The rugby forum has gone to pot...

lol123456

....with trolls and others who insist on having an argument throughout a thread because they can't accept the opinions of other people.

Have not made many posts myself but that's what I think.

Stev_o

This man speaks the truth.

thomond2006

Stev_o wrote: »

This man speaks the truth.

+ 1,000,000

DeVore

Suggestions?

DeV.

Stev_o

DeVore wrote: »

Suggestions?

DeV.

Honestly i have no idea, since the Lions series there has been alot of traffic in the forum and it's ended up looking like a soccer forum at times and a creche at worst. Alot of posters now are more interested in making digs at each other then discussing matters at hand. Now whether you's get one of the mods to address this growing influx of pettiness in the forum by addressing everyone and slapping a few wrist and tell them to cop on or possibly get a mod from boards to have a look at the forum for the next week and give you his/her thoughts on whats going on.

thomond2006

DeVore,

I suggested to Crash (rugby forum mod) to introduce a "requested entry" system, similar to what is used to access the soccer forum. He hasn't got back to me yet.

Stevo is right in saying that the problem has got worse since the Lions Tour. There are a lot of SA and Lions fans who are starting silly arguments.

Also, the issue of Ronan O' Gara (ROG) is a serious problem where people with vested interests in belitting him are beginning threads anytime ROG has a poor/average performance.

The forum is becoming more and more popular, therefore I think we need more moderators.

Thanks

Thomond

Xavi6

Stev_o wrote: »

it's ended up looking like a soccer forum at times

Care to elaborate or is that just the token Feedback cheap shot at a forum completely unconnected to the topic at hand?

Stev_o

Some threads that show the problem that has developed.

1.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055608692

2.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055608255

3.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605399&page=2

4. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055606083&page=3

There's more if you look around.

Xavi6 the soccer forum before you's put restrictions for entering it.

thomond2006

Stev_o wrote: »

Some threads that show the problem that has developed.

1.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055608692

2.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055608255

3.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055605399&page=2

4. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055606083&page=3

There's more if you look around.

Apt examples.

It looks like I'm part of the problem sometimes. Sorry!!

Amabokke

DeVore wrote: »

Suggestions?

DeV.

Yes, some posters don't seem to want to discuss intellectual rugby but just to spat crap on the forum.

If posters can also use some backup when they disagree or tell other posters they are wrong it might improve too.

If the mods can also get in early and stop posters that posts rubbish instead of good rugby talk that will help.

This week 3/4 Ronan O'Gara forums have started up.

There will be more traffic because of the Lions tour.

Orizio

I used to post there regurly enough but have stopped since this year's Heineken Cup.

I agree with Stev_O that it is increasingly resembling the soccer forum. Trolls and pettiness galore. Not a 100% sure how you can resolve these problems though. Stricter rules, quicker bannings and permission to post in the forum would be a start.

Handsome Bob

More mods perhaps?

Eoin

thomond2006 wrote: »

Also, the issue of Ronan O' Gara (ROG) is a serious problem where people with vested interests in belitting him are beginning threads anytime ROG has a poor/average performance.

What do you mean "vested interests"? That's not the same thing as, say, Leinster fans having a dig at him if that's what you mean.

I can't think of any suggestions, other than just ban discussions of certain players. Unfortunately, the blinkered and stubborn responses about ROG (for example) are from both sides.

Stev_o

One thing that has been lost that has be restored immediately is the right to a opinion. Alot of posters have made up their mind what is exceptable to them and will crucify other posters if their opinions differs from theirs.

Size=everything

I think the problem is some posters take it very personally when one of their players gets criticised and turn into a provincial pissing contest. Threads about players shouldn't mention players from other teams unless relevant to the discussion i.e possible replacements. Period.

_blank_

Some observations.

I'd like to state from the outset the following.

I'm an impartial moderator on the forum.

I don't particularly follow the sport, and stepped in to mod the place when Crash was AFK.

@thomond2006 : Your PM was received, I have since forwarded it on to the other MOds. Unfortunately, Ruggie is away on holidays at the moment, so the idea can not be discussed at the present time. Ruggie is the Sport Cat Mod, so any changes will have to be OKd by him.

In general to all Rugby users, you all, as a group, seem very hesitant to use the Report Post feature. You complain on thread too much, and don't alert the mods to the problems. If you would do that, we could mod the place much more easily, and nip the problems in the bud, before they get out of hand or nasty.

I've locked threads today where people posted "IBTL" and didn't bother to report the posts that were bothering them.

