Hotel turned into bedsits

lostexpectation

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2009/0709/1224250305547.html

Double bedrooms are now being rented out at €575-€600 each per month. So far, over 50 rooms have been let, according to a property source, who says that they’ve been converted to bedsits through the addition of a kettle and a microwave.

is this even legal, i know on the face of it a hotel room sounds better then most bedsits, but there's no separate kitchen sink. that gotta be illegal, if its not it should be.

you don't need a kitchen sink if your staying a few days or week but long term living you do.

daft are advertising these continuing their tradition of advertising inhuman flats

Victor

It may constitute change of use. It would be interesting to see what the councils have to say.

Mac daddy

here's the so called "studio" apartment's

http://www.coldwellbanker.ie/showProperty.aspx?id=443432

Senna

Big developer probably trying to make some money to at least pay the interest on his loans, i think they'll turn a blind eye to it, better off on the developers back than our own (NAMA).
Not saying it right.

Jimbo

It's got to be a violation of planning.

There is a distinct difference between a hotel and a long term let bedsit block.

gurramok

Its a grey area alright, maybe the occupants just have to eat out or microwave their meals :P

Liam Carroll tried this at The Gasworks for students or was it a hotel(more likely student digs i think is latest).

Anyway, that means 134 beds extra on the Tallaght market.

Hate to say it but 575 seems quite ok for the following:

THE MONTHLY WILL RENT INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING BILLS

1.Heating
2.Hot water
3.Electricity
4.LCD TV including basic Channels
5.TV Licence
6.Disposal of Garbage
7. Parking from 6pm to 10am

Why do the media call them bedsits when bedsits are illegal?

Senna

7. Parking from 6pm to 10am

?

Is it still being run as a hotel also? conferences, meetings, weddings etc etc?

lostexpectation

gurramok wrote: »

Its a grey area alright, maybe the occupants just have to eat out or microwave their meals :P

Liam Carroll tried this at The Gasworks for students or was it a hotel(more likely student digs i think is latest).

Anyway, that means 134 beds extra on the Tallaght market.

Hate to say it but 575 seems quite ok for the following:

no it doesn't, no kitchen sink

the gas work were apartments changed to a hotel, or student accommodation they had kitchens thats the difference.



still no housing standards enforcement in ireland.
it shouldn't require a complaint, the authorities should out looking for subhuman living conditions, not having place to prepare and _cook_ your own food is subhuman.

i don't care how fancy the room is i doubt sharing the hotel kitchens between a hundred would work...

Why do the media call them bedsits when bedsits are illegal?

need to ask daft that question too?

subway

do hotel rooms have running drinking water?
i've never stayed in one that did

Grawns

people are going to end up starting fires in their rooms with camping cookers, the whole thing is mental :eek:

Eglinton

subway wrote: »

do hotel rooms have running drinking water?
i've never stayed in one that did

Good point. I'm sure the water is 'drinkable' but it's most likely from a tank rather than a direct fresh supply. Could certainly be a health issue in the longer term if the tanks are not maintained.

7. Parking from 6pm to 10am

Whare are you supposed to park the rest of the time!


I agree with a lot of the points made so far. On the one hand, it is a way for Developers to at least try and start paying off some of what they owe (although it won't make much of a dent to be honest)

On the other hand, they're doing this with what really should be considered substandard accomodation packaged to look pretty with a bow on top.

This type of accomodation is only suitable for short term or short-medium terms (a month or two). Living in this type of accomodation isolates people, can creates social problems (as if Tallaght need more!) and is most likely illegal or at the fringes of the law.

But I don't expect the authorities to do anything substantial about it these days.

Ste.phen

You can probably still park there but have to pay during daytime hours?

weird

As a single man, this doesn't look like such a bad deal, especially if I can get in without a deposit... are the rooms cleaned daily I wonder? Is there internet access like you'd find in a hotel? If yes, I'd go for it.

I will say this much, you can get a room in a nice flat in Dublin City centre now for €600 per month, so this isn't a huge value for money considering there are no kitchens.

