Cycling warning on the Examiner front page

Owen

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week end up with only 4% active sperm due to the testes getting micro trauma from the saddle, and also from being heated all the time.

Thoughts?

seamus

Any links?

It's been shown that there is risk to cyclists in terms of damage to the testes and also damage to the sciatica, but these things can be very readily mitigated to the nth degree. 30kms a week would be a normal commute for non-enthusiasts. If you're not wearing the right clothing or sitting correctly or using a decent saddle, then I can see how your balls would be in a jock.

But sure doesn't sitting on a bus or in a car make your testes too warm and lower your sperm count?

Maybe we should all just walk everywhere naked. That'll fix it.

Idleater

PaintDoctor wrote: »

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week...

O_o

Having already cycled 27.4km to work and I have to get home

That story has been doing the rounds for donkey's years, and I thought there was some opposite theory regarding TDF cyclists and what they get up to helping them win stages. Cippolini I believe was an advocate of this theory.

eggie

So if I dont have kids I can put all the money and expense towards a Pinarello Prince with Dura Ace Gruppo and Lightweight wheels...mmm:)

Lumen

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Thoughts?

Nonsense.

Nietzschean

I presume its the study linked to from :
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055606581 just more mis-understood?

seamus

I would also suggest that the study is flawed. They asked the guys to not have sex for 3 days. Sperm are at their most "fertile" 36-48 hours after last having sex. After that time, they start to deteriorate and the quality of sperm released diminishes.

WicklowRacer

PaintDoctor wrote: »

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week end up with only 4% active sperm due to the testes getting micro trauma from the saddle, and also from being heated all the time.

Thoughts?

The original article that I read linked from the Guardian cycling pages stated *300kms* not 30km !... and also qualified it as "systematic" - ie. 300kms per week every week.

flickerx

i had a testicular cyst removed a few years back, removed late 2005, discovered it early 2002, which the specialist said was probably the result of excess cycling with a crap saddle and a badly fitting bike, this was in the years before I became a true cycling nerd. my epidydmis knotted in a hard lump of scar-like tissue, and would have been alright, if it stayed small, but eventually grew slowly to the size of about 50-60% of a testicle, and was causing me a lot of discomfort and pain, especially on cold days, when my 'sac' would shrink and there simply wasnt enough room in there for 2.6 testicles to be accomodated.

i dont know if its caused any drop in my sperm count.

so if you've any numbness or pain down there after a cycle, go and get it checked out, and make sure you get a new saddle or ask someone in a bike shop about positioning etc to stop it happening. i'm sure some joker will jump in here with the inevitable response to this, but seriously for the regular cycling guys - give your balls a manual check every month or two, make sure there's no lumps or hard knots around the edges or back. i was pretty wrecked after the surgery and couldnt cycle for months.

christ that took ages to type one handed. no i'm not checking my balls with the other hand, smart asses, my arm is in a sling.

Blazer

Hopefully it's true.

The less cyclists on the road the better

only kidding guys...I remember Suzuki bringing out a roadbike about 10 years ago.
It was nicknamed the Nutroaster due to it's dual exhausts being under the seat and causing warm asses etc to the rider
Same warnings were about that a well.

tomasrojo

WicklowRacer wrote: »

The original article that I read linked from the Guardian cycling pages stated *300kms* not 30km !... and also qualified it as "systematic" - ie. 300kms per week every week.

That sounds more like it. It's professional cyclists and keen cross-country cyclists who _may_ suffer this. Cycling 30km a day is nothing to worry about whatsoever.

So they lead with a typo on the front page? That's very unprofessional.

Nietzschean

tomasrojo wrote: »

So they lead with a typo on the front page? That's very unprofessional.

Better sales/circulation?, can print a correction in the middle of the paper tomorrow

tomasrojo

Also, long-distance driving is strongly associated with poor sperm count. Apparently due to your lads nestling warmly in your lap for hours on end. This isn't as well known, for some reason.

fixieboy

great....another excuse for people to shy away from using their bikes...too much running can give you a heart attack, rowing can do in your back..i'd take good cardiovascular health over a 100% normal sperm count any day.

tunney

PaintDoctor wrote: »

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week end up with only 4% active sperm due to the testes getting micro trauma from the saddle, and also from being heated all the time.

