Do you have to give a Garda your date of birth if asked?

Esel

I know you are legally obliged to give a Garda your name and address if asked, but what is the position regarding your date of birth?

TheNog

The reason why we ask for DOB is cos there are thousands of Sean Murphy's, thousands of Mickey O'Toole's and thousands of John Smith's. Get all of them to move addresses and you have a mess.

DOBs help us to identify you and to get you on your way asap once you are not wanted or known to us.

norrie_1001

esel wrote: »

I know you are legally obliged to give a Garda your name and address if asked, but what is the position regarding your date of birth?

You are exactly right, legally you are only obliged to give name and address. There is no legal obligation to give your date of birth. Not many people know this, but the provo's used to and always put it up to members when asked for their date of birth.

mink_man

yes

upthedub

esel wrote: »

I know you are legally obliged to give a Garda your name and address if asked, but what is the position regarding your date of birth?

YES...does it make a difference anyway or are you one of these "im not giving it" to you..

pacman.podge

but do you only have to tell them anything if they arrest you?? i would have thought that other than that you would not have to tell them anything...... but i donno now ha

DubMedic

pacman.podge wrote: »

but do you only have to tell them anything if they arrest you?? i would have thought that other than that you would not have to tell them anything...... but i donno now ha

The only reason AGS will arrest you is because they have reason to do so.

I.e. you have committed an offense witnessed by AGS , or the Gda has reason/evidence to believe you have committed an offense.

Being an As**ole with the Gda won't get you very far in terms of courtesy they will show you.

A Garda will treat you with respect if you treat them with respect, none of this '' you're not getting it , I pay your wages. '' will get you anywhere.

All the Gda is asking is a simple name , address , and d.o.b , if needed.

Joe Bloggs, 123 Fake Street, 1/1/11.
'' Here is some ID to say I am Joe ''.

It's the Gardaí for god sake . There to protect you , in the best interests of you and others safety.

Why can't the public treat AGS with the respect they deserve, they are people like yourselves whether they are in or out of uniform after all.

.

Esel

upthedub wrote: »

YES...does it make a difference anyway or are you one of these "im not giving it" to you..

That's odd. The question I asked could not be answered by 'Yes' or 'No'. Anyway, to answer your question: no, I'm not. Now, a question for you.

Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Shield

Hi esel.

Can you phrase this question to upthedub in different words please? There are many ways it can be taken, and in order to maintain clarity, I'd like it if you could be a bit clearer about the nature of the problem and solution you speak of?

Thanks.

esel wrote: »

That's odd. The question I asked could not be answered by 'Yes' or 'No'. Anyway, to answer your question: no, I'm not. Now, a question for you.

Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Mr Jinx

esel wrote: »

That's odd. The question I asked could not be answered by 'Yes' or 'No'. Anyway, to answer your question: no, I'm not. Now, a question for you.

Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Now a question for you, why wouldn't you give youe name, address and D.O.B when asked, whats the big deal, what have you got to hide ?

Shield

Mr Jinx: That's not what esel said, and you cannot infer he has something to hide from something he didn't say.

Take this as a warning: Back off.

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Now a question for you, why wouldn't you give youe name, address and D.O.B when asked, whats the big deal, what have you got to hide ?

Esel

I'll try to explain what I meant by my question. The 'problem', as I see it, is the supercilious 'us and them' attitude adopted by many members of AGS when interacting with members of the public. While I have no way of knowing if upthedub is actually a member, I felt that this attitude was apparent in the phrasing of the question to me.

are you one of these "im not giving it" to you..

I would like to point out that I started this thread simply to seek clarification on whether or not there was a requirement to provide one's date of birth if asked for it.

Shield

Thanks for clearing that up. Do you feel your question has been answered to your satisfaction somewhere along the line?

esel wrote: »

I'll try to explain what I meant by my question. The 'problem', as I see it, is the supercilious 'us and them' attitude adopted by many members of AGS when interacting with members of the public. While I have no way of knowing if upthedub is actually a member, I felt that this attitude was apparent in the phrasing of the question to me. I would like to point out that I started this thread simply to seek clarification on whether or not there was a requirement to provide one's date of birth if asked for it.

