Crunch Fitness and their disgraceful treatment of loyal customers

I have a mate at home who is a member at crunch fitness in Dun Laoghaire and he just emailed me there asking for my opinion. I'm so disgusted by their attrocious behaviour that I thought I'd share it here. Hopefully someone from Crunch will come on and challenge or at least try and defend this outrageous behaviour but I won't get my hopes up and I certainly won't expect to see an apology.


Basically the other day they text his phone late afternoon around 4 or 5pm as they love to do (usually advertising their Peacock Salon ????? wtf ?) and they said he could renew his membership for 495 Euro if he got down BEFORE 10pm that night. The normal price is 550 Euro for a year so we are talking a saving of 55 Euro here (yes embarrising isn't it?). So they predictably and unsurprisingly sent him that message (predictable because his membership is nearly up). He went down an hour or so later to explain that he didn't have 495 Euro readily available at that moment but he would have it tomorrow.

Their response was "Sorry deal is for tonight only". This lad has been a member there since 2004 and has always paid in full every year i.e. not direct debit but that is besides the point. What sort of a disgraceful company treats a valuable customer in that manner ? Who do they think they are holding him to ransom like that ? Would they have preferred if he walked off ? Obviously not because they need every customer they can get for that place. That sort of behaviour wouldn't fly in a boom so what the hell are they doing acting like that in the current climate when more and more people are ditching Gyms ?

This is a time when companies (whether they like it or not) should be exceeding customer expectations regularly and fighting damn hard for every penny they get and to treat a loyal customer like that ?

It's a total joke.

PS: he ended up having to get someone to go down late that night to pay the "ransom" which is not what I would have done but he did it anyway. I'd have kept them waiting months personally and they would have taken my money in the end. What sort of a business is that ? It's clearly being run by a pack of blind monkeys. I've spoken to staff that worked there and they are anything but happy with the recent managerial changes in place the last few years.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Put simply its big business, they don't care for YOUR feelings and only see the bigger picture but in doing so they blind themselves to the truth - that the WE the customer's make up the bigger picture.

I've had similar, if not worse, treatment from TotalFitness (Malahide) despite being a member since the day it opened.

I left in protest and joined Ben Dunnes kip in Northwood, hated the sh*thole & sucked up the pain by recently going back to TotalFitness.

The difference now is that I don't feel a loyalty to TF, I won't recommend them to anyone (despite being in a position where I'm regularly asked for recommendations), I'll give them my yearly sub and fuck 'em to hell after.

Like me your friend probably felt a loyalty to them after so many years?, he's learned the hard way to let them go fuck themselves too.

.

MagicMarker

Over reaction tbh.

If he's as pissed off as you then he shouldn't have renewed his membership, and he should have sent a letter explaining why.

Hanley

Heh... they offered him a deal over and above what he would normally get, he couldn't do it, and they're the bad guys?

Roper

How is offerring a deal to someone disgraceful?

if I went into a shop and saw a jacket in a sale, I wouldn't expect to come back after the sale and get it for the same price.

Leprechaun77

It just depends on who you talk to in the gym. The people on the desk are given the instructions and have to respond this way. The same happened to me in relation to joining fees initially. I walked away that day and told them they were having a laugh..(I missed the offer by a few hours and had to pay about €50). The manager called me back within about 20 mins when I was in my car and gave me the same deal. The followng year they sent me a similar deal to the OP, but I was on holidays for a few weeks. I went in when I got back and got the same BS. I again walked away and within an hour, I get the call from the manager offering the lower rate. The truth is these gyms are desparate for members and subscriptions. Crunch is more expensive than most and should realise that it is easier to hold on to an existing customer than get a new one in this climate, where better deals are available.

Zamboni

I get these type of messages from Crunch every week.
The 'Limited Time' only is absolute nonsense.
If he walked in there today with the €495 and said they give him a membership or he walks, they'd have taken it.

HAHA. Can't believe what I'm reading here. Zamboni has hit the nail on the head - this wasn't even a deal. The "limited time" thing is total nonsense.

Hanley, Roper and co - What the hell are are you on about? This was standard crap. I thought you would have copped that. This is not the same as a sale in a shop. These are bog standard yearly renewal text message deals. We're talking 50 euro saving here. The Limited Time thing is a scam and never adhered to. He could have walked in two months later and they would have taken it. Do you people really think it's worth it for a company that would have taken the cash a week later to behave in such a way knowing full well they take the money when it is given to them? If a small business acted the same way, it would deserve to be closed down.

