Your AI Team

Size=everything

So with a few to looking towards the future and RWC '11 this is the team I would start for the AIs

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Buckley (unfortunately)
4.POC
5.Toner
6.Ferris
7.Jennings
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan (TOL injured)
10.Sexton
11.Fitzgerald
12.McFadden
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

I think McFadden's played 12 before so he gets the nod over Earls. Jennings to replace Wallace as Wallace won't be around for the next WC. Sexton to replace ROG as ROG is a shadow of his former self and probably won't be around for WC either. Healy instead of Horan. I put Best ahead of Flannery because Best is young and will be around longer than Flannery and its marginal anyway, Toner for DOC for similar reasons(though he is not as good as DOC he has the potential to be). Buckley for Hayes because Hayes won't be around.

A bench including players such as : Earls, Ronan, Felix Jones, Pollock etc.

davyjose

Are you telling me Gordon d'Arcy is your 3rd choice at 12?????

chupacabra

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darce
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin (Assuming Fla is still injured)
17. Buckley
18. D. Ryan
19. Jennings
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Keith Earls

Size=everything

davyjose wrote: »

Are you telling me Gordon d'Arcy is your 3rd choice at 12?????

Firstly we need serious cover at 12 and secondly I can't see D'arcy remaining ahead of players such as Earls and McFadden in two years time for the WC better to give them a chance now.

davyjose

Size=everything wrote: »

Firstly we need serious cover at 12 and secondly I can't see D'arcy remaining ahead of players such as Earls and McFadden in two years time for the WC better to give them a chance now.

I'd have to disagree with you there. Darce missed almost a year of Rugby, and coming back to full strength after that long out takes time, but I've seen nothing to suggest he won't.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think after the WC is the time to rebuild - not before it.

Size=everything

davyjose wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you there. Darce missed almost a year of Rugby, and coming back to full strength after that long out takes time, but I've seen nothing to suggest he won't.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think after the WC is the time to rebuild - not before it.

I see where your coming from but I think its a risk to hope D'arcy at 33, will still be playing at his usual standard by 2011. Were not rebuilding its more giving players with prospect a chance to settle in the Irish team over older players in the likely event they have declined with age, injury or whatever by 2011 or indeed retired.

davyjose

Size=everything wrote: »

I see where your coming from but I think its a risk to hope D'arcy at 33, will still be playing at his usual standard by 2011. Were not rebuilding its more giving players with prospect a chance to settle in the Irish team over older players in the likely event they have declined with age, injury or whatever by 2011 or indeed retired.

D'arcy's only 29. Younger than BOD

Size=everything

davyjose wrote: »

D'arcy's only 29. Younger than BOD

Apologies for some reason I thought he was 31! Point still stands of needing cover at 12 though.

subfreq

I know everyone is going to think I am mad so who cares I may as well say it. I think Sexton gets his chance obviously this Autumn but I think that Declan should follow the Aussie/NZ model of finding a place for your most talented players even if their most natural position isn't free.

I would like to see McFadden get a start somewhere in the back line and if that means at flyhalf then so be it. He can place kick, kick out of hand, pass excellently and most importantly has wonderfully deceptive pace and running.

The Aussies took Giteau and even though he was an inside centre moulded him into a fly half.

You have to find a place for the top talent and from the younger crop McFadden looks to be head and shoulders ahead of the rest in terms of all round raw talent. Ireland have the luxury of a two year lead time until the WC so I think it's worth a go.

ScrubsfanChris

Isn't there already a thread for this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055599982&highlight=autumn+internationals

DonkeyPokerTour

Ok lets over react to everything

1. Healy. Greatest prop in the world, best scrumager, best in loose and can do 100m in 5 sec
2. Cronin. Best is bald so cant make the starting line up
3. Buckley. The Beast, best scrumager in the world. Hayes misses out for same reason as Best
4. Toner. Every team needs a sky scraper
5. Caldwell. POC was terrible as a lions captain, therefore he is a useless player and must be droped from the Irish & Munster teams immediately
6. O'Brien. Ferris is over rated and no good in the loose.
7. Pollock. Greatest 7 EVER!
8. Leamy. Heaslip and his nancy pancy side step, give me a man who will run straight
9. Boss. Too cool of a name not to have in the team
10. Staunton. O'Gara was never any good anyway, great in the tackle but his tactical and place kicking are rubbish.
11. Dowling. Now there's a man who can defend, not like that nancy pancy Fitzgerald with his spikey hair and side steps.
12. Wallace. David I mean not paddy
13. Horgan. Always thought he was the best 13 in the world.
14. Carr. A bit slow for a winger but we'll give him a go
15. Dempsey. Solid as a rock and wont drop the ball like kearney does every second.

