Electricians' strike 'a major success' - TEEU

The Valley

A major success by our electricians
* in putting irish electrical jobs/contracts at risk
* In putting irish jobs at risk - manufacturing jobs at plants that cannot have interuptions to their process

As all the international media report their demands they are damaging Ireland Inc and putting future foreign investment at risk.

Electricians do not have my backing, nor anybody I have talked to, so go back to work you bunch of tossers and be glad you have a job to go to.

And as a last rant, if you dont like the pay and conditions here, move over and let someone else take your position and piss off to somewhere else, may I suggest Poland (I hear the pay is very competitive there):mad:

wexford202

I fully agree.

There is no way there are 10,500 people striking and I would urge all other contractors not to follow suit as the industry is in enough trouble at the minute.

ANYONE WITH A JOB SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO HAVE IT.

Electricians are the highest paid skilled trade in the construction indusrty at the minute.

Darragh29

Eamon Devoy from the TEEU was on Pat Kenny this morning swinging his dick all around studio... He says to the employers, "we've shut down your businesses and they won't be opening again until we say so"... For saying that alone, the man should have been pulled out of the chair by his fu*king ear and thrown through the studio window.

bladespin

Well you must understand that €800 per week is tough to get by on :rolleyes:

weird

The Valley wrote: »

A major success by our electricians
* in putting irish electrical jobs/contracts at risk
* In putting irish jobs at risk - manufacturing jobs at plants that cannot have interuptions to their process

As all the international media report their demands they are damaging Ireland Inc and putting future foreign investment at risk.

Electricians do not have my backing, nor anybody I have talked to, so go back to work you bunch of tossers and be glad you have a job to go to.

And as a last rant, if you dont like the pay and conditions here, move over and let someone else take your position and piss off to somewhere else, may I suggest Poland (I hear the pay is very competitive there):mad:

Agree completely. Did you know the union has Electricians picketing sites they aren't even hired on?!?

wexford202

Darragh29 wrote: »

Eamon Devoy from the TEEU was on Pat Kenny this morning swinging his dick all around studio... He says to the employers, "we've shut down your businesses and they won't be opening again until we say so"... For saying that alone, the man should have been pulled out of the chair by his fu*king ear and thrown through the studio window.

That should be all over the news.

He is a sick [EMAIL="f@#ker"]f@#ker[/EMAIL]. All those union guys are the same. They came down to our site to get our guys to strike. They ever started to picket outside and they do not have any members there.

Then they started throwing stuff at one of our lads going home from work. He was sorry he didn't video them.

Darragh29

wexford202 wrote: »

That should be all over the news.

He is a sick [EMAIL="f@#ker"]f@#ker[/EMAIL]. All those union guys are the same. They came down to our site to get our guys to strike. They ever started to picket outside and they do not have any members there.

Then they started throwing stuff at one of our lads going home from work. He was sorry he didn't video them.

You can hear it on the podcast on www.rte.ie, just go into radio and pick "Pat Kenny Show"... Couldn't believe what I was hearing, that's up there with outrageous statements like, "do you know who I am", etc... I'd love to take the likes of Eamon Devoy and put them in charge of a struggling business for a day and see how they cope with 20,000 Euro uncleared funds in the bank and 25K of cheques to be written for today...

These guys are living in some sort of twlight zone/parallel universe...

wexford202

They sneal onto site without signing on.

They creep around trying to nab electricians all the time. The managed to get past security on one of our sites and went up to the foreman and said I am sick of all you country lads taking our work.

The foreman looked puzzled and said do you know a country man owns this site and development.

They constantly ring and try to bully you into giving information. I know a contractor that was misled into giving them info and lthough he was pretty above board they still found ways of taking alot of money off him for nonsense things like train fares etc.

