Top Five reasons why Lions lost series.

Micky Dolenz

I would be interested to hear yer collective thoughts on this.
What in your opinion was the main reasons we lost.

1 The state of the scrum in 1st test
2 Ref wasn't great in first test.
3 Line out struggled in 1st test
4 ran out of steam and players in 2nd test.
5 bad decision making by senior players in both tests.

thats a few of the top or my head, I am sure those with more rugby knowlegde than me can give a more accurate insight.

[Jackass]

1. Injuries to key players such as Flannery, Ferris, O'Leary, Byrne.
2. Poor selection for first test.
3. Tactically inept in first test.
4. Individual errors in 2nd test and loss of composure.
5. Lions are an exebition team and corporate money making machiene. They have a history of losing despite the talent on the field. It's virtually impossible to forge a team and gameplan worthy of topping the world champions over a 3 test series away from home in a couple of weeks when the other team has played countless tri-nations and world cup campaigns together. Lions tour has nothing to do with what it used to and stands for nothing more than whoring out your national players like a freak show to raise millions and millions and watch them get beat up and embarresed over a few weeks. Hopefully no serious injuries to Irish players on this tour. Last one de-railed the finest Irish players ever career for years and for that alone, I don't think the tour should continue as it stands for nothing and is unnescecary and pointless.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

I don't think the tour should continue as it stands for nothing and is unnescecary and pointless.

You should tell that to all the lads involved in the Lions, i very much doubt they saw it as nothing,pointless and unnecessary.

At the end of the day the players are the ones who should decide if the Lions continue not us key board warriors.

strathspey

[Jackass] wrote: »

They have a history of losing despite the talent on the field. It's virtually impossible to forge a team and gameplan worthy of topping the world champions over a 3 test series away from home in a couple of weeks when the other team has played countless tri-nations and world cup campaigns together. Lions tour has nothing to do with what it used to and stands for nothing more than whoring out your national players like a freak show to raise millions and millions and watch them get beat up and embarresed over a few weeks. Hopefully no serious injuries to Irish players on this tour. Last one de-railed the finest Irish players ever career for years and for that alone, I don't think the tour should continue as it stands for nothing and is unnescecary and pointless.

You probably have no concept of tradition and you probably fall into that category of people who say, 'What has posterity ever done for me'.

Fizman

[Jackass] wrote: »

Last one de-railed the finest Irish players ever career for years and for that alone, I don't think the tour should continue as it stands for nothing and is unnescecary and pointless.

Are you serious?

1. Did you personally get the mans opinion on this?

2. You claim to be a rugby fan. Yet you want the Lions tour to end??? WTF? As a spectacle and an event, its something that I always looked forward to coming around. The two tests were fantastic entertainment, with very little between the sides. The Lions on another day could easily have won both games.

Its funny because even if the game finished in a draw yesterday, and set up next saturday to be the decider, there is a 0% chance you would have posted this.

Micky Dolenz

I suppose another key reason is, that SA are a better team.

walshb

I have always been a fan of Ronan, but plain and simple, his decision
yesterday to do what he did was nothing short of criminal and this was the reason they lost the series. It was 25-25, a draw was ON, and he does that?:rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz

walshb wrote: »

I have always been a fan of Ronan, but plain and simple, his decision
yesterday to do what he did was nothing short of criminal and this was the reason they lost th series. It was 25-25, a draw was ON, and he does that?:rolleyes:

It's a team game, with nearly infinate varibles, If it were a solo sport, then one person could be blamed for failure.

I think it's far too easy to lay blame at one player, surely it was a combination of mistakes over 160 + mins of rugby that they lost.

I'd like to explore these mistakes and errors.

walshb

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It's a team game, with nearly infinate varibles, If it were a solo sport, then one person could be blamed for failure.

I think it's far too easy to lay blame at one player, surely it was a combination of mistakes over 160 + mins of rugby that they lost.

I'd like to explore these mistakes and errors.

Yes, it is a team game, but when ONE player does something so silly and costs
the series, then this player is the reason. That may sound harsh, but it's a fact.

There was 30 secs remaining, it was a draw, we had possession, we were in our own bloody half and he kicks, giving away possession and then fouls the man
in the process. This is plain indefensible and I bet the players were disgusted with
him for it.

gcgirl

walshb wrote: »

Yes, it is a team game, but when ONE player does something so silly and costs
the series, then this player is the reason. That may sound harsh, but it's a fact.

