Apophis

Overblood

For those of you who aren't sure of what Apophis is (no not the god), have a quick gander at this 'tube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o

So even though the meteor has a small enough chance of hitting Earth (an absolutely massive chance compared to winning the lotto btw...), why would god send this threat to us from space? Why would he even permit this in all his omni-whatnots? We won't know for definite if it will impact Earth until 2029, when it passes under our satellites and gives us a chance to predict it's return with 100% accuracy(it will be back in 2036) , but let's just say that the chance of impact is pretty high.

There's a 350m wide rock heading towards us at 1800km/h, and you still like to praise the god who created this universe for you. Does this mean anything to you and your beliefs?

Or maybe this is the end times? Or something?

Zombrex

I would imagine this falls under the "why does God allow Earthquakes" debate. There was a thread about this a few weeks ago.

Mickeroo

Big deal, one asteroid, they dont mention the few near misses we have every year that nobody knows about til after they've happened, the fact that they've spotted this one so early is a miracle in itself.

Zombrex

As soon as Bruce Willis dies we are screwed ...

Overblood

Wicknight wrote: »

I would imagine this falls under the "why does God allow Earthquakes" debate. There was a thread about this a few weeks ago.

Earthquakes happen and then we get to ask retrospective questions about it. We aren't told in advance on the 9 o' clock news that there will be an earthquake at 2pm next friday. Now we know that doom is on it's way. We can see it moving towards us:



As I said it's a small chance, but just because this time we can see a major disaster approaching, I thought that there maybe a different twist on the "why did god give jimmy cancer" question.

Mickeroo wrote: »

Big deal, one asteroid, they dont mention the few near misses we have every year that nobody knows about til after they've happened, the fact that they've spotted this one so early is a miracle in itself.

I know, they must have spotted it by pure chance, anyway wtf? I post on a Christian forum and I get nothing but atheist replies... will ye feck off!

TheManWho

Where am I looking, Is it the bright moving dot in the center, or the little one that disappears in the top right?

Overblood

TheManWho wrote: »

Where am I looking, Is it the bright moving dot in the center, or the little one that disappears in the top right?

The one in the center.

prinz

Because the universe is a finely tuned creation. Change any one little thing could have drastic knock on effects. Meteors/asteroids are necessary by products of the life of the universe anyway, so as a Christian if they found it was guaranteed to hit us I'd say meh, we had good innings..

On a side note, you seem to be asking why would God allow an asteroid to head for Earth? Yet the other question you brush aside as mere luck - why do we know years ahead of time that it is a possibility? Perhaps that was God levelling the odds.

Overblood

prinz wrote: »

Because the universe is a finely tuned creation. Change any one little thing could have drastic knock on effects.

It would still be a universe though wouldn't it?

prinz wrote: »

On a side note, you seem to be asking why would God allow an asteroid to head for Earth? Yet the other question you brush aside as mere luck - why do we know years ahead of time that it is a possibility? Perhaps that was God levelling the odds.

So he directs a comet at us, and then divinely intervenes by guiding an astronomers gaze towards it... what is this, some sort of game? A test?

prinz

Overblood wrote: »

It would still be a universe though wouldn't it?

But would all of the practically infinite conditions for life to exist as we know it today, exist?

Overblood wrote: »

So he directs a comet at us, and then divinely intervenes by guiding an astronomers gaze towards it... what is this, some sort of game? A test?

(a)Personally I don't believe God directs comets at us.(b) God could just be hinting that we should strive to learn more about the universe, perhaps it's a wake up call that something like this could finish us off and we should make the most of it while we have it, perhaps this has nothing to do with God whatsoever.

JimiTime

As someone with faith in God, i say 'Meh'. If the whole scientific world start saying, 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling'. I'd know they were either a)Wrong or b) God knows what he's doing. Either way, it wouldn't reduce me to panic. Its actually interesting, because alot of people talk about Christianity being about fear. Of course, its not, and its actually the complete opposite. Whether its the threat of Nuclear war, global warming, the sun running out of life or whatever. I am never in fear. So in turn, I wouldn't be anxious about this meteor which is supposedly on a crash course to earth.

