Martyrs: WTF?

Wheely

Just rented and watched this French horror-mystery movie. It's new out, reviews were fantastic, film was incredibly disturbing and difficult to watch. Haven't decided if it was good or not yet. Maybe it needs a second viewing but I'm still queasy from the first. Just wondering has anyone seen it and if so what they thought?

Karl Hungus

Picked this up my self the last week, but haven't gotten around to watching it yet. I am looking forward to seeing it, I remember reading an interview with the director, and it was really intruiging.

Driver 8

Saw it a while back, I suppose you could call it ambitious in its intent, but for me it just didn't work. The first half is well handled, but the second just becomes dull, as I said, the overarching theme just didn't work for me.

pwd

You posted this while I was watching it.

There are some horrifying scenes in it. The ending seemed a little anti-climatic, but I had been told what happened in the end already so that might be why.

I read online that they were appealling he 18s cert the film was given in France. It's very rare for a film to get an 18s rating in France, it seems.

Magic Eight Ball

I thought it was an excellent movie. Sometimes difficult to watch, but never the less, a breath of fresh air from the mainstream horror rubbish Hollywood is dishing out.

Not The Real Scarecrow

One of my favourite movies this year along with Let The Right One In. Seen it a few times now and gets better every time.

Karl Hungus

Watched this last night. I think the first half of the film was the stronger aspect, but jesus, what a ****ing film! :eek:

azezil

I saw it last year at the Horrorthon in the IFI.

I absolutely loved it (not sure that's a good thing ), truly disturbing and hard to watch at times. Other films may have made me jump but this one is just... I don't even know what to say, its just incredible. I left the cinema speechless.

Vic Vinegar

Great film, the French sure know how to do horrors! Inside was great too.... amongst others.

trustno1

I watched this a few weeks ago and while I found parts of it hard to watch, I thought it had an interesting end and was worth sticking it out - I have heard a few people saying that they didn't like the 'second half' but I thought it was all relevant and overall worth the watch. But I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on what she told Madame at the end??..

mudokon

I have just finished watching this now & it was decent in a disturbing way. The first half was probably the stronger of this film but the second half is relevant to get the point across even though it was a little drawn out.

mudokon

trustno1 wrote: »

I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on what she told Madame at the end??..

I would like to know who were the people trying to create the martyrs before taking a guess at what Anna said to Madame. There was a hint that they werent religious so what were their reasons?

trustno1

I think you are correct in saying that they weren't religious - I took from it that they were a bunch of rich idiots that thought that they could buy their way into finding out what after life was like by having these people Martyred so they could tell them

.

mudokon

That makes sense, when the response team showed up they were militaristic which had me thinking along the lines of an "official" organisation. There was no real excitement/ disappointment in Madame's behaviour after she had been told what was on the other side so maybe Anna just described a feeling of contentment.

Karl Hungus

I honestly can't stop thinking about this film. Honestly, I expected simply an above-average gore movie, nothing more. It completely took me by surprise, there was so much more to it. I don't know the last time I was this unnerved by a film either, it was a hard watch, yet suprisingly I just wanted more.

The psychological aspects for me was definitely what was the strongest part of the film, and I'd love to have seen more of Lucie's imaginary friend, and how she was being compelled. Downright freaky as hell.

mudokon

Karl Hungus wrote: »

The psychological aspects for me was definitely what was the strongest part of the film, and I'd love to have seen more of Lucie's imaginary friend, and how she was being compelled. Downright freaky as hell.

I think the imaginary friend was Lucie's guilty conscience at leaving the other captive in the building when she escaped

Karl Hungus

mudokon wrote: »

I think the imaginary friend was Lucie's guilty conscience at leaving the other captive in the building when she escaped

Oh aye, I'm just saying I would've liked to have seen more of that.

What's really surprising me is how many people are loving this film. It's the type of horror that people would often dismiss as pointless violence.

mudokon

The story holds the violence together well & that it doesnt turn into a gore fest helps.

L31mr0d

Seen this film today. Unlike others I actually found the second half more interesting... the first half felt formulaic (

reminded me of "a tale of two sisters", Ringu, the grudge... etc

) but the second half was chilling. It's definitely burnt itself into my mind.