So please.

Help us to help you.

Ruggie and Crash are not omnipresent, neither am I, and I generally only respond to reported posts.

Size=everything

eoin wrote: »

What do you mean "vested interests"? That's not the same thing as, say, Leinster fans having a dig at him if that's what you mean.

I can't think of any suggestions, other than just ban discussions of certain players. Unfortunately, the blinkered and stubborn responses about ROG (for example) are from both sides.

The problem is some posters taking it as vested interests when a poster criticises a player from their province just because they are a supporter of a different province.

Amabokke

Stev_o wrote: »

One thing that has been lost that has be restored immediately is the right to a opinion. Alot of posters have made up their mind what is exceptable to them and will crucify other posters if their opinions differs from theirs.

Give us an example Steve_O please.

Rt. Hon.

I have been reading the Rugby forum for about 18 months, even if I only signed up to this site this week. I will probably never post in Rugby, but would like to keep reading it, as would other people I know, who would never sign up here.

If you implement a system of applying for access, could you keep this to posting rights, and leave read-only access open to everyone?

Thanks

Off-topic, but is it normal to be logged out when I press Submit Reply?

_blank_

One thing I've noticed, and yes, I'm sorry Xavi, but I'm going to draw a parallel to the Soccer Forum here. It's that people take criticism of players on their team FAR too personally.

It's childish, in the extreme, and leads to these pissing contests. Someone says Leinster Player X had a bad game, and suddenly rabid Leinster fans are all over him saying "You must be from Munster saying that" or "Yeah well Munster Player Y in the same position is worse".

FFS lads, learn to take a bit of criticism. Not everyone is out to get you. Or your team.

I'm an avid Soccer fan, and understand the passion and tribal nature of sport. But the Rugby Forum is beginning to resemble the Soccer Forum of four years ago. It's not as bad though. Yet.

I'd recommend a system like the Soccer system, before the Rugby Forum gets closed down.

Amabokke

Des wrote: »

Some observations.

I'd like to state from the outset the following.

I'm an impartial moderator on the forum.

I don't particularly follow the sport, and stepped in to mod the place when Crash was AFK.

@thomond2006 : Your PM was received, I have since forwarded it on to the other MOds. Unfortunately, Ruggie is away on holidays at the moment, so the idea can not be discussed at the present time. Ruggie is the Sport Cat Mod, so any changes will have to be OKd by him.

In general to all Rugby users, you all, as a group, seem very hesitant to use the Report Post feature. You complain on thread too much, and don't alert the mods to the problems. If you would do that, we could mod the place much more easily, and nip the problems in the bud, before they get out of hand or nasty.

I've locked threads today where people posted "IBTL" and didn't bother to report the posts that were bothering them.

So please.

Help us to help you.

Ruggie and Crash are not omnipresent, neither am I, and I generally only respond to reported posts.

That seems to be part of the problem, more so than other issues. Maybe 2/3 instead of 1 full time moderators.

Stev_o

Sounds like a good idea Des. That and at least a extra moderator is probably needed who isn't already overloaded like yourself Ruggie or Crash.

_blank_

Amabokke wrote: »

Give us an example Steve_O please.

Erm, the post you just put in the thread about the player with psychiatric issues.

"Maybe because they are French".

How does that help anyone?

Eoin

Size=everything wrote: »

The problem is some posters taking it as vested interests when a poster criticises a player from their province just because they are a supporter of a different province.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say. Someone with a "vested interest" would be Jonny Sexton logging on and slating O'Gara.

I don't know if the access system will make much difference. I don't think it's all, or even mostly, new users that are stirring the shìt or just taking it too personally. Though I've no experience of the soccer forum, so maybe it worked there.

Des wrote:

In general to all Rugby users, you all, as a group, seem very hesitant to use the Report Post feature. You complain on thread too much, and don't alert the mods to the problems. If you would do that, we could mod the place much more easily, and nip the problems in the bud, before they get out of hand or nasty.

Agree 100%

_blank_

Amabokke wrote: »

That seems to be part of the problem, more so than other issues. Maybe 2/3 instead of 1 full time moderators.

The fact that I don't follow the sport doesn't mean I can't moderate the forum.

I'm not a Vegetarian either, and I mod that forum just fine

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea Des. That and at least a extra moderator is probably needed who isn't already overloaded like yourself Ruggie or Crash.

I would like to see [jackass] become a mod in fairness to him hes a great poster and never rises to the bait even when someone tries to drag him in.