Overblood

prinz wrote: »

But would all of the practically infinite conditions for life to exist as we know it today, exist?

For life as we know it, probably not. So what? Let's talk about the asteroid.

prinz wrote: »

(a)Personally I don't believe God directs comets at us.(b) God could just be hinting that we should strive to learn more about the universe, perhaps it's a wake up call that something like this could finish us off and we should make the most of it while we have it, perhaps this has nothing to do with God whatsoever.

Of course it has something to do with god. It's his universe isn't it? So you're not fazed at all by the fact that the god who lovingly designed the universe for you has allowed a hunk of rock to possibly smash into earth in 30 years time?

You know what? It may actually be the real Apophis...

Overblood

JimiTime wrote: »

As someone with faith in God, i say 'Meh'. If the whole scientific world start saying, 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling'. I'd know they were either a)Wrong or b) God knows what he's doing. Either way, it wouldn't reduce me to panic. Its actually interesting, because alot of people talk about Christianity being about fear. Of course, its not, and its actually the complete opposite. Whether its the threat of Nuclear war, global warming, the sun running out of life or whatever. I am never in fear. So in turn, I wouldn't be anxious about this meteor which is supposedly on a crash course to earth.

You're never in fear? The dangers you listed above are very hard to fear since they are all a bit distant. The sun running out of fuel in the next few billion years or so doesn't keep me awake at night either. Anyway I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by then.

So the threat of nuclear war doesn't scare you, but are you telling me that you wouldn't be scared if Europe and the USA were attacked by North Korean missiles tomorrow?

Fanny Cradock

So you are puzzled at why a God you don't believe in would send an asteroid that may not hit earth? Then you add something about nuclear war and the sun burning out for good measure. Oh, won't somebody think of the cildren!

The fact that you blame God for something that hasn't happened and then ignore the near misses that have occcured leads me to believe you are just here to troll. Can you not find something else to whine about?

wolfsbane

Overblood wrote: »

For those of you who aren't sure of what Apophis is (no not the god), have a quick gander at this 'tube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o

So even though the meteor has a small enough chance of hitting Earth (an absolutely massive chance compared to winning the lotto btw...), why would god send this threat to us from space? Why would he even permit this in all his omni-whatnots? We won't know for definite if it will impact Earth until 2029, when it passes under our satellites and gives us a chance to predict it's return with 100% accuracy(it will be back in 2036) , but let's just say that the chance of impact is pretty high.

There's a 350m wide rock heading towards us at 1800km/h, and you still like to praise the god who created this universe for you. Does this mean anything to you and your beliefs?

Or maybe this is the end times? Or something?

This specific threat may not come to anything, but it would fit well with the prophesied End Times. That is, not that it will destroy the earth, but it could be part of the signs in the heavens that will occur at the End Times:
Luke 21:7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven...
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Overblood

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

So you are puzzled at why a God you don't believe in would send an asteroid that may not hit earth? Then you add something about nuclear war and the sun burning out for good measure. Oh, won't somebody think of the children!

For this thread I'm "assuming" that god exists.

I just wanted to know what you guys thought about it. I'm not puzzled at all. But if I did believe in him/her/it, I can imagine myself asking why the heck his universe always trying to kill us. I picked this asteroid as an example because it's cool, and it's named after a god!

Also, Jimitime was the one who added the something about nuclear war etc.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The fact that you blame God for something that hasn't happened and then ignore the near misses that have occcured leads me to believe you are just here to troll. Can you not find something else to whine about?

I'm not whining, I'm asking for opinions. Of course I'm blaming god for this (as I said I'm assuming he exists for this thread), since god created everything, is omnipotent and omniscient and has a personal interest in human life, and he decides to place our planet in a region of space that's behaves the old arcade game Asteroids. Look at the state of the moon.

And so what if I didn't mention the near misses? How does that mean that I'm trolling?

JimiTime

Overblood wrote: »

You're never in fear? The dangers you listed above are very hard to fear since they are all a bit distant. The sun running out of fuel in the next few billion years or so doesn't keep me awake at night either. Anyway I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by then.

