Is there any meaning to us???

An Fear Aniar

There is a God though. It's the only thing in life I can claim to be certain about.

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Spiritoftheseventies

question. i know they say it started with the big bang. two particles colliding. but were did the particles come from. surely to begin with there was nothing at all.

sells

humans being the creators of themselves.....its a back to the future paradox....humans find out that . jebus, god doesnt exist, the big bang diddent creat us and we found a message from jimmy patterson from the future saying, u have to make youreselves and then send that product back in time to become humans. something like that.....but mainly i think that all the comments posted on boards is good enough reason that we mean something. We make people laugh, humans.

Dido1

bayviewclose wrote: »

question. i know they say it started with the big bang. two particles colliding. but were did the particles come from. surely to begin with there was nothing at all.

Good question

Latchy

Trying to think of that shakesperean quote , someting like '' I think, therefore I am '' .

We are concious beings in a state of existince but we dont understand why .Like if die without knowing why we existed in the first place than that will be so frustrating and it doesn't make sense

philologos

^^ T'is René Descartes. French philosopher who wrote it in his Meditations. He doubted everything apart from God, and the existence of himself because he has cognitive faculties. Very interesting stuff

AdamusAdonis

There is no reason.

Splendour

dan719 wrote: »

Funny how you expect atheists to use a certain standard of work, when your entire world view is based on a two thousand year old book containing as much reality as Harry Potter.:rolleyes:

Flavius Josephus was a secular historian who wrote about Jesus...



Josephus - Biblical Accounts Outside the Bible
Josephus mentions New Testament events and people in some of his works. For many skeptics, this is viewed as significant evidence against the myth and legend theories that plague early Christianity. Here are some excerpts:

Josephus mentions Jesus in Antiquities, Book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 (this paragraph is so phenomenal, that scholars now debate the authenticity of some of the more “favorable” portions of this text):

“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

He also writes about John the Baptist, Jesus's brother James and Herod among others.

Splendour

thelordofcheese wrote: »

But, if we pretend that Jakkas is right about god and all that, then while Canis Lupis may be going to hell, so are all the best bands.

Basically, all the good bands and fun people go to hell, everyone else goes to heaven. I know which party I'd rather be at.

There'll be lots of good bands in Heaven and lots of fun people too. I gather you know some Christians who aren't fun loving so you assume all are the same. Christians are firstly human. Just like with all of mankind, some are fun loving and some aren't. Just because one becomes a Christian doesn't mean they lose their personality!

I know which party I'd rather be at and that's the one with the guy who turns water into wine...

sells

i think their is meaning to us, not a religious meaning. some other meaning a more important meaning, one that applies to humans now, in our lives and not for a god, aliens or any other thing. the meaning to it all is to just get on with it.

CuLT

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Let's just say that if you had as much experience of the guy as I do you wouldn't be saying that

I'm not taking his dismissal of dawkins personally, his calling him feeble because of his writing style and calling me prissy are both symptoms of the same recurring problem, an overwhelming desire to find any excuse to avoid thinking about what anyone who disagrees with him has to say. It does get very frustrating the 5000th time he misses the point

I have reasonable experience of Jakkass' posts, he's been around a while; moderated adverts.ie while I was moderating there too! I do recall finding some of his posts maddening, but only because I fall more on your side of the fence ideologically. I've seen plenty of maddening atheist posts too, my point is that he's not being abusive, he's just disagreeing with you.

Realistically I think both atheism and theism both start from currently unprovable assumptions, both of which are diametrically opposite to one another. Attempting to argue doesn't work because there are different fundamental rule books involved for both; might as well have a chess player and a checkers player attempting to play each other on the same board.

Each one figures they're playing the game correctly, and that the other is some ignorant halfwit, but neither will ever complete the game and the most they will ever concede is a stalemate.

stiff kitten

MY THEORY!

we are here because of the father: evolution of body
the son: evolution of body
the holy spirit: the breath and energy life source of god.


AMEN

Splendour

bayviewclose wrote: »

question. i know they say it started with the big bang. two particles colliding. but were did the particles come from. surely to begin with there was nothing at all.

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

tech77

OP everything is meaningless.
Everything including this thread is pointless.
Gotta love the deliciously ironic futility of posters ardently arguing the merits of God or evolution.
Then again the indulgence of such a delicious irony is itself of course merely an illusion.

In fact this post is a paradox.
Ah fcuk it, this nihilism gig isn't as easy as it sounds.

thelordofcheese

Splendour wrote: »

There'll be lots of good bands in Heaven

Somehow i doubt that very much.

common_parlance

Jakkass wrote: »

Interesting. Do you think believing that God created the world excludes evolution as a means of the creation of life?

Well, if it doesn't and it's possible that the beardy god of Christianity and evolution are compatible, I'm confused about one thing:

If we evolved into humans, does that mean that when God created us he started us off as chimps and let evolution finish the job? And if God created us in his image, does that mean God is a chimp, too? I did always feel kind of curious about how they got those chimps to drink the tea, but now I realise I must have been confusing curiosity with some kind of divine awe.