It is not the employers obligation to sort each employees contributions to the unions each month. If I was the employer I would be telling my employees to sort their own contributions. I would like to see how many of them go out of their way each month to pay the contributions.

sparkzter

I am an out of work electrician and we are not highest paid on every site, maybe yours wexford. They are in the right legally. The pay increase is from an agreement within the labour courts dating back to 2007. I notice nobody has mentioned TV3's Vincent Browne show last night where he berated the ECA (Electrical contractors assosiation) that broke the contract and stole the electricians money. All the fat cats from REA (Registered employers agency), ECA have been paid very self generously, More than an electrician could ever earn. There was no crisis in 2007 and therein lies the problem.
This bad timing of action is no coincidence. A proposed pay cut by the REA has been mentioned at a staggering 21% decrease. Nobody in any other occupation would take this lyeing down.
I personally think it's madness striking in this economic climate but that is the unions call, not the electricians. We have to stand by the union because its there fault we are tied to the REA's shackles. The union got into a double bed with them in 1990 when they should have stayed in two singles i feel. We are stuck with this agreement and it's not us that has broken our contractual obligation. It's the ECA and REA

bladespin

Why didn't the Union force the rise in 2007? If they let it go then then it's their fault, the electricians should by rights be protesting the union not the sites that are actually still providing jobs.

sparkzter

bladespin wrote: »

Why didn't the Union force the rise in 2007? If they let it go then then it's their fault, the electricians should by rights be protesting the union not the sites that are actually still providing jobs.

The union have been persueing and warning the ECA of the unrest since then. We don't just strike as a knee jerk reaction, In fact we have never been on strike since 1990, although we have had reason to through losing certain benefits such as pension payments. I am not particulary happy with our union over this but there has been no unrest for a long time and they have served a purpose.

Andy18

I am also an electrician and before people come out with stupid comments like "Electricians are the highest paid skilled trade in the construction indusrty at the minute" should do their homework because we are far from it plumbers etc are higher paid so you obviously dont have a clue what your talking about you should educate yourself about the situation before you make comments about us also this strike is not only about pay there's many other issues apprentices could be looking at over 30% decrease in pay in certain conditions for example.

wexford 202 - if you work on site you should know yourself if the teeu fail in their bid to keep their agreement all the agreements within the construction sector will be next to go so you will then be directly affected and you wont be so quick to criticise. the cif want the wages dropped across the board and the electricians are first to be targeted if everyone in the country has the mentality that "ANYONE WITH A JOB SHOULD BE GRATEFUL TO HAVE IT" and we should abandon our agreements it'll be a race to the bottom and all employees will be on minimum wage while employers and the cif line their pockets. i am greatful to have a job but we have to look after the bigger picture and stand up for our rights.

Bladespin: I dont earn near 800 a week none of the sparks in my company do so your assesment of our pay is completly wrong.

Finally eamonn devoy may have said some harsh things but what about tom parlon saying today 'we cannot let the lunatics be in charge'. this was a rediculous comment to make he's resorted to name calling now, this shouldn't be the kind of comments he should be coming out with after all he will eventually have to negotiate with theese "lunatics"

The Electrical Contractors Association (ECA), CIF, Electrical Contractors Of Ireland (AECI) and The National Electrical Contractors Ireland (NECI) are the ones to blame for this strike they refused to negotiate terms forcing us into this position theese contractors are also relying on tom parlon for help dont forget,

"In May 2009, the Sunday Independent newspaper reported that Parlon was raising a warchest from developers to oppose the formation of the National Asset Management Agency and potentially take a legal action against it.

He hoped that each member of CIF would pay €2,000 into the fund. The foundation of a sub-committee within CIF and the collection of the €2,000 levy was opposed by the Irish Property Council which stated: It is not understood if or how a sub-committee of the CIF has a mandate which allows it represent property developers in all of the current areas of concern as against the interests of the construction industry as a whole".

Theese are the people who helped bring down the country and now want the average middle earning person take pay cuts and slash working conditions so they can line their pockets once again while we are the ones to suffer. Its time we stood up for ourselves and we wont give in we have to stand strong and stand up for our rights.

darcy.jonny

no sympathy for the electricans at all .... from a plumber

theres thousands of construction workers unemployed at the moment ..... there are cuts in wages across the board including ministers and even some judges are taking the cuts

to be honest this stinks of a bad plan to be honest .

looking for the increase is just a way of trying to stop ten percent pay cuts .

so enjoy your lil strike , ull be out of a job soon enough

and since when are these contractors lining there pockets ??? its clear and evident that the majority of contractors wernt making the huge money that was presumed .

simple maths can apply here ... less work .... large cuts in job pricing ....... insurance costs and tax rising ...... less profit

DAYDREAMERS .

