Corporal Punishment in School 1960-70s

LegacyUser

The titel makes it clear I suppose. I don't want to try to compare to the terrible abuse suffered by children in industrial schools but the recent publicity has brought back many memories of corporal punishment in schools which bordered on abuse.
I had been able to put this in the past and not really think about it. Recently, with work colleagues, many were recalling the beatings they received and they seem to have the view that 'it did them no harm'. For me however, the memory of those punishments reopens memories I would prefer to forget. i cannot treat it like my colleagues. I didn't even talk about it as I feel so ashamed.
I don't know why I seem to be so affected while other s can just let it lie. I know there is probably not too many people who went to school in the 1960s who make use of computers and internet but I wonder if any one else from that era has the same difficulty as me in putting it in the past.
Just to put it in context, i have adult children and would be ashamed to tell them how I was trated as a school child.

LegacyUser

I was born in 1973 and I remember getting beaten with a stick at national school. I also remember my parents slapping us or beating us with a stick or leather belt. I don't think I would describe my feelings on it as shame but it has without a doubt effected my confidence and self esteem as an adult. The school part I have largely forgotten about but the beatings and demeaning comments from my parents still affect me. I think beating a young child in or out of school is going to have an affect on them as adults whether they realize it or not. I can't really give you any advice rather than to try counselling. When you mention that you have feelings of great shame I would think that it is affecting you very badly and that there is a lot of repressed emotions that need addressing. Do you think that the child in you somehow thinks that you deserved this treatment and that's why the feelings of shame? I don't know but if it's affecting you so badly you should definitely talk to somebody professional. There is no shame in that, believe me! Hope you get through it ok!

LegacyUser

I was born in the late 60's.

Being beaten at home with a wooden spoon, hand etc in temper was routine and the same in school.

I dont know why some can shrug it off and some dwell on it. I have mixed feelings on it. I thought it was normal and never questioned it until lately when I see kids misbehaving in public and yet their parents don't clatter them.

This makes me angry. I feel the kids today get away with murder and are not properly disciplined. My nieces and nephews can run amok and speak over their parents and everyone acts as though this is normal.....

When my sister speaks of how we were brought up she says it was borderline abuse and dodgy. But to me it is normal for someone to strike you in anger if you have done something wrong. I have trouble understanding how kids could be brought up without knowing not to cross the line.

I think those were just different days and probably neither now or then is right. Somewhere in between would be a happy medium. This generation being brought up with no discipline have no boundaries in life and are selfish and spoiled. But us lot were polite, seen and not heard and lived in a far less child centric world.

Its gone too far now, but we cant turn back the clock either.....

ManOfMystery

Unregistered wrote: »

But to me it is normal for someone to strike you in anger if you have done something wrong. .

This is the epicentre of the issue, it's not normal. I know that's what you've been exposed to but if the majority of children are being shown that a loss of control/anger is ok, then that's what they'll emulate.

oil painting

Hi i was born in 78, I have no experience in school but was beaten badly at home by my mother and she was beaten by her parents too.

The previous un registered poster is a prime example of how you end up if you do not break the cycle,

Many people who deny the abuse they suffered themselves tend to have the attitude that it is condonable to use physical force to discipline a child.

I personaly believe we have much more skills emotionally within us to deal with children rather than hitting them and loosing control of ourselves,


the future way is to have zero tolerance for it, when you have a problem with an adult you dont strike them to make a point,

Children are smart intelligent beings and if treated with respect you will get respect back.

Having an attitude that a child deserves a good clatter is not respecting a person and their boundaries no matter how old they are.


I had major issues because i was bullied-physically and verbally at home, i was terrified i would hit my own kids so i went to therapy to try and get to the root of my pain so i could be emotionally stable,

It is fairly obvious for anyone who has issues today that there are issues in the past that have been repressed and are having an impact in life now.

Anyone who denies abuse is suffering inside somehow even if they dont admit it,

OP you will find that where you can admit it and acknowledge it to yourself -others find it too painful and develop a defense mechanism, but it is not you who is the weak one for acknowledging it rather they are the weak ones who carry on the deep rooted denial and pain but it can come across as if they are strong.


IMO.

