Interview (Part 1) with FIFA player Classic

NeoKubrick

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Y2J_MUFC

He gives lessons? And people actually pay money? Sad, sad bastards.

This whole naming of the top 5 UK players is like a competition to see who has the bigger e-cock.

NeoKubrick

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

He gives lessons? And people actually pay money? Sad, sad bastards.

Well, I don't see how a person is a sad bastard if they want to learn vital high-level moves fast by leeching off of a top player for a bit of money. Considering the money involved in competitive FIFA, I don't think it is such a bad investment for a player who wants to play competitively and win money. People pay money for football merchandise: go figure.

Any feedback is welcome on the interview, by the way.

Kinetic^

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Well, I don't see how a person is a sad bastard if they want to learn vital high-level moves fast by leeching off of a top player for a bit of money. Considering the money involved in competitive FIFA, I don't think it is such a bad investment for a player who wants to play competitively and win money. People pay money for football merchandise: go figure.

The UK scene had been sewn up for years by ChrissyB and Bazza has recently joined him at the top. Paying for lessons will only get you so far as you can be 100 sure that they will not give everything away. It'll still need hard work to perfect the a lot of the higher skilled tactics that they won't tell you and if you can't master the simple stuff, how can you expect to learn the difficult stuff?

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Any feedback is welcome on the interview, by the way.

My feedback, don't post a "read more" link to your articles.Post the entire article with a link down the bottom saying "taken from here". Boards.ie is not here to get you hits on your articles. You have till the end of the day to change it.

Y2J_MUFC

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Well, I don't see how a person is a sad bastard if they want to learn vital high-level moves fast by leeching off of a top player for a bit of money. Considering the money involved in competitive FIFA, I don't think it is such a bad investment for a player who wants to play competitively and win money. People pay money for football merchandise: go figure.

Any feedback is welcome on the interview, by the way.

I would never, never pay money to somebody to teach my how to play a video game. If you can't figure out on your own, you're never going to be a top player. Why you would pay money instead of practicing yourself, beggars belief.

There are plenty of holes in this, but just to pick one.....

"..... ban custom formations now due to the fact anyone can win and there is no skill involved whatsoever"

So, if anybody can win with a custom formation, with no skill, why would you pay for lessons if its so simple? Quite a lot of teams by default do not have a standard formation when you get the game out of the box. So its literally, part and parcel of the game.

FIFA is about lots of things, not just player skill... you can't just say, oh wait, you've tweaked your formation and now I can't beat you. That's not fair.

NeoKubrick

Kinetic^ wrote: »

The UK scene had been sewn up for years by ChrissyB and Bazza has recently joined him at the top. Paying for lessons will only get you so far as you can be 100 sure that they will not give everything away. It'll still need hard work to perfect the a lot of the higher skilled tactics that they won't tell you and if you can't master the simple stuff, how can you expect to learn the difficult stuff?

The UK scene has moved on: your view is about a year out-of-date. Paying for lessons will fast-track your learning of high-level moves, which can drastically improve your play. Knowledge is power. It's not that simple to learn how to perfect a move you don't know exists. I don't pay for information I can get for free, but it is a viable option for players unwilling to do a bit of research on their own, and they are not "sad bastards" for spending money to take that option.

Y2J_MUFC wrote:

I would never, never pay money to somebody to teach my how to play a video game. If you can't figure out on your own, you're never going to be a top player. Why you would pay money instead of practicing yourself, beggars belief.

I don't think what Classic is offering is 'teaching' someone how to play the game: it's teaching players the high-level competitive moves, bugs and glitches. What you're paying for is his knowledge which, I'm sure you agree, will be significantly more substantial than a standard player.

Y2J_MUFC wrote:

There are plenty of holes in this, but just to pick one.....

So, if anybody can win with a custom formation, with no skill, why would you pay for lessons if its so simple? Quite a lot of teams by default do not have a standard formation when you get the game out of the box. So its literally, part and parcel of the game.

FIFA is about lots of things, not just player skill... you can't just say, oh wait, you've tweaked your formation and now I can't beat you. That's not fair.

Well, iSeries banned custom formations. So, it wouldn't get you that far in that tournament with a large cash prize. I don't know much about custom formations in FIFA, but in PES, they work because there are restrictions on the amount of defenders (5) and attacks (5) you can have. If FIFA 09 doesn't have these restrictions, then a custom formation with eight defenders would be unskillful and non-competitive, especially considering FIFA's slow pace and how it's more easy to score from counter-attacks.