Best Team Ever!

Lads, are you seriously calling for wholesale changes to a side that won the 6nations. Yes there needs to be changes but they need to be gradual or you'll upset the balance of the team. Take the front row for the 6 nations of Horan, Flannery, Hayes. These 3 all need to be replaced by the next world cup (maybe not Flannery but thats a tough call). The most pressing need is to replace Hayes so we start with Hayes on the bench and Your choice of Ross/Buckley/Court as the starter for the first game and see how things go. Then for the game against fiji put Healy in, in place of Horan and leave Ross/Buckley/Court on the other side, with either Horan or Hayes on the bench. Then for the 3rd and final match vs South Africa you can choose which ever is the form Loose Head, and the form Tight Head from the two games.

Our next most pressing need is at 7, where Wallace moves to the bench (can cover all 3 back row positions) and your choice of jennings/obrien/pollock comes in to play most of the 3 games.

The back line needs no changes to it as all of them will be around for the next world cup (possibly not stringer but certainly the other 60.

Then we work on the subs bench, the Prop area has been addressed, Hooker is Best, 2nd Row is your choice of Caldwell, Cullen (little old perhaps), Toner, Ryan. Backrow is Wallace (at least for the AI's). Backline is Scrumhalf (could be Redden, Stringer, O'Leary, Boss or O'Donohue etc all depends on TOL fitness), Outhalf is Sexton and then Utility back is Earls. I'd like to see sexton get 20min vs Australia and South Africa and 40min vs Fiji.

If we make wholesale changes we risk loosing against South Africa and Australia by a cricket score and maybe even loosing to Fiji. That will do no good for the confidence of the new younger players. Slowly Does It.

Regards
Ian

Podge_irl

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Lads, are you seriously calling for wholesale changes to a side that won the 6nations. Yes there needs to be changes but they need to be gradual or you'll upset the balance of the team. Take the front row for the 6 nations of Horan, Flannery, Hayes. These 3 all need to be replaced by the next world cup (maybe not Flannery but thats a tough call). The most pressing need is to replace Hayes so we start with Hayes on the bench and Your choice of Ross/Buckley/Court as the starter for the first game and see how things go. Then for the game against fiji put Healy in, in place of Horan and leave Ross/Buckley/Court on the other side, with either Horan or Hayes on the bench. Then for the 3rd and final match vs South Africa you can choose which ever is the form Loose Head, and the form Tight Head from the two games.

Our next most pressing need is at 7, where Wallace moves to the bench (can cover all 3 back row positions) and your choice of jennings/obrien/pollock comes in to play most of the 3 games.

The back line needs no changes to it as all of them will be around for the next world cup (possibly not stringer but certainly the other 60.

Then we work on the subs bench, the Prop area has been addressed, Hooker is Best, 2nd Row is your choice of Caldwell, Cullen (little old perhaps), Toner, Ryan. Backrow is Wallace (at least for the AI's). Backline is Scrumhalf (could be Redden, Stringer, O'Leary, Boss or O'Donohue etc all depends on TOL fitness), Outhalf is Sexton and then Utility back is Earls. I'd like to see sexton get 20min vs Australia and South Africa and 40min vs Fiji.

If we make wholesale changes we risk loosing against South Africa and Australia by a cricket score and maybe even loosing to Fiji. That will do no good for the confidence of the new younger players. Slowly Does It.

Regards
Ian

Hold on a second, I'm not in favour of wholesale changes by any means, but just because players will be around for the next world cup does not mean they should be guaranteed their position. Currently Healy would seem to be the best loosehead in Ireland, and if he continues his form then he will deserve to start the AIs. That he is so young is merely an added bonus. It could equally be argued that Sexton is currently playing better than ROG.