LegacyUser

I was born in 1979 and suffered at the hands of both teachers and parents. Not brutal but still some left physial marks that I still carry today so it's not good really. It's humiliating and degrading and I will never understand why a parent would want their child to feel like that.
In truth I feel they are right, it did no harm, BUT it definitely did no good either so that's where the argument about turning me into what I am today falls down. All I learned was that you simply didn't get caught the next time and that violence is the only way to deal with frustration. It took along time to come to come to terms with that. I think about it more than I should and I have vowed that if I ever have kids in the future, never to resort to hitting to deal with my anger/frustration or whatever.
My mother (who only stopped hitting me when I hit her back once - which I'm not proud of) constantly says that when I have my own I'll be different but somehow I doubt that, my views on this are quite strong and I have yet to change my mind on the issue. There's very little you can do about what happened in the past other than not to let it affect your future. Life is an experience to say the least and I suppose we all need to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and make sure we learn from it.

LegacyUser

hi i think this is a very interesting issue - i was born early 70's, was beaten / caned by the nuns at school and at home we knew not to get on the wrong side of our mother, or the wooden spoon came out - I dont think it did me any harm. I agree with earlier poster that it galls me to see young kids these days behave appallingly and not be corrected properly on it (and interestingly I was listening to radio show last night about how teachers said they have no control on their classrooms anymore because kids 'know their rights' and push the limits with teachers).
This (corporal punishment) is too much of a grey area for it to deemed 100% wrong - like anything, too much too often is not good. I dont understand this thing of trying to 'reason' verbally for example, with an out-of-control, spoilt 5 year old when its throwing a tantrum. At some point, reasoning gets a parent nowhere. A sharp smack on the legs will teach there is pain to be associated with unaccepted bad behaviour. Eventually the child realises.. 'well if i do that, i get a smack that doesnt feel nice..' . I dont know, its a tough debate!

BroomBurner

I think there's a big difference between getting a smack if you're out of line, and some cane-happy teacher/parent. Even as a kid in primary school, I knew the difference. We had one teacher who was very physical and every child in the school knew that this teacher was psycho and it wasn't condoned. However, getting a smack from your parents for being disrespectful, or seriously misbehaving, shouldn't have any negative effect.

oil painting

I totally disagree with the previous posters on how children these days are out of hand or more cheeky or they are not disciplined correctly,

Children these days are more confident and stand up for themselves, this is a positive thing, the old ways of hitting or beating have gone out with the stone age,

it is the responsibility of us adults to find better ways to discipline children today, and if physical force of any kind is the answer then there is something seriously wrong, society condoned the cane in schools years ago there seems to be some of that attitude left if anyone that smacks there kids as if everyone is doing it and it ok or something,

Any therapist will tell you there is a zero tolerance for it no a days.
there is never an excuse to hit, smack, or beat a child,


No human has the right to touch another human being regardless of the actions of the child and as adults we should find alternative ways to discipline children,

Super nanny never hits or smacks but she has skills to deal with any disruptive child no matter how dysfunctional, its these skills that need to branch out into society,

It seems that the people who were smacked and say that it never did them any harm are the very ones condoning the act.

keefg

BroomBurner wrote: »

I think there's a big difference between getting a smack if you're out of line, and some cane-happy teacher/parent. Even as a kid in primary school, I knew the difference. We had one teacher who was very physical and every child in the school knew that this teacher was psycho and it wasn't condoned. However, getting a smack from your parents for being disrespectful, or seriously misbehaving, shouldn't have any negative effect.

I agree with you BroomBurner. As another poster has mentioned kids today pretty much do as they please without fear of any punishment. I think teachers have a hell of a job and don't envy it one bit.