The company behaved in a disgraceful way. The fact that they send these spammy txts saying there is a deadline when there is anything but is a load of bull.

Leprechaun77

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

Crunch is more expensive than most and should realise that it is easier to hold on to an existing customer than get a new one in this climate, where better deals are available.

Spot on. And not just in this climate - any climate/boom/recession - the same applies, costs 5 times more to get a new customer than it is to keep an existing one.

If people do not understand that, I feel sorry for them.

Maybe I'm over-reacting slightly but it's been drilled into my head to treat your customers with the respect they deserve i.e. what they've shown you so four years of loyalty I was expecting a bit more to be honest.

Loveless

Zamboni wrote: »

The 'Limited Time' only is absolute nonsense.
If he walked in there today with the €495 and said they give him a membership or he walks, they'd have taken it.

yeah by the sounds of it if you walked in the next morning with €495 hard cash, they'd take your arm off and all.

floggg

Dude, relax.

Basically, its a marketing tool. They offer it with a time limit. People smell a discount, they get excited, they sign up before they actually get to evaluate whether or not its good value. It works, because your friend went back that evening. If the offer was open ended it would not be a special offer/discount. It would just be the price. And what would be interesting about that?

You also have to remember that the nearest your average gym receptionist type gets to decision making power is deciding which flavour smoothy she is going to have at lunch. Whoever he asked probably wasn't in the position to make any such concession.

I think the moral of this story is that your friend should have asked for the manager, explained the situation and if he didn't get joy, threaten to walk. Then it would be up to him to decide if he wanted to follow through with that or not.

Why do people always expect gyms to be their buddy? if vodafone put out an offer saying move to X payment plan by midnight and get a free iphone, you wouldn't expect them to hold one back for you until your next pay day!

The text message he received was a marketing tool.

The treatment and the manner in which the query was dealt was not. It was bad customer service. The tone, the phrase, the dismissive tone bad bad bad !!! You can not treat customers like dirt or take them for granted.

liamo

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA. Can't believe what I'm reading here. Zamboni has hit the nail on the head - this wasn't even a deal. The "limited time" thing is total nonsense.

So true! Every JS gym I've been in always has some kind of "limited offer", "last few places", "quickly, do it now", "Your last chance" kind of offer for membership or tanning or swim classes etc. However, it obviously works or they wouldn't still be doing it.

eclectichoney

As an aside, I think the 495 may be a genuine special offer, or certainly a new deal, as I pay 550 and I know a couple of others who pay the same.

550 is the old membership price. Anyone can get it for 495 if renewing any time soon.

Canis Lupus

Deleted User wrote: »

The text message he received was a marketing tool.

The treatment and the manner in which the query was dealt was not. It was bad customer service. The tone, the phrase, the dismissive tone bad bad bad !!! You can not treat customers like dirt or take them for granted.

If only people got so worked up by the things that really matter.

And what's that then?

rubadub

Zamboni wrote: »

If he walked in there today with the €495 and said they give him a membership or he walks, they'd have taken it.

+1

eclectichoney wrote: »

As an aside, I think the 495 may be a genuine special offer, or certainly a new deal, as I pay 550 and I know a couple of others who pay the same.

I see no real logical reason why 24hrs later they could not supply the same deal. There is no real rationale.

e.g. I did get a deal on an electrical item I was ordering from a company, it was a pre-order situation. In that case if you pre-ordered before a certain time it meant the company had money in their hand, the lower price meant many people pre-ordered, therefore they had a bigger order and cash in hand so presumably got a better deal from their supplier and ordered their usual shelf stock at the same time.

The 495 could be a new deal, but I cannot think of a reasonable explanation why it would suddenly be not worth their while to offer 24hours later. Unless for some oddball reason they needed a load of cash before that exact time, which would have not been needed 24hrs later. Which seems unlikely.

Exactly rubadub, there is no logical explanation. It's just terrible customer service unfortunately. An easy situation that could have been resolved with a bit of common sense but no, the most 'important receptionists' in the world don't seem to have that. Please !!! don't make me laugh.

Hanley

Deleted User wrote: »

The tone, the phrase, the dismissive tone bad bad bad !!! You can not treat customers like dirt or take them for granted.

I beg to differ... is your friend still a member there?