You need to reward form as well as planning for the future.

d'Oracle

I see Luke in the centre by then.

He is getting BIG.

Also Whats that Aussie Prop up in ulster called?
The guy who plays for us?

thomond2006

I don't care if other players are better, John Hayes better reach 100 caps.

Podge_irl

d'Oracle wrote: »

I see Luke in the centre by then.

He is getting BIG.

Also Whats that Aussie Prop up in ulster called?
The guy who plays for us?

The whole Luke in the centre thing didn't work out so well last time. He seems better off on the wing.

And that's Court. Decent bench option, not sure he'll ever start regularly though.

chupacabra

chupacabra wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darce
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin (Assuming Fla is still injured)
17. Buckley
18. D. Ryan
19. Jennings
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Keith Earls

I dont think even stringer would be able to substitute himself for himself.

Amazotheamazing

It's impossible to tell at this remove.

Flannery came from nowhere to being the starting hooker for the Irish team, I think Cronin could do likewise. Some players will get chances and some players will get knocks.

hardCopy

I'd like to see Bowe get a run at 13. The way he played in the Lions warm up games he did serious damage stepping in to midfield and offloading to other players.

Maybe with 60 minutes gone we take off BOD or Darce, move Tommy to 13 and put Earls on the wing.

I'd obviously like to see Earls get a run at full back as well but it's hard to get a good look at anyone if you start making loads of changes with 10/15 to go.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

The whole Luke in the centre thing didn't work out so well last time. He seems better off on the wing.

And that's Court. Decent bench option, not sure he'll ever start regularly though.

I thought he was quality against New Zealand.

Ehm, given the mix of development and winningness we'll want:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross?

4. Toner
5. O'Connell

6. Ferris
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton/Keatley

11. Fitzgerald
12.
a) D'Arcy/Wallace against the good teams
b) Whitten/McFadden/Sexton/whoever
13.
a) guess
b) McFadden/Earls/Cave
14. Bowe/Shaggy (one of 'em on the bench would be one hell of an impact sub)

15. Kearney/Jones/Carr

16. Cronin
17. I won't type his name. I refuse to. ><
18. Donncha, not sure which one though. Ryan or O'Callaghnan. Or maybe Caldwell instead actually.
19. Leamy or O'Brien. I'd say O'Brien but I'm a Leinster fan
20. Reddan or POD
21. ROG/Paddy Wallace/Ian Humphreys
22. Depends on whose starting. Maybe Geordan Murphy would offer most options.

bigbadben

chupacabra wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. DOC
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip

9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Fitzgerald
12. Darce
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin (Assuming Fla is still injured)
17. Buckley
18. D. Ryan
19. Jennings
20. Stringer
21. Sexton
22. Keith Earls

Am I the only person who's watched Mike Ross and thought "how is he a professional rugby player".

If he gets 10 Irish caps I'll eat my arms and legs

[Jackass]

1. Healy
2. Flannery (best if fla is injured)
3. Ross
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. O'Leary
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Ross was superb in GP and made team of the season. Hayes has about a season left in him and we must now use AI's to find a legitimate replacement. If he scrums well and has good work rate he will overtake Hayes for 6 nations.

Healy is the best 1. in Ireland, straight forward selection.

Rest of pack is solid enough and can continue to grow as a unit.

Sexton needs starts at 10 and is a genuine contender to take over the jersey for 6 nations. Deserves his shot in AI's.

Rest of backline is solid and can continue to get game time together.

Players who will bench and must get games:
Cronin: Develop for future and deserves oppertunity to offer alternative at 2.
Toner: Has made massive progress as a superb lineout operator and good around the park. Break him in as alternative.
Caldwell: Same as above
Ryan: Versatile in second row and back row, cap for development and depth of squad.
O'Brien: Need alternative at 7, give the man a start, shoe in for Irish back row regular over next couple of seasons.
McFadden: Back up for BO'D needed and adds depth to squad and another dynamic to the bench with his goal kicking ability.
Earls: Needs to find a place in team and star of the future without doubt. Continue to give game time and let him take his chances.
Jones: Superb player, option at FB or wing.

chupacabra

[Jackass] wrote: »

Healy is the best 1. in Ireland, straight forward selection.