Kinetic^

NeoKubrick wrote: »

The UK scene has moved on: your view is about a year out-of-date. Paying for lessons will fast-track your learning of high-level moves, which can drastically improve your play. Knowledge is power. It's not that simple to learn how to perfect a move you don't know exists. I don't pay for information I can get for free, but it is a viable option for players unwilling to do a bit of research on their own, and they are not "sad bastards" for spending money to take that option.

I never said that they were sad bastards so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

NeoKubrick

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I never said that they were sad bastards so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

Y2J_MUFC, not you, wrote "sad bastards".

Y2J_MUFC

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I don't think what Classic is offering is 'teaching' someone how to play the game: it's teaching players the high-level competitive moves, bugs and glitches.

Thats even worse. He's not telling you how to play the game and win with skill if what you say is true. He's telling you bugs and glitches to exploit. And trying to make money from it?

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Well, iSeries banned custom formations. So, it wouldn't get you that far in that tournament with a large cash prize. I don't know much about custom formations in FIFA, but in PES, they work because there are restrictions on the amount of defenders (5) and attacks (5) you can have. If FIFA 09 doesn't have these restrictions, then a custom formation with eight defenders would be unskillful and non-competitive, especially considering FIFA's slow pace and how it's more easy to score from counter-attacks.

I'm not talking about custom formations with 8 defenders, I'm talking about slight tweaks. I like to give certain players certain instructions. But instead of coming up with a rule such as, you can not have 6 or more defenders. They have a blanket ban on custom formations even though many teams do not have a standard formation when the games comes out of the box.

Paying for "lessons" will only get you so far. I still think its pathetic if you have to pay for lessons on how to play a video-game. Its one thing knowing about things, its another thing actually doing it. Why not learn it by practicing yourself.

While I was 1st/2nd in the board premiership for the first couple of seasons, I had more than one or two lads asking me for help which is grand.. but why would you ask for money? I don't know who is worse, him for asking for money, or the lads who pay.

dar83

One of the main reasons I never bothered my arse actually putting so much time into trying to play PES competitively (apart from having more important things to do with my spare time) is the fact that along with any game, the people that are most successful at it are the ones that learn and exploit the bugs and glitches to succeed.

Anyone bothered enough could do that, problem is, it's usually only people with Aspergers tendencies that bother and so become quite compulsive about it, to the point of success.

Also the people paying for lessons are already doomed to failure. Trying to get ahead quick by paying someone to show you the glitches and exploits along with some "higher level" tactics means that you already lack the personal motivation and fixation that the top players have and you're never gonna succeed. It's wasted money and not sad, but genuinely kinda sad, for them.

NeoKubrick

Y2J_MUFC wrote:

Thats even worse. He's not telling you how to play the game and win with skill if what you say is true. He's telling you bugs and glitches to exploit. And trying to make money from it?

I'm not talking about custom formations with 8 defenders, I'm talking about slight tweaks. I like to give certain players certain instructions. But instead of coming up with a rule such as, you can not have 6 or more defenders. They have a blanket ban on custom formations even though many teams do not have a standard formation when the games comes out of the box.

Paying for "lessons" will only get you so far. I still think its pathetic if you have to pay for lessons on how to play a video-game. Its one thing knowing about things, its another thing actually doing it. Why not learn it by practicing yourself.

While I was 1st/2nd in the board premiership for the first couple of seasons, I had more than one or two lads asking me for help which is grand.. but why would you ask for money? I don't know who is worse, him for asking for money, or the lads who pay.

I didn't agree with Classic, fundamentally, that custom formations should be banned. If you can't punish a strategy, that doesn't mean the strategy should be banned; you just have to figure out how to punish it. But, there is a point where the game would be better to play competitively with some restrictions than without, and I think that is where PES has found the right balance (just a number of reasons why it's still a better game) in restricting in-game the amount of defenders and attacks but giving the player more than enough freedom to work within that structure of restrictions.

And there exists superior moves you will have difficulty finding on your own by playing the game. You may find them, accidentally, through hours and hours of play, but, will you even recognize its usefulness or potential at high-level competition play? A top player is programmed and experienced to root out the high-level moves in a game and understand what is efficient and what isn't. No player becomes great on his own: he feeds off of the competitive community within the game who together have built-up knowledge of said game.