Look I get it, you think it was bad service. I agree. Your posts are almost arrogant in how they're coming across tho. It's obvious you've read a lot on marketing, exciting the customer, exceeding expectations etc etc.... but pratically it doesn't happen. IT should, but doesn't.

There's no need to go on such a huuuuuuuuuge rant about it.

celestial

Are you actually kidding me?

I opened this post expecting to read about how Crunch had put everyone in a room and locked the door, pouring boiling water on them or something.

It's a business, not a charity, right? Welcome to the real world! People WILL do these things to make you spend your money. Probably not doing yourself any favours getting so worked up about it:)

Ok well my job here is done once people see that it was a bad service. I'm satisfied. I'm not meaning to be arrogant but I'm just someone who is very passionate about this sort of stuff and I also understand the importance of looking after the people who help you have a business as I intend to do - the successful companies do it, it annoys me that Crunch didn't do it when it so easily could have been avoided. I'm sure of the 300/400 odd views this thread has had so far, I'm pretty sure a few people will be turned off by this and go to Total Fitness instead.

I know that's what I'll be doing when I'm back. They've lost me with these antics.

rant over

floggg

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly rubadub, there is no logical explanation. It's just terrible customer service unfortunately. An easy situation that could have been resolved with a bit of common sense but no, the most 'important receptionists' in the world don't seem to have that. Please !!! don't make me laugh.

I already gave you the logical explanation. if you put a time limit on an offer, people impulse buy so as to avoid missing out rather than taking time to appraise the offer. People love to think they have gotten a bargain. Also, if he was smart, he would have used the intervening period to price other gyms in the area before paying to ensure there wasn 't better value before paying. Time limits eliminate such conisderations.

At the end of the day, your friend clearly thought it was still a great offer and wasn't put off. He still jumped at offer. Now you might not like that service, but its not your money. He clearly thinks its value for money regardless.

Westwood did a "sign up by 5.00pm and pay no joing free" last year while i was still a member. My three flatmates all rushed down and joined at 4.55pm, and signed up to a 12 month contract. Two of them went thrice, one went once. If there was no time limit, probably only on of them would have actually signed up at the end.

Now at the end of that saga, i wasn't mad at WW for using slick marketing tools to ensnare my friends. i was disappointed in my friends for falling for them.

Its a business. They do what works. it did - your friend paid. Not all marketing is about customer service. Its often about dressing up something to make it look like more than it really is.

Well I'm pretty sure sensible people out there will take their money elsewhere if they deal with such crap customer service regardless of how many new people sign up. What goes around comes around.

celestial

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok well my job here is done once people see that it was a bad service. I'm satisfied. I'm not meaning to be arrogant but I'm just someone who is very passionate about this sort of stuff and I also understand the importance of looking after the people who help you have a business as I intend to do - the successful companies do it, it annoys me that Crunch didn't do it when it so easily could have been avoided. I'm sure of the 800 odd views this thread has had so far, I'm pretty sure a few people will be turned off by this and go to Total Fitness instead.

I know that's what I'll be doing when I'm back. They've lost me with these antics.

rant over

You can rant as you please but this is just your opinion. In my opinion you are wrong - it is NOT bad service. And I'm sure most of the people reading this will agree with me.

Company sends notification of time-sensitive special offer shock horror! You, as the customer, have two choices:

-Go to gym prior to time of expiry to avail of offer
-Shake your head at the text and don't bother rushing down to the gym, knowing that the same offer will probably crop up in another few weeks.

Reserve your passion for the stuff that deserves it.

I've plenty of passion . If a gym wants to act like it has a community feel to it as Crunch strives to achieve, it should act like it. That's all there is to it.

Transform

Has the former fitness director of crunch fitness (gosh must be over 5 years ago now) here is my take.

1. The buy now quick offer is more than likely related to the fact that it was end of last month and they wanted to keep their sales for that month up another few members so the sales people could get their respective bonuses (normally paid monthly) and no problem with that.

2. If you do not like it vote with your feet and go elsewhere.

3. Sales people are still sales people - they just want your money. Its up to the trainers to keep you happy and motivated in the gym.

My two cents

floggg

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok well my job here is done once people see that it was a bad service. I'm satisfied. I'm not meaning to be arrogant but I'm just someone who is very passionate about this sort of stuff and I also understand the importance of looking after the people who help you have a business as I intend to do - the successful companies do it, it annoys me that Crunch didn't do it when it so easily could have been avoided. I'm sure of the 300/400 odd views this thread has had so far, I'm pretty sure a few people will be turned off by this and go to Total Fitness instead.