So the threat of nuclear war doesn't scare you, but are you telling me that you wouldn't be scared if Europe and the USA were attacked by North Korean missiles tomorrow?

What I don't fear, is the world being wiped out by something other than God, and if he uses meteors, lightening bolts, fireballs, garth brooks, whatever, I know he is loyal to his word, and his people. So I don't fear.

Húrin

Anthropogenic Global warming isn't a distant threat. It has been affecting people for years.

Mickeroo

JimiTime wrote: »

What I don't fear, is the world being wiped out by something other than God, and if he uses meteors, lightening bolts, fireballs, garth brooks, whatever, I know he is loyal to his word, and his people. So I don't fear.

Garth Brooks? He wouldn't would he? Give me fire and brimstone any day.

prinz

JimiTime wrote: »

Its actually interesting, because alot of people talk about Christianity being about fear. Of course, its not, and its actually the complete opposite.

One of the great ironies of life.The more of a relationship we have with a 'terrible, bloodthirsty, vengeful' God the less we worry about things beyond our control. Seems odd to me too.

Overblood wrote: »

You're never in fear?
So the threat of nuclear war doesn't scare you, but are you telling me that you wouldn't be scared if Europe and the USA were attacked by North Korean missiles tomorrow?

If... if.... if....maybe... if .....where would it all end.... what if India and Pakistan go to war, what if Tahiti invades Vanuatu... yawwwwn. Not to mention that Europe is perfectly safe from current North Korean missiles. :rolleyes: Isn't it usually Christians who get accused of peddling 'End is Nigh...' theories?

prinz

prinz wrote: »

But would all of the practically infinite conditions for life to exist as we know it today, exist?

Overblood wrote: »

For life as we know it, probably not. So what? Let's talk about the asteroid.

Well isn't life as we know it the whole point for Christians? So if asteroids and meteors are necessary to enable that then let 'em fly.

Fanny Cradock

Overblood wrote: »

How does that mean that I'm trolling?

OK, my accusation of trolling was too harsh; however, you are assuming that this asteroid is going to strike the earth and doom us all. Given that we don't know such things it seems like sensationalism on your part. Why not then assume that all the near misses where due to God? But if we are playing pretend, then I would ask why anyone would be bothered using their remaining days worrying about how Christians would deal with such things. If we are all about to die by asteriod (meaning there is no Christian God) then I would say let us eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

As for the universe trying to kill us, wouldn't that imply some sort of malicious intent on the part of a random and unguided universe? Again, given that you don't believe in God, then it really is just sensationalism on your part to impart the universe with intent. However, if you are still playing pretend, then you simply accept that God isn't trying to kill us because a notion contrarty to this doesn't fit in with what Christians believe about God.

JimiTime

Mickeroo wrote: »

Garth Brooks? He wouldn't would he? Give me fire and brimstone any day.

Thats what awaits the heathens man. Garth Brooks and Billy Ray Cyrus all day every day. Now, about that baptism....:)

kelly1

Overblood wrote: »

There's a 350m wide rock heading towards us at 1800km/h, and you still like to praise the god who created this universe for you. Does this mean anything to you and your beliefs?

Or maybe this is the end times? Or something?

I've read a few prophesies about asteroids hitting earth as punishment for the sins of mankind. e.g. the prophesy of Our Lady of Akita, which incidentally has Church approval as being worthy of belief: http://olrl.org/prophecy/akita.shtml
The bible also predicts three days of darkness.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if God did decide to inflict this kind of punishment on mankind. The amount of sin in this world is staggering. I don't need to list them, just look at the news or read a newspaper. We live in a culture of death and perversion. The huge numbers of abortions alone would justify God's sending this punishment on us.

Zombrex

kelly1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be at all surprised if God did decide to inflict this kind of punishment on mankind. The amount of sin in this world is staggering.

Didn't he promise after the Flood that he would never do something like that again.