Andy18

Plumbers have got their pay increases over the last three years so when you lose 10 percent you'll still have a higher rate than we do now never mind if we lose another 10%. you'll be complaining when they throw out your agreement with all your conditions. we're effectively losing 21% of course we're going to stand up for ourselves. Most plumbers are backing us because they know if our agreement fails theirs is in jepoardy and your naive to think this isint the case. if people like you keep trying to hinder the effort to stand up against employers and cif the whole construction industry will be a race to the bottom and employers will be paying minimum wage eventually.
we have to protect our agreements at all costs its the only thing that secures our wages and working conditions.

have a look around contractors and develoers have been lining their pockets for years its a big part of the reason our economy is falling into such a deep recession.

And the contractors are still submitting tenders based on the agreement they wont uphold so how are they losing out? they have been submitting tenders for the last three years based on our agreement rates but they've been paying us 11% less than this rate.

cutting employees pay is not going to solve this lack of work and everyone knows that.
Why should we take a pay cut when the employers are charging out based on the agreement they refuse uphold for the last three years they have been holding our money and when it was put to the chairman of the eca on the television last night why are they holding the money they owe us when they had charged out for it he was lost for words.

scorpioishere

To some of the lazy ****ers electricians, stop your silly strikes and go back and do something concrete. You should all be lucky to have a job while other people are struggling to make a living. You do get high wages and you want more.

One electrician came to my company to fix something minor and he took 3 hours to do it. During the three hours he went for smoke, talk on the phone, look around, walk, scratch his ass, have a coffee, look around, look at the manual as if he's making great effort. 3 hours of waste and you want more money. Get your ass to work before you are out.:mad:

scorpioishere

The Valley wrote: »

A major success by our electricians
* in putting irish electrical jobs/contracts at risk
* In putting irish jobs at risk - manufacturing jobs at plants that cannot have interuptions to their process

As all the international media report their demands they are damaging Ireland Inc and putting future foreign investment at risk.

Electricians do not have my backing, nor anybody I have talked to, so go back to work you bunch of tossers and be glad you have a job to go to.

And as a last rant, if you dont like the pay and conditions here, move over and let someone else take your position and piss off to somewhere else, may I suggest Poland (I hear the pay is very competitive there):mad:

Yeah if they don't like it move away and give the job to people who wants to work and who is happy on minimum wage.

darcy.jonny

tell ya what dont like the wages go and get a job doing something else .......................... oh wait there is no jobs out there .

and a ten percent pay cut is far better than being on the dole

and no it ant there fault that the ecomony is in bits its everybodys , typical irish attitude to strike thinking your actually owed something in life and sulk and winge about it

watch other countries come out of the recession over the next few years while were stuck in it , and y ?? because of employee and unions attitude ,our work foce wage demands are out through the roof compared to eu averages , which has made this country uncompetitive along with many other issues ........ but the biggest problem is labour costs for any business ............ ida did a lot of work getting these multi national companies to come here and because of people striking like these electricans nobody will come near this country again

Andy18

Why should we work for minimum wage? we're skilled tradesmen and we've earned our wages trust me its not an easy job and if you think that you dont have a clue what your talking about. its stupid to tar us all with the same brush because you saw one lazy electrician. i work very hard for my money and i'v been to college and earned my qualification so why should i not be paid what the agreement the employers signed says i should when all the other trades have had their agreements upheld.

sedgley

Although I think it's a bad idea at the moment, It's a democratic right to join a union. It's a democratic right to strike. I can say for sure that a friend of mine working for a large electrical contractor who is on temporary lay off was called today and offered his job back, as were over 50 others on lay off. They all said no. Now ALL the sparks from that firm have been temporarily layed off. You have to respect their solidarity all the same.

darcy.jonny

if times were not the way they are ild easily support the electricians completely ......................... but come on this is not the time to rock the boat ... ur in a sinking ship

scorpioishere

Why can't you work on minimum wage? If everybody who went to college think like you, well the country will be in recession for eternity.

ixoy

Andy18 wrote: »

Why should we work for minimum wage?

Who's suggest you do? 21e an hour is well above the minimum wage - it's a good wage by most yardsticks and 23e would be even better (never mind all the other costs that can be claimed according to other posters).

so why should i not be paid what the agreement the employers signed says i should when all the other trades have had their agreements upheld.

Because their pay increase came at a different time, when it was more affordable. Economic circumstances have changed - it's been on the news a bit - and so companies cannot all afford this. Sure, some contractors now might be able to but look at the next contract being tendered, see how they'll need to cut their prices and maybe now they'll decided to hire 60 works instead of 65 due to the costs, and that's five of you joining the dole.