Isnt that a beautiful thing to be able to say about a 21 year old lad who isnt even half way through his development as a prop forward yet, an absolute star of the future.

andyman

15. Rob KEARNEY
14. Tommy BOWE
13. Brian O'DRISCOLL
12. Gordon D'ARCY
11. Luke FITZGERALD
10. Ronan O'GARA
9. Eoin REDDAN (assuming O'Leary is injured is injured)
1. Cian HEALY
2. Rory BEST (assuming Flannery is injured)
3. Mike ROSS
4. Paul O'CONNELL
5. Donnacha O'CALLAGHAN
6. Stephen FERRIS
7. David WALLACE
8. Jamie HEASLIP

Riskymove

andyman wrote: »

15. Rob KEARNEY
14. Tommy BOWE
13. Brian O'DRISCOLL
12. Gordon D'ARCY
11. Luke FITZGERALD
10. Ronan O'GARA
9. Eoin REDDAN (assuming O'Leary is injured is injured)
1. Cian HEALY
2. Rory BEST (assuming Flannery is injured)
3. Mike ROSS
4. Paul O'CONNELL
5. Donnacha O'CALLAGHAN
6. Stephen FERRIS
7. David WALLACE
8. Jamie HEASLIP

I don't know if I'd put a completely new front row in against the Boks, a big ask

perhaps in the Fiji game but I'd expect Horan and/or the Bull to play in the first game with Healy as replacement

LeeroyJones

andyman wrote: »

15. Rob KEARNEY
14. Tommy BOWE
13. Brian O'DRISCOLL
12. Gordon D'ARCY
11. Luke FITZGERALD
10. Ronan O'GARA
9. Eoin REDDAN (assuming O'Leary is injured is injured)
1. Cian HEALY
2. Rory BEST (assuming Flannery is injured)
3. Mike ROSS
4. Paul O'CONNELL
5. Donnacha O'CALLAGHAN
6. Stephen FERRIS
7. David WALLACE
8. Jamie HEASLIP

While I agree that is close(ish) to the strongest 15 available right now, I don't see the point in playing all these players again and again. If we are challenging for the World Cup we will need 30 players who have all have experience of playing top opposition on a big stage.

Under EOS we had a about 17/18 players who had a chance of the starting 15, about 25 players who had a chance of making the matchday 22 and the rest were there to, as it seemed, to make up the numbers. As a result we were left wanting, no plan B and were eliminated after 2 victories against Georgia and Namibia. We must learn from this.

We need 30 players who have experience against southern hemisphere teams and thats what these autumn internationals offer. The likes of Sexton, McFadden, J Murphy, Toner, Jennings(must be the most talented player aged 27 with only 2 caps to his name!), Cronin etc need game time at this level.

premierstone

Id definitely agree about Cian Healy to me its not even debatable he will be Irelands first choice prop.

But Mike Ross is no where near the standard required and tbh I dont care if he made the GP team of the year, that fact just highlights the sh*te that is the GP tbh. The options arent great though as there are serious questions about Buckley aswell and the Bull is nearly as old as some of the coaches :eek:

siltirocker

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ehm, given the mix of development and winningness we'll want:

10. Sexton/Keatley

Am i the only person, who witnessed him make a fool of Sexton and destroy Rocky last season? Taking it as it was a Connacht game, probably.

Can't wait for someone, who didn't see the game to disagree with me!:D:P

Sexton can be amazing, honestly brilliant but compare Sexton at Keatley's age to Keatley now, there is no contest. Keatley''s only problems is he can lack confidence, but hey, that happens when you play for Connacht anyway.

Podge_irl

siltirocker wrote: »

Sexton can be amazing, honestly brilliant but compare Sexton at Keatley's age to Keatley now, there is no contest. Keatley''s only problems is he can lack confidence, but hey, that happens when you play for Connacht anyway.

Compare Keatley now to Sexton now and its also no contest...