I suppose if we were all wiped out by a meteor strike one would have to question the existence of God. But we would all be dead, so it wouldn't matter :pac:

Overblood

prinz wrote: »

:rolleyes: Isn't it usually Christians who get accused of peddling 'End is Nigh...' theories?

Would you gowayowervit I'm not peddling any end time theories.

you are assuming that this asteroid is going to strike the earth and doom us all. Given that we don't know such things it seems like sensationalism on your part. Why not then assume that all the near misses where due to God? But if we are playing pretend, then I would ask why anyone would be bothered using their remaining days worrying about how Christians would deal with such things. If we are all about to die by asteriod (meaning there is no Christian God) then I would say let us eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Did I not mention that the chance of impact was very small? Twice I think? And then continue to say that just for the thread let's assume that the chance is high? I don't know how you see this is sensationalist.

And if you want, I can assume that all near misses were due to god, but it still isn't any reason to praise god. Why the hell did he allow asteroids to come so close in the first place? He's like a really bad parent.

As for the universe trying to kill us, wouldn't that imply some sort of malicious intent on the part of a random and unguided universe? Again, given that you don't believe in God, then it really is just sensationalism on your part to impart the universe with intent.

The universe isn't random and unguided, god designed it and knows full well what's going on (remember I'm pretending to believe).

However, if you are still playing pretend, then you simply accept that God isn't trying to kill us because a notion contraty to this doesn't fit in with what Christians believe about God.

But I couldn't accept that, and I don't see how any of you could accept that god is not trying to kill us. The configuration of gods Earth right now is like me setting up an ant farm and then throwing rocks at it from a distance of 50m. Some might hit it, most will be near misses. It doesn't make sense.

Overblood

kelly1 wrote: »

I've read a few prophesies about asteroids hitting earth as punishment for the sins of mankind. e.g. the prophesy of Our Lady of Akita, which incidentally has Church approval as being worthy of belief: http://olrl.org/prophecy/akita.shtml
The bible also predicts three days of darkness.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if God did decide to inflict this kind of punishment on mankind. The amount of sin in this world is staggering. I don't need to list them, just look at the news or read a newspaper. We live in a culture of death and perversion. The huge numbers of abortions alone would justify God's sending this punishment on us.

Ok so the asteroid could be a punishment, fair enough. Like punishing a dog for pooing on a carpet. (except I wouldn't kill a dog..)

But anyways, nice simple answer. Would the rest of the christians here agree that a meteor impact would be a direct punishment from god?

prinz

Overblood wrote: »

Would you gowayowervit I'm not peddling any end time theories.

..........but we should all live in fear of what might happen right? Isn't that what you're saying

Overblood wrote: »

The universe isn't random and unguided, god designed it and knows full well what's going on (remember I'm pretending to believe).

How about you pretend to know the answer, because this isn't really going anywhere. Me thinks, you have an 'ideal' answer you're just waitng for someone to say so you have a stick to beat someone with.

Overblood wrote: »

But anyways, nice simple answer. Would the rest of the christians here agree that a meteor impact would be a direct punishment from god?

Possibly. Who knows. I don't blame God for natural disasters, so why would I in this case. Perhaps God got bored with protecting us and is just going to let one hit. Perhaps this asteroid has a purpose since the dawn of time, the sun has a purpose in our being, the moon has a purpose in our being etc.

kelly1

Wicknight wrote: »

Didn't he promise after the Flood that he would never do something like that again.

I believe God promised not to flood the world again.

Overblood wrote: »

Ok so the asteroid could be a punishment, fair enough. Like punishing a dog for pooing on a carpet. (except I wouldn't kill a dog..)

I think we basically underestimate the enormity of sin. Sin is so serious a matter that God sent His only Son to die at the hands of men to atone for our sins! The condescension and humility of Jesus is mind boggling when you think about it. God could have destroyed the entire universe when the majority of mankind rebelled against Him but instead He showed His mercy by saving mankind from the mess they themselves made. God bailed us out!

Overblood wrote: »

But anyways, nice simple answer. Would the rest of the christians here agree that a meteor impact would be a direct punishment from god?