From experience, I know of one trick in PES that even none of the top players German or French players know about (they didn't seem to use it, anyway), or anyone else that I've come across who has played the game for years and years. It's amusing, though, because PES was criticized for the exclusion of this trick. It was removed for PES 2009. Paypal me 50 euro to find out.

Kirby

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I think that is where PES has found the right balance (just a number of reasons why it's still a better game)

I stopped reading after this sentence.....

Kinetic^

Kinetic^ wrote: »

My feedback, don't post a "read more" link to your articles.Post the entire article with a link down the bottom saying "taken from here". Boards.ie is not here to get you hits on your articles. You have till the end of the day to change it.

Can you do this please?

Sabre0001

Y2J_MUFC, there is a reason why certain players are at the top so it makes sense that people would pay for lessons from them. And competitive FIFA is ALL about the glitches and bugs. Many games are but FIFA is to a great extent. Plenty of other gamers are charging for video games lessons. And if eSports develops, it could be a big market.

Yes, people could practice themselves but there are certain intricacies you will only learn from another player. Also, I don't agree that by paying for lessons that you have failed. Nobody has stated those that pay for lessons want to reach the upper echelons. Maybe beating their friends and kicking ass online is good enough for them - people are competitive by nature.

CrankyStudent

im not arsed reading all this, but if you have a grasp on football knowledge and play simple build up, like pass and move at the right times, not tryna do the killer ball type ****, like in real life, your bound to get good, id be interested in playing one of these *****

attacking = patience

defence = dont dive in etc

not rocket science, its a football game like

Y2J_MUFC

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I didn't agree with Classic, fundamentally, that custom formations should be banned. If you can't punish a strategy, that doesn't mean the strategy should be banned; you just have to figure out how to punish it. But, there is a point where the game would be better to play competitively with some restrictions than without

I agree with all of this, but instead of banning custom formations, if its 6-8 defenders that the problem, have an agreement to play 5 defenders maximum. Teams after play with 5 in real life, but never with 6. That's keeping the game realistic, if thats the problem he has with it. Its stupid to have a blanket ban in a competition. Keep it realistic, but don't restrict players, especially when out of the box teams have their own non-standard formations.

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Y2J_MUFC, there is a reason why certain players are at the top so it makes sense that people would pay for lessons from them. And competitive FIFA is ALL about the glitches and bugs.

Then why bother having a competition if its not based on player skill? If its based on glitches then whats the point? He's already said that people can win with a custom formation and no skill, so I don't understand why he would then ask for money for lessons if its as easy as he makes out? If his "lessons" are to tell people about glitches, then that's even worse. Many people give away these things for free, and don't try to scam money out of people to tell them some simple info.

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Yes, people could practice themselves but there are certain intricacies you will only learn from another player.

You don't have to pay to find out things. People give away this info for free. Anyone who has ever sent me a PM on xbox live about how I did something (mainly UFC and FIFA) always got a full answer. Its like graphics design. Plenty of people pay, when other people do it just as good for free. I will never understand paying for tips that you can get for free. It's just a way to scam some quick money.

I mean, how many times have you been playing a mate and he pulls something off something cool in a game, and you say, "Jesus, how'd ya do that?" and he tells you? Countless times for me anyways. You don't need to try to scam money for every simple piece of info.

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Nobody has stated those that pay for lessons want to reach the upper echelons. Maybe beating their friends and kicking ass online is good enough for them - people are competitive by nature.

To be honest, if your stupid enough to pay for lessons on how to play a video game, just so you can beat a few friends, you deserve to have your money taken off you. A fool and their money, as the saying goes.

Kirby

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Teams after all, play with 5 in real life, but never with 6.

Thats so untrue its criminal. San marino, for example play with 1 keeper, 9 defenders and 1 forward.

Any time a lower league outfit gets drawn against one of the big 4 in the FA cup, they do the same thing. Two banks of four outside their own box. On the team sheet they may be classed as "midfielders" but they are in actuality, defenders. An orange doesnt become an apple just because thats what the manager calls him.

But you are right about everything else. I would say though, it's a bit off to criticise somebody for how they choose to spend their money. To me, its a game. But that doesn't mean other people view it the same way. I think that people who spend 100 grand on a wedding for a 1 day party are certifiable and crazy... but thats their choice.

Sabre0001

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Then why bother having a competition if its not based on player skill? If its based on glitches then whats the point? He's already said that people can win with a custom formation and no skill, so I don't understand why he would then ask for money for lessons if its as easy as he makes out? If his "lessons" are to tell people about glitches, then that's even worse. Many people give away these things for free, and don't try to scam money out of people to tell them some simple info.