LeeroyJones

siltirocker wrote: »

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ehm, given the mix of development and winningness we'll want:

10. Sexton/Keatley

Am i the only person, who witnessed him make a fool of Sexton and destroy Rocky last season? Taking it as it was a Connacht game, probably.

Can't wait for someone, who didn't see the game to disagree with me!:D:P

Sexton can be amazing, honestly brilliant but compare Sexton at Keatley's age to Keatley now, there is no contest. Keatley''s only problems is he can lack confidence, but hey, that happens when you play for Connacht anyway.

John O'Shea once nutmegged Figo at the Bernabeu....

one performance does not make a player. Sexton, fair enough, also hasn't had many performances but he has played Munster 4 times and has won 3 and in his last 3 Leinster performances he has outplayed 2 Lions Fly-Halves and an English international fly-half

siltirocker

Podge_irl wrote: »

Compare Keatley now to Sexton now and its also no contest...

Dude, 90% of this forum thought Sexton was a load of sh1te not long ago, that needed to be shipped off before Easter. So i am refusing to buy into this Sexton is the new God believe(, , yet). Give me 1 good season and i might change my mind about that, not just a well performed May.

And, , , , i completely disagree with that statment. Don't be ridiculious. As a man who went to at least a half dozen of each teams home games last season.(Half my time in Galway/half in Dublin). Ian Keatley impressed me a whole lot more. Granted i couldn't get to Croker or HC final, but if i did i might be singing the praises to the extent that most people are.

siltirocker

LeeroyJones wrote: »

siltirocker wrote: »

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ehm, given the mix of development and winningness we'll want:

10. Sexton/Keatley



John O'Shea once nutmegged Figo at the Bernabeu....

one performance does not make a player. Sexton, fair enough, also hasn't had many performances but he has played Munster 4 times and has won 3 and in his last 3 Leinster performances he has outplayed 2 Lions Fly-Halves and an English international fly-half

Is this the John O'Shea that is the first choice fullback for Champion's League finalists and Prem. League winning Man U.

"in his last 3 Leinster performances he has outplayed 2 Lions Fly-Halves and an English international fly-half." - And that's not true.BS actually.

Also "1 performance", you're ignorant judgement of the player isn't warranted.

Podge_irl

siltirocker wrote: »

Dude, 90% of this forum thought Sexton was a load of sh1te not long ago, that needed to be shipped off before Easter.

I wasn't one of them.

I fail to see how I'm being ridiculous. I think Keatley is a good player, but Sexton guided his team through a HEC semi and final (not to mention contributing hugely to Ireland A's demolition of the Saxons).

siltirocker

Podge_irl wrote: »

I wasn't one of them.

I fail to see how I'm being ridiculous. I think Keatley is a good player, but Sexton guided his team through a HEC semi and final (not to mention contributing hugely to Ireland A's demolition of the Saxons).

That's fair enough Podge, it really is, you have a great point, which i hinted at myself earlier. But the ridiculous comment was on behalf of your comment saying there is no contest between the two of them, i can not agree with that at all man.

LeeroyJones

siltirocker wrote: »

LeeroyJones wrote: »

siltirocker wrote: »

Is this the John O'Shea that is the first choice fullback for Champion's League finalists and Prem. League winning Man U.

"in his last 3 Leinster performances he has outplayed 2 Lions Fly-Halves and an English international fly-half." - And that's not true.BS actually.

Also "1 performance", you're ignorant judgement of the player isn't warranted.

I'm not getting into a football debate, but JOS is not the 2nd best full back in Europe/best full-back in the prem!!! (a level which people were saying he would be back when he nutmegged Figo...) my point being; many, in particular Connacht fans, are saying Keatley is a better option than Sexton he has being solid-nothing more, but yes he has raised his game against Munster and Leinster. however Sexton is a better player, he has had a good 2007/8 season followed by a good churchill cup showing, an injury plagued 2008/9 season but has come through it with a fine May and again did well when called upon in the Churchill Cup. He's no top international yet but he's on the right road.