In regards to the ending:

I was kind of expecting a macguffin and didn't read anything further into it, whatever Mademoiselle would of said to the people waiting downstairs would of detracted from the impact of the events that preceded it. By having Anna whisper some words that cause Mademoiselle to kill herself to keep these words secret, the impact remains intact. When I seen Anna begin to whisper I couldn't help but be reminded of the Radiohead video for the song "Just"

Basq

Watched this last night.. a very intriguing well-made film!

The gore aspect of it didn't bother me whatsoever (I think I've just become become desensitized to it) but

the brutal beatings Anna recieved felt too real.. felt myself going between disgusted and slightly enraged when watching those.

Elements of the film were really very obvious though. When Anna finds the basement (hmmmm.. wonder what she's gonna find down there), when Anna gets interrogated by Madame (you knew exactly where it was going) and as for the ending, I knew well in advance it would be one of those endings.. as soon as Etienne announced Madame was going to tell the crowd what Anna told her and went up and knocked on her door, I could see her killing herself. But I did almost expect the film to end at the shot of the camera zooming inside Anna's pupil when in her martyred state.

Found the first half more tense but the second one was quite heartbreaking to watch. Both have their own merits to be honest.

Another French horror was recommended to me called 'À l'intérieur' (Inside) .. so gonna watch that tonight!

Sanjuro

I’m quite conflicted by Martyrs. It’s a very well put together film. The production values, make-up effects and acting are very good. I have to admire just how far the filmmakers were willing to push the boundaries. And the boundaries are destroyed, trampled into the ground and then defecated on. However, the script and plot really don’t justify the volume of violence in the film. You want to have a very, very strong script and one hell of a pay-off to justify what you’re put through in Martyrs. And I really don’t know what that pay-off would be. But Martyrs unfortunately doesn’t deliver. What is very clear about it is, it’s extreme. Few films come close. I won’t watch the film again for a very long time, if ever. I’d love to watch it again, to get a clearer view of how I feel, but I don’t think I could put myself through it. It may seem like a cop-out. But watch it and see if you could put yourself through it twice. As was once said in Futurama- You’ve watched it. You can’t un-watch it. A disclaimer for Martyrs if ever I heard one.

Karl Hungus

I watched the film again, and I have to say, it's lingering. It's every bit as chilling and uncomfortable the second time round.

Sanjuro wrote: »

You want to have a very, very strong script and one hell of a pay-off to justify what you’re put through in Martyrs. And I really don’t know what that pay-off would be. But Martyrs unfortunately doesn’t deliver. What is very clear about it is, it’s extreme.

I don't think the film would've worked as well if there had been a big pay off. The way I saw it, the whole thing was one big sucker-punch. It's definitely open to interpretation, but the ending could be seen to say that all the violence the girls were subjected to was ultimately pointless.

If we compare it to Hostel for example, the pay off is that Paxton escapes and gets his revenge on the Dutch business man. He was hurt, his friends were killed, and now he's going to get his own back, we as the audience can feel good about that. Martyrs is something very different. There's absolutely nothing in the film to feel good about, Lucie's vengeance comes at the start of the film, and there's enough doubt that we don't even know that she has the right people, so it's nothing we can feel good about. She doesn't find release or salvation, she's still tormented. Anna rescuing the woman from the basement is fruitless as well, she's still completely damaged.

If it had an end similar to Hostel, where we're subjected to the violence, but it's ok because the villains get killed and the protagonist gets away, it wouldn't have worked as well. As Basquille has said, the beatings were savage and definitely made you feel angry, some form of retribution would have been hugely welcome. But wrapping up the violence would have served to justify it, it would excuse it even, it's ok to be subjected to such intense violence and have equally strong feelings as long as those feelings are sated. What's so absolutely chilling about Martyrs is that it never sates those feelings, instead of wrapping things up it leaves you with them, you're every bit as outraged and disgusted by what you witnessed at the end. There is absolutely no justification for the violence, there's no salvation for anyone, there's no retribution and there is nothing to feel good about. If Anna had escaped, if she enacted revenge on the man who was beating her, we'd feel good about that. But the film doesn't do that, it makes you retain the intense feelings after it ends.