You don't have to pay to find out things. People give away this info for free. Anyone who has ever sent me a PM on xbox live about how I did something (mainly UFC and FIFA) always got a full answer. Its like graphics design. Plenty of people pay, when other people do it just as good for free. I will never understand paying for tips that you can get for free. It's just a way to scam some quick money.

I mean, how many times have you been playing a mate and he pulls something off something cool in a game, and you say, "Jesus, how'd ya do that?" and he tells you? Countless times for me anyways. You don't need to try to scam money for every simple piece of info.

To be honest, if your stupid enough to pay for lessons on how to play a video game, just so you can beat a few friends, you deserve to have your money taken off you. A fool and their money, as the saying goes.

I never said it was all glitches. Plus you have to be able to get into the position to pull off the glitch - remember, the top players all know them so know to prevent them. Still have to get the ball to the sweet spot...except unlike real Football, that sweet spot may be 6 inches from the corner flag rather than 6 yards out.

No, you do not have to pay to find it out. Most can also be found through YouTube or watching replays of top players...or as you say, asking. However, that service is being provided. It's not a scam. People are providing lessons (a service), people take them up. No different to any other service industry....or again, anything that could be done yourself.

Anyways, there is another saying - one mans food is another mans poison. Not everyone thinks that lessons are stupid. But you are very much entitled to that opinion. Many of the top players have done it and it's a good way to buffer a....sketchy...salary. Unless you're top 3-5, you're not going to earn enough so why not make a little extra on the side.

Y2J_MUFC

Kirby wrote: »

Thats so untrue its criminal. San marino, for example play with 1 keeper, 9 defenders and 1 forward.

Any time a lower league outfit gets drawn against one of the big 4 in the FA cup, they do the same thing. Two banks of four outside their own box. On the team sheet they may be classed as "midfielders" but they are in actuality, defenders. An orange doesnt become an apple just because thats what the manager calls him.

So do you think its realistic to have say, Fiorentina against, oh well, for arguments sake say, Bayern Munich ( ) and Fiorentina have 8 defenders (apples, oranges, defenders, midfielders, whatever). That's the point I have making. And even, if they concede a goal, still persist with the tactic, because its the cheapest way to get a goal? San Marino aren't in the game, same as the local pub team, so their tactics are both completely irrelevant in terms of FIFA

Thirdly, you took my orange/apple analogy! :eek:

Kirby wrote: »

But you are right about everything else. I would say though, it's a bit off to criticise somebody for how they choose to spend their money. To me, its a game. But that doesn't mean other people view it the same way. I think that people who spend 100 grand on a wedding for a 1 day party are certifiable and crazy... but thats their choice.

Traditionally weddings aren't free, but you know, if you ask any normal person how to do something on FIFA, its unlikely to cost you anything, unless that person is bit of a cheapskate and after a quick buck!

Y2J_MUFC

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I never said it was all glitches. Plus you have to be able to get into the position to pull off the glitch - remember, the top players all know them so know to prevent them. Still have to get the ball to the sweet spot...except unlike real Football, that sweet spot may be 6 inches from the corner flag rather than 6 yards out.

No, you do not have to pay to find it out. Most can also be found through YouTube or watching replays of top players...or as you say, asking. However, that service is being provided. It's not a scam. People are providing lessons (a service), people take them up. No different to any other service industry....or again, anything that could be done yourself.

Anyways, there is another saying - one mans food is another mans poison. Not everyone thinks that lessons are stupid. But you are very much entitled to that opinion. Many of the top players have done it and it's a good way to buffer a....sketchy...salary. Unless you're top 3-5, you're not going to earn enough so why not make a little extra on the side.

Ah, but I don't think its right to charge for something that's freely available. I mean, you don't sell open source software.

No matter what, I still think anyone who actively pays money to learn how to play FIFA, is a sad individual. Especially, considering you could ask someone for free or use a different means.

Sabre0001

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Ah, but I don't think its right to charge for something that's freely available. I mean, you don't sell open source software.

No matter what, I still think anyone who actively pays money to learn how to play FIFA, is a sad individual. Especially, considering you could ask someone for free or use a different means.

What about guitar lessons? Also something that is freely available, has a multitude of free resources (tabs, chord charts, songs, techniques, YouTube videos, etc). If anything it makes more sense to have FIFA lessons because the games change from year to year...