And yes in Leinster's last 3 games he has played better than his oppostite number. you cannot say that ROG, Stephen Jones or Vesty outplayed Sexton in the H Cup semi, Magners League or H Cup final respectively.

siltirocker

LeeroyJones wrote: »

siltirocker wrote: »

LeeroyJones wrote: »

And yes in Leinster's last 3 games he has played better than his oppostite number. you cannot say that ROG, Stephen Jones or Vesty outplayed Sexton in the H Cup semi, Magners League or H Cup final respectively.

I apologise i forgot he didn't play Dragons and that Vesty has been capped. Sorry got my facts mixed up.:o

Look, i too believe Sexton is a better player, but he about to turn 25, Keatley is just gone 22 and just completed his first pro-season(in which he got capped at international level, albeit w/no Lions or Leinster). And the way he is playing compared to Sexton in his 1st season. I just don't think Sexton at RWC '11 is as set in stone, as everyone belives.

And most who witness both play regularly tend to agree. Like Kelly and Farelly. Ward did, but he has gone Sexton OVERLOAD since May!:pac:

smurphy29

Come on guys, there's a huge difference in a few Magners matches and doing the business at the sharp end of the Heineken Cup. Sexton did the business under huge pressure in the semi-final and final - that's as close to test rugby as it's possible to get. Clearly, he's the next in line to play out-half for Ireland. The November series is the perfect opportunity to give him some game time - assuming he can bring his May form into the new season.

If Keatley can continue his progress then all to the good - perhaps we'll have two good out-halves to compete for the shirt in 2011 and beyond.

On the broader topic of the AI matches, there are three games, so there should be every opportunity to look at a few new(ish) players. It's important not to blood them all at once, but any returning Lions (esp. those around 30yrs+) should be rotated, with the likes of Jennings, Ross, Healy, Toner, McFadden, O'Brien, Jones and, of course, Sexton given the chance to come in to the side. But they need to be getting the game time with their provinces, and showing the required form, to get the call. There's a while to go yet.

LeeroyJones

smurphy29 wrote: »

Come on guys, there's a huge difference in a few Magners matches and doing the business at the sharp end of the Heineken Cup. Sexton did the business under huge pressure in the semi-final and final - that's as close to test rugby as it's possible to get. Clearly, he's the next in line to play out-half for Ireland. The November series is the perfect opportunity to give him some game time - assuming he can bring his May form into the new season.

If Keatley can continue his progress then all to the good - perhaps we'll have two good out-halves to compete for the shirt in 2011 and beyond.

On the broader topic of the AI matches, there are three games, so there should be every opportunity to look at a few new(ish) players. It's important not to blood them all at once, but any returning Lions (esp. those around 30yrs+) should be rotated, with the likes of Jennings, Ross, Healy, Toner, McFadden, O'Brien, Jones and, of course, Sexton given the chance to come in to the side. But they need to be getting the game time with their provinces, and showing the required form, to get the call. There's a while to go yet.

Agreed. My main concern is for McFadden, while he will certainly get a few games hopefully for Leinster this season it is hard to see him getting a decent run in the team with BOD and D'arcy around. Cheika won't be concerned about the development of Irish players and nor should he be as a coach of a professional set-up. Hopefully O'Brien can go and fill the 6 void left by Rocky.

Final point on Sexton, he is 23 going 24 and not 25 as previously mentioned!

smurphy29

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Agreed. My main concern is for McFadden, while he will certainly get a few games hopefully for Leinster this season it is hard to see him getting a decent run in the team with BOD and D'arcy around. Cheika won't be concerned about the development of Irish players and nor should he be as a coach of a professional set-up. Hopefully O'Brien can go and fill the 6 void left by Rocky.

Final point on Sexton, he is 23 going 24 and not 25 as previously mentioned!

Thanks for clearing up Sexton's age, I'd meant to include it in my post but forgot. McFadden will get a chance I think. The Lions will be given the first few Magners games off I'd say so he should have a few games - it'll be up to him to put his hand up, and he has the talent to do it. While he is unlikely to displace either D'arce or O'Driscoll for the big games, he can certainly lay a claim to the 22 shirt. On a less positive note, I have a grim feeling BOD is going to be spending a fair bit of time on the treatment table this year. He needs to be used selectively by Leinster and Ireland.

siltirocker

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Final point on Sexton, he is 23 going 24 and not 25 as previously mentioned!