I know that's what I'll be doing when I'm back. They've lost me with these antics.

rant over

TBH, how many successful companies have **** customer service - sky, ntl, dixons, jackie skelly, scientology, ryanair...

Some people hope to keep customers through good service, usually in return for a higher price. Or in other cases to mask in inferior product. E.g. dell have better customer service than sony, but dell computers break more.

Others base their business model of their low prices or the quality/exclusivity of their product.

Given your name, i would have thought you would have a greater understanding of market dynamics. I'm not trying to be criticial, but i think you are being a bit naive about it.

Obviously, good customer service is a great model, and personally i value it just as much as price. But many others don't - make sure you don't lose out to competitors by not understanding this.

rubadub

floggg wrote: »

I already gave you the logical explanation. if you put a time limit on an offer, people impulse buy so as to avoid missing out rather than taking time to appraise the offer.

I fully agree that is the probably the sole reason. The point I was making was

I see no real logical reason why 24hrs later they could not supply the same deal.

and agreeing if he walked in 24hrs later he might have got the same deal.

I gave the example of the electronics I got. Another could be supermarkets with fresh food on offer, a supplier might have a surplus and sell it cheap to them, supermarkets now often have a sign when the offer will end, so people buy it up before that date (it might go off otherwise).

It is just marketing, and I despise marketers (thought think I would be quite good at it ).

floggg

rubadub wrote: »

I fully agree that is the probably the sole reason. The point I was making was and agreeing if he walked in 24hrs later he might have got the same deal.

I gave the example of the electronics I got. Another could be supermarkets with fresh food on offer, a supplier might have a surplus and sell it cheap to them, supermarkets now often have a sign when the offer will end, so people buy it up before that date (it might go off otherwise).

It is just marketing, and I despise marketers (thought think I would be quite good at it ).

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

But seriously, i have no problem with them, because i feel i should be smart enough to see through the marketing ploy, and if i am not, then i deserve to be had. As with all things in live, people need to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

floggg

floggg wrote: »

Given your name, i would have thought you would have a greater understanding of market dynamics. I'm not trying to be criticial, but i think you are being a bit naive about it.

I understand market dynamics very well thanks very much, had more than enough of it in college.

Crunch are the "luxury" gym of gyms or at least they strive to be. As such they are generally more expensive and have the most luxury facilities (sauna, jacuzzi, dark lit, fancy swimming pool, loads and loads of cardio machines) they want to be the "Hollywood" of all gyms - this service doesn't correspond with the behaviour that my mate received and as such, Crunch have let themselves down, hopefully they will go out of business and someone with more balls and grit will turn the place around. End of story.

eclectichoney

Deleted User wrote: »

hopefully they will go out of business and someone with more balls and grit will turn the place around.

This may be a touch off topic and I apologise in advance. But wishing a company to go out of business? That's a little over the top, no? Just take your own business elsewhere, a much more simple solution. In this climate, a company going out of business won't do anyone any good really, it just means more job losses for ordinary workers most likely, as very few would set up a new gym at a time like this with minimal credit available to businesses.

I know I know, I apologise for that - over the top reaction and a very silly response on my part. Look I accept most peoples points in this thread - I was just a bit disappointed with their behaviour - I just felt exceptions should be made in certain instances (this being one). I'm a big fan of marketing and business in general and admit I went a bit overboard in this thread. It would be nice if they showed a bit of dignity to long standing customers though.

G86

I was a member in town for a year, cancelled my memebership a few months ago. When I called up to rejoin I was told it was 100Euro and 64Euro a month, or 50Euro if I got someone else ot join with me. I called back a week later and spoke to someone else, asked if there was any chance of skipping the joining fee, he said it was no problem and I'd pay 64Euro a month.

I then went in this week to rejoin on this offer and was offered the DD at 54 Euro per month.

They make their own rules, not that I'm complaining since I got down to 54:)

floggg

Deleted User wrote: »

I understand market dynamics very well thanks very much, had more than enough of it in college.