There was 30 secs remaining, it was a draw, we had possession, we were in our own bloody half and he kicks, giving away possession and then fouls the man
in the process. This is plain indefensible and I bet the players were disgusted with
him for it.

i'd have to agree very bad decision on rog's part but he is going to have to live with it !

CatFromHue

this is a thread on why the lions lost the series, it'd be hard to blame o gara when he only played 10 mins or so out of 160 mins of rugby.
you could feel that the boks were coming more and more into the game for the last 30 mins and it was no real surprise that they won in the end.
the back line that finished yesterday was o gara, jones, bowe, fitzgerald, williams and kearney. none of them a recognised center, and 2 guys with a poor at best defence.
the front row that finished, or that was filling in at the uncontested scrums was sheridan, rees and shaw i think. if any team benefitted from the uncontested scrums it was the boks, your man spies was really prominent when the scrums were uncontested.
injured players was a big big factor on this tour and a big factor on it being lost

walshb

gcgirl wrote: »

i'd have to agree very bad decision on rog's part but he is going to have to live with it !

Indeed, A great ambassador and player for Ireland who has won
us so many matches. A fair and clean player with skill and temperament; however,
I have a feeling that Ronan will be now more remembered for that ridiculous error
than for all the previous good he did. He'll never live it down!

It really was schoolboy stuff!

walshb

CatFromHue wrote: »

this is a thread on why the lions lost the series, it'd be hard to blame o gara when he only played 10 mins or so out of 160 mins of rugby.
you could feel that the boks were coming more and more into the game for the last 30 mins and it was no real surprise that they won in the end.
the back line that finished yesterday was o gara, jones, bowe, fitzgerald, williams and kearney. none of them a recognised center, and 2 guys with a poor at best defence.
the front row that finished, or that was filling in at the uncontested scrums was sheridan, rees and shaw i think. if any team benefitted from the uncontested scrums it was the boks, your man spies was really prominent when the scrums were uncontested.
injured players was a big big factor on this tour and a big factor on it being lost

Yes, and in those ten bloody mins, look what his decision resulted in. This is
what you must look at. I like the guy and I am a big fan, but I have to
be honest, yesterday he got it badly wrong and THIS was why the boks got the chance to kick and win. His error gave the penalty away with 30 secs remaining.

No point in blaming the coach, BOD, Jones, Bowe, Fitz, Jenkins etc. They didn't make
that ludicrous error, Rona did!

Micky Dolenz

walshb wrote: »

Yes, and in those ten bloody mins, look what his decision resulted in. This is
what you must look at. I like the guy and I am a big fan, but I have to
be honest, yesterday he got it badly wrong and THIS was why the boks got the chance to kick and win. His error gave the penalty away with 30 secs remaining.

No point in blaming the coach, BOD, Jones, Bowe, Fitz, Jenkins etc. They didn't make
that ludicrous error, Rona did!

Ok I get your point, I'm wasn't pleased with his decision making either. But I don't think his actions alone cost us the series.

If you were to have a team meeting with the players , what would you say on how to improve things? or would you just criticise one player.

What I should have really asked was. Top Five Reasons why Lions didn't win series?

Please don't say one missed tackle

walshb

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Ok I get your point, I'm wasn't pleased with his decision making either. But I don't think his actions alone cost us the series.

If you were to have a team meeting with the players , what would you say on how to improve things? or would you just criticise one player.

What I should have really asked was. Top Five Reasons why Lions didn't win series?

Please don't say one missed tackle

The vast majority of those players are fantastic and the others are good.
It's a sport with two teams, brilliant teams, and one unfortunately must lose.
It was us, and I can take losing due to the bounce of a ball or one team
getting a drop goal or a great try etc; but to lose due to an error
like we lost to is just too hard for me to accept. It was not just ONE error, it was
two.

The first was the decision to give away possession inside his half and then
he compounded this with fouling the player. The added insult is the fact that
this did not happen after 5 mins, ten mins, 25 mins or 65 mins, when we could have
reversed it and made up for it.

He chose to commit this error with feck all left
on the clock, and with the scores LEVEL. It absolutely beggars belief and I cannot
understand how Ronan could have been so stupid.