Thoughts?

Thoughts - Quote correctly for starters, its elite level triathletes in the study and was 300+ km a week. (Study was done on tirahletes who tend to sit more on the nose of the saddle so slightly different).

**I see this ahas already been corrected.

I've done alot of 300km + weeks this year. I'd have to say I'm not surprised at the study. despite good shorts and chamois cream my knackers end up red raw and sore after two back to back weeks and they are barely up for any action anyways

TinyExplosions

eggie wrote: »

So if I dont have kids I can put all the money and expense towards a Pinarello Prince with Dura Ace Gruppo and Lightweight wheels...mmm:)

Don't do it!!! A Pinarello is crying out for Campag 11spd!

flickerx wrote: »

i had a testicular cyst removed a few years back, removed late 2005, discovered it early 2002, which the specialist said was probably the result of excess cycling with a crap saddle and a badly fitting bike, this was in the years before I became a true cycling nerd. my epidydmis knotted in a hard lump of scar-like tissue, and would have been alright, if it stayed small, but eventually grew slowly to the size of about 50-60% of a testicle, and was causing me a lot of discomfort and pain, especially on cold days, when my 'sac' would shrink and there simply wasnt enough room in there for 2.6 testicles to be accomodated.

You had any re-occurrence since the op? I was told by a urologist that there's a fair chance that cycsts can regrow, which is why they only operate if it's painful or the patient insists (spoiler tags for the tmi bit) -

that's why I just live with mine -more 2.3 than 2.6 balls though!

rubadub

seamus wrote: »

I would also suggest that the study is flawed.

Most are. Did they test another group of non-cyclists with the exact same procedure. The 4% is a shock figure but the non cyclists could be 5%. I have no idea what is normal.

It is like that crap "men think about sex every 5 seconds", oh how shocking, the dirty horndogs, they never mention the women in these studies, I think in one they did and it was women think of sex every 7 seconds or very close to what the men did.

EDIT: I see it now.

All of the men - who had been training for an average of nine times a week for eight years - had less than 10% of normal looking sperm, compared with the 15-20% seen in the most fertile men.

Wouldn't worry me so, still doesn't quote what the average man is.

Captain Havoc

Cyclists don't make good swimmers, it's been around for years.

lukester

TinyExplosions wrote: »

You had any re-occurrence since the op? I was told by a urologist that there's a fair chance that cycsts can regrow, which is why they only operate if it's painful or the patient insists (spoiler tags for the tmi bit) -

that's why I just live with mine -more 2.3 than 2.6 balls though!

With the usual provisos about medical advice on d'internet, how do you determine it's only a cyst and not something more sinister?

TinyExplosions

lukester wrote: »

With the usual provisos about medical advice on d'internet, how do you determine it's only a cyst and not something more sinister?

A good urologist!

lukester

TinyExplosions wrote: »

A good urologist!

D'oh!

TinyExplosions

lukester wrote: »

D'oh!

As much as I like t'internets for medical advice, I find that like 'House', it's always Lupus, so prefer to consult a licensed medical professional in person!

lukester

TinyExplosions wrote: »

As much as I like t'internets for medical advice, I find that like 'House', it's always Lupus, so prefer to consult a licensed medical professional in person!

Indeed, and t'internets is not renowned for its bedside manner :pac:

TinyExplosions

lukester wrote: »

Indeed, and t'internets is not renowned for its bedside manner :pac:

Much like doctor house....

Hmm, if the internet's House, what's Cameron

keenan110

Its on the front page of the Health supplement in the Irish Times today too!

lukester

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Much like doctor house....

Hmm, if the internet's House, what's Cameron

I'm drowning in a sea of half-understood TV-show references, and have no lifejacket.

Erm, Larry David! Saxondale!

TinyExplosions

lukester wrote: »

I'm drowning in a sea of half-understood TV-show references, and have no lifejacket.

Erm, Larry David! Saxondale!

^Cameron.... *swoon*

lukester

TinyExplosions wrote: »

*swoon*

There's an open net and a ball on the penalty spot, with a pun about extra testicles and foxy docs taped to it.