I could see this as turning into a haven for neer-do-wells like prostitues and drug dealers should it be ran without security or management on-site.

Eglinton

weird wrote: »

I could see this as turning into a haven for neer-do-wells like prostitues and drug dealers should it be ran without security or management on-site.

Indeed. That is highly likely. It's a motel style situation I suppose and we know what they're like in the States.

havana

It's a nice hotel. I stayed there for a week last year. But as i said It's a nice hotel. By weeks end i was going stir crazy. There is a hotel beside it that also does apartments but afaik there were whole floors given over to proper apartments. The rooms are fairly standard hotel rooms, at least mine was. No extra space to add in any sort of kitchen space and the wardrobe was tiny. Maybe they have redesigned them but really there's not much space, you'd have to be pretty creative.

ionapaul

At least in proper motels you have free parking 24 / 7! I think this is a terrible deal at €575 / mo, the lack of a kitchen and 24 hour parking completely negates the idea that the room can be considered an apartment share replacement. Why stay here when you can rent an ensuite double room in a proper shared apartment in D2 / D4 / D6 for €500?

Can't see this having much uptake.

oceanclub

weird wrote: »

I could see this as turning into a haven for neer-do-wells like prostitues and drug dealers

Jaysus, don't give Liam Carroll any ideas; he'll start marketing that as a plus.

P.

Victor

Senna wrote: »

Is it still being run as a hotel also? conferences, meetings, weddings etc etc?

No, the hotel is closed.

subway wrote: »

do hotel rooms have running drinking water? i've never stayed in one that did

Generally no as they generally don't have sinks.

Eglinton wrote: »

Good point. I'm sure the water is 'drinkable' but it's most likely from a tank rather than a direct fresh supply. Could certainly be a health issue in the longer term if the tanks are not maintained.

You can get tanks designed to hold fresh water, which I imagine would be obligatory for a hotel.

Whare are you supposed to park the rest of the time!

Basement car aprk is a Luas Park & Ride, so either pay €4 to park for the day and use Luas OR pay €50 OR move the car.

weird wrote: »

As a single man, this doesn't look like such a bad deal, especially if I can get in without a deposit...

I wonder about that.

are the rooms cleaned daily I wonder?

where do you think you are living? A hotel? :pac:

Is there internet access like you'd find in a hotel? If yes, I'd go for it.

Good point, but I suspect not.

ztoical

When I started college in New York one of the dorms for the school was a hotel they'd taken over a few floors from. It was pretty nice, got a single room to myself with my own bathroom, fridge, bed, dresser and desk plus high speed Internet and cable tv for $800 a month in the center of Manhattan, was pretty nice. Not sure if anyone whose not a student would want that but I liked it.

lostexpectation

and where did you eat? and drink?

which councillor lives closest to those hotels?

Jo King

Was there any planning application for a change of use?

antoinolachtnai

It is easy to poke holes in this.

However, you have to look at the positive sides of what is being done. The guy is making accommodation available on the market for people who have a tough time finding accommodation. Not everybody wants to share a house or flat. There are lots of reasons for this.

The alternative for the owner is to just leave the whole block empty. How is that beneficial for anybody?

Maybe the price is right, maybe it is wrong. I am sure that will sort itself out.

It is ridiculous to say that it is going to turn into a slum of prostitutes and drug dealers. It needs management, for sure. But so does any accommodation of any type.

It's not perfect accommodation. The way it has been set up is not perfect. However, it might help an awful lot of people.

BendiBus

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is easy to poke holes in this.

However, you have to look at the positive sides of what is being done. The guy is making accommodation available on the market for people who have a tough time finding accommodation. Not everybody wants to share a house or flat. There are lots of reasons for this.

The alternative for the owner is to just leave the whole block empty. How is that beneficial for anybody?

Maybe the price is right, maybe it is wrong. I am sure that will sort itself out.

It is ridiculous to say that it is going to turn into a slum of prostitutes and drug dealers. It needs management, for sure. But so does any accommodation of any type.