Eoin

Size=everything wrote: »

I would like to see [jackass] become a mod in fairness to him hes a great poster and never rises to the bait even when someone tries to drag him in.

I'm sure he'd be good, but probably best to let the powers-that-be decide the best way to deal with the problem first, before nominating people.

And as Des said, if people reported the posts instead of responding in kind, that alone would probably help things.

Amabokke

Des wrote: »

Erm, the post you just put in the thread about the player with psychiatric issues.

"Maybe because they are French".

How does that help anyone?

Now see, you're making an assumption and twisting my words. Read the post again and you'll see I refer to the French league that there are lot of fights in it more so than other countries and I can back it up. I mentioned I saw on a site that he was in a fight with this teammates and I was asked by Oracle "how would the other players let the assault thing happen" where I pointed to the French fighting.

Amabokke

Des wrote: »

The fact that I don't follow the sport doesn't mean I can't moderate the forum.

I'm not a Vegetarian either, and I mod that forum just fine

No disrespect to you Des but you already twisted my words here when you thought my explanation is not helping anyone.

therecklessone

Lads, the soccer forum access request mechanism isn't designed to screen new users as such, the original intention was to make it harder for banned users to rereg and cause more problems.

Yes we look at a prospective new members posting history, bans/infractions earned etc, but it is hard to gauge whether somebody might be troublesome from their posts across boards (anything from PI to photography to satellite etc etc) and it is not fool proof.

The users of the forum have to take responsibility for helping to ensure it runs smoothly, that means reporting offending posts instead of responding to them. No amount of moderators will result in 24/7 cover unless you guys want to start paying the people who volunteer so that they will work a roster, and I don't see that happening any time soon :P

I'll also suggest you look at the SF use of the infraction system here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56561140&postcount=4

Cliff notes version:

Red card = 2 yellows.
6 yellows picked up in one year = 6 month ban.

Size=everything

Amabokke wrote: »

Now see, you're making an assumption and twisting my words. Read the post again and you'll see I refer to the French league that there are lot of fights in it more so than other countries and I can back it up. I mentioned I saw on a site that he was in a fight with this teammates and I was asked by Oracle "how would the other players let the assault thing happen" where I pointed to the French fighting.

Did you explain that though? Or did you just say 'because they are french'

_blank_

Amabokke wrote: »

Now see, you're making an assumption and twisting my words. Read the post again and you'll see I refer to the French league that there are lot of fights in it more so than other countries and I can back it up. I mentioned I saw on a site that he was in a fight with this teammates and I was asked by Oracle "how would the other players let the assault thing happen" where I pointed to the French fighting.

Amabokke wrote: »

No disrespect to you Des but you already twisted my words here when you thought my explanation is not helping anyone.

Fair enough. I misinterpreted you.

Apologies.

Amabokke

Size=everything wrote: »

Did you explain that though? Or did you just say 'because they are french'

I don't think I have to explain a whole paragraph about French rugby when I refer to their fighting. True rugby supporters know what they are like in the leagues, few clips on youtube available. If a poster is unsure of what it means they should just ask me.

mikedragon32

I appreciate, that some mods are away, but Des relying on reported posts isn't enough. If you knew that you were going to be modding alone, during what is one of the biggest events in the Rugby calender, why not seek assistance from a mod who is already there and contributing. At least that way there is someone actually reading the threads and (hopefully) being proactive in dealing with troublesome posts when they happen.

I've no problem with how Des moderates, and certainly have no issues with the actions he's taken, but under the current circumstances, the forum does need someone to give it a little more tlc.

Eoin

Ruggie only went on holidays the other day I think, he's been around up until then.

_blank_

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I appreciate, that some mods are away, but Des relying on reported posts isn't enough. If you knew that you were going to be modding alone, during what is one of the biggest events in the Rugby calender, why not seek assistance from a mod who is already there and contributing.

I actually thought Crash was back tbh.

But that's neither here nor there.

The blame for people acting like children is not with the moderation or lack thereof, it's with the childish acting people who are posting on the forum.

mikedragon32 wrote: »

At least that way there is someone actually reading the threads and (hopefully) being proactive in dealing with troublesome posts when they happen.

Again, if people reported posts instead of posting "IBTL" in them, then this wouldn't even need addressing. See the locked thread on the first page of the Rugby forum for just one example

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055606892

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I've no problem with how Des moderates, and certainly have no issues with the actions he's taken, but under the current circumstances, the forum does need someone to give it a little more tlc.