Esel

If norrie_1001 is correct above, then yes, thanks.

corban

you are not obliged to give your DOB but in many cases if you dont you can be arrested to establish your identity. so its probably easier to do so at the start

noel32

lads ye dont have to give your name and address at all to a garda if he just asks you, there is no legal requirement, he can only ask you can refuse and he can do nothing about it, you only have to give name and address when thre is a requirment within some act of law, eg sec 107 of the road traffic act requires you to give name and address if memebr alleges rta offence to you, if you fail a power of arrest is there, or in the public order act if the member arrives on scene thinks you had some involvement there is a requirement to give name and address when demanded, etc, but you dont have to give it just when they ask off the cuff like,

goldie fish

noel32 wrote: »

lads ye dont have to give your name and address at all to a garda if he just asks you, there is no legal requirement, he can only ask you can refuse and he can do nothing about it, you only have to give name and address when thre is a requirment within some act of law, eg sec 107 of the road traffic act requires you to give name and address if memebr alleges rta offence to you, if you fail a power of arrest is there, or in the public order act if the member arrives on scene thinks you had some involvement there is a requirement to give name and address when demanded, etc, but you dont have to give it just when they ask off the cuff like,

For example if member of GS is chattin you up in coppers

Micky Dolenz

But surely if a member is not happy as to who you are, you will be held until you identity is known. If I were a member and had some guy that wouldn't give me innocent details I asked for, I would suspect that something was been hidden and the person may be wanted for one thing or another.

It's easier for everyone if co-operation and respect is had.

noel32

true but again twod have to be in an act where they were required to geive the name and address on demand, if a member just asks you for your name and address and they dont give it, well i know i certainley would'nt be arresting them or holding them against there will, gsoc would be banging down the door !!!!

Our man in Havana

I have never been asked for my DOB at any checkpoint. But then I has a very unusal name.

You are only legally obliged to give certain information as required under the Road Traffic Act 1961. Can the garda do anything if they refuse to answer things like "where are you going?" etc?

ch252

noel32 wrote: »

true but again twod have to be in an act where they were required to geive the name and address on demand, if a member just asks you for your name and address and they dont give it, well i know i certainley would'nt be arresting them or holding them against there will, gsoc would be banging down the door !!!!

I'm not sure as to the law but when I was working at a certain event in Galway doing first aid cover, a Garda stopped me from transporting a casualty to the medical centre because he wanted his name, date of birth, address and number and refused to let me take him or come with us, so there obviously is a law? He was (indirectly) involved in an altercation btw

DubMedic

darragh-k wrote: »

I'm not sure as to the law but when I was working at a certain event in Galway doing first aid cover, a Garda stopped me from transporting a casualty to the medical centre because he wanted his name, date of birth, address and number and refused to let me take him or come with us, so there obviously is a law? He was (indirectly) involved in an altercation btw

He/she has no right to do that afaik.

Unless that pt posed a real threat to you or your colleagues safety, then he must let the patient be treated for his injuries.

Especially if the patient is in an unstable, or potentially unstable state, or has had some sort of head injury.

He/she could have waited because you would have been getting all those details from the patient in anyways, for the patient report form.

.

ch252

dubmedic you are fully correct, the first aider is responsible for the patient, not the Gardai, with the exception mentioned in you post. I knew that at the time but it was only a very minor injury so I let it go because the medical centre was full up as it stood. I didn't want to start an arguement or anything on the street over it either, seemed likee a better idea to wait the couple of minutes than to make a scene I guess. Anybody else ever have this trouble?

TheNog

Bond-007 wrote: »

Can the garda do anything if they refuse to answer things like "where are you going?" etc?

No there is nothing we can do if a person refuses to answer general questions such as "Where are you going" or "where are coming from"

darragh-k wrote: »

I'm not sure as to the law but when I was working at a certain event in Galway doing first aid cover, a Garda stopped me from transporting a casualty to the medical centre because he wanted his name, date of birth, address and number and refused to let me take him or come with us, so there obviously is a law? He was (indirectly) involved in an altercation btw

DubMedic wrote: »

He/she has no right to do that afaik..

+1

A Garda would normally have no right to delay medical treatment of a patient except maybe in a case where another life was in danger and only if approval was first sought from a medical professional.

ch252

TheNog wrote: »

+1

A Garda would normally have no right to delay medical treatment of a patient except maybe in a case where another life was in danger and only if approval was first sought from a medical professional.

TheNog, do you know where I could find that in writing? I've only been doing this a short while and I'm still learning (and have alot to learn!) so I'm sure theres more where that rule came from and it might be no harm to read up on it

DrIndy

Sorry if I am dragging the thread off topic slightly - but the garda who delayed this was probably younger or just angry because of the situation - most gardai know will escort the patient to the medical centre if they suspect a crime and get details along the way (which is great for clearing any crowd away).

I have only had one incident ever where I have had to put a garda in his place for asking for medical information when a patient expressly refused me permission to do so. Normally when this happens, the fact that my hands are tied are respected and at the same time, I always strongly encourage any patients who were assaulted to have a few brief words with the gardai.

Medics/paramedics and gardai normally have a very good working relationship and you really feel a great sense of teamwork in our differing roles when there is a serious crime being treated/investigated. (they protect us and along the way receive information as they are in the same room)

DubMedic

darragh-k wrote: »

dubmedic you are fully correct, the first aider is responsible for the patient, not the Gardai, with the exception mentioned in you post. I knew that at the time but it was only a very minor injury so I let it go because the medical centre was full up as it stood. I didn't want to start an arguement or anything on the street over it either, seemed likee a better idea to wait the couple of minutes than to make a scene I guess.