It's not perfect accommodation. The way it has been set up is not perfect. However, it might help an awful lot of people.

No problem agreeing with the above provided planning laws are complied with.

Although I'd consider it a dead cert that a number of rooms will end up accommodating hookers. Maybe all the single men renting the other rooms would appreciate the convenience of such a service

antoinolachtnai

Do you consider it a dead cert that a number of apartments in every apartment dwelling will end up accommodating hookers? What about the four-star hotels of the city? Do you think they have prostitutes working them?

Do you think that men who don't live in houses or apartments are more likely than others to frequent prostitutes?

I can't see what the planning issue is. What is wrong with renting hotel rooms by the month?

Victor

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

What is wrong with renting hotel rooms by the month?

Nothing really, provided you are running a hotel, that provides things like drinking water and cooking facilities.

antoinolachtnai

I am sure they are providing drinking water. If you have kettles in rooms (as most modern hotels do) you have to have drinking water somewhere.

They have a microwave according to the spin. It's not great, but it's a cooking facility. I wonder do they have a fridge? That would be essential.

lostexpectation

i guess it more like a motel then anything, just from movies and tv it seems people live in them long term in the states and they just eat out or get take in, but its hardly healthy nor acceptable standard long term.

is the tallaght cross hotel and the glaushaus and the tallaght west hotel

http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id]=ga5&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=&s[bd_no]=0&refine=Refine&search=1&s[search_type]=rental&s[furn]=&s[refreshmap]=1&search_type=rental

they say 'mircowave grill' so i guess you can cook with those, yes maybe the bathroom water is drinkable but can't be using both for bathroom and cooking.

jmayo

weird wrote: »

As a single man, this doesn't look like such a bad deal, especially if I can get in without a deposit... are the rooms cleaned daily I wonder? Is there internet access like you'd find in a hotel? If yes, I'd go for it.
...
I could see this as turning into a haven for neer-do-wells like prostitues and drug dealers should it be ran without security or management on-site.

You don't have a kitchen of any kind.
It is not even meeting the definition of what was a basic bedsit.
And you have to pay for parking during day.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is easy to poke holes in this.

However, you have to look at the positive sides of what is being done. The guy is making accommodation available on the market for people who have a tough time finding accommodation. Not everybody wants to share a house or flat. There are lots of reasons for this.

The alternative for the owner is to just leave the whole block empty. How is that beneficial for anybody?

Ah bless, the developers are just trying to help people :rolleyes:

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Do you consider it a dead cert that a number of apartments in every apartment dwelling will end up accommodating hookers? What about the four-star hotels of the city? Do you think they have prostitutes working them?

Do you think that men who don't live in houses or apartments are more likely than others to frequent prostitutes?

I can't see what the planning issue is. What is wrong with renting hotel rooms by the month?

Ehhhh you are not renting a hotel room which gives you services, you are renting a room masquerading as a bedsit, or according to the add linked to, a Luxury Apartement.
FFS do the level of BS coming out of EAs and rental agencies in this country know no bounds.
Perhaps next we will find warehouses and some of the many empty units in retail parks being offered as luxury apartment living, except this time you don't even get a window. :rolleyes:

shoegirl

To be honest there is far worse quality accomodation on the market up and down the country than this. Sounds like the SRO "hotels" in the US which generally do become run down eventually.

I suspect, however, that the rent being pitched is specifically to exclude rent allowance (the Daft ad also says RA not accepted) so this would cut out a fair percentage of neer-do-wells (sorry to "pick on" RA tenants but in my long 10 year plus experience of living in mostly victorian conversions there is a disproportionate representation of RA amongst bad tenants). They're basically designed for short to medium lets I suspect - would be hard to maintain otherwise, but actually not a bad idea.

Why not go the whole hog though and convert a couple of rooms into shared kitchens? It would seem like very much a short term solution to me, but not a bad one considering how much far more substandard accomodation is out there.

antoinolachtnai

would certainly require planning permission to do that.