We've just watched something very, very horrific, and it absolutely feels like it. I think that's exactly what made the film work so well, why it's been lingering in my mind these last few days, and why I had to watch it again. It's bleak, disturbing, chilling and and a very, very powerful experience.

trustno1

One thing that bugged me when watching the film was -

why had that girl that Anna rescued got a 'visor' nailed into her head? how the hell were they going to know if she had been martyred if they couldn't see her eye's?

Basq

trustno1 wrote: »

One thing that bugged me when watching the film was -

why had that girl that Anna rescued got a 'visor' nailed into her head? how the hell were they going to know if she had been martyred if they couldn't see her eye's?

I'd say

blinding her was just another form of torture. I reckon they'd have removed the "visor" closer to a state of martyrsm / near death.

.

But I could be wrong.. it was a bit of an odd one alright!

PS - 'À l'intérieur' wasn't bad.. but the whole film could be summarised in just 3 words (

Knitting Needle Vs Scissors

). 'Martyrs' was so much however.

trustno1

You could be right on the removing of the visor!..

it was painful to watch when Anna was removing it and the 'chastity belt' WTF?!!..

must look into À l'intérieur' - would you recommend buying or renting?, as I bought Splinter (watched it last night, not a bad little film, but could have been so much better) and I was raging that I just didn't rent it as it wasn't a 'keeper'!.. also have Frontiers to watch (bought as well - had better be good!!)..

Basq

trustno1 wrote: »

must look into À l'intérieur' - would you recommend buying or renting?

I thought it was decent... very very gory. Even moreso than Martyrs I thought. The first half of the film was great but it fell apart a little. I'd say give it a rent!

trustno1 wrote: »

as I bought Splinter (watched it last night, not a bad little film, but could have been so much better) and I was raging that I just didn't rent it as it wasn't a 'keeper'!..

I couldn't even make it through Splinter.. thought it was just a tad boring to be honest.

trustno1

Thanks for the advice!.. will add it to my rental list.. and meant to say that I had read that the director of Martyrs - Pascal Laugier was lined up to remake Hellraiser but apparently he has now pulled out of it, pity as Hellraiser could use a remake (some of it very dated) and he could have done an excellent job of it!!..

the_syco

Karl Hungus wrote: »

What's really surprising me is how many people are loving this film. It's the type of horror that people would often dismiss as pointless violence.

"Saw" type pointless violence, or "Bad Taste" type pointless violence?

Also, is it in English, or is it subbed?

L31mr0d

the_syco wrote: »

"Saw" type pointless violence, or "Bad Taste" type pointless violence?

It's in french and subbed.

Also the violence is graphic but not pointless in anyway imo. It serves a purpose, unlike Saw. As a horror it really is an excellent film though. Like Karl, it truly sunk in for me after a day or so of thinking over it.

Block (8

Saw this a while back while good and has an original storyline but can be disturbing to watch.

Was very surprised at the change in the first half and the second half of the movie. Both seem great in their own way and they linked in well together and smoothly.
But found it hard to watch the beatings and torture.

L31mr0d

Block (8 wrote: »

But found it hard to watch the beatings and torture.

I got an overwhelming sense of dehumanization of Anna, as she was merely a substance undergoing a set of procedures to produce a result. The man who was beating her felt no malice towards her, the same way a scientist will inject an animal with a poison for testing but feel no hatred for that creature. He was clinically following some procedure to keep the individual in a constant state of pain and suffering. I mean you even hear this when the man is talking to the woman living in the house, it is like they are talking about something they admire and are fascinated by.

What I think this film accomplished well was building up Annas character in the first half to a point where the audience cared for her. She was a good, altruistic individual, and despite the horror of the events going on around her was continuing to try and help everyone equally.

I feel this is what made the second half of the film so stirring and emotive, that our preconceived opinions on justice and karma where being shattered. It didn't matter if this person was a philanthropist or rapist, in that basement they where merely a biomechanical organism undergoing a series of processes to cultivate a product. What was happening to her wasn't out of revenge or anger but out of mere curiosity about death and the unknown.

nacho libre

One viewing was more than enough for me. i think L31mr0d is right about Anna's character, for me that's what made the film so gut-wrenching to watch. the true power of this film is that it manages to compel you to question what you saw and be ill at ease over it. i think that's quite an achievement because nowadays we are bombarded by depictions of shocking violence - yet we are largely densensitizied to it.