So, how to improve things? There is no ready and definite fix or
solution. One area is discipline. It is essential, as so many games
are lost thru poor discipline.

Another is possession; eagerness of players to kick the ball
to the opposition is not good and Ronan did it when it was
SO not good. Then he lacked the discipline on the follow up.

So, my choice for the next match would be NOT to allow
Ronan anywhere near the pitch.

Ruthlessness is also a key to success. A player screws up badly, take him off immediately and it will be a warning to others that glaring mistakes will
be punished.


Example: Vickery being allowed stay on the pitch for 45
mins cost us the first match. Vickery should have been withdrawn
after 5 mins. Our lack of action and ruthlessness let us down!

Amabokke

1. Penalties
2. Opportunities (Lions should've scored, kicked and finished better)
3. Management (poor decisions & selections)
4. Leadership (POC was not outstanding but other seniors should've supported him more, BOD did step up but too late.
5. Boks were simply better

walshb

I have to say that POC was a worthy and good leader and one
who led by example, did the work and was an inspiration.
I am gutted for him to have been the captain of a losing squad

Amabokke

walshb wrote: »

I have to say that POC was a worthy and good leader and one
who led by example, did the work and was an inspiration.
I am gutted for him to have been the captain of a losing squad

I don't think he was bad BUT the boks had 7 provincial captains in the team. Martin had several senior key players when he was captained.

POC just sometimes looked lost and did make some silly decisions at times. However, some senior players should've backed him more on the pitch.

[Jackass]

Stev_o wrote: »

You should tell that to all the lads involved in the Lions, i very much doubt they saw it as nothing,pointless and unnecessary.

At the end of the day the players are the ones who should decide if the Lions continue not us key board warriors.

Well, you're right, there is the honour of the "elite" status for the players, being selected as the best amongst their peers, but from a fans perspective, I just don't really care about it, it's as corporate and shameless as it gets, and judging by the turnout at games, no one outside britain and Ireland really gives a sh*t either...and the touring sides are always very poor and more often than not get whitewashed.

strathspey wrote: »

You probably have no concept of tradition and you probably fall into that category of people who say, 'What has posterity ever done for me'.

Who's this clown? Why don't you crawl back under the rock you came from. You haven't a clue and stroll into a rugby forum for the first time when all the trophies are being won etc.?? Don't try and talk to me about what I do or don't know...I would wager I know a sh*t load more about it than you, so go away.

Fizman wrote: »

Are you serious?

1. Did you personally get the mans opinion on this?

2. You claim to be a rugby fan. Yet you want the Lions tour to end??? WTF? As a spectacle and an event, its something that I always looked forward to coming around. The two tests were fantastic entertainment, with very little between the sides. The Lions on another day could easily have won both games.

Its funny because even if the game finished in a draw yesterday, and set up next saturday to be the decider, there is a 0% chance you would have posted this.

I can't believe people are up in arms over this so much, for such a bullsh*t tour...

1. Obviously not - but the fact that it was a reacurring injury and he was out for the guts of a year and a half after it (although in fairness some of that time was hamstring too) and there is an arguable point that the BO'D before and after are complete different players and he had to reinvent himself, I don't think you need to ask the player to see the impact it had on his career...again, in a bullsh*t meaningless team playing a nothing tour...and we missed him for possible grand slam wins etc. as a result in things that matter.

2. Admittedly, yes, the second test was a good game, but look at ALL the loss of players and injuries as a result of the tour, it's a complete joke and a bridge to far for players to be expected to travel with the season...it's an amature concept that doesn't fit in with the requirements of a professional game. Amature tours used to play 30 odd games on this tour and they were real tours that went to communities and was about player bonding and just great for the game and the players...now it's all about "Woodward" era preperation, with massive staffs and playing in vodacom this against vodcacom that, sponsored by HSBC, Castle Beer, exclusive rights SKY and completely whoring the players and using their pride as a bargaining chip to send them out on money making tours for the agreed travel agents back home etc. etc. and that is simply the only thing it represents now and is of absolutely no interest to the visited nation and the first test showed how it was a farcical training match for the boks. It's so foreign to what it once was, fine you can buy into the hype etc., but as a fan of rugby and in interest of my national team and province, I've seen the absolute damage it does and zero positives from it unless your directly involved with the bank accounts, and that is the most hollow reason and deepest darkest tradgedy of a professional sport...Lions tour epitemises everything that's wrong with a professional game, when of course there are so many positives from professional sport outside of that - but lions is the shamefull sellout whoring of the sport at the expense of you and me and our "real" teams that we can be passionate about. They're a corporate Barbarians, nothing more.