Takers?

unionman

I have three kids. I'm taking steps to ensure that I have no more. As I am not an elite cyclist I'll just have to make do with the more traditional surgical procedure. *cough*

+1 what flickerx says - check regularly, I know too many people who have had testicular cancer.

After a long cycle my engine room resembles two very diminutive olives. It wouldn't fill you with confidence on the reproduction front.:cool:

BIKE75

PaintDoctor wrote: »

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week end up with only 4% active sperm due to the testes getting micro trauma from the saddle, and also from being heated all the time.

Thoughts?

AS THE AD SAYS

IT ONLY TAKES ONE

tomc

PaintDoctor wrote: »

They're claiming cyclists who cycle 30kms a week end up with only 4% active sperm due to the testes getting micro trauma from the saddle, and also from being heated all the time.

Thoughts?

.........excellent only a few more miles and then I dont need to go for the snip.:D

Conor20

Was there any mention to whether this was a permanent thing? That seems to be an important point.

Eg. If it was due to, say, improper temperature control due to the saddle, then once these damaged sperm had passed through the system, would the count go back up provided the new supply wasn't exposed to the same cycling trauma?

Or is the system itself being damaged, according to the study?

Conor.

thebouldwhacker

Last week cycling was bad due to bone density, now it causes infertility... wtf? Is cycling going to be the next generations smoking? Will there be quit cycling support groups and some kind of patch one will have to wear?

flickerx

lukester wrote: »

With the usual provisos about medical advice on d'internet, how do you determine it's only a cyst and not something more sinister?

i had to go and get an ultrasound done to determine the makeup of the lump i.e. to find out if it was cancerous or not. that was a nerve destroying few weeks waiting to get the ultrasound done.

flickerx

TinyExplosions wrote: »

You had any re-occurrence since the op? I was told by a urologist that there's a fair chance that cycsts can regrow, which is why they only operate if it's painful or the patient insists

yeah they had said initially it was best to just leave it alone, but over the course of a few years it had grown larger, and as i mentioned it was becoming pretty painful in the cold, whenever i went swimming, and so on.

i check myself regularly, and there is some extra scar tissue around where they cut the cyst out, but its been ok so far, no noticeable lumps. i do find though that my right testicle where the cyst was is way, way more sensitive than before to the occasional knock. some of that is possibly psychological.

i'll probably go to a mens clinic some time soon and just ask for a referral for another ultrasound because i could do with a checkup.

TinyExplosions

flickerx wrote: »

i had to go and get an ultrasound done to determine the makeup of the lump i.e. to find out if it was cancerous or not. that was a nerve destroying few weeks waiting to get the ultrasound done.

Weeks? That's surprising... I had a similar lump on my neck (was a cyst too), and they had me in for ultrasound and MRI's galore in a week!

flickerx

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Weeks? That's surprising... I had a similar lump on my neck (was a cyst too), and they had me in for ultrasound and MRI's galore in a week!

i wasnt living in ireland at the time i discovered it in 2002, so it took a bit more time sorting things out for a hospital appointment.

if people are worried about low sperm count, there's an article on the BBC site today about how to keep the count good and healthy.

Captain Havoc

flickerx wrote: »

if people are worried about low sperm count, there's an article on the BBC site today about how to keep the count good and healthy.

Bit of a catch 22, if you have sex everyday you'll be shattered for cycling.

Chips Lovell

jerseyeire wrote: »

Bit of a catch 22, if you have sex everyday you'll be shattered for cycling.

I think you need to work on your fitness.

Remember James Hunt's famous slogan: "Sex: The Breakfast of Champions".

flickerx

jerseyeire wrote: »

Bit of a catch 22, if you have sex everyday you'll be shattered for cycling.

well, if it came down to choosing just one or the other, i know which one i'd pick.

(cycling)

faceman

Quite surprised this article came as news to people. Back when I was cycling to college 10 years ago they media ran these stories.

flickerx wrote: »

i had a testicular cyst removed a few years back, removed late 2005, discovered it early 2002, which the specialist said was probably the result of excess cycling with a crap saddle and a badly fitting bike,

Oh dear, the doctors never gave me that explanation, i used to cycle alot. 2+2 comes to mind...

Jumpy

jerseyeire wrote: »

Cyclists don't make good swimmers, it's been around for years.