Your personal safety comes first, then the safety of your crew , and then the safety of patient/other people.

/my End of OT.

.

Dawgslife

If a Garda is asking for your details there's prob a good reason. Getting your details means a Garda can follow you up at a later date if necessary. If the Garda has any doubt about your details he may arrest you (assuming he's talking to you for a reason in the first case, except in the case of the Road Traffic Acts where he/she can do it randomly) In the station you'll have to give all your details including date of birth. If the Garda is still not satisfied you'll most likely go to court in custody which may include an overnight stay in a cell if it's after 5pm. (this regularly happens in immigration arrests but can occur for any offence/suspected offence.

Do you think it's a good idea to say "I'm not giving you that"

Our man in Havana

Where in statute does it say you have to give DOB in the station?

donvito99

i do not understand peoples atitudes towards this matter.

Give them your date of birth.

Give them your name.

Give them your addres.

Don't make a fuss.

Simple as...

Our man in Havana

The fact that it is not enshrined in statute law, people will use it to their advantage to cause mischief.

Shield

Bond-007 wrote: »

The fact that it is not enshrined in statute law, people will use it to their advantage to cause mischief.

...which in turn gives Gardai reasonable grounds to suspect the person might not be the person they claim to be.

All Gardai are trying to do is establish to their satisfaction who the person is they are talking to. People forget they can be detained if the Garda has reasonable grounds to suspect the person is lying about their identity... and that's all that's needed to detain the person - reasonable grounds.

So, knowing this, what reasonable person wouldn't give a Garda their details on request? If the person is causing mischief, there's reasonable grounds right there IMHO.

Our man in Havana

..which in turn gives Gardai reasonable grounds to suspect the person might not be the person they claim to be.

All Gardai are trying to do is establish to their satisfaction who the person is they are talking to. People forget they can be detained if the Garda has reasonable grounds to suspect the person is lying about their identity... and that's all that's needed to detain the person - reasonable grounds.

So, knowing this, what reasonable person wouldn't give a Garda their details on request? If the person is causing mischief, there's reasonable grounds right there IMHO.

I agree totally with you.

There are too many smart arses out there that think they can get one over on the police.

brazilicious

donvito99 wrote: »

i do not understand peoples atitudes towards this matter.

Give them your date of birth.

do you think they would take it badly if one responded :

" id rather not... but how would you like my phone number instead?"

Hooch

brazilicious wrote: »

do you think they would take it badly if one responded :

" id rather not... but how would you like my phone number instead?"

That would depend on three things.....

A. Your female

B. Your good looking

C. Your female

:pac::D:pac::D:pac::D:pac:

seanybiker

15/3/83


Lads its only a DOB. Why would ya not give it to the guards if they ask. It only takes two seconds to say it.
Ah jaysus the guards are outside me house now because I gave out me DOB. tut tut

Ruen

Check out this citizens information site http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance if you're unsure about anything raised here it might clarify things for you regarding Garda powers to demand certain details.

It doesnt mention any power to demand DOB so it seems to be personal choice if you want to give that to them or not. Name and address is a different thing and they have the power to demand them details if you are suspected of having committed an offence or under certain statutory powers within road traffic act for instance.
Personally I'd just give my details, but it is important that people who arent suspected of anything can refuse and not co operate if they so wish, some posters here should respect that freedom even if it's being exercised just for the sake of it....nobody needs a reason or an excuse to exercise a right.

source

true nobody needs a reason, but if you've been stopped by a member of AGS then the member probably believes you've been involved in some form of wrongdoing, by refusing to give a basic detail like your dob, even if the Gardai don't have a statutory power to demand it, only raises the members suspicion.

The only reason that a Garda asks for DOB is because in this country there are probably thousands of people with the same name, but probably only one or 2 with the same dob.

Lets for example say that Gardai are looking for a Joe bloggs, DOB 1/1/80, and you rock up to a checkpoint and are asked for your name, you give Joe Bloggs, and refuse to give your DOB, put yourself in that garda#s shoes.
what is the member going to think?

Our man in Havana

The member can make a lawful demand for a driving licence which contains the required info.

TheNog

Bond-007 wrote: »

The member can make a lawful demand for a driving licence which contains the required info.

Foinse's post is relevant when a driving licence cannot be produced at the roadside which does happen quite a bit. Obviously if a licence was produced then there would be no need to ask for DOB.

So with no licence to look at we are back to the same question, Which Joe Bloggs are you?

Our man in Havana

I forgot about when they have no licence or no id.
I am sure there are powers of arrest to ascertain identity?

brazilicious

nice guy always wrote: »

That would depend on three things.....