3. I was saying this before the tour even started. I don't need bandwagons and favourite pundets to make opinions for me.

gosplan

Injuries, a massive Bok team and some poor luck, ref decisions etc.

Two things I'm feeling very strongly about the lions at the moment.

1: McGeeckan was right when he said that this squad don't deserve to be 2-0 down in the series. They've been great.

2: Will people please please please please shut up about the future of the lions. It simply stinks of being a bad loser to me. We marginally lost to an excellent fully-fit Bok team who've been together for ages. Look at the state of NZ over the last couple of weeks and think what the Lions would have done to them this time around. Or what if the Ferris and O'Leary injuries had been on the Boks side before the first test?

Overall the lions were a whisker away from taking both those matches. Why the hell wouldn't we want to continue such a series.

Stev_o

Jackass wake up, tell me a sport that hasn't been over come with c operate sponsors in fact if you look at your home province you can see the sponsors influence.

DonkeyPokerTour

walshb wrote: »

I have a feeling that Ronan will be now more remembered for that ridiculous error
than for all the previous good he did. He'll never live it down!

What a silly comment!

Same way Ronan will "ALWAYS" be remembered for the terrible world cup he had more than all the previous and post good. The Same way David Beckham will "ALWAYS" be remembered for the kick against Argentina more than the previous and post good. The Same way Stehpen Jones will "ALWAYS" be remembered for missing the kick at the very end of the 6 nations match this year more than the previous and post good.

Everyone makes mistakes, this is not Ronan's first and I'm sure it wont be his last but it wont be the only thing he will be remembered for. If he was such a bad player he wouldn't have been selected for the lions!

Can people please get it into there head that someone who was not on the pitch for the first match and on the pitch for maybe 10minutes in the second match IS NOT the reason the lions lost the series. Sure he made the mistake that gave away the penelty, but what about the 11points South Africa missed earlier in the match?, what about the two guilt edge opportunities Ugo Monye missed in the first match? What if O'Leary/Flannery/Shanklin/Halfpenny/Quinlan/Byrne etc had of been there? There are plenty of reasons why the Lions lost the series and ROG is not the only or even main one!

Tim Robbins

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

1 The state of the scrum in 1st test
2 Ref wasn't great in first test.
3 Line out struggled in 1st test
4 ran out of steam and players in 2nd test.
5 bad decision making by senior players in both tests.

1. Genuine lack of world class players.
There is only one out and out world class player in the Lions squad.

2. End of season fatigue.
I think in the professional game, it's too much to ask players to put their bodies on the line again when the rest of browse the web and watch the tv.

3. Some selections were just wrong. Shaw should have played in the 1st test, Dito Jones. I don't think ROG should have been on the tour.

He only plays well in games when his pack dominates, at home in Thomond usually. The SH know he can't tackle and target him. He's not up to this level of rugby. When playing for Munster his pack are usually on top and they cover him, this can't happen at test level with the BOKs.

I actually even think someone like Patterson would have been a better squad selection than ROG.

PS
To those new posters slagging Jackass, take it easy.

Tim Robbins

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

Everyone makes mistakes, this is not Ronan's first and I'm sure it wont be his last but it wont be the only thing he will be remembered for. If he was such a bad player he wouldn't have been selected for the lions!

Completly agree with this. If anything the lesson is for fans. Don't over hype your own players and call other players chokers, bottlers or ladyboys.

Most players have a weak link. With O'Gara it's just very obvious at this stage and something he hasn't manage to sort out over his career.

Murphy isn't a great tackler either but it doesn't usually show in the GP because teams rarely go wide or his team are dominating so it's easy to cover him.

Everyone is raving about Kearny, Bowe and Fitz' now. I'm yet to be convinced they can be put try saving tackles like the way Shane Horgan can.