All a kid has to worry about now when they misbehave is being told "Don't do it again".....yeah, that'll work :rolleyes:.

oil painting wrote: »

I totally disagree with the previous posters on how children these days are out of hand or more cheeky or they are not disciplined correctly,

Children these days are more confident and stand up for themselves, this is a positive thing, the old ways of hitting or beating have gone out with the stone age,

it is the responsibility of us adults to find better ways to discipline children today, and if physical force of any kind is the answer then there is something seriously wrong, society condoned the cane in schools years ago there seems to be some of that attitude left if anyone that smacks there kids as if everyone is doing it and it ok or something,

Any therapist will tell you there is a zero tolerance for it no a days.
there is never an excuse to hit, smack, or beat a child,


No human has the right to touch another human being regardless of the actions of the child and as adults we should find alternative ways to discipline children,

Super nanny never hits or smacks but she has skills to deal with any disruptive child no matter how dysfunctional, its these skills that need to branch out into society,

It seems that the people who were smacked and say that it never did them any harm are the very ones condoning the act.

Sorry oil painting......I disagree with every single sentence you typed there.

LegacyUser

Unregistered wrote: »

at home we knew not to get on the wrong side of our mother, or the wooden spoon came out - I dont think it did me any harm.

Although I was never really hit with it, there was a time we lived in fear of the wooden spoon. It was more of a symbol, than anything else.

Unregistered wrote: »

interestingly I was listening to radio show last night about how teachers said they have no control on their classrooms anymore because kids 'know their rights' and push the limits with teachers).

Teachers have gotten attacked by kids, but they will be sacked if they hit back.

Unregistered wrote: »

I dont understand this thing of trying to 'reason' verbally for example, with an out-of-control, spoilt 5 year old when its throwing a tantrum. At some point, reasoning gets a parent nowhere. A sharp smack on the legs will teach there is pain to be associated with unaccepted bad behaviour. Eventually the child realises.. 'well if i do that, i get a smack that doesnt feel nice..' . I dont know, its a tough debate!

Agreed. Oil Painting: this "Super Nanny" you speak of... who are they? A person, or a fictional character? Me thinks this "Super Nanny" ensured she only got well behaved kids, and not the social misfits who see nothing wrong with smacking people for silly reasons.

oil painting

keefg wrote: »

I agree with you BroomBurner. As another poster has mentioned kids today pretty much do as they please without fear of any punishment. I think teachers have a hell of a job and don't envy it one bit.

All a kid has to worry about now when they misbehave is being told "Don't do it again".....yeah, that'll work :rolleyes:.



Sorry oil painting......I disagree with every single sentence you typed there.

It is such a generalization to state that kids today pretty much do as they please without fear of any punishment, teachers have a tough job because classrooms are over crowded and their job is not paid or funded well enough. It is not the childrens fault.

Its the old moaning of kids today! there is nothing wrong with kids today!

if a child mis behaves there should be consequences but not punishment, and fear is not an effective way of disciplining a child,



Again we have to open our minds up to alternative methods of discipline.

LegacyUser

I've watched super nanny a couple of times and no she's not fictional. she is very impressive actually. She deals with very disruptive kids and she does a great job of teaching them the consequences of their bad behavior without physical or verbal punishment.
I would hope that if I ever had kids I would be like her(well not in image, just behavior).

We got caned and belted a lot in my family and I would say that we all suffer with lack of confidence these days , whereas my aunt never got physical with hers and they were lovely children who have turned into confident capable adults.

I agree that many kids today have no respect for their parents, but that's their parents fault for not starting with proper discipline from day one and only realizing when they are 6 or 7 that they are naughty. Many parents are lazy when it comes to disciplining small children. They get fed up trying and find it easier to let them have their way, and that's where the problem is. How are you suddenly going to change a child who doesn't listen to the word NO.

There are certainly better ways to discipline a child than with physical punishment, but not all parents are prepared to put the work in.

deisemum

I was born in 1964 and went to primary school in the late 60's/mid 70's.

I went to a rural school that had the "Mrs" who "taught" junior infants to second class and the "Master" who was a paedophile and taught 3rd to 6th class.

I cannot remember a day when some pupil wasn't caned or punched. Most girls from 3rd class up were sexually assaulted by the master. Back then teaching was seen as a profession unlike nowadays where it's just seen as a job, teachers were seen as "the pillars of the community" which were meant to be respected.

It was also a time if you went home and told your parents that you were caned even in the wrong then most pupils got walloped from their parents. Most parents would have torn strips of their children if they admitted to being hit in school. Those that didn't were the exception, my brother in law told his mother how he was hit in school one day, well his mother tore up to the school and walloped the teacher (principal) with the sweeping brush around the classroom. None of her children were ever hit by a teacher again. My husband also remembers a similar case.