Andy18

so would you as a plumber take a 21% pay cut and your current pay conditions slashed just to have a job, would you sell out your trade? or would you bite the bullet and stand up for yourself if we lose this your livleyhood will probably be threatened next and we'll see how you react.

I dont want to be on strike but im not going to sit back as my employers line their pockets at my expense we have to stand up for ourselves. I have seen support from plenty of plumbers over the last two days not one plumber has crossed a picket and they have expressed full support its a shame they have people like you with them who wont be willing to stand up against the employers when they try to take your wages and your work conditions down people like you will bring your own trade down

alphamale 1

I fully agree to you. There is over 400 k on the dole and they are looking for an increase. I thik the real motive behind it is the 3.5 % that the ESB granted themselves last January on top of their generoussalries. One wonders are the electricians too late in making this claim. I know several people ( including solicitors & electricians) who would gladly accept a 10 % pay cut to stay in work and not have to wait three months for Jobseekers

sedgley

scorpioishere wrote: »

Why can't you work on minimum wage? If everybody who went to college think like you, well the country will be in recession for eternity.

Electricians will never be on minimum wage, just like doctors and solicitors will never be. Why would you bother learning a trade when you could work in a spar shop for the same money?

Andy18

scorpioishere: what your saying is rediculous why would a skilled worker do a hard job for minimum wage and why should they have to?

ixoy: if our ageement is abolished whitch is what the employers union want there is nothing to stop employers from forcing lads to undercut one another eventually resulting in minimum wage

And OUR PAY INCRESE WAS DUE 3 YEARS AGO when times were good!!!. The employers have refused to pay it for the last three years. our union have been trying to negotiate this for 3 years, recently the employers said they wont talk to our union anymore knowing they were in a position of power due to the downturn. meanwhile they have been charging out based on this incresed rate that they wont pay us. They have been withholding our money for 3 years and now and now refuse to talk to us so we are forced into industrial action to get them back to the table.

As i said again we dont want to be on strike but they wont even talk to our union so why should we let them abolish our agreements make a mockery of our union and us by pocketing our money they've charged out on jobs for us and never paid us! if we let this happen where would it end?

sparkzter

darcy.jonny wrote: »

if times were not the way they are ild easily support the electricians completely ......................... but come on this is not the time to rock the boat ... ur in a sinking ship

Wonder how you would feel as a fellow tradesmen if your pay was not per agreement. Bad timing is not a reason not to be for or against this dispute. You say we're in a sinking ship, well throw us a lifeline so as we would you.


Scorpio, Why should skilled tradesmen work for minimum wage? Your argument is to say the least a load of bollox.


Sorry about the timing everyone but we are protesting about corporate theft. The relevant agencies are guilty, not electricians. As Andy says there are alot of other issues we are striking over, including owed pension payments for some lads amounting to thousands of euro. Wonder how you would feel, pissed off to say the least I'd imagine.

Spudmonkey

Andy18 wrote: »

so would you as a plumber take a 21% pay cut and your current pay conditions slashed just to have a job, would you sell out your trade? or would you bite the bullet and stand up for yourself if we lose this your livleyhood will probably be threatened next and we'll see how you react.

I dont want to be on strike but im not going to sit back as my employers line their pockets at my expense we have to stand up for ourselves. I have seen support from plenty of plumbers over the last two days not one plumber has crossed a picket and they have expressed full support its a shame they have people like you with them who wont be willing to stand up against the employers when they try to take your wages and your work conditions down people like you will bring your own trade down

What kind of crap is this? If an electrician took a 10% paycut, which is what CIF are looking for, electricians would be paid ~18 euro an hour. Oh to be paid 18 euro an hour...... and I work in a industry not too far from removed from an electrician. I also went to college for four years and have a very good degree!

While employers line their pockets? Oh yes because we all know they are making a killing now, sure hasn't business probably gone through the roof!! I mean they are probably inundated with business...

I predict this recession will last a long time!

the bolt

Andy18 wrote: »

scorpioishere: what your saying is rediculous why would a skilled worker do a hard job for minimum wage and why should they have to?

ixoy: if our ageement is abolished whitch is what the employers union want there is nothing to stop employers from forcing lads to undercut one another eventually resulting in minimum wage

And OUR PAY INCRESE WAS DUE 3 YEARS AGO when times were good!!!. The employers have refused to pay it for the last three years. our union have been trying to negotiate this for 3 years, recently the employers said they wont talk to our union anymore knowing they were in a position of power due to the downturn. meanwhile they have been charging out based on this incresed rate that they wont pay us. They have been withholding our money for 3 years and now and now refuse to talk to us so we are forced into industrial action to get them back to the table.