A. Your female

B. Your good looking

C. Your female

:pac::D:pac::D:pac::D:pac:

in the right light i can tick at least two of those boxes.... :D


im goin out gettin me a summons tonight :P

Ruen

foinse wrote: »

true nobody needs a reason, but if you've been stopped by a member of AGS then the member probably believes you've been involved in some form of wrongdoing, by refusing to give a basic detail like your dob, even if the Gardai don't have a statutory power to demand it, only raises the members suspicion.

They can stop people without having a particular reason, like you're generally acting suspicious in area with a lot of crime, which is not an offence by the way so in those circumstances a person can give their name and address and just walk off, they dont have to answer any other questions like DOB or personal info like where are they going to or coming from, the Guard has no right to detain them in those cases so they can have their raised suspicions all they like but free citizen is going about their business.
You can be arrested if you are suspected of having committed an offence though which is a different situation, the Guard would have to know of an offence that was committed and then suspect you.

TheNog wrote: »

Foinse's post is relevant when a driving licence cannot be produced at the roadside which does happen quite a bit. Obviously if a licence was produced then there would be no need to ask for DOB.

So with no licence to look at we are back to the same question, Which Joe Bloggs are you?

When you're just stopping someone walking on the street though because they're acting suspiciously for instance you're still only entitled to ask for their name and address, anything further than that they dont have to answer and can just walk away, so if thats not sufficient information needed by a Guard then that's an issue for them.
Anyway I doubt if you suspect this "Joe Bloggs b.01/01/1970" of having committed an offence then all the guy has to do is tell you some random DOB and you let him away.

It would be great for Gardai if everyone had to carry photo I.D. cards like some mainland European countries wouldnt it

snubbleste

I had an opportunity to check this out recently when winningly selected on a street. I was asked for my name and address and then dob. Gave name and address, asked if i was required to give my dob and i was told 'yes you are' by the first garda and 'yes' by the second garda.

Has anything changed in the last year to allow this?

Shield

snubbleste wrote: »

I had an opportunity to check this out recently when winningly selected on a street. I was asked for my name and address and then dob. Gave name and address, asked if i was required to give my dob and i was told 'yes you are' by the first garda and 'yes' by the second garda.

Has anything changed in the last year to allow this?

I don't believe so, but it's really unusual for Gardai to randomly select someone on a street, so I do believe you were entitled to ask them why you won the experience.

MagicSean

This kind of attitude really annoys me. Everyone at some stage will require the help of the Gardaí or their family will. Everyone wants the Gardaí to stop crime and make the streets cleaner but they expect us to have some kind of psychic powers to identify criminals on sight. Then when they get asked their name they hop on their high horse and qoute their rights. I've never seen someone randomly selected for identifuying. There is always a reason. It could be where you are, who you are with, or even the way you are acting. You mightn'e realise but their are certain things you could be doing that raise red flags for us. It might even be that you looks similar to someone who has committed a crime near by.

In answer to the ops question. You are not required by legislation to provide your date of birth but remember that Gardaí have a power to arrest you if they have demanded your name and address and are not completely satisfied with the details you have given. If you were to refuse to give me your d.o.b. or provide me with some form of i.d. to cooberate the name you have given I would most likely arrest you in order to confirm your identity. <mod snip> You may think you are being smart but you are really just raising suspicion about who you are.

Also, lets not forget the fact that there is every possibility that someone of the same name in your area has a warrant for them. Warrants are issued quite frequently in courts and if your name is the same as that and the warrant and you won't differentiate your identity you could find yourself spending a night in a cell.

bravestar

Ruen wrote: »

They can stop people without having a particular reason, like you're generally acting suspicious in area with a lot of crime, which is not an offence by the way so in those circumstances a person can give their name and address and just walk off, they dont have to answer any other questions like DOB or personal info like where are they going to or coming from, the Guard has no right to detain them in those cases so they can have their raised suspicions all they like but free citizen is going about their business. You can be arrested if you are suspected of having committed an offence though which is a different situation, the Guard would have to know of an offence that was committed and then suspect you.



When you're just stopping someone walking on the street though because they're acting suspiciously for instance you're still only entitled to ask for their name and address, anything further than that they dont have to answer and can just walk away, so if thats not sufficient information needed by a Guard then that's an issue for them.
Anyway I doubt if you suspect this "Joe Bloggs b.01/01/1970" of having committed an offence then all the guy has to do is tell you some random DOB and you let him away.

It would be great for Gardai if everyone had to carry photo I.D. cards like some mainland European countries wouldnt it

An issue for the Guards? Section 30(1) of The Offences Against the State Act makes it an issue for you very easily.

Yes it would be great if everyone had to carry photo I.D.

Shield

I think we can safely close this one off now. The OP's question was answered several times, and a number of instances have been provided to help clarify.

Thread closed.