The way I look at it, if we were living according to God's plan, God would avert all such disasters. Why would He allow us to suffer if we loved Him?

prinz

kelly1 wrote: »

God could have destroyed the entire universe when the majority of mankind rebelled against Him but instead He showed His mercy by saving mankind from the mess they themselves made. God bailed us out!

We're the bankers and builders squandering and ruining, God is the government bailing us out of the mess we got ourselves into by falling into the trap that we're invincible, and Jesus was His N.A.M.A., taking our sins unto himself.

The recession of morality and love.

Fanny Cradock

Overblood wrote: »

But anyways, nice simple answer. Would the rest of the christians here agree that a meteor impact would be a direct punishment from god?

No. Just like a cancer or an earthquake aren't either.

kelly1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

No. Just like a cancer or an earthquake aren't either.

Why not? God created the universe and knew beforehand that an asteroid would hit earth. Thing is an asteroid has no free-will so it's going to happen whether we like it or not and God knows this.

I think all suffering is a consequence of sin.

prinz

kelly1 wrote: »

Why not? God created the universe and knew beforehand that an asteroid would hit earth. Thing is an asteroid has no free-will so it's going to happen whether we like it or not and God knows this.

I think all suffering is a consequence of sin.

If God knew beforehand it would hit Earth, how would a sinful nature, or lack of then effect it? It is going to happen as you say whether we like it or not eventually, so how does sin effect the outcome?

Sometimes good people suffer... if you say they are suffering because of the sins of others -> does that mean they have taken the sins of others unto themselves, such as a sickness etc, isn't that what Jesus did - and if so, what would make Jesus unique then?

Fanny Cradock

kelly1 wrote: »

I think all suffering is a consequence of sin.

I'd agree, but that doesn't have to mean that God is actively punishing people through every sickness and disaster. Such things are a consequence of a fallen world, not an answer to it.

kelly1

prinz wrote: »

If God knew beforehand it would hit Earth, how would a sinful nature, or lack of then effect it? It is going to happen as you say whether we like it or not eventually, so how does sin effect the outcome?

OK, let me modify my hypothesis

I think if mankind in general turned away from sin, God would avert these disasters. Why wouldn't He?

Fanny Cradock

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, let me modify my hypothesis

I think if mankind in general turned away from sin, God would avert these disasters. Why wouldn't He?

Because the wole point of a new heaven and a new earth is that there is no need to divert killer asteroids as they wont be there.

prinz

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, let me modify my hypothesis

I think if mankind in general turned away from sin, God would avert these disasters. Why wouldn't He?

Because they are only 'disasters' in our human eyes. The universe is unfathomably complex and perfectly, IMO, created. I think the odd earthquake, volcano or asteroid are a small price to pay for creation as a whole.

If you put it like this, earthquakes are a necessary 'evil', without them the earth wouldn't be the earth..

kelly1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Because the wole point of a new heaven and a new earth is that there is no need to divert killer asteroids as they wont be there.

Huh? We haven't reached the end of the world yet.

prinz wrote: »

Because they are only 'disasters' in our human eyes. The universe is unfathomably complex and perfectly, IMO, created. I think the odd earthquake, volcano or asteroid are a small price to pay for creation as a whole.

Try telling that to the victims of the tsunami.

prinz

kelly1 wrote: »

Try telling that to the victims of the tsunami.

What would you rather we tell them - ye brought this on yourself because of your sinful nature? God's punishing you for the sins of others..........


Natural disasters happen, but they happen for a reason, to balance the books of nature. The tsunami happened because of an earth quake, the earth quake happened because of a shift in plates, without the various plates 'floating' on the liquid core, i.e. a solid crust... the earth would be instable and unsustainable. That's not to say they don't cause suffering and pain, they do.

Mickeroo

JimiTime wrote: »

Thats what awaits the heathens man. Garth Brooks and Billy Ray Cyrus all day every day. Now, about that baptism....:)

Already baptised my good man! I may have just rediscovered my faith.......dawkins never said i would have to but up with country music. :pac:

MrPudding

prinz wrote: »

If God knew beforehand it would hit Earth, how would a sinful nature, or lack of then effect it? It is going to happen as you say whether we like it or not eventually, so how does sin effect the outcome?