As i said again we dont want to be on strike but they wont even talk to our union so why should we let them abolish our agreements make a mockery of our union and us by pocketing our money they've charged out on jobs for us and never paid us! if we let this happen where would it end?

as someone who supports your strike can you tell me why your union didnt call this strike three years ago when the economy was in better condition and they needed you more than they do now? good luck.

the bolt

Spudmonkey wrote: »

What kind of crap is this? If an electrician took a 10% paycut, which is what CIF are looking for, electricians would be paid ~18 euro an hour. Oh to be paid 18 euro an hour...... and I work in a industry not too far from removed from an electrician. I also went to college for four years and have a very good degree!

While employers line their pockets? Oh yes because we all know they are making a killing now, sure hasn't business probably gone through the roof!! I mean they are probably inundated with business...

I predict this recession will last a long time!

why didnt you train as a sparky then?

Spudmonkey

Because I wouldn't have liked the job. Its not all about the money, if you start chasing money, you end up in something you don't like.

the bolt

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Because I wouldn't have liked the job. Its not all about the money, if you start chasing money, you end up in something you don't like.

fair enough but dont begruge the sparks whats due to them.

Andy18

First of all i suggest people read the full facts about this strike because as i state again its not just about pay there's plenty more conditions of the agreement employers want to be abolished if your close to the trade you should know this. this is about employers having total disregard for their employees and their unions they will tear up agreements if they're allowed proceed and if your close to the trade your agreement will also be boycotted by your employers if we fail in our action this will be a win for all employees in the constuction sector if we are successful as it shows employers they cant just disregard long standing agreements within the industry i agree that we all have to give and take to get through this hard time but letting employers abolosh agreements and cut out our unions will leave us helpless. this should have been resolved by negotiations between unions and employers a long time ago but the employers decided to use the recession to their advantage to screw us. they thought we'd never go on strike and they'd get their way. we have recieved massive support over the last two days from the other trades at pickets and SIPTU backed us and now ICTU backed us at half 7 this evening, as a result the employers are now ready to talk, hopefully an agreement is reached tomorrow that is fair to both sides and the electricians will be there to back the other trades if your agreements are breached.

Mario007

firstly i would like to say there really shouldnt be an agreement like the one reached between employers and unions in this case where a pay rise or pay decrease is agreed up on and signed. the pay conditions should be flexed with regards to the market condition, because thats the fairest way forward.
secondly this strike will determine the importance of unions in ireland, if they loose it, thats probably the beginning of an end of greedy union power, so I do hope they will loose it.
thirdly ask any of the 400 000 people on the dole, many of which are also qualified and out of college, to sing up for a job with €21 an hour and with a decrease of 10% in that rate and they would think you their savior.
true the agreement was reached and legally the electricians are entitled to an 11% increase, but right now people everywhere are suffering, even politicians are decreasing their pay, so calling a strike for a pay increase is quite ludicrous and ridiculous.

Conar

Andy18 wrote: »

First of all i suggest people read the full facts about this strike because as i state again its not just about pay there's plenty more conditions of the agreement employers want to be abolished if your close to the trade you should know this.

That may well be so but why is it that all the union representatives seem to talk about on the radio is the money then.
If its really about other things then they should drop the pay increases and try to get their other conditions agreed. I for one would have a lot more sympathy for people striking over withheld pensions than fools chasing money that doesn't exist.

Andy18 wrote: »

this is about employers having total disregard for their employees

The funny thing is, most people (that I have spoken to) think that this is about unions flexing their muscles and living in the clouds.
Its about time that unions stepped back and had a reality check IMO.

I also think all these pay deals should be scrapped. I'm open to debate on the point but I feel that wages should be market driven. If people are willing to work for a given wage then the wage is likely fair, if not then the employer needs to up wages to get the staff they need.

I've never worked in a company that pay everyone the same rate and I'd really hate it. Socialism doesn't work and people that work twice as hard as the guy next to them deserve to negotiate a better rate. Its held me in good stead so far.

Mario007

Conar wrote: »

I also think all these pay deals should be scrapped. I'm open to debate on the point but I feel that wages should be market driven. If people are willing to work for a given wage then the wage is likely fair, if not then the employer needs to up wages to get the staff they need.