Karl Hungus

nacho libre wrote: »

i think that's quite an achievement because nowadays we are bombarded by depictions of shocking violence - yet we are largely densensitizied to it.

I don't really believe in desensitization so much. When we're shown to violence in films, it can cease to shock because it's presented in a way that we're overly used to, so it's not the violence we become used to, but the presentation and the cliches. It's the same reason why some horror films fail to scare us when they rely on cheap tricks that we've seen in other films, or comedies that use recycled, stale jokes. But it's not actual violence we become desensitized to. I'd say that if any one of us saw someone shot in real life, we'd be cowering in fear, despite never reacting at all when seeing it on film so many times.

But yes, I'd agree that with Martyrs, the characters make a huge part of why it's such an impact. Another reason why I'd say is

other films that are violent or could be shocking often placate us with a happy ending, the impact is lessened when we have an ending we're satisfied. Martyrs specifically leaves us with every feeling that builds up throughout the film.

nitrogen

I've just finished watching this. While I wouldn't be the biggest horror fan, I do love psychological thrillers. Frankly I didn't enjoy the experience of watching this. While that is not to say I disliked the movie, it made me feel uncomfortable in a way which is quite rare for a movie going experience. To agree with Karl, I think the reason is Martyrs showed violence in an unfamilar way compared to Hollywood.

It feels originally real at times with the fresh cinematography. I do think the plot should be stronger, to match this level of gore. Albeit this isn't my type of movie, but a strange taste lingers after viewing it.

Secretpint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY_ezR5nz8w

heres the music featured in the second half of the film, where anna hears Lucie

trustno1

trustno1 wrote: »

You could be right on the removing of the visor!..

it was painful to watch when Anna was removing it and the 'chastity belt' WTF?!!..

must look into À l'intérieur' - would you recommend buying or renting?, as I bought Splinter (watched it last night, not a bad little film, but could have been so much better) and I was raging that I just didn't rent it as it wasn't a 'keeper'!.. also have Frontiers to watch (bought as well - had better be good!!)..

I know this thread is about Martyrs.. but I just had to say that I watched Frontier(s) last night and holy mother of god.. what a pile.. if you have not seen it avoid it like the plague... awful waste of money\time watching it!!!..

beans

I dismissed Martyrs in another thread, perhaps a bit out of hand. Clearly a lot of people saw merit in it. Not this viewer, though.

At first I thought it was going to revolve around the rather obvious

manifestation of guilt at leaving the other captive to (die?) in the building of the opening scenes. Enjoyed the jerky imagery of Lucie's demon, even though it was pretty clear what was going on. I loved the straightforward manner in which the shotgun-killings were dealt with, plenty of oomph and grit. But when the whole torture-revelation-cult thing kicked off, I tuned out. By the end of it, I couldn't have cared less what happened to Etienne or la vieille fille, the whole thing was so ill-concieved.

I guess that's why us different folks have our different strokes, eh?

missingtime

Ok I'm going to give this a shot. Will report back in a while.

missingtime

Well I have to say, I'm very shook by the whole experience. I did not like this movie at all and I came very close to switching it off. BUT..I'm, for want of a better word, glad I didn't.

All through the movie I was thinking whats the point, why are they doing this? Its just sick pointless bull****. The idea revealed at the end is a unusual idea and it does make sense in some sick way....and at least I know now that there was a point to the whole ordeal.

I'm exhausted after it.

Shoota

azezil wrote: »

I saw it last year at the Horrorthon in the IFI.

I absolutely loved it (not sure that's a good thing ), truly disturbing and hard to watch at times. Other films may have made me jump but this one is just... I don't even know what to say, its just incredible. I left the cinema speechless.

You weren't alone there! Easily the most unanimous shocked feeling I've experienced as a whole in a cinema :eek:

Otis Driftwood

Apologies for bumping an old thread but I watched this for the first time last night and I have to say,it blew my mind.

Its as freaky and memorable a horror movie I have ever seen.Although one aspect was predictible enough

It was Lucies psychosis that created the creature haunting her

aside from that it was incredibly surprising.