I think we all need to take stock and just remember not to over hype our players and slag off other team's players.

anonymous_joe

1. Exhaustion.

2. Injuries.

Flannery and Ferris should have started. The loss of so many props fcuked the team's balance, while the loss of the centres killed the backs.

3. Tactics.

Dominated the first half, surrendered all momentum to South Africa in the second half - a nervous team was given time and space and an easy goal to chase. Foolish game plan.

4. Mistakes.

O'Gara in the last minute, Monye in the first test, some poor decisions were made at crucial times.

5. Luck.

Sometimes you need a bit of luck. South Africa got a great big wedge of luck. Fair play to them for capitalising.

walshb

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

What a silly comment!

Please, tell me where I said he will ALWAYS be remembered for this?

I said he will be MORE remembered for this than anything good he has
done, just like Becks and Zidane and Maradona before him.

I think of Becks, I think of '98; I think of Zidane, I think of '06 and when I think
of Maradona, I think of '86!

I think of Ronan, I think of '09. More so, not always!

It's a human nature thing. Don't be so quick to insult!

jank

1) Injuries, by far the biggest factor. One just has to look at the players who are out of the tour at this stage. Almost a full XV alot of them test starters Crazy stuff!
2) Tactics, When they got their game plan right they put it right up to the boks. Should have focused more
3) Schedule, too long, too short?
4) Ruthlessness, Over the 2 games so far every time the boks got a whiff of some points they took it. Lions lacked that.
5) Boks are a good team but as shown not unbeatable by any measure.



6) Ref and luck did the lions no favor at all.

MG

I'd also add toughness.

The likes of Jenkins, Adam Jones, Wallace, Heaslip are excellent players but none of them are tough, hardass players. That balance wasn't quite right. Shaw addressed this to some extent but the lack of, for example, a Martin Johnson/ Leamy/Quinlan allowed the Boks to bully the Lions.

Aldini98

1. O Gara in the second test - idiot. Can hear him on his next Lucozade ad. 'in the last five mins I get the energy to f**k up a test series'

2. Poor captain. O'Connell is hardly the man to turn to when the going got tough. The fact he was captain meant they had to picvk him reven though he wasnt up to scratch.

3. Vickery in the first test.

4. Monye dropping two tries.

5. Poor referring in both games.

premierstone

Cant believe McGeechan is getting away from as much criticism here as ROG is getting, it was the redicolous 22 that McGeechan picked that the Lions ended up with a back line with 2 OH's, a completely out of form winger and not a centre in sight :rolleyes:

MG

premierstone wrote: »

Cant believe McGeechan is getting away from as much criticism here as ROG is getting, it was the redicolous 22 that McGeechan picked that the Lions ended up with a back line with 2 OH's, a completely out of form winger and not a centre in sight :rolleyes:

Not to mention putting AW Jones on when they went to uncontested scrums -why not Martyn Williams?

premierstone

MG wrote: »

Not to mention putting AW Jones on when they went to uncontested scrums -why not Martyn Williams?

Wouldnt have had AW Jones even in the 22 tbh - should have been DOC, Jones is not exactly an impact player he's very good at what he does but for me he's either a starter or not in the 22

MG

premierstone wrote: »

Wouldnt have had AW Jones even in the 22 tbh - should have been DOC, Jones is not exactly an impact player he's very good at what he does but for me he's either a starter or not in the 22

I agree. There were quite a few questionable calls on the part of the management.

dandy_warhol

Yeah terrible decision by ROG but as has been already said he's a great player and has had some great performances for Ireland and Munster... lets not loose sight of that!

Does anyone else think that EVEN if ROG hadn't of given away the penalty and IF we'd have drawn the game... to win the third test with the players that would've been available to the lions would've been (IMHO) way too tall an order....

The injuries count for this tour has been incredible and ultimately too costly!

(shocking only an 8 week ban for Burger!)

Zzippy

1. Injuries to key players. Flannery and Ferris would have been certain starters. Not so sure about O'Leary.

2. Refereeing decisions. In particular not sending Burger off. The correct red card would have meant a Lions win, no question.

3. Killer Instinct. The Boks had it, the Lions didn't. Simply put, the Boks finished off their opportunities, the Lions didn't. Probably just a matter of Pietersen and Habana are superior players to their opposite numbers.