I've never worked in a company that pay everyone the same rate and I'd really hate it. Socialism doesn't work and people that work twice as hard as the guy next to them deserve to negotiate a better rate. Its held me in good stead so far.

exactly, but for that we need our own Thatcher to kick out these radical lefties ideologies and along with them the supreme power of the unions!

Andy18

read up on how the increase is calculated its not just a set ammount it is calculated by taking wages from across the sector and we get the average of those wages.

I understand people are desperate for jobs and would take the cut but if we had no agreement people would be doing this and we would all be undercutting each other while the employers are sucking up the profits how does that help us?

And this recession isint the be all and end all when things turn around and employment rises again our trade will have been ruined if our agreements are gone.

Conar

Slightly off topic but a quick question regarding this 21% decrease thats thrown around.
Is it gotten by adding the proposed 10% decrease to the forgotten 11% increase?

If so its wrong. a drop from 111% to 90% is an 18.9% decrease in pay.
Maybe I'm wrong about where the 21% comes from but if not then its a fine example of the unions bolstering figures to exaggerate their claims.

Can anyone clarify?

Andy18

we've adressed this issue of looking like "money grabbers" with our union, This is about upholding agreements that the industry have been built on for years the agreements also work in favour of the employers dont forget they've been making 11% exra on every man because the charge out based on our agreements. they'll never be completly abolished but the employers would just write a new one completly in their favour if we didn't use industrial action. people that work hard in my profession become chargehands and foreman and do get on higher rates.

irish_bob

the bolt wrote: »

why didnt you train as a sparky then?

i know this post wasnt aimed at me but i just had to butt in

electricians were ten a penny during the boom ( every 2nd young fella who left school in my area became one ) and they are ten a penny on the dole now , supply is vastly exceeding demand , one would think sparkys were soldiers circa 1939 , sorry , most of you are not needed now

Conar

Andy18 wrote: »

I understand people are desperate for jobs and would take the cut but if we had no agreement people would be doing this and we would all be undercutting each other while the employers are sucking up the profits how does that help us?

I don't agree with this at all.
Its this mentality that made us uncompetative and overpriced.

If a building firms staffing costs are lower then the person/company requiring the building work demands a lower price and the employers don't suck off any extra profits, value returns.

Peoples wage increases have only lead to higher prices on the high streets and the housing market because we had more to spend. The higher high street prices forced up the minimum wage requirements continueing the spiralling uncompetative costs of Ireland Inc.
I'm no economist but I think this is the wrong way to run a country.

Andy18

with the taxes rising and the wages dropping how will people be able to afford to live cutting peoples wages and rising taxes is not the answer to our problems.

Mario007

Conar wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all.
Its this mentality that made us uncompetative and overpriced.

If a building firms staffing costs are lower then the person/company requiring the building work demands a lower price and the employers don't suck off any extra profits, value returns.

Peoples wage increases have only lead to higher prices on the high streets and the housing market because we had more to spend. The higher high street prices forced up the minimum wage requirements continueing the spiralling uncompetative costs of Ireland Inc.
I'm no economist but I think this is the wrong way to run a country.

yes, basically we created our own inflation and from that came higher minimum wage, wage increases in other sector and from that came more inflation and we were caught in a circle and paying for it right now.
but this is the kind of thinking thats, unfortunately, still around. here on boards there was a thread recently about employees seeking higher wages so that they can pay the higher taxes and thus wouldnt have to cut back on their luxury, for example

ixoy

Andy18 wrote: »

with the taxes rising and the wages dropping how will people be able to afford to live cutting peoples wages and rising taxes is not the answer to our problems.

Not entirely no - but you're aware of how inflation works, yeah? Let's say you get your increase. Then some other group thinks "Well what about us? I want some of that. Let's show those fat cats!" and also make demands. Some can be met, some can't - the problem is by demanding a unilateral rate, you'll find other places won't be willing to pay for it and won't employ you. Others will raise their prices to compensate and thus in turn be even less competitive than they are. It's a large part of why there's 400k on the dole and we don't need to make it worse.

With respect to this "being due", the merits of that were based on previous economic conditions. Market factors need to dictate affordability of wages otherwise we price ourselves out. All these agreements should be conditional (as I believe the national wage agreement is) with relevant clauses. Maybe the Landsdown Road site can afford the pay, but there's many others who will not and you're just shooting yourself in the foot, and others, further down the line.