(Apples and oranges I know but still somewhat applicable)

Personally I wouldn't pay for lessons - but I don't think any less of people that do. I got a Pro Evo 6 techniques book from a friend (which he paid money for) and it was very helpful. Sometimes it takes a person breaking stuff down to make it very clear...

Y2J_MUFC

Sabre0001 wrote: »

What about guitar lessons?

lol guitar lessons and FIFA...not exactly a valid comparison

Sabre0001

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

lol guitar lessons and FIFA...not exactly a valid comparison

a)

Sabre0001 wrote: »

(Apples and oranges I know but still somewhat applicable)

b) Why so?

Axwell

Ah here guitar lessons and FIFA lol are you being serious?? A person plays for guitar lessons because the want someone to show them how to hold the guitar, play chords, bar chords, strum whatever else. They could sit there reading a book or looking at tutorials online but most prefer to have someone teach them and pay for it. Playing a guitar is complex and you cant just pick it up and play it and be of a decent level.
FIFA on the other hand is nowhere near as complex and you can pick it up and play it and figure out what the few buttons are for, if you want to know the skills you ask someone or check the manual, 2 seconds later you can do them as oppose to going ok whats a bar chord, then 2 seconds later being able to play them. To pay some fella to show you "advanced" techniques is sad to be fair especially as was pointed out above when the game is going to change and the glitches wont work on the next version possibly. Also hes not going to show you enough that you will some day be as good as him or else hes no longer a FIFA god and is a mere fifa mortal now with everyone else that can pull off these new found skills and tricks.

Hmm pay for guitar lessons off someone who is good in the hope of one day being as good as John Frusciante and looking back saying man those lessons were worth every penny or pay some fella who claims to be a FIFA legend (but only in the current version because the glitches etc wont be in the one next year) so that I too can show my awesomeness when I go on xbox live to the world (for a few months..oh ya but wait all the good players already know them)...hmm think ill go and get my guitar out of the attic..

Sabre0001

Right, apparently context is missing. I am not comparing the two lesson types to each other. What I was showing is that there is a multitude of lessons freely available to both...

Y2J_MUFC

Sabre0001 wrote: »

What about guitar lessons? Apples and oranges I know

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

lol guitar lessons and FIFA...not exactly a valid comparison

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Why so?

This got very pointless very quickly...

Kirby

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

So do you think its realistic to have say, Fiorentina against, oh well, for arguments sake say, Bayern Munich ( ) and Fiorentina have 8 defenders

Yes. I do.

It happens all the time in football. and thats what I base every option in Fifa on.

If its available in the real game, then it belongs in the simulation. Plenty of teams put 10 men behind the ball in real footy.....Greece won the Euro's doing just that. Its a valid strategy and the fact that its "banned" in these so called "pro" tourneys is ridiculous.

And all this apples and oranges talk makes me want one.

SDTimeout

I think we should all chip in for one person to get a lesson ( me :pac: ) i then record the lad. And post the guides for everyone to see. Meaning we don't have joentina running away with the league.

Sounds grand, paypal will do

Kirby

And then, we roll him up in a carpet and throw him off a bridge! *

And I'm only 3 points behind the Joentina! That return leg, is so ON baby! I'll have that ref bribed up to the eyeballs!

*5 points for those who know where this is from.

SDTimeout

Simpsons.

Kirby will i PM you my xbox gamertag detials you were asking for earlier for when i play him again :pac:

joe123

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

So do you think its realistic to have say, Fiorentina against, oh well, for arguments sake say, Bayern Munich ( ) and Fiorentina have 8 defenders (apples, oranges, defenders, midfielders, whatever). That's the point I have making. And even, if they concede a goal, still persist with the tactic, because its the cheapest way to get a goal!

Eh is that a dig at me there? I play 5 at the back and some of my defenders have been set to have no defensive duties. And secondly how is it a cheap way to get a goal?

A cheap way to get a goal is from a halfway line shot or those corner kick ones.

joe123

Kirby wrote: »

And then, we roll him up in a carpet and throw him off a bridge! *

And I'm only 3 points behind the Joentina! That return leg, is so ON baby! I'll have that ref bribed up to the eyeballs!

*5 points for those who know where this is from.

Joentina....doesnt sound quite right to me! Thanks for that one Sdtimeout!

My strategy will be go for the draw and to kick the ball back and over my back line for the whole game, you know all about that Kirby! (oh did I just go there? I think I did!)