Last date for importing ?

bullets

Is the Last Date allowing us to import AEG/GBB's upon us already?

~B

TheDoc

Not that I know of, is there actually any indication when this bill will become law?

I was under the impression it would be Winter time at the earliest..

Puding

i was under the impression that the bill completion date was being driven by the pistol license renewal date?

an issue is that even when the bill is in place i believe the small print may not be done so more waiting and seeing

i would want to make shore anything you want to order is with you well before the date just in case, also you might not be able to say , well the order was placed before the date, if it gets held up for any reason

bullets

Thought it was already voted on in the Dail and sent up to McAleese for signing.
as in this month of July ?

But not sure who is going to announce an official "you cant buy anything outside of Ireland" date yet and what you can and cant purchase with reagards to bodys/parts.

It will bring up all sorts of interesting stuff, Like for people who import
airsoft gear but dont read boards.ie or are not in the IAA etc
when will they find out? after something has been seized with no way of getting their money back.

And all those gadget and head shops that might have unsold stock, what
happens it, and will there be actually someone going around to shops enforcing
that they are not selling airsoft gear unless they are registered dealers and adhearing
to whatever standards are being set up.

The last few days I've been going nuts, I've got no money and have been eyeing
up stuff I wanted to buy from abroad in the future. If I'm forced to go through an Irish retailer I've no problems with that as long as the price is fair and not scandalous.

I'm beginning to wonder what Irish customers would consider fair or not when it comparing prices. where would the cut off point be where somebody would decide to say "Hold on a minute your screwing me here, and Im not buying it"

If something is gonna cost you 50 Euros more than it would if you were allowed import it most people may be happy and say...sure Irish shops have overheads, staff to pay, profit to make etc etc

But if stuff is gonna cost you 100-150 Euros more will people still say that? or will
they just go sorry, Nope aint buying what I want I will settle for something else.

Most Irish prices are fair for bog standard stuff.
Eg AUG's, M4's P90's work out roughly the same price as if you were to import or buy Irish. But there is other stuff that work out 85-150 Euro's more expensive. You wonder
where do you draw the line with the extra cost of buying Irish when the choice of
importing is taken away from you, 50, 100, 150, 200 Euros more?

~B

fayer

Hi Guy's,

The IAA is chasing implementation timelines for all the aspects of the bill. Enactment of the relevant sections will have to be carefully planned and timed so not to cause disruption to the supply of stock to Ireland, we will be working with the authorities to insure this go smoothly.

We will publish any and all information we get on this as soon as we receive it.

Regards
Steve

BornToKill

The Bill completed all stages in the Dáil on 2 July and the Seanad last Wednesday. It has to be sent to the President for signature so it will become an Act mid-July (unless it is referred to the Supreme Court for a ruling on constitutionality, which is unlikely).

Here is a link to the Bill and you can see all the amendments put down and the debates on it. Airsoft and paintball came in for several mentions in the Dáil report stage and Seanad committee.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=11787&&CatID=59

What happens next? Well, there has to be a commencement order signed by the Minister to give effect to the new rules. I can't say when exactly that will happen.

iceage

Reading....

Miscreant

Just read the bill here.
Am I right in thinking that this section on page 31 of the bill basically makes the selling of RIFs illegal unless you have a licence:

"9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement of
section 40 of the Criminal Justice
Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his possession
for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms."

Not one for legalese but just looks like that way to me.

iceage

Still reading......nothing has changed since the last proposals that I can see.


Ahhh BTK:rolleyes: Is this jusy a copy of the origanal draft? Where did you get this.

skapegoat

That does not look too good, what's the IAA's stance?
Are any of the Irish retailers registered yet?
Are airsoft devices really considered Imitation firearms or toys? Seen as they are under 1 jule.....(can of worms I know)
Also does this include cap gins etc sold in Irish toy stores?

Hum???

iceage

Hang on.....everyone relax.....Lets wait for the facts.

gerrowadat

The bill hasn't changed significantly from the initial draft as far as Airsoft is concerned. The only major thing to go in was tax clearance certificates for retailers, which they should have anyway.

We haven't been given a date for when the bill will be enacted (i.e. when you start having to actually obey it and need a license to trade). There are practicalities to do with licensing of RIF retailers that need to be worked out, and we'll keep you informed. Players don't need to do anything.

Miscreant : The important phrase there is "By way of trade or business". You won't be stopped from second-hand sales, it's only if you're going into business to sell RIF that you would need to be licensed.

skapegoat : If you check out our website at www.irishairsoft.ie, you'll see our position and our response to the bill. You'll also see that the DoJ asked us to draw up guidelines for retailers, and we're currently talking to them and senior Garda sources about venue regulations. We've produced a document called "Airsoft, the MPB and You", which you can read at http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/airsoft_the_mpb_and_you.pdf which may answer some of your questions.