Conar

Andy18 wrote: »

with the taxes rising and the wages dropping how will people be able to afford to live cutting peoples wages and rising taxes is not the answer to our problems.

1. Prices in the shops are dropping
2. Interest rates are lower, that helps.
3. We were overpriced and the only way to resolve that is by taking a hit. Burying our heads in the sand won't fix anything.

I'm willing to pay a lot more tax, unfortunately I just don't trust our current government to spend it wisely. Lets be honest here too, I don't think anyone earning over 10 euro an hour is going to starve. Maybe the government will have to help some people with their mortgages but thats a different story.
People need to move away from 3 year interest free credit deals on couches and credit card holidays and get some reality back in their lives.

schumacher

The electricians shouldnt be allowed to hold the country to ransom like this putting other jobs at risk. Not many people are going to have sympathy for them striking in such a difficult economic climate. If the government/labour realtions give in to these they will be giving in to all groups that come before the labour relations seeking a wage increase. Most people are taking wage cuts not increases ffs.

Spudmonkey

Andy18 wrote: »

I understand people are desperate for jobs and would take the cut but if we had no agreement people would be doing this and we would all be undercutting each other while the employers are sucking up the profits how does that help us?

And this recession isint the be all and end all when things turn around and employment rises again our trade will have been ruined if our agreements are gone.

Where are all these profits you are talking about? Are you getting more work than last year? Cause I hear some are struggling to get any work at all. You need work to make profit.

When is this recession going to turn around? Because when the same thing happened in Sweden in the early 90's, it took some 16 years to get out of it. Many say ours is far worse than theirs.

Andy18 wrote: »

with the taxes rising and the wages dropping how will people be able to afford to live cutting peoples wages and rising taxes is not the answer to our problems.

Its actually the only option we have at the moment, so yes it is.

oldboy

The TEEU has claimed massive support from other unions including Siptu and Unite and also called for Congress to back a nationwide strike in solidarity.

They are seeking a €2.49-an-hour pay rise on standard wages of €21.49 an hour.

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/electricians-vow-to-keep-up-strike-action-417812.html#ixzz0Kc2u0ySg&C


GET BENT, you've no support from me, none of you sparkys do

Picking the middle of a recession to fight your battles because you think you'll have the employers over your knee is a scummy tactic, and its about time the power hungry money grabbing unions got what they deserve

barefeet

Very intelligent contribution. If electrical contractors are allowed break agreements what's to stop other contractors following suit. Remember this began in 2007 work was plentiful then. From what I can gather, electricians aren't looking for more. Contractors want them to take a pay cut not a pay freeze when they haven't even got what was due to them in the first place. When times were good how many contractors passed on their good fortune, employees still just got their regular wages.

Fluffybums

The sparkys are owed the pay rise. I'm sure the some of contractors did include the higher rate in their tenders during the last three years and pocketed the difference.
They should get the pay rise.

BUT...... the money has been blown, it is gone, too much of the economy was built on a pile of sand and it blew away. So take your pay rise with my blessing, you are due it under the agreement.

BUT don't come back on here complaining because the contractor you work for has gone bust, the smaller guys will because they can't borrow money from the banks to cover them in the short term (read the papers rather than take my word for it). The bigger guys will survive but are there enough of them to employ everyone that is currently employed?

And as for this recession being over in the 18 to 24 months, when you can get an experience graduate for less than a newly qualified electrician in the UK (check out New Scientist Jobs), why the hell would anyone want to site their business in Ireland? Never mind the cost of employing people and doing business in the near and far east (these are, in reality, our competitors).


Enjoy your pay rise, you are owed it - there is little doubt about it.

Conar

barefeet wrote: »

When times were good how many contractors passed on their good fortune, employees still just got their regular wages.

I reckon we all had it too good for the last few years.
I'm sick of hearing all these sob stories about how the banks and developers creamed it for the last few years, as if the rest of us were akin to the slaves that built the pyramids.

How many people in Ireland were going on multiple holidays per year, upgrading to LCD/Plasmas, moving to a bigger house, the list goes on.

We all had it better than we deserved and its caught up on us, end of story.
Now those of us lucky enough to still have jobs have to accept some extra pain, there's no other way around it.

I just hope that the government grows some balls and tackles this recession before it gets too late.