Crunch are the "luxury" gym of gyms or at least they strive to be. As such they are generally more expensive and have the most luxury facilities (sauna, jacuzzi, dark lit, fancy swimming pool, loads and loads of cardio machines) they want to be the "Hollywood" of all gyms - this service doesn't correspond with the behaviour that my mate received and as such, Crunch have let themselves down, hopefully they will go out of business and someone with more balls and grit will turn the place around. End of story.

Cool. I ccept your point below. I just will say though that if the "hollywood" image is what they are going for, then surely poor customer service is part of it? "Hollywood" to me says superficial, empty, vacuous, mercenary.

If you are looking for a good hearty amtmosphere and good customer service, stay away from chains. Their corporate structures, sales targets and internal politics are inconsistent with a truly customer service approach.

You will always get the best service from a smaller, privately owned place, where the management know the customers by name, and the contribution each member makes to feeding their family is actually appreciated.

Joe C

floggg wrote: »

Cool. I ccept your point below. I just will say though that if the "hollywood" image is what they are going for, then surely poor customer service is part of it? "Hollywood" to me says superficial, empty, vacuous, mercenary.

If you are looking for a good hearty amtmosphere and good customer service, stay away from chains. Their corporate structures, sales targets and internal politics are inconsistent with a truly customer service approach.

You will always get the best service from a smaller, privately owned place, where the management know the customers by name, and the contribution each member makes to feeding their family is actually appreciated.

Couldn't agree more.

I was member of Crunch in Dun Laoghaire a few years ago, I'm training in a smaller (yet much better equipped) gym in the city centre and I certainly wouldn't even consider going back.

I have been tempted a bit by Total Fitness though, but at least they've got a good setup there.

Hanley

floggg wrote: »

You will always get the best service from a smaller, privately owned place, where the management know the customers by name, and the contribution each member makes to feeding their family is actually appreciated.

And more importantly where the owners care about the progress that their customers make (in a gym setting).

floggg

Hanley wrote: »

And more importantly where the owners care about the progress that their customers make (in a gym setting).

Word

kevpants

There's a clothes shop up the road from me that have a sale on. I asked them if the sale was gonna last forever and they said no. What a bunch of d1cks!

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

There's a clothes shop up the road from me that have a sale on. I asked them if the sale was gonna last forever and they said no. What a bunch of d1cks!

Yeah but you're missing the point. They'll eventually have another sale on. So they should sell you the clothes at the "sale" price ALL the time.

Wow you two guys are like so cool.

Roper

So just to recap then. You reckoned Crunch were evil, and put up a post about it, but people don't agree so now they're up for slagging?

Be realistic. It's hardly headline stuff now is it? (You'll have to imagine the papers spinning) BUSINESS TRIES TO GET CUSTOMERS! SHOCK ATTEMPT TO GET CONSUMER TO PART WITH MONEY! OFFER NOT EXTENDED BEYOND CLEARLY STATED DEADLINE SHOCKER!

colly10

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a mate at home who is a member at crunch fitness in Dun Laoghaire and he just emailed me there asking for my opinion. I'm so disgusted by their attrocious behaviour that I thought I'd share it here. Hopefully someone from Crunch will come on and challenge or at least try and defend this outrageous behaviour but I won't get my hopes up and I certainly won't expect to see an apology.


Basically the other day they text his phone late afternoon around 4 or 5pm as they love to do (usually advertising their Peacock Salon ????? wtf ?) and they said he could renew his membership for 495 Euro if he got down BEFORE 10pm that night. The normal price is 550 Euro for a year so we are talking a saving of 55 Euro here (yes embarrising isn't it?). So they predictably and unsurprisingly sent him that message (predictable because his membership is nearly up). He went down an hour or so later to explain that he didn't have 495 Euro readily available at that moment but he would have it tomorrow.

Their response was "Sorry deal is for tonight only". This lad has been a member there since 2004 and has always paid in full every year i.e. not direct debit but that is besides the point. What sort of a disgraceful company treats a valuable customer in that manner ? Who do they think they are holding him to ransom like that ? Would they have preferred if he walked off ? Obviously not because they need every customer they can get for that place. That sort of behaviour wouldn't fly in a boom so what the hell are they doing acting like that in the current climate when more and more people are ditching Gyms ?

This is a time when companies (whether they like it or not) should be exceeding customer expectations regularly and fighting damn hard for every penny they get and to treat a loyal customer like that ?

It's a total joke.