I actually thought the same myself but a buddy earlier said 25, sorry.
Look guys ill finish on this. Sexton is brilliant and current playing at a better level than Keatley(which i've stated myself more than once). But i feel in 2/3 seasons, Keatley will have improved and back to my original point, i cant see why only once prior to myself (by anounymous_joe), he was mentioned in terms of making a future squad.

anonymous_joe

siltirocker wrote: »

Am i the only person, who witnessed him make a fool of Sexton and destroy Rocky last season? Taking it as it was a Connacht game, probably.

Can't wait for someone, who didn't see the game to disagree with me!:D:P

Sexton can be amazing, honestly brilliant but compare Sexton at Keatley's age to Keatley now, there is no contest. Keatley''s only problems is he can lack confidence, but hey, that happens when you play for Connacht anyway.

Keatley's good, but he's not as good as Sexton in my mind. Seen 'em both play, though seen Sexton play more for obvious reasons.

[Jackass]

siltirocker wrote: »

Am i the only person, who witnessed him make a fool of Sexton and destroy Rocky last season? Taking it as it was a Connacht game, probably.

Can't wait for someone, who didn't see the game to disagree with me!:D:P

Sexton can be amazing, honestly brilliant but compare Sexton at Keatley's age to Keatley now, there is no contest. Keatley''s only problems is he can lack confidence, but hey, that happens when you play for Connacht anyway.

Did you see Sexton play both Ronan O'Gara and Stephen Jones off the pitch in the space of 6 days this season when the Lions squad was announced? The then only two out-halfs going on tour.

Or Sexton play O'Gara off the pitch both home and away last season?

By your logic, it's criminal that he's not on the Lions tour.

Sexton is pushing for the best 10 in the country right now, and call me bias, but for my money, Sexton now offers more than O'Gara. Given his oppertunity in 6 nations and if Kidney is willing to drop Munster players and also to trust youth (Keith Earls never got a look in under Kidney, the season he goes and Earls is a Lion), then he has a serious shot for 6 nations.

It wont happen under Kidney for many reasons, but would under most other coaches.

Sexton is infinitely better in defense, MASSIVE bonus there, as O'Garas has gone to sh*t, he's closed the gap hugely on the goal kicking argument, his tactical play has always been excellent, although he was never given credit for it, but is being recognised now, O'Garas kicking from hand has deteriorated, as has his flawless goal kicking this season (although admitadly it has gone from one of the best in the world to "only" very good now), Sexton is better at the flat pass that made O'Gara a good attacking out half, Sexton is infinitely better with ball in hand, much bigger and stronger, much better on the break and half break, can take tackles and make big offloads and is a much more talented footballer around the pitch and if a break is made, you want Sexton in support, not O'Gara.

He's better in defence, he's better in attack, O'Gara has not been better as a tactical player this season and has not been much better as a goal kicker.

It's only a question of this season or next season, but Sexton is a cert as out-half for the world cup, so I don't see why he wouldn't get his shot now and get experience in.

LeeroyJones

[Jackass] wrote: »

if Kidney is willing to drop Munster players and also to trust youth (Keith Earls never got a look in under Kidney, the season he goes and Earls is a Lion), then he has a serious shot for 6 nations.

It wont happen under Kidney for many reasons, but would under most other coaches.

Considering Kidney also left with the Heineken Cup I think it's unfair to question his selection policy!! Also Earls was a year younger and there was a certain Rua Tipoki, whose injury this season really gave the chance Earls took with both hands!

[Jackass]

Hurley started the final.

Ah I don't know. Kidney didn't seem to blood any young Munster players at all either. But that's all for another day.

My point was that I think Sextons development will be held back by years as Kidney wont have the balls to drop O'Gara.

dan719

Kidney is result driven, and Sexton himself said in the Sunday Independent May 30th 2009 that

'Deccie's faith in me helped restore my confidence'

referring to the time when Sexton was not getting a look in at Leinster.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

Hurley started the final.