4. Squad selection. Lack of cover for centres on Saturday was criminal, picking Shane Williams was ridiculous when he can only cover the back 3 at most. Also not making substitutions when warranted, such as Vickery in the first test.

5. Fatigue. The Lions are at the end of a very long season. The Boks are halfway through theirs and building up to the Tri Nations. Think the Lions just ran out of steam in the second half, not helped by the altitude.

GreeBo

1) The modern ref gives 9 thousand warnings before giving cards. Card early and you wont have to card often IMO.
2) POC is not a dynamic leader. Your leader needs to be the guy making great breaks and putting in huge hits. POC doesnt do this whereas BOD does. POC rarely gets more than 2m carrying the ball as he slows down into contact to protect the ball.
3) SA are tougher and rougher, without a strong ref to keep them in check they will dominate weaker teams.
4) Injuries.

gucci

walshb wrote: »

Please, tell me where I said he will ALWAYS be remembered for this?

I said he will be MORE remembered for this than anything good he has
done, just like Becks and Zidane and Maradona before him.

I think of Becks, I think of '98; I think of Zidane, I think of '06 and when I think
of Maradona, I think of '86!

I think of Ronan, I think of '09. More so, not always!

It's a human nature thing. Don't be so quick to insult!

So you remember Beckham for scoring the free kick versus Columbia in the first match he started in the World Cup, Zidane for inspiring a lacklustre and seemingly finished France team to a World Cup final, and Maradona for carrying a team to a World cup and scoring one of the all time best goals? And O'Gara for the drop goal to win ireland the Grand Slam in 09?

Good to see you always look for the positives!

Regarding O'Gara, I have no idea what he was thinking when he kicked the up and under, for a player so usually "safe" its was bizarre, but he clearly lost the flight of the ball, be it for what ever reasons, fear/blinded by the bandage/sunshine/took his eye off it etc.

d'Oracle

1. Injuries. Unquestionably the biggest factor. Ferris, for example, is the best 6 available by a good stretch.

2. Poor finishing from a certain winger.

3. Selection Errors. Or rather not selecting Martyn Willams and so conceding the breakdown.

4. Too many warm-up games.

5. Not being as good as the best team in the world. The boks are frickin fabulous at the moment. Even with their centres totally off form (terrified).


On the other issue in this thread.
There has been some muppetry in this thread.
Fair enough if you like the lions, but using the whole "don't like Lions = not real rugby fan" thing show that you are an empty headed buffoon.

I love rugby. But it is flawed. There is WAY too much bull**** in rugby.
I don't want the lions. My dad doesn't either, he has seen players destroyed on lions tour. Talks about an irish scrum half called Patterson who ended his career on the tour.

To me it is an unnecessary risk, a commercial showpony and a gesture which says to me "we will never be good enough to beat the Sanzars on our own."

I don't need a lions tour to tell me the Irish players area among the best in the 6N. Winning a grand slam at a canter told me that. The years of agonisingly close misses while playing AWFUL rugby under that cantankerous wee ****e O'Sullivan told me that.

Celebrating triple crowns in another one. Its like saying, "look at us, we didnt beat france". Which is why I got such satisfactionout of seeing BOD treat the stupid plate thing like a frizbee.

IMO if you can't accept why some rugby fans have a problem with the lions, then you yourself aren't a rugby fan.

d'Oracle

walshb wrote: »

I said he will be MORE remembered for this than anything good he has
done, just like Becks and Zidane and Maradona before him.

I think of Becks, I think of '98; I think of Zidane, I think of '06 and when I think
of Maradona, I think of '86!

Thats you dude.
I think of Zidane, I think of a big, awkward looking, slow, balding Berber doing mind blowing stuff on the ball. And what he did to England. That headbutt doesn't really come into it.

When you say Marradonna and '86 I think of one of the finest goals I have ever seen.