Its illegal under the Euro rules anyway.

Captain Havoc

Jumpy wrote: »

Its illegal under the Euro rules anyway.

I wasn't referring to the sport

Jumpy

I know

torturedsoul

I know its been a while since this topic was spoken about but I myself am beginning to get concerned. Here is my experience on it.

I am 33 and always had a very healthy quantity of sperm. I have taken up cycling now approximately 3 months. I have always been quite fit hence I excelled on the bike quite quickly.

Over the last month (due to unemployment) I am clocking up approximately 250Km - 300Km a week. I generally spend 2 1/2 hours to 3 hours on the bike every session. In 10 days I would cycle for 7 out of those ten.

I have noticed a dramatic change in my sperm count and (forgive the description) ejaculation performance. I am now getting worried about it and I am afraid to go back on my bike (which I am missing so bad). My sperm quantity has decreased by more the half. I am going to the doctor Monday but I would be interested to see what some of the more experienced riders on here think.

I have an entry level Giant defy3 and the saddle is giving me a pain in the arse. I am aware its only a introductory bike, but could it have this sort of affect so soon? I am also wearing bib tights and shorts on top (maybe a bad idea on retrospect). I do notice numbness in my right foot, this gets relieved when I loosen my shoes.

Have ye any tips on the best type of saddle, position and angle. Should I be worried

Sr. Assumpta

torturedsoul wrote: »

I have noticed a dramatic change in my sperm count

Did you get them to fill out a census form? or have you been counting them yourself????

chakattack

Changes in quantity etc. could be related to lots of things so I wouldn't get too worried if it's short term.

The saddle that came with your giant is more than likely a pile of crap and it's worth investing in a good saddle if you're on the bike alot. If you come home feeling numb after a long cycle you need to change your saddle, saddle setup or both.

The problem is finding one and setting it up correctly:

Some good brands to look at:

Fizik
Selle Italia
Prologo
Specialized

Some of the bigger shops have try before you buy schemes which are very good to get a feel for what works for you. Some saddles are flat, some are curved, some have cutouts to relieve pressure. Less padding is often better especially if your fit enough for 300k/week.

Most saddles should be setup perfectly level and there is a sweet spot you should be sitting on (moving the saddle forward or back until it's in the right place - not too far as this affects your reach and pedal dynamics). Make sure you're not always sitting on the nose of the saddle. Make sure it is not pointing up or down dramatically - use a window ledge or similar as a guide if you don't have a spirit level.

Is your saddle too high? As a rough guide - your knee should be slightly bent at bottom of pedal stroke and straight if you do the same with your heel on the pedal.

I'd recommend getting a bike fit done and changing to a better saddle.

Only wear one pair of shorts/tights (good quality?) and use chamois cream.

petethedrummer

torturedsoul wrote: »

I am also wearing bib tights and shorts on top (maybe a bad idea on retrospect).

Bad idea. Most shorts have a seam that runs right up under your gentleman vegetables. They will also move about more and gather in the wrong area. You could get cycling specific baggy shorts which have the seam moved to the sides but really just ditch the overshorts. Let a bit of fresh air in.

Alias G

I got one of those selle smp saddles and have found it much more comfortable on the .... um ... undercarriage.

torturedsoul

cheers lads, thanks for the advice.

And chakattack, I am actually cycling on the nose most of the time alright. That could do damage considering the amount of time im spending on the bike. Where is the proper position, centre or at the back of the saddle?

Out of the saddle recommendations, do you go for one cut out in the middle? What about the brooks saddles?

Ironic thing is I haven't felt happier and better since I started cycling so I don't want to stop but I am worried I will do myself damage by having a bad technique.

Cheers for the help.

Moreofthatjazz

when we were kids a mate of mine dinged his dongs off the top tube in an illconcieved effort at a dirtjump, needless to say one of the nether regions did nay like this and ran for cover up inside his pelvis and refused to come out to play for many a year, which necessitated a helping scalpel in the end... its something that springs to mind every time a cleat pops and rather a ignominious dumping occurs... as regards checking for lumps i think Eddie Izzard puts it best " its hard to find a lump in what is essentially a bag of lumps" none the less it has to be done...