To answer your question as to whether airsoft devices are RIF or toys, the answer is both. They're being called "Imitation Firearms" the same way that you say "Imitation (I can't believe it's not) Butter", that is to say that they're not firearms, they just look like them. There's no change in the legal definition of what a firearm is relating to power levels.

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

BornToKill

iceage wrote: »

Still reading......nothing has changed since the last proposals that I can see.

Ahhh BTK:rolleyes: Is this jusy a copy of the origanal draft? Where did you get this.

That oireachtas site is not great for navigation but it is good for tracing what happened from original draft bill, through amendments, to completion. I don't think there were any amendments even tabled on airsoft (or 'realistic imitation firearms' in the bill). The only part missing from the oireachtas site is the committee stage debate in the Seanad but you can see it here:

http://www.kildarestreet.com/sendebates/?id=2009-07-08.74.0

I'm sure it'll be on the oireachtas site early next week too. Airsoft and paintball came up a lot in the discussions on practical shooting but did not have amendments tabled on them in RIF section.

BornToKill

gerrowadat wrote: »

The only major thing to go in was tax clearance certificates for retailers, which they should have anyway.

We haven't been given a date for when the bill will be enacted (i.e. when you start having to actually obey it and need a license to trade).

Oops, yes that's right. There was a government amendment adding a requirement for a RIF retailer to have a tax clearance cert. Forgot that - thanks Dave.

The bill completed all stages last Wednesday and is very likley to be signed by the President in about a weeks time so it has been enacted. Commencement orders have to be signed by the Minister before specific sections take effect.

skapegoat

So an individual can still import an airsoft device,or part, for personel use as long as they are not selling them on as a buissnes or making money of repairs?

Will check the Iaa site in the morning.

gerrowadat

skapegoat wrote: »

So an individual can still import an airsoft device,or part, for personel use as long as they are not selling them on as a buissnes or making money of repairs?

Will check the Iaa site in the morning.

No, import of full RIF devices would be restricted to licensees.

Parts and accessories would not be affected.

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

bullets

gerrowadat wrote: »

No, import of full RIF devices would be restricted to licensees.

Is there a list of requirements as to what you need to do
to become a Licenced importer ?

If I create my own buisness name,
register it as a business,
and register to be a Licenced importer
I should be legally allowed to import for myself and friends.

is it a requirment to be a business in order to become
a Licenced importer ?


~B

kevteljeur

bullets wrote: »

Is there a list of requirements as to what you need to do
to become a Licenced importer ?

If I create my own buisness name,
register it as a business,
and register to be a Licenced importer
I should be legally allowed to import for myself and friends.

is it a requirment to be a business in order to become
a Licenced importer ?


~B

I think I actually suggested this to you in a previous thread (here's what you thought of that ) and I still think that it's not a bad idea. As long as you weren't directly competing with established dealers, you could quickly become the 'go to' guy for specialist kit. If you ran it as a club, then the subscriptions would cover your company running costs, accountancy, etc.



.

gerrowadat

bullets wrote: »

Is there a list of requirements as to what you need to do
to become a Licenced importer ?

If I create my own buisness name,
register it as a business,
and register to be a Licenced importer
I should be legally allowed to import for myself and friends.

is it a requirment to be a business in order to become
a Licenced importer ?


~B

The main requirements from the Bill would be the usual ones - don't have a firearms offence, don't be under 21, don't be of unsound mind.

The IAA submitted its proposals for retailer regulation (specifically the parts about premises not full outlines in the bill) last week -- you can see them on our front page or here : http://irishairsoft.ie/?p=846

Dave
IAA Vice-Chair

horgan_p

I can see your point completely about wanting to set up a business.

As someone who's been there and done it , my small piece of advice would be to speak with an accountant.

bullets

kevteljeur wrote: »

I think I actually suggested this to you in a previous thread (here's what you thought of that ) and I still think that it's not a bad idea.

Yep and my opinion has not changed I do not "want" to open a business too much hassle and I already have a job.
But if that would be the only way of being able to legally import stuff yourself it is one way of legally doing it.

my interests would not be in starting a business to make money, or to give up my current job which pays the bills,

My interests would solely be to be a privite importer,
where I can legally import my own Airsoft gear for myself,
and friends if they wanted something.

If I can do that by registering as an importer
and meet any Legal requirments that are needed that
would be great.

If that means I'm forced to register a businees to allow me legally to import my own stuff, then I could register
a business name as a formality and my place of business
as my home.

I dont believe that I need to have some retail unit in
some industrial estate someplace.

The suggestions submitted by the IAA I did not see any suggestions for someone
that would want to run a small business from home ?

If my Home has good enough construction, saftey & security to own
and store Real Firearms that I currently own, and If my Home is good enough to store all of my
existing Airsoft collection, My ammo in for form of BB's and my gas to power my GBB's there should be no issues
with storeing additional airsoft gear that I would import and delivered to me.