I hated primary school but enjoyed secondary school. I was still in secondary school when the ban of corporal punishment was introduced but it did not stop the violent teachers from hitting or punching pupils. I witnessed a male teacher punch a boy in the face and split his mouth open with blood pumping everywhere. This "pillar of the community" is a vice principal these days and still teaches and punches pupils but nowadays when he loses it and punches a pupil he gives them money afterwards.

The day the ban on corporal punishment came info force one of the boys stuck the newspaper article about it on the school noticeboard but he was spotted doing it by one of the nuns who then proceeded to wallop him all the way down to the staffroom.

Wheneven I hear the phrase "pillar of the community" I automatically think what is this so called "pillar of the community" guilty of because there have been so many of these pillars found guilty of all sorts of abuse or dodgy dealings.

Legally corporal punishment is banned in schools it's still going on in a number of schools.

Oh The Humanity

I dont feel modern discipline works at all. I think as said above society is far too child centric to a ridiculous degree.

I see parents struggling trying to emulate the naughty step etc but unless you have all day to do nothing else only try to reason with a tiny undeveloped mind in reality its just showbiz magic. Supernanny herself has no kids of her own. You would wonder why.

I think a mixture of reasoning but with the threat of a slap if they are way out of line. For example if a child tries to run out on a road or bites another kid etc those to me are examples of when a sharp slap is justified.

I was always slapped by parents if I was out of line and it did me good, I copped onto myself much quicker and did not grow up spoiled. So in school I was good as gold and listened to what was required and expected.

You see 'kids today' (cant believe Im using that phrase) running around restaurants and pubs ruining it for everyone else unchecked. The parents don't understand this is wrong. Then you get kids left try to dictate their own bedtime and screaming the house down all night demanding to come into bed with the parents.

It seems every whim is indulged and I think this is wrong. Kids should know to fear their parents and teachers to a healthy degree, but discipline should be fair and kids should understand that.

They should also understand that adults supercede them and their wishes. I dont agree that they are just confident and standing up for themselves I think they have become like little Gods in themselves and everyone is expected to put them first. No, adults come first in my book and thats the end of it.

As a kid thats the way we were raised and it does not do you any harm to understand you dont get your own way on demand.

I was in a Kylemore cafe there recently and a man was holding up the whole queue for ages while his two pre-school age kids picked their food. There was two old women behind one on a walking stick and the other was obviously suffering in the heat too. The man was totally oblivious passing the plates back and forth changing the items at the whimsy of the kids.

I thought that was disgraceful but all too common. It does kids no harm at all to be given something to eat that the parents choose. If they dont like it they dont get something else. Simple as.

I think kids have become little Gods these days and that why they are attacking teachers in schools and running riot everywhere, they think their own ego is king.

deisemum

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I dont feel modern discipline works at all. I think as said above society is far too child centric to a ridiculous degree.

I see parents struggling trying to emulate the naughty step etc but unless you have all day to do nothing else only try to reason with a tiny undeveloped mind in reality its just showbiz magic. Supernanny herself has no kids of her own. You would wonder why.

I think a mixture of reasoning but with the threat of a slap if they are way out of line. For example if a child tries to run out on a road or bites another kid etc those to me are examples of when a sharp slap is justified.

I was always slapped by parents if I was out of line and it did me good, I copped onto myself much quicker and did not grow up spoiled. So in school I was good as gold and listened to what was required and expected.

You see 'kids today' (cant believe Im using that phrase) running around restaurants and pubs ruining it for everyone else unchecked. The parents don't understand this is wrong. Then you get kids left try to dictate their own bedtime and screaming the house down all night demanding to come into bed with the parents.

It seems every whim is indulged and I think this is wrong. Kids should know to fear their parents and teachers to a healthy degree, but discipline should be fair and kids should understand that.

They should also understand that adults supercede them and their wishes. I dont agree that they are just confident and standing up for themselves I think they have become like little Gods in themselves and everyone is expected to put them first. No, adults come first in my book and thats the end of it.

As a kid thats the way we were raised and it does not do you any harm to understand you dont get your own way on demand.

I was in a Kylemore cafe there recently and a man was holding up the whole queue for ages while his two pre-school age kids picked their food. There was two old women behind one on a walking stick and the other was obviously suffering in the heat too. The man was totally oblivious passing the plates back and forth changing the items at the whimsy of the kids.

I thought that was disgraceful but all too common. It does kids no harm at all to be given something to eat that the parents choose. If they dont like it they dont get something else. Simple as.

I think kids have become little Gods these days and that why they are attacking teachers in schools and running riot everywhere, they think their own ego is king.

What you've described there especially the restaurant scenario is not the childrens fault, it's the parents who are not stepping up to the plate and parenting.

One thing I've noticed so often is parents threatening a child that they can't have something or go somewhere if the child doesn't do as requested yet when the child ignores the parent's request the parent will often give in and not follow through. The child is only doing what it knows will work.

oil painting

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I dont feel modern discipline works at all. I think as said above society is far too child centric to a ridiculous degree.

I see parents struggling trying to emulate the naughty step etc but unless you have all day to do nothing else only try to reason with a tiny undeveloped mind in reality its just showbiz magic. Supernanny herself has no kids of her own. You would wonder why.

I think a mixture of reasoning but with the threat of a slap if they are way out of line. For example if a child tries to run out on a road or bites another kid etc those to me are examples of when a sharp slap is justified.

I was always slapped by parents if I was out of line and it did me good, I copped onto myself much quicker and did not grow up spoiled. So in school I was good as gold and listened to what was required and expected.

You see 'kids today' (cant believe Im using that phrase) running around restaurants and pubs ruining it for everyone else unchecked. The parents don't understand this is wrong. Then you get kids left try to dictate their own bedtime and screaming the house down all night demanding to come into bed with the parents.

It seems every whim is indulged and I think this is wrong. Kids should know to fear their parents and teachers to a healthy degree, but discipline should be fair and kids should understand that.

They should also understand that adults supercede them and their wishes. I dont agree that they are just confident and standing up for themselves I think they have become like little Gods in themselves and everyone is expected to put them first. No, adults come first in my book and thats the end of it.

As a kid thats the way we were raised and it does not do you any harm to understand you dont get your own way on demand.

I was in a Kylemore cafe there recently and a man was holding up the whole queue for ages while his two pre-school age kids picked their food. There was two old women behind one on a walking stick and the other was obviously suffering in the heat too. The man was totally oblivious passing the plates back and forth changing the items at the whimsy of the kids.

I thought that was disgraceful but all too common. It does kids no harm at all to be given something to eat that the parents choose. If they dont like it they dont get something else. Simple as.

I think kids have become little Gods these days and that why they are attacking teachers in schools and running riot everywhere, they think their own ego is king.

its sounds like you think children are second class citizens, and you are resentful that children now a days are confident and expressive, they are like this because they are not afraid and are being hit/slapped/beaten, they have higher self esteem,

TBH from your post you sound like you have been effected by your upbringing, and it has done you some harm, self esteem involves not thinking you deserved a good slap.

If you dont have the respect for yourself and your experience as a child then you wont have it for anyone else- hence the opinion you now have of children's rights.

Wibbs

Lets all please keep on the original topic. If some want to discuss the wider debate about children and parenting, please take it to the Humanities forum. Not here. Thanks.

Oh The Humanity

Sorry for going off topic there.

I guess what I was trying to illustrate is that the Corporal punishment that went on years ago was severe abuse. No one can deny that.

And I think a sad result of that Corporal punishment is that things have gone in the opposite direction in order to avoid such abuse ever happening again. The balance and sensible-ness is lost. People are so afraid of not abusing kids they now do the opposite.

keefg

oil painting wrote: »

It is such a generalization to state that kids today pretty much do as they please without fear of any punishment

But a very true generalisation.

oil painting wrote: »

teachers have a tough job because classrooms are over crowded and their job is not paid or funded well enough. It is not the childrens fault.

Can you please explain the direct link between a persons salary and the behaviour of a child?

Do you think children (and I'm talking all ages here from primary to secondary) behave well if they know a teacher is on a good salary?

Or that they misbehave even more than normal if they know a teacher is on a low salary?

In my experience a badly behaved kid is just that....regardless of what salary their teacher is on.

oil painting wrote: »

Its the old moaning of kids today! there is nothing wrong with kids today!

Kids are the same now as they have been since the 60's, the difference is in the social climate where we live in a nanny society and in constant fear of litigation.

Kids today exploit this nanny state and behave any which way they like without fear of punishment.

Ask any joy rider under 18 are they worried about the consequences of their action, I'd bet they say no because there are no consequences to face.

There have been regular reports from many countries over the last 20 years of violence toward teachers in the work place. Some have been subjected to horrendous beatings and even sexual assault and rape.

If this is this "new confidence" you speak of then I think I prefer the "old" days where there were real punishments that worked.

oil painting wrote: »

if a child mis behaves there should be consequences but not punishment, and fear is not an effective way of disciplining a child,

Would you care to give us some examples? And please don't spout on about "Supernanny"....it's just a tv show which is heavily edited and broadcast for the purpose of entertainment.

Are you telling me that if a 5ft 10in, heavy built 15 year old boy is acting violently or aggressive toward his teacher because he doesn't want to follow the rules will back down with a threat of "5 mins on the naughty step"?

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I guess what I was trying to illustrate is that the Corporal punishment that went on years ago was severe abuse. No one can deny that.

Whilst I sympathise with your case I do think it's an exception to the behaviour of most modern schools.

I think there is a big difference between the abuse you suffered/witnessed to the more accepted corporal punishment methods (cane, slipper etc)

I left school in 1987 so I was there to witness the transition and I remember how happy my friends & I were when corporal punishment was banned.

Not because we thought it was barbaric or abusive but because we knew then that we could do anything we wanted knowing the teachers were powerless to stop us. Of course we still had to worry about getting a slap of mum or dad if the teacher contacted them but that's frowned upon as well today, so back to my original point.......that kids today pretty much do as they please without fear of any punishment.

melekalikimaka

after reading this... you have to wonder how much our country will change once the new generation of abuse free children, with high self esteem and respect will effect it. The attitude where he who is in charge rules all is out the window... i can only see this as a good thing. Its actually sadding to see people defend, actually defend the practice of beating defencless children... I really feel on a completely other level with the previous generation

techdiver

melekalikimaka wrote: »

after reading this... you have to wonder how much our country will change once the new generation of abuse free children, with high self esteem and respect will effect it. The attitude where he who is in charge rules all is out the window... i can only see this as a good thing. Its actually sadding to see people defend, actually defend the practice of beating defencless children... I really feel on a completely other level with the previous generation

Went to school in the 80's and was subjected to Corporal punishment and it did me no harm what so ever. It should be brought back in to deal with the little s**ts that run wild in the streets today with no consequences!

melekalikimaka

techdiver wrote: »

Went to school in the 80's and was subjected to Corporal punishment and it did me no harm what so ever. It should be brought back in to deal with the little s**ts that run wild in the streets today with no consequences!

i'm afraid i have been brought up with the mindset where violence isnt a solution.

techdiver

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'm afraid i have been brought up with the mindset where violence isnt a solution.

Well unfortunately violence and disorder is a bi-product of our lack of proper discipline in schools and in the home over the past 15 or so years. We have invented disorders to excuse behavioural problems among children. The latest doozy is ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). What a laugh. What about maybe calling a spade a spade and saying that the child in question is a brat and needs a clip around the ear!

melekalikimaka

techdiver wrote: »

Well unfortunately violence and disorder is a bi-product of our lack of proper discipline in schools and in the home over the past 15 or so years. We have invented disorders to excuse behavioural problems among children. The latest doozy is ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). What a laugh. What about maybe calling a spade a spade and saying that the child in question is a brat and needs a clip around the ear!

because hitting a defencless child is wrong...morally wrong my modern standards... we have evolved socially past the point where hitting someone is an answer to a problem... do ou honestly think that smacking a child... or anyone who is not in a position to defend him or herself it right???

techdiver

melekalikimaka wrote: »

because hitting a defencless child is wrong...morally wrong my modern standards... we have evolved socially past the point where hitting someone is an answer to a problem... do ou honestly think that smacking a child... or anyone who is not in a position to defend him or herself it right???

In certain scenarios ........... yes! I'm not advocating beating children senseless or anything of the sort. It should be used as a deterrent. We have gone from one extreme to the other in this country and in the grand scheme of things I want to be able to walk home at night without being attacked at knife point by some little scumbag with no raring!

I suppose it's better to molly coddle them and qualify the opinion that they are only doing what they are doing because of some fashionable, fantastic disorder!

keefg

melekalikimaka wrote: »

after reading this... you have to wonder how much our country will change once the new generation of abuse free children, with high self esteem and respect will effect it.

Erm....respect for who/what exactly? Teachers? Gardai? the judicial system?

melekalikimaka wrote: »

The attitude where he who is in charge rules all is out the window... i can only see this as a good thing.

So the alternative is what? Anarchy?

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Its actually sadding to see people defend, actually defend the practice of beating defencless children... I really feel on a completely other level with the previous generation

There is a big difference to "beating defenceless children" and corporal punishment. I'm not talking about teachers beating a 5 year old girl/boy black & blue but you take a wander into a secondary school in Blanchardstown, Limerick, Finglas etc etc and tell me how many defenceless children you meet.

"Kids" nowadays (12-18) have a very different attitude toward authority than kids of the same age who grew up during the 70's & 80's.....to put it crudely, most of them couldn't give a f**k about any type of authority including, sadly, their own parents.

I know from personal experience that a kid who is seen as a tearaway/gurrier/scumbag (call them what you will) at school rarely goes on to make a positive contribution to society once they leave school.

melekalikimaka

keefg wrote: »

I know from personal experience that a kid who is seen as a tearaway/gurrier/scumbag (call them what you will) at school rarely goes on to make a positive contribution to society once they leave school.

I'm not gonna answer the other points... your answers dont make sense to me, so i cant see hitting back with a response will go anywhere.

on the last point tho, i understand, i suppose my experiences in school have been with good students and mutual respect between students and teachers.

i'll repeat my previous question, i'll reword tho to match your comments.

do you think its right for a teacher to hit a child... up to the age of leaving school? to punish him or her for misbehaving. if you had a child you would allow another man or woman to cause your own child pain... based on his or her opionion that your child is doing something wrong?

Das Kitty

I was born in 1980 and a teacher dislocated my shoulder when I was in primary school, it was an unintentional dislocation but he meant to hurt me by lifting me suddenly by the arm out of my seat, the headmaster knocked it back into its socket afterwards and said nothing to my mother.

Nothing was done, when I told my mother what happened she assumed I was exaggerating. The searing screaming pain however and the audible pop, in retrospect it was unmistakable.

I will be making a point of telling my kids about this incident and the countless incidents of caning that my mother and aforementioned headmaster told me about their schooldays, they need to know that it's wrong.

OP, I really think it would be cathartic for you to tell your adult children about it, you say you feel ashamed but you are the last person who should feel ashamed.

keefg

melekalikimaka wrote: »

because hitting a defencless child is wrong...morally wrong my modern standards... we have evolved socially past the point where hitting someone is an answer to a problem... do ou honestly think that smacking a child... or anyone who is not in a position to defend him or herself it right???

Even if I don't agree with your view I do respect it. I know a lot of parents who feel the same way you do about physically punishing their children (and most of them have kids who are right little sh1ts, go figure:rolleyes:).

So would you care to enlighten us barbarians as to how unruly children should be disciplined?

Perhaps you can break it down into age groups...

5-8 years old.
9-12 years old.
13-17 years old.

I'd be really glad to hear some credible suggestions that teachers can put to use.

keefg

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I'm not gonna answer the other points... your answers dont make sense to me, so i cant see hitting back with a response will go anywhere.

Meh....what a cop out! You can't think of a suitable argument to support your view so you blame it on me not making sense.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'll repeat my previous question, i'll reword tho to match your comments.

do you think its right for a teacher to hit a child... up to the age of leaving school? to punish him or her for misbehaving. if you had a child you would allow another man or woman to cause your own child pain... based on his or her opionion that your child is doing something wrong?

Yes.