Thinking more broadly, there is this model of accommodation for young people who have difficulty finding a place of their own: http://www.foyer.net/level2.asp?level2id=7

This might fit in well as a use for a hotel that is no longer commercially viable.

There was a planning application for a foyer on Fenian St. many years ago.

I wouldn't live there, but loads of people just don't cook at home, ever. I lived with a guy who never set foot in the kitchen and didn't have a press for food as he never bought any, not even teabags. He'd just go out and get whatever he wanted. This would be a better deal for him than paying 600 to share with 2 others plus bills. It's quite common in NYC for people to never cook at home - I sublet one of those hotel rooms turned into bedsits and it was nice. The girl who lived there said it wasn't a problem for her not having a kitchen as long as she had a kettle and microwave. I couldn't do it but if you never cook, I don't see a big problem.

snubbleste

New rented properties - From 1 February 2009, a landlord must:

Ensure that the house is essentially sound with roof, floors, ceilings, walls and stairs in good repair and not subject to serious dampness or rotting
Provide a sink with hot and cold water
Provide a separate ventilated room with a bath or shower and toilet
Provide heating appliances for every room lived in
Provide facilities for installation of cooking equipment and facilities for the hygienic storage of food, for example, a 4 ring hob with oven and grill, fridge-freezer and microwave oven
Provide clothes washing facilities
Provide clothes drying facilities if there isn’t a garden or a yard
Ensure that electricity or gas supplies are in good repair and safe
Ensure that every room has adequate ventilation and both natural and artificial lighting
Provide a fire blanket and fire alarms
Provide access to vermin and pest proof refuse storage facilities.

Can anyone confirm that these bedsits will have these points above?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/repairs-maintenance-and-minimum-physical-standards

NewFrockTuesday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8137746.stm

Ayh, I agree with the potential for divilment aspect. Its big in Japan :pac:

syklops

ztoical wrote: »

When I started college in New York one of the dorms for the school was a hotel they'd taken over a few floors from. It was pretty nice, got a single room to myself with my own bathroom, fridge, bed, dresser and desk plus high speed Internet and cable tv for $800 a month in the center of Manhattan, was pretty nice. Not sure if anyone whose not a student would want that but I liked it.

Well it would be fine if you were in the centre of Manhattan. Ever see the movie Super Size Me? They have something like 40 Mcdonalds outlets in Manhattan and about 10 of every other food vendor you could want from Subway, Wendy's. Starbucks, you name it they got it. You are never more than a 10 minute walk from a subway that will take you anywhere on the island you want to go, plus you have a hotdog/coffee vendor on every corner, so its no biggie if you have no way of making or storing food in your hotel room/bedsit, but this looks like an irish take on what they CAN do in the states because they have the infrastructure.

Also, at 575 a month, I would consider that expensive for a bedsit, particularly for Tallaght. Last I looked you could get a small flat in Ranelagh for that - with a kitchen.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

Can anyone confirm that these bedsits will have these points above?

The only thing from that list not mentioned in the article is the fridge (ok: facilites for hygenic storage of food) - and it may well be that the rooms had one already.

Most Irish homes have the washing machine in the kitchen, with the accompanying assumption that you are using the kitchen sink for any hand-washing that's required. I can't see that this is any more wrong than using the bathroom sink for water (assuming it's drinking-standard: and I'd expect it would be in a hotel where guests don't have other access to drinking water).

These bedsits are a lot better than many which exist in heritage buildings around the country, and still have shared bathrooms in the hallway. Just 'cos it's law doesn't mean that these will magically go away!

I'd be more concerned about whether there are enough social/recreational facilities in the local area to provide for the fact that residents will need to do almost all of their socialising out of their homes.

lostexpectation

you need a kitchen and enforced standards to socially nudge people from eating take out all the time and socially nudge them towards cooking their own food, i doubt if you had to get a bedsit that you could afford to eat out well in irealnd.

i emailed a councillor he said he'd already raised concerns with the county manager.

lostexpectation

JustMary wrote: »

The only thing from that list not mentioned in the article is the fridge (ok: facilites for hygenic storage of food) - and it may well be that the rooms had one already.

