will play WoW, but thanks to an earlier experiance and realisation of addiction I now know that other things should get priorty but jesus man it took a fook load of effort for me to overcome that it really did. Not trying to warrent sympathy here, just stating that it took the loss of many grade's threats of being throwen out of home, my girlfirend at the time, it took all that for realisation, you could of called it the addicts rock bottom of gaming and TBH if i had none of those factors in my life (parents, girlfriend, grades) i.e if I picked up WoW now I would be in the stage I was about 2.5 years ago... Luckly hitting the peak of my addiction with those factors around me made me learn to control it, and just live first then live second, and if you have zilch to do then consider playing WoW

smithcity

AaronFitz wrote: »

What I am saying is, what occurs when lets say an adult who lets for example say is 38, single, living in a flat on their own goes out and buys the game, enjoys it immensly and has the free time to warrent playing at least 8-10 hours of lets just say 4 days a week? Adults are just as easy to drag into WoW as a child once you let it catch a hold of you. (They got Ozzy to do an add for a reason, alot of people from that era will find that add appealing even though half of them dont even know what an MMO is, but some will, and some will try it and some will get attached to the game just as a "Spoiled kid" would but they are not spoilted due to the fact they control their own life, they decide when enough is enough, but what if enough is clearly to much?

Again, I reckon the case you are describing is kind of extreme. A guy, near 40, living in a flat alone, his only joy is WoW.
In that case, he should just go for it. If he hasn't got anything else in his life, then playing lots and lots of WoW won't disrupt anything else.

Also, Ozzy, an ex-heroine addict, I'm not sure. Does he support or detract from your arguement...?
That's a question for a philosopher.

smithcity

AaronFitz wrote: »

Also I compleatly agree that it is a terrible thing when an adult cannot define where the line is, but it happens all the time, addiction is not limited to youngsters / teen's, its peer presure that gets less with age not the effect something has on your mind. I am personally 20 years old, I doubt I will ever stop enjoying gaming, even when I'm old, if I have time to warrent I will play WoW, but thanks to an earlier experiance and realisation of addiction I now know that other things should get priorty but jesus man it took a fook load of effort for me to overcome that it really did. Not trying to warrent sympathy here, just stating that it took the loss of many grade's threats of being throwen out of home, my girlfirend at the time, it took all that for realisation, you could of called it the addicts rock bottom of gaming and TBH if i had none of those factors in my life (parents, girlfriend, grades) i.e if I picked up WoW now I would be in the stage I was about 2.5 years ago...

I'm not trying to go on the offense here, but from what you describe I would say your case is pretty extreme. I think that it suggests your case is that of someone with a personality that can become addicted to such things, that doesn't necessarily mean that the game itself is at fault.


I say "extreme" a lot in these posts.

AaronFitz

But thats the thing, I dont have an addictive personality, I'v smoked cig's and its greener friend and enjoyed it, I still do but rarely cause it just was not me, alcohol is the same I drink, but I never binged, never would never will, I go out 2x a week mostly but sometimes I dont even drink. I blame it more so on my guild TBH, at the time we were heavy progression, I not only felt the need to play other people were relying on my appearence also, and these people were all just like me. I cannot describe it tbh but the good part is that thank god I burned out early cause if I dident I would not of beaten it

AaronFitz

Which bring's me to my point, if it can happen to me, your average normal everyday guy, ladyloving, drink enjoying lad who got a 425 in his leaving and is doing biochem in collage, what the hell is stopping it from happening to anyone.... Hence why I feel so strongly on the topic, I believe it is addictive, but now that I learnt how it is also easy to control.

(Edit) Yes I am well awear what your doing in life does not effect how you cope with diffrent situations however I would consider myself mentally capable and more aware than some guy who is living on the streets to deal with an addiction, to my dismay I'm not and I think this goes for a huge majority of people, you may think your more able but everyone is at = risk when it comes to addiction imo....

smithcity

TheDoc wrote: »

Matt Coopers research team have me as a contact for gaming,airsoft and few other things. They did a piece on Wrath of the lich king when it came out and was much more informative, factual and focused solely on the game and how its popularity. A show like Matt Cooper is usually more factual, yes less dramatic, but a show listened to by the educated populace.

Still catching up on the older posts, well said Doc. Matt Cooper should have got the Late, Late Show.
Also he should be Taoiseach.
Also, I kinda, sorta wish he was my Dad.

If everyone listened to him, and read the Irish Times, this country would rule the world.

smithcity

AaronFitz wrote: »

Which bring's me to my point, if it can happen to me, your average normal everyday guy, ladyloving, drink enjoying lad who got a 425 in his leaving and is doing biochem in collage, what the hell is stopping it from happening to anyone.... Hence why I feel so strongly on the topic, I believe it is addictive, but now that I learnt how it is also easy to control.

I'M DOING BIOCHEM TOO!!! Freaky.
Well, assuming everything you've said is true. I'm stumped.
If I have a game I'm really into, it's no problem to skip it for a few days or weeks. However, if I had a bit of tobacco's greener friend sitting in my drawer, I wouldn't have the willpower to leave it alone till it was all gone ( though I must stress that doesn't mean I head out and buy more! haven't done that in a long, long time).

Apart from the point that me smoking never became an issue with friends, family, or girlfriends, it's a similar compulsion to what you had with WoW.

I wouldn't consider myself addicted to the green, but I'll admit I binge.

Do you reckon if you had a months subscription to WoW, you'd hit it hard, then not bother re-subscribing? I suppose you could call that a binge.
If you had to immediately buy another month, it's fair to say addiction.

AaronFitz

smithcity wrote: »

Also, Ozzy, an ex-heroine addict, I'm not sure. Does he support or detract from your arguement...?
That's a question for a philosopher.

This is Signature quality, kudo's to you my friend