Ah I don't know. Kidney didn't seem to blood any young Munster players at all either. But that's all for another day.

My point was that I think Sextons development will be held back by years as Kidney wont have the balls to drop O'Gara.

He managed to bring Felix Jones out of nowhere into Ireland A. That's probably the balliest (word?) thing we'v seen from a Ireland Manager in what 6 years?

Amazotheamazing

[Jackass] wrote: »

Hurley started the final.

Ah I don't know. Kidney didn't seem to blood any young Munster players at all either. But that's all for another day.

My point was that I think Sextons development will be held back by years as Kidney wont have the balls to drop O'Gara.

If Sexton's being held back by anyone it's Cheika. I'm pretty sure we all know they don't get on, but Cheika dropped Sexton to play Nacewa when Sexton was clearly the better outhalf, bull**** call from him, imo.

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

He managed to bring Felix Jones out of nowhere into Ireland A. That's probably the balliest (word?) thing we'v seen from a Ireland Manager in what 6 years?

Don't forget Tomas O'Leary getting his first cap against the All Blacks last November - he could have gone with Stringer or Reddan - but he picked on form.

anonymous_joe

dan719 wrote: »

Until you can get an underperforming team to deliver a grand slam in your first season in charge you don't really have the right to criticise his selection policy. Kidney is result driven, and Sexton himself said in the Sunday Independent May 30th 2009 that

'Deccie's faith in me helped restore my confidence'

referring to the time when Sexton was not getting a look in at Leinster.

That's so wrong in so many ways!

Of course we're allowed criticise him. No-one is above criticism.

If England had scraped a late try in the game where we dominated them, and gone on to win the 6 Nations, would we not criticise?

Kidney's only human. He's a good coach, but I can remember his 'tenure' at Leinster. He didn't rate Contepomi at all, in my mind a sign of fallible judgement. Notice what I said there - fallible - not shít, not non-existent, etc. He is not and will not ever be perfect, he's merely a very good coach. He's not the messiah.

He's done a magnificent job for Ireland, but I'd hate to be unable to criticise someone.

dan719

anonymous_joe wrote: »

That's so wrong in so many ways!

Of course we're allowed criticise him. No-one is above criticism.

If England had scraped a late try in the game where we dominated them, and gone on to win the 6 Nations, would we not criticise?

Kidney's only human. He's a good coach, but I can remember his 'tenure' at Leinster. He didn't rate Contepomi at all, in my mind a sign of fallible judgement. Notice what I said there - fallible - not shít, not non-existent, etc. He is not and will not ever be perfect, he's merely a very good coach. He's not the messiah.

He's done a magnificent job for Ireland, but I'd hate to be unable to criticise someone.

Sorry I think I may have phrased that poorly indeed. What I meant was I don't feel it is fair to criticise Kidney on a non existant bias towards ROG and other established players when he has delivered all asked of him in his first season and more. I then elaborated by referencing Sexton himself and his own view of Deccie.

anonymous_joe

dan719 wrote: »

Sorry I think I may have phrased that poorly indeed. What I meant was I don't feel it is fair to criticise Kidney on a non existant bias towards ROG and other established players when he has delivered all asked of him in his first season and more. I then elaborated by referencing Sexton himself and his own view of Deccie.

Oh fair enough.

I don't view him as biased, merely conservative. I don't like that but I can see it's value.

d'Oracle

anonymous_joe wrote: »

That's so wrong in so many ways!

Of course we're allowed criticise him. No-one is above criticism.

If England had scraped a late try in the game where we dominated them, and gone on to win the 6 Nations, would we not criticise?

Kidney's only human. He's a good coach, but I can remember his 'tenure' at Leinster. He didn't rate Contepomi at all, in my mind a sign of fallible judgement. Notice what I said there - fallible - not shít, not non-existent, etc. He is not and will not ever be perfect, he's merely a very good coach. He's not the messiah.

He's done a magnificent job for Ireland, but I'd hate to be unable to criticise someone.

I don't think Ireland were at full whack this year. Its a cracking team and they are capable of playing a lot better.

There is a lot to improve on and Im sure Declan Kidney would agree that there are a lot of places to improve on. On his part too.