God is all seeing and all knowing. He exists out of time. Presumably at the point of creation, knowing even then (but obviously choosing not to do anything about it) the amount of sinning we would do he set in motion the physics required to deliver, potentially, a comet to destroy us in around 30 years time. I suppose that is the advantage of knowing everything and existing outside of time. You just need to kick the whole thing off and walk away.

prinz wrote: »

Sometimes good people suffer... if you say they are suffering because of the sins of others -> does that mean they have taken the sins of others unto themselves, such as a sickness etc, isn't that what Jesus did - and if so, what would make Jesus unique then?

Christian in "Hold on a minute, this does not make sense" shocker.

MrP

Fanny Cradock

kelly1 wrote: »

Huh? We haven't reached the end of the world yet.

My reading of this thread was that we had apparently reached the end of the earth.

prinz

MrPudding wrote: »

You just need to kick the whole thing off and walk away.

Except God didn't just 'walk away'...

MrPudding wrote: »

Christian in "Hold on a minute, this does not make sense" shocker.

What I posted makes perfect sense to me. What doesn't make sense to me is collective responsibility, given that we're all given charge of our own soul to begin with. To say that people die in natural disasters because of the sins of others . IMO a natural disaster, is exactly that, a feature of nature, like the wind or the rain. If people die it is a tragedy but I don't see their deaths as atoning for the sins of man in general. tbh that would leave me with a very uneasy feeling. Reminds me of the thing kids used to say 'everytime you tell a lie God kills a kitten'.

Overblood

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

My reading of this thread was that we had apparently reached the end of the earth.

Ah for feck sake come on now.

prinz

Overblood wrote: »

why would god send this threat to us from space? Why would he even permit this in all his omni-whatnots?
There's a 350m wide rock heading towards us at 1800km/h, and you still like to praise the god who created this universe for you. Does this mean anything to you and your beliefs?
Or maybe this is the end times? Or something?

Overblood wrote: »

You're never in fear? The dangers you listed above are very hard to fear since they are all a bit distant.

Overblood wrote: »

I can imagine myself asking why the heck his universe always trying to kill us.

Wicknight wrote: »

Didn't he promise after the Flood that he would never do something like that again.I suppose if we were all wiped out by a meteor strike one would have to question the existence of God.

Overblood wrote: »

Ah for feck sake come on now.

O sorry, have you not been reading the thread you started? And none of them posted by Christians... interesting. Maybe this is the end times indeed, funny they were your exact words.

wolfsbane

Overblood wrote: »

Ok so the asteroid could be a punishment, fair enough. Like punishing a dog for pooing on a carpet. (except I wouldn't kill a dog..)

But anyways, nice simple answer. Would the rest of the christians here agree that a meteor impact would be a direct punishment from god?

Yes, it could be - just as any natural disaster or even sickness could be a direct punishment from God for the individual's sin.

But it may be nothing to do with the individual - or rather the individual may be implicated only so far as being a member of a fallen community. God visits judgements on nations, not all of whom are individually guilty.

Mankind in general is in rebellion against God and sickness and death are our lot. International disasters too. An asteriod hit would be in that category.

Fanny Cradock

Overblood wrote: »

Ah for feck sake come on now.

OK, let's clear things up.

First, the reality check. You propose the scenario of the Apophis asteroid striking the earth. However, NASA seem to think that its probability of striking the earth is 1 in 45,000. In other words, it fits into the Torino Impact Hazard Scale of 0, which is to say: "the likelihood of a collision is zero, or is so low as to be effectively zero." Anything you have stated up to this point in terms of the threat seems to fall short of the actual probability of this particular rock hitting the world. Really, there are enough bad things happening in this world to concern ourselves without then worrying about statistically abstract threats.

If we ignore the above predictions and step into the world of pretend, you then ask in your OP how this strike affect our beliefs and then go on to question whether this impact could be associated with millennial beliefs, i.e. end times. And you are then taken aback when I associate your scenario with as much and challenge it. Very odd that!