~B

Fallschirmjager

all totally logical bullets...which means in this country its completely unworkable....


on your thread topic however, reading what some are saying here...it looks to me as if the time window for legal importing has passed if people are talking mid july for the law...

zero19

Can anyone tell me if i can still buy used items from the uk from a private sale? I use arnies for sale thread alot, there does be some great bargains on it and stuff thats tough to find here. (interesting items like western arms pistols, tm uzis etc)

kdouglas

Within irish law at the moment? Yes

You'll have to check with someone who knows more about the uk VCRA regarding them sending it to you though.

Puding

i brought stuff before, its the same as uk stores, if the item is being shippied abroad the act does to apply as far as im awarre

zero19

I have bought used gear and aegs/gbbs lots of times from the uk before there's not been any ukara related issue once it's leaving the country, seems they're only too happy to get rid off rif devices over there as far as i can see, i just mean when this bill comes into play can i still buy from private individuals across the puddle?

Puding

when this bill comes into play can i still buy from private individuals across the puddle

i would say no as your importing the goods into ireland, from everything i;ve read does not matter if its from and uk shop or private sale from within the uk, beacuse your importing it it fall under the new bill and is not allowed

Evanokeeffe

Miscreant wrote: »

Just read the bill here.
Am I right in thinking that this section on page 31 of the bill basically makes the selling of RIFs illegal unless you have a licence:

"9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement of
section 40 of the Criminal Justice
Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his possession
for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms."

Not one for legalese but just looks like that way to me.

Hmm this will be a kick in the teeth to all the people in the adverts section of airsoft boards as now each person selling a gun will have to be registered and to those that can fix their own guns without the license can't do so legally
Funny that they haven't started thinking about the implications of people starting to use the M.A.C(Magnetic acceleration cannon) systems now.

deepimpact

Evan, read Gerrowadat's response to Miscreant's point.

If it is for profit, then a licence to trade is required. If it is for personal use/repair, then it's not covered by the legislation.

Firekitten

Oh noes, Airsoft am closing...

Tigger

i want to imp[ort some pom grenades
am i allowed?

wahmeister666

Can you still import AEG's or is that new law in now?

Gizmodeon

IASRA have recieved correspondance from the DOJ, and so far we have this information with regards the bill. We will however be meeting with them at the end of this month on the matter.

Just to keep you up to date. The part commencement of section 40 relates
to 9A and 9B.
Please find an update from the Chairman of the FCP below:-


“As you know the new system starts tomorrow on 1 August 2009.

The Garda Commissioner started issuing extension letters earlier this week
to all existing licence holders and I understand that the new application
form is up on the Garda website.

A range of documents will be signed by the Minister tomorrow to give effect
to the following

· Two fees order (one for the outsourced fees and one on for the non
outsourced ones);
· Commencement Order for the remaining elements of CJA 2006 (28, 30, 32
and 33);
· Commencement Order for substantial parts of Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (sections 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32,
33, 35, 37, 39, 40 (part), 41, 42, 43 and 44);
· New target shooting Clubs S.I.;
· New secure accommodation regulations for storage of firearms.

Please note that the personal import ban does not come into effect for some
time yet becase we will have to address in the context of the Eu Weapons
Directive so sections 34, 36 and 38 aren't being commenced just yet.”

Or have a look at the PDF which is a little easier to read, in the attachments.

TheDoc

From my reading it seems this could be a hefty effort for the government to try bring in, as it breaches a number of EU directives along with international trade laws.

I believe an import embargo was attempted in a number of EU countries, however was a failure due to inability to overcome these EU and international trade laws.

However, the government of those countries basically said " right **** that" and banned airsoft. I believe this happend in Portugal and a few other places.

This information was collected from reading Berget forums and speaking to two Portuguese fellows at the food stand in Berget.

fayer

Again the imports ban is following an EU directive, MPB or not it was coming in.

wahmeister666

Gizmodeon wrote: »

IASRA have recieved correspondance from the DOJ, and so far we have this information with regards the bill. We will however be meeting with them at the end of this month on the matter.




Or have a look at the PDF which is a little easier to read, in the attachments.

Hmmm okay so...thanks

elDiablo79

OK sorry people, but does this mean if i buy a aeg off ehobbyasia,etc., ill get it or will customs crush it on me?? or is it just not worth losing my money, should i just get one in Irish retailer?

Mervenut

elDiablo79 wrote: »

OK sorry people, but does this mean if i buy a aeg off ehobbyasia,etc., ill get it or will customs crush it on me?? or is it just not worth losing my money, should i just get one in Irish retailer?

"Please note that the personal import ban does not come into effect for some time yet becase we will have to address in the context of the Eu Weapons Directive so sections 34, 36 and 38 aren't being commenced just yet."

