if you convert an attic when can you call it a bedroom?

ToyotaF1

Here's one for you...

You have a three bedroom house. You convert the attic space to a bedroom. What do you need achieve to offically call it a 4 bedroom house?

sinnerboy

It needs to fully comply with building regulations . Hire an architect . But don't steal his drawings / CAD files

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60953672&postcount=9

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

It needs to fully comply with building regulations

Thats about it. It will have to meet certain standards and be compliant with a lot of regulations so get yourself an architect or architectural technician

starbelgrade

I know a few auctioneers that could offically sell it as a 10 bedroom penthouse! Joking aside though, why the need for the "official" stamp?

archtech

starbelgrade wrote: »

I know a few auctioneers that could offically sell it as a 10 bedroom penthouse! Joking aside though, why the need for the "official" stamp?

Because if it doesn't comply with the building regulations it is not termed as a habitable room.

ToyotaF1

thanks for that info....here's some more information:

The new attic room meets all the necessary regs. However the layout the house (now that it's three storey and with a floor level above 4.5m) doesn't meet one aspect of Fire regs where the corridor from the top floor goes down to ground level and through a living room to get to the final escape.

Is it 'stampable'?

mickdw

Did you apply for planning for the conversion

sinnerboy

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

thanks for that info....here's some more information:

The new attic room meets all the necessary regs. However the layout the house (now that it's three storey and with a floor level above 4.5m) doesn't meet one aspect of Fire regs where the corridor from the top floor goes down to ground level and through a living room to get to the final escape.

Is it 'stampable'?

You have answered your own query . So far you have looked to dodge regs and justify stealing drawings . Not bad going for a 7 count poster

.

ToyotaF1

sinnerboy wrote: »

You have answered your own query . So far you have looked to dodge regs and justify stealing drawings . Not bad going for a 7 count poster

.

Firstly, I don't understand your comment re: stealing drawings. Please explain.

Secondly, its not about dodging regs, its about complying with as many regs as practically possible, and if you comply with all save one, then can you sign off and qualify the opinion on compliance on that one item which doesn't comply with that aspect of the regs?!



****edit, just clicked your link....that post related to that thread...you have totally taken it out of context. For the record, it is all my own work.

ToyotaF1

mickdw wrote: »

Did you apply for planning for the conversion

Yes, and granted with no conditions.

Quazzie

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

Yes, and granted with no conditions.

Compliance with Fire regulations is a condition

ToyotaF1

There are no conditions appended to the Grant of Planning permission.

Aren't planning regulations and building regulations separate? And should you provide an opinion on compliance with Planning (not building) it is a matter whether the development is in compliance with those plans lodged?

sinnerboy

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

****edit, just clicked your link....that post related to that thread...you have totally taken it out of context. For the record, it is all my own work.

TF1 - glad you cleared that up

Is the stairway protected in your now 3 storey layout ? If not do not describe the converted attic as a bedroom on any cert . Its a converted attic , implying for storage only , not habitable.

For it to be a bedroom i.e. habitable - safe means of escape from it through the building must be provided all the way to the final exit.

SB Rant warning

We get what we want in Ireland . What I describe here is official Irelands facilitating us by allowing us to create un safe bedrooms - usually for our kids

I hope the day never comes - but i fear it might - that an unusual "spike" in the number of house fire deaths will call attention to the issue . I can hear Fat Kenny and Joe Puffy now " how could this HAPPEN . Call 1850 ********* now and fill up the airways with your witless lamentations "

SB rant over .

muffler

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

thanks for that info....here's some more information:

The new attic room meets all the necessary regs. However the layout the house (now that it's three storey and with a floor level above 4.5m) doesn't meet one aspect of Fire regs where the corridor from the top floor goes down to ground level and through a living room to get to the final escape.

Is it 'stampable'?

Certainly not. Id never sign off on any project where the conversion does not comply with all aspects of Part B

ToyotaF1

Thanks Muffler.

Are you aware of there being a way of providing an Opinion of Compliance on Regs while indicating an exception on that compliance?

muffler

Yes. A qualified cert could be issued which would make specific reference to the non compliance with Part B, Bldg. Regs but really and truly it wouldnt be worth the effort.

sinnerboy

Solicitors query them . Ask questions . Sometimes years later . Questions that are not easy to answer .

archtech

If someone was to issue an opinion of compliance for the situation described, it would most properly be argued as been considered professional negligence and would properly leave one open to prosecution should a death occur, in my opinion. We certainly won't issue an opinion of compliance where part b to the described extent was in not compliance.

muffler

archtech wrote: »

If someone was to issue an opinion of compliance for the situation described, it would most properly be argued as been considered professional negligence and would properly leave one open to prosecution should a death occur, in my opinion. We certainly won't issue an opinion of compliance where part b to the described extent was in not compliance.

Are you referring to my post above?