Most Irish homes have the washing machine in the kitchen, with the accompanying assumption that you are using the kitchen sink for any hand-washing that's required. I can't see that this is any more wrong than using the bathroom sink for water (assuming it's drinking-standard: and I'd expect it would be in a hotel where guests don't have other access to drinking water).

Provide a sink with hot and cold water
Provide a separate ventilated room with a bath or shower and toilet

these are two separate things, i do see something wrong with only having one sink/water it called hygiene.

people happy to have low standards here.

Outkast_IRE

Well actually Hotel room sinks would often have mains fresh water to the basin, because it would be quite common for a guest to want a drink in the middle of the night so this is defo done in some hotels

JupiterKid

This place really does not meet the criteria for proper bedsits. It stinks of the developer trying to make a quick buck on a failed hotel development.

It was ridiculous of SDCC to give permission for two hotels in the first instance.

oceanclub

When Liam Carroll's property empire falls (it's a matter of when rather than if), what happens to these properties? Will the banks will take them over, and keep them running as rentals?

P.

lostexpectation

reply from daft

We have looked into this issue for you.
Unfortunately the legal requirements regarding bedsits has not been updated yet and these properties are considered legitimate because the provide cooking equipment and facilities in lieu of a kitchen.

Unfortunately, why is it unfortunate if there nothing wrong with it?, and does daft operate on 'what ye can get a way with' standards?

one of the ads does say you get fridge too though.

it be wonder they didn't use them for summer foreign students etc like dcu does with its rooms

antoinolachtnai

What exactly is wrong with this? If people want to rent it, why stop them?

oceanclub

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with this? If people want to rent it, why stop them?

Exactly. God forbid we should have anything like living standards. I mean, for example, if poor immigrants _want_ to live in a house with a leaking roof and no toilet, we should let them. It's the free market way.

P.

lostexpectation

Sex and the City flats for singles stay empty in planning wrangle

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/sex-and-the-city-flats-for-singles-stay-empty-in-planning-wrangle-1832468.html

how did the council let this happen? without checking it out fully.

oceanclub

lostexpectation wrote: »

Sex and the City flats for singles stay empty in planning wrangle

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/sex-and-the-city-flats-for-singles-stay-empty-in-planning-wrangle-1832468.html

how did the council let this happen? without checking it out fully.

What do you mean by the council "let this happen"? From what I can see, it's Carroll's fault for not looking for the proper permission. The council are following correct procedures.

P.

lostexpectation

oceanclub wrote: »

What do you mean by the council "let this happen"? From what I can see, it's Carroll's fault for not looking for the proper permission. The council are following correct procedures.

P.

in general i think the council and housing standards people should be more proactive and be on the look out for such things.

antoinolachtnai

oceanclub wrote: »

Exactly. God forbid we should have anything like living standards. I mean, for example, if poor immigrants _want_ to live in a house with a leaking roof and no toilet, we should let them. It's the free market way.

Who said anything about poor immigrants, houses with leaking roofs and no toilets? None of those have anything to do with what we are talking about. So far as we know, these rooms do have toilets, and the roof does not leak.

el diablo

edit: link already posted.

antoinolachtnai

I don't think it quite says that. It says that no change of use was applied for, which is (slightly) different.

el diablo

So what's the difference between Tallaght Cross and the Glashaus Apartments (which is also a converted hotel) nearly? I'm sure they have pretty much the same facilities.

lostexpectation

el diablo wrote: »

So what's the difference between Tallaght Cross and the Glashaus Apartments (which is also a converted hotel) nearly? I'm sure they have pretty much the same facilities.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21191

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23346&start=45

property pins mentions an ad which mentions communal kitchen in the glauhaus but that ad is gone

http://www.daft.ie/2712321

a communal kitchen for all 50?

and read about his Augustine st building change from apartments to stag hotel.

if its closed down on planning grounds i'll take that.