When the guys dressed in black appeared I was expecting it to be another Hostel clone but thankfully it wasnt.

I found the whole premise of the movie to be exceptional and extremely well executed.Its brutal as hell,has some genuinely creepy moments,has some excellent effects work and most of all it has a fresh idea.

All in all an outstanding horror movie IMO.

Europe is so far ahead of the states and Asia in terms of its horror output at the moment it is nearly unfathomable.
Long may it last.

Kess73

Delighted to see that so many also enjoyed the film. I might be so bold to offer a recomendation to all who like the film.

It is another French horror/gore film called FRONTIERS.


It has countrywise riots. Robbers on the run. Neo Nazis, aspiration to a New World Order, and some nasty methods.


Another film that may interest people is Inside. This may be even more divisive than Martyrs, but is an excellent film which features a good tyurn by Alysson Paradis, sister of Vanessa.

Otis Driftwood

Have seen both of the above and both kick ass,particularly Inside,I fookin love that movie.

Karl Hungus

Glad you liked it Ned. I was kind of unsure if you'd like it or not, as you seemed to hate [Rec] and some other highly regarded horror films that have been discussed around these parts before.

Kess, I'd also highly recommend Inside, it's another truly exceptional French horror, but I couldn't really agree with you about Frontiers. I thought it had all of the violence but none of the character, finesse, tension and story that made Martyrs and Inside what they were. It's not the worst gore movie in existance, but I really wouldn't hold Frontiers up to Martyrs at all.

Kess73

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Glad you liked it Ned. I was kind of unsure if you'd like it or not, as you seemed to hate [Rec] and some other highly regarded horror films that have been discussed around these parts before.

Kess, I'd also highly recommend Inside, it's another truly exceptional French horror, but I couldn't really agree with you about Frontiers. I thought it had all of the violence but none of the character, finesse, tension and story that made Martyrs and Inside what they were. It's not the worst gore movie in existance, but I really wouldn't hold Frontiers up to Martyrs at all.

I would agree that Frontiers is different to Martyrs on many levels not least in terms of finesse and character building, but it is still well above the level of some of the US dirge that gets rolled out year after year and called "classic" horror by the media.

For me, it is a good example of the strength in depth of European horror films, and quite entertaining in a less involving way than Martyrs.

Inside I would rate above Martyrs, and would argue that Martyrs was influenced heavily in tone by it. It even proved a major influence to an end of season episode of the US show Peak Practise.

Otis Driftwood

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Glad you liked it Ned. I was kind of unsure if you'd like it or not, as you seemed to hate [Rec] and some other highly regarded horror films that have been discussed around these parts before.

Kess, I'd also highly recommend Inside, it's another truly exceptional French horror, but I couldn't really agree with you about Frontiers. I thought it had all of the violence but none of the character, finesse, tension and story that made Martyrs and Inside what they were. It's not the worst gore movie in existance, but I really wouldn't hold Frontiers up to Martyrs at all.

I actually re-watched Rec a few months ago and enjoyed it more than the first time I saw it.Dont get me wrong,I still thinks its very over rated but I suppose when I saw it originally I had had it hyped up for months in advance as to how scary it was.I kinda knew the premise too where as all Id heard about Martyrs was that it was a great movie so I went into it more or less blind.

I will say though,I saw the trailer for Rec 2 before The Crazies at the weekend and it does look pretty damn interesting and definitly one for a big screen viewing.

Giselle

I'm glad I came on this thread. I had Martyrs lined up to watch this weekend, but I'm not going to now after reading how difficult posters found it.

Once I start watching a movie I can't stop. So forewarned, I won't start with this one.:)

AttackThePoster

Just watch the ****ing thing and make up your own mind.

Otis Driftwood

We need 10 miligrams of chill pills for attacktheposter,stat.
:rolleyes:

AttackThePoster

Come on, it's a ridiculous thing to say. The guy was going to watch it but then read some things on boards.ie, yes, boards.ie, and now does not want to watch it. Just sounds so lame to me.

MagicMarker

I've had this for ages but haven't watched it yet, I'm well aware of it's content and just haven't been in the ''mood'' for it yet!