Its not Human nature to be miserable. Its a choice.
Plus if I was to think of O'Gara ****ing up, I would probably think of the games where he was playing for Ireland, got stuffed early and went to sleep, not this.

gav86

premierstone wrote: »

Cant believe McGeechan is getting away from as much criticism here as ROG is getting, it was the redicolous 22 that McGeechan picked that the Lions ended up with a back line with 2 OH's, a completely out of form winger and not a centre in sight :rolleyes:

Here here, I said it when the squad was announced but most people replied with 'ah sure there only on the bench', even Hook who can cover 10 and 12 If your insiting on playing williams

d'Oracle

gav86 wrote: »

Here here, I said it when the squad was announced but most people replied with 'ah sure there only on the bench', even Hook who can cover 10 and 12 If your insiting on playing williams

Fitz is a centre.

walshb

gucci wrote: »

So you remember Beckham for scoring the free kick versus Columbia in the first match he started in the World Cup, Zidane for inspiring a lacklustre and seemingly finished France team to a World Cup final, and Maradona for carrying a team to a World cup and scoring one of the all time best goals? And O'Gara for the drop goal to win ireland the Grand Slam in 09?

Good to see you always look for the positives!
c.

I hope that is not what you meant.

Just to clarify, Beckham for his red card vs Argentina; Zidane for his atrocious gurrier behaviour in the final vs. Italy and Diego for his blatant cheat in the QF in 1986.

Now, I also remember all three for 'good' and inspirational moments, but when I first think
of them sporting wise, these three images appear first.

O'Gara may well be more remembered for his costing the Lions
the match in the second TEST as opposed to anything positive he had done previously.
Not only remembered, just more remembered!

walshb

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not Human nature to be miserable. Its a choice.
Plus if I was to think of O'Gara ****ing up, I would probably think of the games where he was playing for Ireland, got stuffed early and went to sleep, not this.

Who said it was miserable to think of these images? They are just images
portraying lasting impressions, powerful ones at that!

OJ Simposon is barely remembered for being one of the greatest
running backs in history.

Jean Van De Velde is not remembered for being a great golfer.
He's remembered for choking in the Open in 1999

And the list goes on!

d'Oracle

walshb wrote: »

Who said it was miserable to think of these images? They are just images
portraying lasting impressions, powerful ones at that!

I did. If you choose not to remember the Glory of Zizou, instead remembering one silly incident, then you are a miserable git in my book.

Everyone remembers the other goal from '86, bar a lot of bitter english fans.

OJ killed someone. Its not exactly missing a tackle is it?

walshb

d'Oracle wrote: »

I did. If you choose not to remember the Glory of Zizou, instead remembering one silly incident, then you are a miserable git in my book.

Everyone remembers the other goal from '86, bar a lot of bitter english fans.

OJ killed someone. Its not exactly missing a tackle is it?

You seem to have difficulty with the words 'only' and 'more'.

I'll leave you to figure that out!

d'Oracle

walshb wrote: »

You seem to have difficulty with the words 'only' and 'more'.

I'll leave you to figure that out!

None at all old bean.
I have an issue with miserable gits who choose to remember one poor act of anger over a career of astoundingly graceful football and I think most of the football fans I know remember Zizou more for his incredible dribbling, passing, ballstriking etc.

walshb

d'Oracle wrote: »

None at all old bean.
I have an issue with miserable gits who choose to remember one poor act of anger over a career of astoundingly graceful football and I think most of the football fans I know remember Zizou more for his incredible dribbling, passing, ballstriking etc.

Yes, but usually, the ONE single instance, if it's controversial or silly or
costs the person a guaranteed win, will STAND out. That's my
point. They never live it down and its stays with audiences
for ever.

I well remember Zidane and Diego. Both are sublime and brilliant.
I do however instantly think of Zidane's head butt and Diego's hand
of god.

I bet you anything, that if you ask anyone to mention something associated with
Diego from his career, they will more than likely mention the hand of god
goal. It's that infamous.

It's not being miserable; it's simply the publicity that the controversial and negative
usually receive

d'Oracle

I Disagree.

As a sports fan it doesn't sit right with me.
And I will add that if we are talking about costing the match, you can count Marradonna out.

This is getting us nowhere.

walshb

d'Oracle wrote: »

I Disagree.

As a sports fan it doesn't sit right with me.
And I will add that if we are talking about costing the match, you can count Marradonna out.

This is getting us nowhere.

So, you think that the real controversial and negative moment is
not what most remember? I have to disagree; It usually is the first
moment folks recall.

anonymous_joe

Champions League versus Leverkusen. Volley.

Micky Dolenz

Can anybody point me in the direction of the Rugby forum please...I think I'm lost :pac: