Irish culture

Affable

How would you describe it and how do you think Irish attitudes differ to British ones?

Joey the lips

No doubt this is heading towards 800 years of conflict but if we can meanage to keep it straight I think it would be easier to say

How do the Irish differ than the

English

Scottish

Welsh

As britain takes in the whole lot

Needs to say I am glad I am irish but if I had to pick a british person I would pick a scotsman as even there accent is funny never mind there wit. I find the english boreing and when they are down they seem miserable. I hate how there kids behave and I prob hate there customs in general, For example they always say Hi how are you! and I know they could not give a dam! The welsh. They seem lovely never met a bad welsh person on a trip on holyhead one time!

Affable

Joey the lips wrote: »

Needs to say I am glad I am irish but if I had to pick a british person I would pick a scotsman as even there accent is funny never mind there wit. I find the english boreing and when they are down they seem miserable. I hate how there kids behave and I prob hate there customs in general, For example they always say Hi how are you! and I know they could not give a dam! The welsh. They seem lovely never met a bad welsh person on a trip on holyhead one time!

How do you mean how the kids behave?

Wibbs

I would think they are very hard to pin down, both Irish and British. A english guy of trinidadian descent is going to different life experiences and outlook to an english woman from the huntin' fishin' shootin' set say. I would say in very general terms the Irish talk more, have less social barriers and will push those barriers more.

irish_bob

based on personal experience , i very much like english people , i have cousins in wales so i cant say too much about them , as for the scotts , never met one i liked yet , cynical , obtuse , judgemental and harsh

Affable

irish_bob wrote: »

based on personal experience , i very much like english people , i have cousins in wales so i cant say too much about them , as for the scotts , never met one i liked yet , cynical , obtuse , judgemental and harsh

Yes, I think tbh Irish more similar to English than Scots. Scots are hard to fathom tbh. We don't get along great.

irish_bob

Affable wrote: »

Yes, I think tbh Irish more similar to English than Scots. Scots are hard to fathom tbh. We don't get along great.

its a myth than the scotts are like the irish , they are like the northern irish

Affable

irish_bob wrote: »

its a myth than the scotts are like the irish , they are like the northern irish

Yes I've felt that. Have you lived there?(Scotland)?

Joey the lips

Affable wrote: »

How do you mean how the kids behave?

If you dont know what I mean you cant identify with the problem so no point in building a prejudice!

Affable

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you dont know what I mean you cant identify with the problem so no point in building a prejudice!

I wont build a prejudice, I'm English, was just curious for you to elaborate--won't be offended.

Affable

Wibbs wrote: »

I would think they are very hard to pin down, both Irish and British. A english guy of trinidadian descent is going to different life experiences and outlook to an english woman from the huntin' fishin' shootin' set say. I would say in very general terms the Irish talk more, have less social barriers and will push those barriers more.

Who is harsher IYO? Like, who is harder to get closer to?

Wibbs

I would say in very general terms the Irish are the easiest to get closer to on the surface at least. The British, especially the english are less so on the surface, but get beyond that and I have found them reliable in general, though tehy do feel more detached. I think the English for all their so called "politeness" stuff are far more likely to say no to you compared to the Irish. The Irish have a tendency to always say yes even when they mean maybe, or even no. They're much more afraid of saying no. That goes for other cultures by comparison too. I would say the Irish are more Latin than saxon. We're quite similar to Italians and Spanish etc, than say the English would be. My humble anyway.

Affable

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say in very general terms the Irish are the easiest to get closer to on the surface at least. The British, especially the english are less so on the surface, but get beyond that and I have found them reliable in general, though tehy do feel more detached.

Good description. Same with northerners really, can get much closer quicker, surface wise but it don't mean as much as you think in my experience.

DoireNod

People from the North are more like Scots than Irish? I don't think so and I'm not sure where that comes from. For me, this is the kind of attitude that only serves to compound the view that 'The North' is other and 'not really Ireland', which is a view I immensely dislike.

I think the only thing that makes people from the North different to those in the South is the accent - we're all Irish (with exceptions of course) at the end of the day. In terms of culture, I haven't noticed any difference between people from the North and people from the South; we both drink excessively, fight, slag each other, play the GAA and so on. As a side-note, all of my friends from the North consider themselves Irish (there is no 'Northern Irish').

We are completely different from the English in general terms; our humour is different and our history is taught from our (right) perspective . However, deeply embedded within Irish culture is an overbearing stench of English culture. For example, its soccer teams are first choice teams for many here and its television dominates our screens...

I think we Irish are similar to the Scots in that we are of similar stock and historically, we have both clashed violently with the English. I don't know about the Welsh though.

To be honest, some of the views that I've read so far are quite strange!

DoireNod

Wibbs wrote: »

The Irish have a tendency to always say yes even when they mean maybe, or even no. They're much more afraid of saying no.

I'd agree with this. My American uncle has said this to me on so many occasions about my family!

I would say the Irish are more Latin than saxon. We're quite similar to Italians and Spanish etc, than say the English would be.

Or Hiberno-Celtic even?

Joey the lips

Affable wrote: »

I wont build a prejudice, I'm English, was just curious for you to elaborate--won't be offended.

Kids seem to hang out of there mothers and moan until they get something which is fine cause Irish kids do this as well but english parents talk back to them like they are talking to an adult and the kid is going to understand. This makes the kid moan more which makes the parent explain more. It ends up sounding like one big moaning session and the parent looks knackered.

Irish way

Kid~: Mam can you buy me one of them

Mam: No you got enough

Kid: Maaaammmmm

Mam: Shut up you little sh1t or I will lock you up when you get home!


You get the jist!

Wibbs

DoireNod wrote: »

In terms of culture, I haven't noticed any difference between people from the North and people from the South; we both drink excessively, fight, slag each other, play the GAA and so on. As a side-note, all of my friends from the North consider themselves Irish (there is no 'Northern Irish').

Are they all of one "side" or the other. Big diff.

We are completely different from the English in general terms; our humour is different

There are differences but not nearly to that degree IMHO

and our history is taught from our (right) perspective .

History always is.

However, deeply embedded within Irish culture is an overbearing stench of English culture. For example, its soccer teams are first choice teams for many here and its television dominates our screens...

Stench is a tad strong don't you think. Whatabout the "stench" of american culture?

I'd agree with this. My American uncle has said this to me on so many occasions about my family!

It's one of the few things that písses me off about my fellow Irish actually. This "ah sure yea we'll sort that" and then nothing happens.

Or Hiberno-Celtic even?

There's little enough celt in us actually from a genetic point of view. In any case I meant temperament wise we're more like the latins, than the saxons.

Húrin

DoireNod wrote: »

Or Hiberno-Celtic even?

How long will it be until this myth is dispelled? The Celts never colonised Ireland, they just influenced and traded with those here already. We are descended mostly from the same people who have lived here for thousands of years.

DoireNod

Wibbs wrote: »

Are they all of one "side" or the other. Big diff.

If you're speaking of political allegiance, this is true; a protestant unionist would probably consider themselves British or Northern Irish rather than Irish, but in all honesty I don't think I know anyone personally from the other 'side'. As I said, for my friends who were born in the North, they're Irish above all else.

Stench is a tad strong don't you think. Whatabout the "stench" of american culture?

You are right. I got carried away with the description to be honest! American culture pervades ours so much, it's getting to the stage where it is actually detrimental. What do you think?

There's little enough celt in us actually from a genetic point of view. In any case I meant temperament wise we're more like the latins, than the saxons.

Are you sure that it's that unlikely? Does the term Celt not include the ethnic people that inhabited much of northern Europe as well as places like Scotland, Wales and Ireland? Gauls for example were of similar stock, no? I do understand that due to mass colonisation over the years, other cultures, such as that of the Vikings and Anglo-Normans have had a huge impact on the shaping of so-called 'Irish' culture.

You are right about the temperament of the Latins and Irish being similar; perhaps it has something to do with the Catholic church (which is another big factor in our general attitude and culture)? ha :pac:

irish_bob

Affable wrote: »

Yes I've felt that. Have you lived there?(Scotland)?

no but have had dealings with scotts while living overseas , all of it negative

irish_bob

DoireNod wrote: »

People from the North are more like Scots than Irish? I don't think so and I'm not sure where that comes from. For me, this is the kind of attitude that only serves to compound the view that 'The North' is other and 'not really Ireland', which is a view I immensely dislike.

I think the only thing that makes people from the North different to those in the South is the accent - we're all Irish (with exceptions of course) at the end of the day. In terms of culture, I haven't noticed any difference between people from the North and people from the South; we both drink excessively, fight, slag each other, play the GAA and so on. As a side-note, all of my friends from the North consider themselves Irish (there is no 'Northern Irish').

We are completely different from the English in general terms; our humour is different and our history is taught from our (right) perspective . However, deeply embedded within Irish culture is an overbearing stench of English culture. For example, its soccer teams are first choice teams for many here and its television dominates our screens...

I think we Irish are similar to the Scots in that we are of similar stock and historically, we have both clashed violently with the English. I don't know about the Welsh though.

To be honest, some of the views that I've read so far are quite strange!

irish humour and english is quite similar in many ways i think , irish people identify ( though will rarely admit it ) with british culture more than any other , we like the same sport , football teams , soaps and food , thier celebs are our celebs , its an undeniable fact

ps

when i said the scotts are like the northern irish , i meant the british who live in northern ireland although nationalists in northern ireland have that cynical and untrusting outlook too in many ways though they are less harsh

Wibbs

DoireNod wrote: »

If you're speaking of political allegiance, this is true; a protestant unionist would probably consider themselves British or Northern Irish rather than Irish, but in all honesty I don't think I know anyone personally from the other 'side'. As I said, for my friends who were born in the North, they're Irish above all else.

Yes but because of political allegiance as much as anything. Plus you've left out a majority of those who don't feel the same. It's a pre selection idea of Irishness.

You are right. I got carried away with the description to be honest! American culture pervades ours so much, it's getting to the stage where it is actually detrimental. What do you think?

Yes and no. Cultures cross pollinate all the time and in the middle of that people can get twitchy. Hell the ancient Greeks said similar about outside influences. I think it will always happen and I think for the most part it's advantageous and it's rarey complete replacement even when that's been attempted. History has shown us that.

Are you sure that it's that unlikely? Does the term Celt not include the ethnic people that inhabited much of northern Europe as well as places like Scotland, Wales and Ireland? Gauls for example were of similar stock, no? I do understand that due to mass colonisation over the years, other cultures, such as that of the Vikings and Anglo-Normans have had a huge impact on the shaping of so-called 'Irish' culture.

The celtic "invasion" here was far more cultural than genetic. We have more genes in common with Galician Spaniards than gauls as an example. Gauls would be closer to anglo saxons funny enough.

You are right about the temperament of the Latins and Irish being similar; perhaps it has something to do with the Catholic church (which is another big factor in our general attitude and culture)? ha :pac:

Maybe so actually. There is a general difference between protestant cultures and catholic in europe. The former more sober and the latter more emotional.

DoireNod

irish_bob wrote: »

when i said the scotts are like the northern irish , i meant the british who live in northern ireland although nationalists in northern ireland have that cynical and untrusting outlook too in many ways though they are less harsh

You are probably right in that respect. I feel that the general atmosphere is very different in the North, but that's probably because of the tensions that are present. When I visit my family in Donegal, just 30 minutes from Derry, it seems much more relaxed, but maybe that's just psychological on my part. However, as far as social contexts go, I feel that individually we are very much the same.

dlofnep

DoireNod wrote: »

If you're speaking of political allegiance, this is true; a protestant unionist would probably consider themselves British or Northern Irish rather than Irish, but in all honesty I don't think I know anyone personally from the other 'side'. As I said, for my friends who were born in the North, they're Irish above all else.

No difference in levels of Irishness to me between someone from Derry and someone from Waterford. You're going to have to forgive some of the Unionist pandering on here.

It reminds me of Sammy Wilson's quote on Ali G.

"So is you Irish?"
"No, I'm British!"
"So is you on holidays then?"

For me, Irish culture is a broad array of things. Music, sport, history, dance, language, quirky humour and a go-getter attitude. Obviously there are always exceptions to the rule.

irish_bob

dlofnep wrote: »

No difference in levels of Irishness to me between someone from Derry and someone from Waterford. You're going to have to forgive some of the Unionist pandering on here.

It reminds me of Sammy Wilson's quote on Ali G.

"So is you Irish?"
"No, I'm British!"
"So is you on holidays then?"

For me, Irish culture is a broad array of things. Music, sport, history, dance, language, quirky humour and a go-getter attitude. Obviously there are always exceptions to the rule.

i agree bar the go-getter attitude , being a go getter is still largley frowned upon in this country , when we go abroad , we are go-getters though

mike65

Self absorbed, drunk and begruding?

dlofnep

mike65 wrote: »

Self absorbed, drunk and begruding?

Aren't you English, Mike?

mike65

I was wondering why the OP decided to address this matter by referencing the British, way not just consider Irish social culture on its own merits?

Wibbs

dlofnep wrote: »

You're going to have to forgive some of the Unionist pandering on here.

Huh? It's hardly pandering to suggest the chap left out a large proportion of the population of the north and that may skew his idea of northern Irish and how they may see themselves.

It reminds me of Sammy Wilson's quote on Ali G.

"So is you Irish?"
"No, I'm British!"
"So is you on holidays then?"

Yea funny I grant you, but again it's the subtleties. He is British(not english) by political affiliation and feels closer to that culture, but he is Irish by geographical location within that culture. In the same way someone is both a Waterford man and an Irish man. I can say I am a european but still an Irishman.

For me, Irish culture is a broad array of things. Music, sport, history, dance, language, quirky humour and a go-getter attitude. Obviously there are always exceptions to the rule.

I'd be with irish_bob on this one re the go-getter attitude part. We're far more so overseas than here. This changed somewhat in the last 15 years though.

irish_bob

Wibbs wrote: »

Huh? It's hardly pandering to suggest the chap left out a large proportion of the population of the north and that may skew his idea of northern Irish and how they may see themselves.


Yea funny I grant you, but again it's the subtleties. He is British(not english) by political affiliation and feels closer to that culture, but he is Irish by geographical location within that culture. In the same way someone is both a Waterford man and an Irish man. I can say I am a european but still an Irishman.
I'd be with irish_bob on this one re the go-getter attitude part. We're far more so overseas than here. This changed somewhat in the last 15 years though.

yeah but the tide has turned again and being ambitous is seen as unrespectable again , your not worthy unless you fall into that cliched of all categorys , the VULNERABLE

Affable

mike65 wrote: »

I was wondering why the OP decided to address this matter by referencing the British, way not just consider Irish social culture on its own merits?

Well just cos I am British and curious how it differs. Never lived there but I must admit that to me Northern Irish DO seem different to Southern, less relaxed, thats as an outsider.

DoireNod

Affable wrote: »

Well just cos I am British and curious how it differs. Never lived there but I must admit that to me Northern Irish DO seem different to Southern, less relaxed, thats as an outsider.

Less relaxed? Have you looked at the unemployment figures for the North?:pac:

Seriously though, that is likely to be a result of the Troubles. People in the South in most of the generations post-1921 have grown up in a Republic largely free of conflict.

dlofnep

Wibbs wrote: »

Huh? It's hardly pandering to suggest the chap left out a large proportion of the population of the north and that may skew his idea of northern Irish and how they may see themselves.

Claiming someone who is Irish, who lives in Ireland, who identifies as being Irish as "Northern Irish" is pandering to Unionists. Not pointing fingers are you - Just in general.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea funny I grant you, but again it's the subtleties. He is British(not english) by political affiliation and feels closer to that culture, but he is Irish by geographical location within that culture. In the same way someone is both a Waterford man and an Irish man. I can say I am a european but still an Irishman.

Ask an Englishman if he is English. Ask a Scottishman if he is Scottish. Ask a Welshman if he is Welsh.

dlofnep

Affable wrote: »

Well just cos I am British and curious how it differs. Never lived there but I must admit that to me Northern Irish DO seem different to Southern, less relaxed, thats as an outsider.

Product of environment?

Affable

dlofnep wrote: »

Claiming someone who is Irish, who lives in Ireland, who identifies as being Irish as "Northern Irish" is pandering to Unionists. Not pointing fingers are you - Just in general.



Ask an Englishman if he is English. Ask a Scottishman if he is Scottish. Ask a Welshman if he is Welsh.

Huh? But he might identify as being N Irish and British. Your post is totally biased and I could say you were pandering to republicans. Your second point just contradicts yourself. If I can feel English/Scottish/Welsh not British then presumably someone can feel Northern Irish not Irish.

dlofnep

Affable wrote: »

Huh? But he might identify as being N Irish and British.

He didn't state he was Northern Irish. He stated he was British.

Affable wrote: »

Your post is totally biased and I could say you were pandering to republicans.

Well given I firmly believe in the re-unification of my country, I'd say you're probably right there. I'm not going to idly standby and see people reject people's claims of being Irish, just because they live in an Orange state.

Affable wrote: »

Your second point just contradicts yourself. If I can feel English/Scottish/Welsh not British then presumably someone can feel Northern Irish not Irish.

Anyone can feel whatever way they want. But he never stated that he felt Northern Irish. He stated that he was British.

DoireNod

Affable wrote: »

Huh? But he might identify as being N Irish and British. Your post is totally biased and I could say you were pandering to republicans. Your second point just contradicts yourself. If I can feel English/Scottish/Welsh not British then presumably someone can feel Northern Irish not Irish.

Some can feel like a Jedi, it doesn't make it so.

I don't think it would be fair to say dlofnep is pandering to Republicans, he's simply making the point that to label someone 'Northern Irish' or 'British' and to actively not recognise their affinity with being Irish comes across as pandering to Unionists.

Affable

DoireNod wrote: »

Some can feel like a Jedi, it doesn't make it so.

I don't think it would be fair to say dlofnep is pandering to Republicans, he's simply making the point that to label someone 'Northern Irish' or 'British' and to actively not recognise their affinity with being Irish comes across as pandering to Unionists.

But who is this 'someone'? Real or hyppthetical? You can't predict whether someone feels Irish and not British. In fact many do feel British not Irish, otherwise there wouldn't have been conflict.

DoireNod

Affable wrote: »

But who is this 'someone'? Real or hyppthetical? You can't predict whether someone feels Irish and not British. In fact many do feel British not Irish, otherwise there wouldn't have been conflict.

I think, with regard to previous posts, dlofnep was referring to Sammy Wilson, unless I'm mistaken?

Of course you can't 'predict' or read the minds of people to discern what their beliefs are and you are quite correct that some people in the North consider themselves British and not Irish. However, you can take into account facts, such as the fact that more people voted for Sinn Féin in the European elections in the North and a large number, perhaps now a majority, of people would probably consider themselves Irish.

Hopefully we can keep this thread on the differences between Irish and British culture on topic and not let it become a fruitless argument about the North - we can keep that to other threads

dlofnep

Aye let's get back on topic - I'm as much to blame as anyone for taking it off topic.

Wibbs

dlofnep wrote: »

Ask an Englishman if he is English. Ask a Scottishman if he is Scottish. Ask a Welshman if he is Welsh.

Actually quite a few right on types among the english I've known will say British, but I take your point.

He didn't state he was Northern Irish. He stated he was British.

In one quote from one unionist politician.

Many unionists by politics, self define themselves as Irish and celtic. Indeed use many of the stereotypical motifs of same. Cuchulainn a good example.The red hand of ulster yet another. Both ancient celtic Irish motifs. There exists a helluva lot of overlap. Some are into Irish dancing and some even speak Irish :eek:. Indeed when the bloke on TG4 went around the country trying to get by with just speaking Irish, one of the few fluent people he found was a northern protestant bloke. In any case genetically the northern part of this country for 1000's of years has been trading and trading genes with scotland. Even their country's name comes from Scotia an ancient name for Ireland.

Well given I firmly believe in the re-unification of my country, I'd say you're probably right there. I'm not going to idly standby and see people reject people's claims of being Irish, just because they live in an Orange state.

And they would feel themselves living in a catholic Irish state and off we go yet again. I would consider those of a unionist background as "Irish" as those who are not. Both have an idea of Irishness, both reference celtic culture, both are born and bred here. they're more "Irish" than irish americans to my mind. The sooner we all acknowledge that on all sides then the sooner you may get your wish of a untied Ireland. Otherwise as I said it'll be here we go again with the same tribal bollox that has held this country back for far too long.

This stuff is far too subtle and far to sensitive to barge in with simple black and white notions. An Irish trait if ever there was one.

LordSutch

Affable wrote: »

How would you describe it and how do you think Irish attitudes differ to British ones?

Virtually identicle in many ways, and yet subtly different too, but then what is the definition of 'British culture'? then depending upon your version of that, we may indeed be identicle, a variation of (or maybe just regionally different)? I'm off for a cuppa while I watch the tennis

mike65

British culture is driving a German car to a Chinese takeway then going home to watch an American tv show on a Japanese branded tv which was made in China.
















Irish culture is exactly the same.

bullpost

I'd say Ireland is probably more parochial and is more community based. Temperamentally I think we are more gregarious and more of a social animal than the British.

DoireNod

bullpost wrote: »

I'd say Ireland is probably more parochial and is more community based. Temperamentally I think we are more gregarious and more of a social animal than the British.

I'd have to agree with this. Things like the parochial involvement with GAA clubs is central to this, no? Gaelic Games are present in Britain and throughout the world, but they are nowhere near as pivotal to communities as they are in Ireland. Britain, on the whole is also much more industrial and urban, whereas Ireland is still made up of many small towns and villages, where the people would be relatively close-knit.

devereaux17

cant really say, uk is a melting pot of people from all over, particulary england, there is no way to compare. the irish are made up of 4. something million distinct individuals, i dont know how to say this but culture is a bit ancient. in a globalised world, i think individual country culture in the western world has come to a halt, its still there and its nice to read and look at but yeah its in the past.

LordSutch

Irish culture includes watching the BBC, Britain's got talent, The Apprentice, (Sir Alan & Dr Bill), supporting British Football teams (ManU), British Rock Bands, embracing the British beer culture, speaking English, owning our own homes, Rugby, drinking copious amounts of tea, British celecelbrety culture, Eastenders, fish & chips, driving on the left, humour, Terry Wogan, Bob Geldof, Hello Magazine, OK too, Tesco, M&S, Top Shop, Harry Hill, Vodafone, scons & cream, afternoon tea, Guinness (a Pint of), sunburn, ice cream, religion, racism, mars bars, horse racing, the bookies, the dogs, Ryanair, Sky News, watching & playing tennis (for two weeks only)

Definately not American, & not European either ................

devereaux17

bullpost wrote: »

I'd say Ireland is probably more parochial and is more community based. Temperamentally I think we are more gregarious and more of a social animal than the British.

what about culture in dublin then? i wouldn't say where i live is community based AT ALL.

DoireNod

devereaux17 wrote: »

what about culture in dublin then? i wouldn't say where i live is community based AT ALL.

Hmm, you are right. Dublin is a completely different kettle of fish!

I only like Dublin when I'm visiting and I don't think I could live there, but that's just because of my dislike for big cities and has nothing to do with the 'culture'...although I'd probably clash violently with the D4 culture!

We could probably de-construct Irish culture to sub-sections of rural Ireland (or culchies? ) and urban Ireland. Bigger cities like Dublin and Belfast tend to have similar trends.

newestUser

bullpost wrote: »

I'd say Ireland is probably more parochial and is more community based. Temperamentally I think we are more gregarious and more of a social animal than the British.

Based on my experiences here in the UK over the last year, this post, although a generalisation, is probably the one I agree with the most on this thread. Irish people are generally more gregarious and outgoing than British, but they're more parochial. People in the UK seem a bit more mobile, in terms of both geography and aspirations.

devereaux17

what do u mean by final sentence?

are you kinda making the point that the british are more about the individual wheareas in (rural) ireland its more about the collective???