Poor Uncle Tom

muffler wrote: »

Yes. A qualified cert could be issued which would make specific reference to the non compliance with Part B, Bldg. Regs but really and truly it wouldnt be worth the effort.

+1.

The idea of a Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations is to have an indemnified professional certify that a building is compliant with the Building Regulations. If it is not compliant then a Certificate of Compliance can not be issued.

If a combined Certificate of Compliance with Planning Permission and Building Regulations and a Declaration is being prepared, then this can be qualified to include a statement on non compliance with Part B of the Building Regulations, imo.

archtech

muffler wrote: »

Are you referring to my post above?

no not your post but the op query.

Penn

Simply put, if it doesn't comply with all necessary building regulations, you cannot class it as a bedroom. I shudder to think that anyone would sign off on its compliance.

Why not contact your architect and see if there is some way to get it to comply, its hard to tell how this could be done without having seen your drawings, so maybe you've already tried this

muffler

archtech wrote: »

no not your post but the op query.

I was going to state the same as Poor Uncle Tom. I have done this a few times in the past (once only I think concerning non compliance with Part whereby I qualified the cert with specific reference to which part of the Building Regs that were not being/been complied with such as the omission of a ramp at the front door, the absence of roof ventilation, sub standard insulation, no commencement notice submitted, etc etc. I also used either the word "Qualified" or "Interim" in the cert header depending on the level or type of non compliance.

I try to keep the reference to the non compliance aspect as concise as possible in the cert. but I always follow it up with a detailed report/explanation outlining the point of or reason for the non compliance and what needs to be done to rectify the problem. This report will be attached to the cert and specific mention of it will be included in the covering letter that is being sent to the clients solicitor. After that they can do as they please with it as my ass is well and truly covered at that stage.

ToyotaF1

muffler wrote: »

...but I always follow it up with a detailed report/explanation outlining the point of or reason for the non compliance and what needs to be done to rectify the problem. This report will be attached to the cert and specific mention of it will be included in the covering letter that is being sent to the clients solicitor.

This I suppose is what I was thinking in my mind as to 'help out' the situation where because the escape goes through a living, you can advise of modifications to the escape that two doors at the end of an enclosed stairs provide two choices of escape:

1. through the front living room
2. through the kitchen or rear reception

as described in Part B See pg 54 Diagram 9(b) and paragraph 1.5.4

Poor Uncle Tom

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

This I suppose is what I was thinking in my mind as to 'help out' the situation where because the escape goes through a living, you can advise of modifications to the escape that two doors at the end of an enclosed stairs provide two choices of escape:

1. through the front living room
2. through the kitchen or rear reception

as described in Part B See pg 54 Diagram 9(b) and paragraph 1.5.4

No.

You state the stairs lands within a Living Room. You have just pointed out above there are two routes of escape from the living room, non of which are directly to the exterior. This implies that the Living Room into which the stairs opens is already an Inner Room and to compound matters it is a Living Room, possible fireplace Y/N?

It is my opinion that your converted attic can not be classed as habitable accommodation without serious modifications to your means of escape.

mickdw

muffler wrote: »

no commencement notice submitted, etc etc.

What happens in the case of commencement notice not being sent in?

Poor Uncle Tom

It is regulations to send in a commencement notice, you are in violation of the regulations if you don't and liable to possible prosecution or fine or both.

It's just that I don't know of any instances where it has been acted on.

muffler

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It is regulations to send in a commencement notice, you are in violation of the regulations if you don't and liable to possible prosecution or fine or both.

It's just that I don't know of any instances where it has been acted on.

That would be my experience also.

But with some of the BC guys with a bit more time on their hands now you could see the likes of this being followed up on here and there just to justify their existence if nothing else

sydthebeat

this thread is bordering very very close to breaking charter rules....

the charter states "Any thread/post that is looking for ways to get around the planning process, or building regulations, or any other statutory legislation, or advising somebody to ignore these legislations and regulations, will be deleted and and the poster will be banned indefinitely."

to the OP....

youve described a situation that does not comply with building regulations.

you really only have one option... make the build comply...

relying on someone to qualify a cert is not good enough.. and to be honest, shouldn't be considered an acceptable practise in this situation....

fire regulation compliance is not something that should be allowed to be loose and lapse

ToyotaF1

ok Sydthebeat,

I think I have the necessary 'guidance' on the problem. I do thank all for their input - it is most appreciated. I do want my issue to be completed ethically and correctly anyway which is why I began the thread.

Syd, I think we have closed on this issue and I won't be offended should you locked it.

Thanks all.

TF1.

Poor Uncle Tom

Bye, ToyotaF1,

sydthebeat

ToyotaF1 wrote: »

ok Sydthebeat,

I think I have the necessary 'guidance' on the problem. I do thank all for their input - it is most appreciated. I do want my issue to be completed ethically and correctly anyway which is why I began the thread.

Syd, I think we have closed on this issue and I won't be offended should you locked it.

Thanks all.

TF1.

cant be any fairer that that.. ta TF1