OK, assuming this asteroid isn't ushering in the end of the world, and ignoring whatever tangle it is you have gotten yourself wrapped up in, how is your scenario any different from any other given disaster or illness? We have had innumerable discussions on this forum about tsunamis, earthquakes, cancer or whatever other present horror you care to mention. Not all these disasters are unexpected or unpreventable and not all illnesses are a surprise.

If you are just looking for an answer to an age old question: what about suffering, evil and other bad stuff like death? Then I suggest you read something by Os Guinness or Peter Kreeft or listen to a few of their talks on the Veritas forum or their own web pages. These are but two of the many people who have attempted to tackle the problem.

Again, I'll throw in another 2 cent and say that I don't accept that God sends these things as punishment; they are a result of the universe we live in. Much more could be said on this view – I don't pretend that it's wrapped up in a neat package - and that's why you should check out what people like Guinness and Kreeft have to say for themselves. However, I get the impression this type of view is to be ignored because it's much more interesting to have it out with someone who thinks that God enjoys a jolly good smiting.

Finally, if you are pretending to accept the existence of God - and I have to assume that it's the Christian God given the forum you are posting in - then it seems telling to me that you would automatically assume that this supposedly loving Creator is actually some cosmic tormentor firing rocks at us. Why not assume otherwise? Again, what about all the near misses? If you pretend believe in God then why not pretend to believe that bad things are simply a consequence of sin and that God had a plan though Jesus to put things like killer asteroids, suffering and death right? After all, this seems to be the basic premise of Christianity.

I think the answer is to the above is because you aren't really aren't pretending to be a believer - certainly not in any objective sense. Rather, you approach the problem of bad stuff happening with the same presuppositions that you have when you aren't playing make believe. In other words, as a pretend believer you start from the basis that God and his universe are out to get us or punish us and ignore the other possibilities.

Genghiz Cohen

prinz wrote: »

Not to mention that Europe is perfectly safe from current North Korean missiles. :rolleyes: Isn't it usually Christians who get accused of peddling 'End is Nigh...' theories?

Derpderpderp



If I build a house with a roof that I know is going to fall in and kill someone, it is my fault and my doing.
God created the universe as it is, he a effectively sent all disaster, disease and all of the other badness to us. It is His doing, and you worship this monster?

prinz

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Derpderpderp



If I build a house with a roof that I know is going to fall in and kill someone, it is my fault and my doing.
God created the universe as it is, he a effectively sent all disaster, disease and all of the other badness to us. It is His doing, and you worship this monster?

Wow a map of the world. From what I know at present the DPRK have no ICBM's. I'll say goodbye for now, you probably won't be posting here for a while.

Unsuccessfully tested Taepodong 2, possibility coverage area of south east asia, perhaps north and west of Canada/United States. So your little map is all wrong.

Genghiz Cohen

prinz wrote: »

Wow a map of the world. From what I know at present the DPRK have no ICBM's. I'll say goodbye for now, you probably won't be posting here for a while.

Unsuccessfully tested Taepodong 2, possibility coverage area of south east asia, perhaps north and west of Canada/United States. So your little map is all wrong.

1) It is little a map from little Gizmodo who quoted thebulletin.org It shows the expected strike capability of N.Korea. Have a little read.
2) N.Korea isolated itself for the rest of the world for years, you have no idea what they have in there.

Are you going to bet they don't have, or won't have in the near future something capable of striking within the second area on that map?

prinz

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

1) It is little a map from little Gizmodo who quoted thebulletin.org It shows the expected strike capability of N.Korea. Have a little read.
2) N.Korea isolated itself for the rest of the world for years, you have no idea what they have in there.

Are you going to bet they don't have, or won't have in the near future something capable of striking within the second area on that map?

Right. "Expected strike capability" - with no proof. Actually the longest range missile North Korea is currently known to possess and operate is the aforementioned Taepodong 2, which experts have assigned a practical use trajectory of 6,000 km. And even at that, no Taepodong 2 has ever been successfully tested by North Korea. Go by the facts and not the what ifs and maybes.