If I'm right, there's a ****load of stained glass windows and paintings that need to be redone.

philologos

common_parlance wrote: »

Well, if it doesn't and it's possible that the beardy god of Christianity and evolution are compatible, I'm confused about one thing:

There is nothing in the Biblical text to suggest that God is human. God is considered to be a non-corporeal (doesn't have a body) being in Judaism, Christianity and I think Islam also.

common_parlance wrote: »

If we evolved into humans, does that mean that when God created us he started us off as chimps and let evolution finish the job? And if God created us in his image, does that mean God is a chimp, too? I did always feel kind of curious about how they got those chimps to drink the tea, but now I realise I must have been confusing curiosity with some kind of divine awe.

There are different views on this in theism. Many theists including the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams hold the view that God created the processes of evolution and started it out. Others hold that God was involved in the evolution process itself, bringing life to it's current state. Theistic evolutionists differ in how God was involved in evolution. Some believe He merely set it up. Others believe that God was involved in it. Theres still much I have to think about this issue however, I'm not entirely solidified.

common_parlance wrote: »

If I'm right, there's a ****load of stained glass windows and paintings that need to be redone.

Depictions can only depict God's nature. They don't intend to represent God Himself. For example Michaelangelos Adam does not mean that Christians believe that God is bearded. However it is the only real way that one can represent God's relationship to mankind artistically in a way that is somewhat intelligible to humans.

However, you probably know that there are many Christians that oppose any depiction of God, or any other figure upon stained glass or on paintings. It's a huge area of debate. It's also a matter of debate within Islam, in which some denominations of Islam think it is unacceptable to ever paint a picture of the Prophet Muhammad, others think it is absolutely fine

docdolittle

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Somehow i doubt that very much.

But there will be Faith +1 :P

Tchaikovsky

docdolittle wrote: »

But there will be Faith +1 :P

They're fictional.

Just like heaven.

c-note

United States??

docdolittle

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

They're fictional.

Just like heaven.

The gorillaz are a cartoony band, would you call them fictional? :P A song is a song :P

Splendour

docdolittle wrote: »

But there will be Faith +1 :P

Better than the headlining band appearing in hell - Faith No More

docdolittle

Splendour wrote: »

Better than the headlining band appearing in hell - Faith No More

Why would they give you heaven in hell? :P

In All Fairness

Sam Vimes wrote: »

And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. (1 Cor 15:14).

Hi Sam.I think that depends on what a person takes from the life of Christ.

Sam Vimes

In All Fairness wrote: »

Hi Sam.I think that depends on what a person takes from the life of Christ.

Nope, that's a quote from the bible, (1 Cor 15:14) means the book of Corinthians chapter 15 verse 14. Take it or leave it

you can still follow the moral teachings of Jesus of course, you just wouldn't think he was god and you could get yourself one of these t-shirts
http://preachinghelp.org/img/atheists.jpg

thelordofcheese

docdolittle wrote: »

But there will be Faith +1 :P

Will there be punch...and pie?

In All Fairness

togster wrote: »

Yes i have. Then again i've seen "ordinary" people get excited and depressed too. Granted the degrees are different. Most people are mentally ill to some degree.



I believe you. Some things can't be faked, and when it's true, people believe in you.

I see your point on Jesus.But i don't believe he was menatlly ill in the conventional conotations of the term itself. Your point about controlling your mind is intersting. That's what most spiritual practices are about. I just think Jesus was a guy who lived with his heart as you put it. Totally free of mental inprisonment (any thought/emotion/mind made insecurities/revenge/jealousy/emotional or psychological movement) I think he saw that as god. He was without sin so to speak.

His message has been twisted my numerous groups, religious and athiests and hundreds in between. I know i will tell a story today to someone and tomorrow i will hear a different version of the same one! People used what he said and twisted it and used for their own gain. And that is done all over the world in everyday. The idea of a guy in the clouds with a yes/no button is bull**** but for people who want to believe it's a saviour of sorts when life is right now and only ever now.

Absolutely. What made me suspect he may have been mentally ill was the inability and uncertainty of the police to know exactly what to do as they found him attractive and he hadn't broken any laws but he was seriously disturbing the peace and the very ideas of social conditioning.He just couldn't see them as a threat to anything or any reason why they would want to threaten him.He loved them and that was it and sure you're just doing your jobs.

Also you'd need to check with jakkass but I'm fairly certain that Jesus was sweating blood from his face in the Garden of Getsemane. Whether this argues mental or physical illness or both I don't know but he certainly wasn't well. Sry about the lateness of reply.Computer crashed.
Cheers

In All Fairness

Splendour wrote: »

There'll be lots of good bands in Heaven and lots of fun people too. I gather you know some Christians who aren't fun loving so you assume all are the same. Christians are firstly human. Just like with all of mankind, some are fun loving and some aren't. Just because one becomes a Christian doesn't mean they lose their personality!

I know which party I'd rather be at and that's the one with the guy who turns water into wine...

And The Stone Roses will be playing cos it's their idea of Hell.;)

In All Fairness

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Nope, that's a quote from the bible, (1 Cor 15:14) means the book of Corinthians chapter 15 verse 14. Take it or leave it

you can still follow the moral teachings of Jesus of course, you just wouldn't think he was god and you could get yourself one of these t-shirts
http://preachinghelp.org/img/atheists.jpg

Cheers. All i was saying is that I am not obliged to associate myself with any Christian text or body to believe that the man Jesus Christ lived in a way that was the Emdodiment of my concept of God and therefore during his life God was made flesh and dwelt amongst us. I also believe this is the reason Jesus fell three times on his way to the cross so God could show human fallibility but that Simon of Cyrene would become a christian was never in doubt.