PS: he ended up having to get someone to go down late that night to pay the "ransom" which is not what I would have done but he did it anyway. I'd have kept them waiting months personally and they would have taken my money in the end. What sort of a business is that ? It's clearly being run by a pack of blind monkeys. I've spoken to staff that worked there and they are anything but happy with the recent managerial changes in place the last few years.

It's just not smart business, he could have walked if he wanted to but chose not to. He certainly can't complain though cause renewing his membership that night encourages the behavior so they don't need to give a **** about customer service

Roper

Roper wrote: »

So just to recap then. You reckoned Crunch were evil, and put up a post about it, but people don't agree so now they're up for slagging?

Be realistic. It's hardly headline stuff now is it? (You'll have to imagine the papers spinning) BUSINESS TRIES TO GET CUSTOMERS! SHOCK ATTEMPT TO GET CONSUMER TO PART WITH MONEY! OFFER NOT EXTENDED BEYOND CLEARLY STATED DEADLINE SHOCKER!

Slagging? Oh cop on to yourself Roper, you're over 30 years old for gods sake, no need to act so silly. I'm not slagging the two lads, they were having a laugh at my expense (which is fair enough, few people agree with my point in this thread online or offline so that's that) so I had a bit of banter by calling the two boys "cool". No need to start your stirring which you thrive on.

To everyone else who posted here, just to recap, I admit that I got this one wrong. I don't think it was good treatment of a loyal customer and not how I would have done business if I was in charge there but regardless I don't really have a valid point or a leg to stand on in this instance since my mate ended up paying and yes it was marketing (not my kind of marketing) and the best way to get out of a situation like this if you're unhappy is to walk away as Transform and others have said. My whole point all along was that the customer service could have been better, and that just because they are a "big" company they should have made an exception in this instance for a member who had been there for over four years but it seems that big businesses shouldn't have to play by traditional, old fashioned (personal customer service) rules which is a bit dissapointing. I've no doubt that a small, personal, private gym (crossfit and similar setups) would have made this exception but that's besides the point. So I got this one wrong and I can admit it.

Roper

Deleted User wrote: »

Slagging? Oh cop on to yourself Roper, you're over 30 years old for gods sake, no need to act so silly. I'm not slagging the two lads, they were having a laugh at my expense (which is fair enough, few people agree with my point in this thread online or offline so that's that) so I had a bit of banter by calling the two boys "cool". No need to start your stirring which you thrive on.

Yeah I think you're wrong so I must be stirring. And it's been conclusively shown in customer service studies on market dynamics that the 30 plus age bracket enjoy silliness and not copping themselves on. That might be one to take note of in your next get rich qui... eh entreprenurial scheme.

g'em

Would it be at all possible to leave the sly digs and snide remarks out of this thread from everyone and be grown-ups please? It's a rhetorical question btw, leave off.

Roper

Roper wrote: »

Yeah I think you're wrong so I must be stirring. And it's been conclusively shown in customer service studies on market dynamics that the 30 plus age bracket enjoy silliness and not copping themselves on. That might be one to take note of in your next get rich qui... eh entreprenurial scheme.

You think I'm wrong yet you are the one who is againt big commercial gyms to begin with. I think you're a hypocrite. I've made valid points here, I admitted because the majority disagree with me that I got it wrong on this occassion, It's not so much that people think I'm wrong, I'm sure people would also like to live in a world where big companies don't treat customers like dirt, it's the fact that I don't have a leg to stand on because 1) my mate ended up paying and 2) They are a big company so this is standard practice "apparently". I disagree with it being standard practice and it's probably a primary reason why a lot of so called big companies are in the **** right now. I've admitted I'm running out of bait here - I've never seen you admit when you get it wrong and you get it wrong a lot not just with your points but with your behaviour.

You clearly don't see this because you come across as a guy who is lacking in many departments - manners, humility and just being a decent guy now and again instead of a downright dick who enjoys attempting to put people down at every shot you can get. It's pathetic and gets very tiring. I really think you need to act your age and set an example to people in your industry because your attitude stinks. I'd personally love to see what you're like in real life - see where the issues lie but I'm not that interested because people like yourself are best avoided as they are a waste of time.

g'em

g'em wrote: »

Would it be at all possible to leave the sly digs and snide remarks out of this thread from everyone and be grown-ups please? It's a rhetorical question btw, leave off.

What part of this did you not understand???

TheEntrepeneur banned for a week for personal abuse, what a horrible post to direct at someone.

Thread locked.