I'd agree with you, I do think that forums need at least one active mod who has an interest in the topic, especially volatile forums like Rugby seems to have become.

I will re-state though, that the main problems as outlined in this Feedback thread, by the complainants, would go a long way to being solved if people would actively use the Report Post feature, instead of being childish.

_blank_

eoin wrote: »

Ruggie only went on holidays the other day I think, he's been around up until then.

That's true actually. Ruggie has been around lately, just not this week.

Size=everything

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I appreciate, that some mods are away, but Des relying on reported posts isn't enough. If you knew that you were going to be modding alone, during what is one of the biggest events in the Rugby calender, why not seek assistance from a mod who is already there and contributing. At least that way there is someone actually reading the threads and (hopefully) being proactive in dealing with troublesome posts when they happen.

I've no problem with how Des moderates, and certainly have no issues with the actions he's taken, but under the current circumstances, the forum does need someone to give it a little more tlc.

I don't think thats the problem. The forum never got overrun and besides 99% of the time posters don't go into bannable terroritory i.e are very subtle in their approach to bait. Not Des' fault at all IMO.

Even in the threads listed no opinion in there is bannable so how is that des fault? Its the posters fault for taking issue with perfectly legit opinions that is the problem!

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

I don't think thats the problem. The forum never got overrun and besides 99% of the time posters don't go into bannable terroritory i.e are very subtle in their approach to bait. Not Des' fault at all IMO.

Even in the threads listed no opinion in there is bannable so how is that des fault? Its the posters fault for taking issue with perfectly legit opinions that is the problem!

Matchdays the forum is always at full capacity.

_blank_

Stev_o wrote: »

Matchdays the forum is always at full capacity.

I may be mistaken, but I think there were something like 4 reported posts from the weekend.

Now that says two things to me.

Either

1. The forum is not as bad as is being made out

or

2. The people who are complaining are content to sit on their arses and not report these post/posters who are causing the malcontent.

It's one or the other. How are the mods supposed to know there is a problem, if nobody points it out.

The majority of people who post in the forum will know I'm not a regular contributer, and the only posts I make in the forum are moderation related.

Stev_o

Des wrote: »

I may be mistaken, but I think there were something like 4 reported posts from the weekend.

Now that says two things to me.

Either

1. The forum is not as bad as is being made out

or

2. The people who are complaining are content to sit on their arses and not report these post/posters who are causing the malcontent.

It's one or the other. How are the mods supposed to know there is a problem, if nobody points it out.

The majority of people who post in the forum will know I'm not a regular contributer, and the only posts I make in the forum are moderation related.

Probably more then 4 tbh.

This was Ruggie's action http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055603195&page=34 the last 3 pages then just go a bit crazy.

Then you had the various ROG threads that spread up as a result of the match a day after.

Honestly id say it's number 2. Generally people on the forum prefer to have a typing battle with each other rather then reporting a post which offends them or whatever.

Again really it lies in the fact that you really need to have a interest in rugby to know when to draw the line on debating a player when it starts to cross over into provincial bickering and the like.

SpAcEd OuT

My problem is with one poster in particular, thehighground who turns every discussion into childish, provincial ****e. He does it very subtly so its hard to spot and even harder to ban for but go to nearly every locked thread and you will see it is his or premierstones input that spirals the discussion out of control. They are worse than rugbyfanatic, inquitus and dc69 were but more intelligent at disguising it IMO

Wreck

therecklessone wrote: »

Lads, the soccer forum access request mechanism isn't designed to screen new users as such, the original intention was to make it harder for banned users to rereg and cause more problems.

Yes we look at a prospective new members posting history, bans/infractions earned etc, but it is hard to gauge whether somebody might be troublesome from their posts across boards (anything from PI to photography to satellite etc etc) and it is not fool proof.

The users of the forum have to take responsibility for helping to ensure it runs smoothly, that means reporting offending posts instead of responding to them. No amount of moderators will result in 24/7 cover unless you guys want to start paying the people who volunteer so that they will work a roster, and I don't see that happening any time soon :P

I'll also suggest you look at the SF use of the infraction system here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56561140&postcount=4

Cliff notes version:

Red card = 2 yellows.
6 yellows picked up in one year = 6 month ban.

One of the major benefits of the soccer forum screening process is it prevents people from signing up to troll when important or controversial events occur. The 50 posts rule stops people from creating accounts just to slag off O'Gara or whatever. And if you know that even if you can get away with a re-reg, you have to have another 50 posts to get let back in, you are going to value the privilege of posting that little bit more.

The constant inter-provincial bickering really puts people off posting in the forum imo. To continue the contrast with soccer, I love rugby, played the game at decent levels for 15 years, attend live games and watch loads of it on TV, but I have far more posts in the soccer forum than the rugby forum.

therecklessone

Wreck wrote: »

One of the major benefits of the soccer forum screening process is it prevents people from signing up to troll when important or controversial events occur. The 50 posts rule stops people from creating accounts just to slag off O'Gara or whatever. And if you know that even if you can get away with a re-reg, you have to have another 50 posts to get let back in, you are going to value the privilege of posting that little bit more.

I know all of that.

However, is there any evidence to suggest that people are signing up simply to troll the rugby forum? Or are banned users re-regging and causing more trouble?

I'd hate for people to think a screening process will solve all your problems.

On the SF, the aftermath of the forum closure saw a sponsorship system, existing users had to sponsor a new member, with their own access at risk if the new member acted up once they were granted access. The problem with that was that it meant people new to to boards struggled to attract sponsors as they were not known. There is a fine line between trying to prevent muppetry and closing the forum to all newcomers.

The current system prevents immediate re-regs for banned users, but that only works if you actually ban troublemakers in the first place.

You guys need to help the rugby mods by reporting the offending posts rather than reacting to them. The latter course of action does nothing to solve the problem, from my experience it usually exacerbates it.

I've had a look at the thread Stev_o linked to above, and all of the posters infracted by Ruggie were either members for years or had plenty of posts to their name. Ironically, it was a guy with 59 posts and who joined in May who was appealing for calm. Go figure.

thomond2006

Firstly, I have been guilty of slapping down on opinions that I feel are wrong and I apologise to anyone I pissed off or annoyed. I've calmed down by now (i hope ).

Secondly, I do believe that there should be more mods. Since I have a lot of time on my hands, I would volunteer to be a new moderator on the rugby forum
I do think Jackass, Stevo or Toomevara would be good candidates as well, if they are willing.

Thirdly, I wish people would stop giving out about ROG. Yes, I am a Munsterfan and therefore a ROG supporter but the problem is the constant ROG bickering is ruining the entire forum tbh.

There are others who come on the forum just to annoy other users
i.e. a user beginning with A and ending with C is always criticising my posts for some unknown reason.

Finally, have a nice day!

Amazotheamazing

I think we should make it an offence to compare Munster or Leinster to each other. There's dozens of teams in Europe, around 10 or 12 at the same level as either of the above, if you're trying to make a point you shouldn't always have to compare to Leinster or Munster.

Hyperbullet

I may not have very many posts on boards, I joined recently, but I do enjoy the debate and different viewpoints expressed on this forum, and I'd like to be part of it in future. Seems this week though its all about O Gara, some of it has been good, some lively debate, but it does boil down to slating, both him, and other board members. If there was a complete ban on talking about O Gara until the Lions tour is over, then that might help things. I have taken part in the most recent thread, it was fine for a while but has gone sour yet again. Think everyone is up in arms after last Saturday. Myself included.

ch2008

Glad to see this issue has been raised,its made the rugby forum quite ridiculous at times.
Perhaps posters should have to have at least 10 posts approved before being allowed post at will? Whenever a ban is placed on someone they should have to have posts approved 20 times. Not sure if this is possible but it could work.
I'd also like to add that a prominent poster in this thread has been often overly aggressive on threads and seems more inclined to ridicule people than make their point in an intelligent way. I feel this sets a tone for other posters.
In saying all of this I think its also vital that the forum doesnt become closed off to everyone but a select group

thomond2006

ch2008 wrote: »

I'd also like to add that a prominent poster in this thread has been often overly aggressive on threads and seems more inclined to ridicule people than make their point in an intelligent way. I feel this sets a tone for other posters.

If you are referring to me, then you are correct and I whole-heartedly apologise.

ch2008

thomond2006 wrote: »

If you are referring to me, then you are correct and I whole-heartedly apologise.

I'm actually not, but its not the point. I think rugby is a game based on an honour code so why not introduce that same ethic to the forum. The posters and not just the moderators should intervene when comments eh...stray.

Like egg-chasing vigilantes, so to speak

I also think this icon :rolleyes: should be banned. It makes my blood boil

thomond2006

ch2008 wrote: »

The posters and not just the moderators should intervene when comments eh...stray.

Like egg-chasing vigilantes, so to speak

I don't agree.

I think armchair modding is part of the problem and contributes to users not reporting trolling/abusive posts.