In other words, as long as your aeg is under the 1 Joule limit you can import it for the time being!

Decky86

was just about to order a gbb from ehobbyasia.. now im worried. has anyones airsoft weapons been confiscated? cos itd be just my luck that itd happen to me
buy; yay or nay?

Captain Chaos

There was an issue with French customs with stuff from RSOV via TNT, I think that was the delivery company involved. That was destroyed for some reason.

UPS don't usually go through France on the way to Ireland from HK, they go through Germany and in rare cases the US. I currently have two deliveries on route from WGC and ehobby both with UPS, I expect they will both get in fine but I'll post here if there is anything off keel with them. They should be leaving HK airport tonight.

Decky86

oh really. i'll do likewise if i put my order through.. but which courier company (if you get a choice?) is best to use

Captain Chaos

Generally, if I get the choice I go with TNT because in my experience they always ring and tell me the customs and duty price I have to pay the driver before he gets to me and they give me a rough but usually accurate time the delivery will arrive at the door. WGC and ehobby only use UPS to Ireland like most HK retailers, RSOV give a choice though.

UPS on the other don't contact me at all and in my experience anyway charge a little bit more with their ''other costs'' on the invoice.

After hearing about French customs going a bit mental lately, I would not take the risk of using TNT and having packages go through France for the time being.

horgan_p

i spoke to customs this morning regarding 2 (grrr) shipments currently chilling out in their office.
They do know that rule changes are on the way , they dont themselves know when.
Their one of their problems is and i quote "we ring people about their packages and why they want them.They tell us they use them for shooting after school"

Decky86

extra charges? on top of the shippin charges imposed buy ehobbyasia? sorry ive never bought anything overseas before.
and about that quote from people saying they shoot after school.. i hate those fricking idiot kids!! make it a 18+ sport!!

Captain Chaos

Decky86 wrote: »

extra charges? on top of the shippin charges imposed buy ehobbyasia?

They are not imposed as such, thats the deal ehobby have with only using UPS for large ittem to Ireland. The extra charges I tend to see with UPS is, they have the VAT fee on the total order plus delivery charge -fine, then a duty fee - fine. Then on a good few orders I also have ''handling fee and other charges'' listed on the invoice that is anywhere from another €5-€15, don't know why, sometimes I'm charged this and other times not.

Decky86

So you get charged for the items. Then again for shipping.. Then when it gets out of HK you get charged the courier and handling fees etc, for which you say by cash when you receive it? It looks like gettin them here skips all that hassle and for what? An extra 20euro.. Probably worth it.

Captain Chaos

Yeah when you order anything of €40 from out side the EU you pay VAT @ 21.5% on it.

I ordered an AEG from HK a bit back, it was $250, shipping was $110 because it was a heavy ass AEG. When it gets here customs charge VAT on the $250+$110 plus a duty fee. But sometimes it still works out cheaper with all these costs on top than if you were to get it ordered in here by a retailer, not always but sometimes.

One time I had to pay Mr. UPS over €120 at the door on a €500 AEG including shipping from HK. Thats the nature of the game.

wahmeister666

Decky86 wrote: »

and about that quote from people saying they shoot after school.. i hate those fricking idiot kids!! make it a 18+ sport!!

Yeah little pricks like that shouldn't have the airsoft guns in the first place

Leftyflip

Decky86 wrote: »

people saying they shoot after school.. i hate those fricking idiot kids!! make it a 18+ sport!!

So because of the actions of a few irresponsible kids, you want to stop responsible kids playing airsoft?
Now that's hardly fair on me or any other kid who plays airsoft responsibly...

Witcher

Leftyflip wrote: »

So because of the actions of a few irresponsible kids, you want to stop responsible kids playing airsoft?
Now that's hardly fair on me or any other kid who plays airsoft responsibly...

Even though this doesn't affect me now as I'm 18, I started airsoft when I was 16 and know what it's like to listen to this crap.

Saying "stupid kids, make it an 18+ sport" is frankly stupid, yes some under 18's act the maggot with airsoft's but then again so do some adults, so where do we draw the line for them? Maturity doesn't come the minute you have 18 candles on your cake, so making it 18+ still rules in the idiot adults who abuse airsoft.

wahmeister666

Blay wrote: »

Even though this doesn't affect me now as I'm 18, I started airsoft when I was 16 and know what it's like to listen to this crap.

Saying "stupid kids, make it an 18+ sport" is frankly stupid, yes some under 18's act the maggot with airsoft's but then again so do some adults, so where do we draw the line for them? Maturity doesn't come the minute you have 18 candles on your cake, so making it 18+ still rules in the idiot adults who abuse airsoft.

Fair point there too dude...not all adults treat it responsibly either...so I guess it is hard to draw the line...but the MAJORITY do NOT act in that way...and I guess thats why its 18+ is because the majority wins