Effects of cycling on Bone Density

sy

Interesting article here on the risks of osteoporosis from spending too many hours in the saddle. Worth reading the comments from Mur X that follow the article.

I would have been very active in my 20's playing football, badminton, basketball and cycling, however as the years progressed I have just stuck with the bike and do nothing else(except walking!) Lots of little aches and pains so cycling has been the kindest to the musculoskeletal system or so I thought.

I know that bone density can be improved up to mid/late thirties? but was unaware of the effects which are referred to in this article and the replies by Mur X. Yes I am also aware that endurance training lowers testosterone and that cortisol levels increase but the leaching of Calcium from the skeleton due to excessive sweating is new to me. I assumed the constant pushing and pulling using the body's large muscle groups would be enough to stress the bones etc and therefore ward off osteoporosis. Seemingly not.

No I am not a hypochondriac but interested to hear the views and comments, especially from those in the medical profession.

DirkVoodoo

I already mentioned getting 5-a-side going maybe once every 2 weeks to get a bit of impact training into our regimes, but there were no takers.

sy

At your age I would reckon cross training is essential.Will make you even stronger on the climbs

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I already mentioned getting 5-a-side going maybe once every 2 weeks to get a bit of impact training into our regimes, but there were no takers.

I was on for that IIRC, just a bit concerned that the bikes would chew up the pitch. Football on bikes would probably involve a fair bit of falling so astroturf would be right out. Where did you have in mind?

Nietzschean

blorg wrote: »

Football on bikes would probably involve a fair bit of falling so astroturf would be right out.

Its supposed to be impact training isn't it? , just roll with them....

DirkVoodoo

No no, we get OFF the bikes. I no it sounds weird, maybe a little scary, but we can run and kick the ball...without bikes. Bikeless football, who knows it might take off?

DirkVoodoo

sy wrote: »

At your age I would reckon cross training is essential.Will make you even stronger on the climbs

What exactly is cross training? Not cyclocross I'm guessing.

Nietzschean

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

What exactly is cross training? Not cyclocross I'm guessing.

running/swimming, doing something else other than your primary sport...

DirkVoodoo

Nietzschean wrote: »

running/swimming, doing something else other than your primary sport...

Ah I see. I don't like to run and I'm not much of a swimmer. I also refuse to climb mountains.

Someone should make a boards tag rugby league, teams are based on the forum you most frequently post in. I'd say that 410 could do pretty well.

Zipp101

Cycling makes you very stiff I find when playing other sports.
Also,while I may have good endurance on the bike,running after a ball is just....draining to say the least.Different type of fitness?

DirkVoodoo

Zipp101 wrote: »

Cycling makes you very stiff I find when playing other sports.
Also,while I may have good endurance on the bike,running after a ball is just....draining to say the least.Different type of fitness?

Yes, cycling is not friendly to other sports. Be sure to incorporate a good stretching program into your training, it can be quite hard on the hamstrings, causing them to shorten. When you engage in any kind of running, you notice how useless your hamstrings have become.

Also different type of fitness and muscles at play.

Ryder

Scientific studies can show up lots of areas of concern that make little difference in the real world. In this case the effects on testosterone etc arent new but what is the practical difference? As in have they shown an increased fracture rate in retired cyclists?

Nietzschean

well i'd be up for some footie or something, keep meaning to get into doing some running or swimming for the cross training really, but they are so god damn boring...

blorg

Off the bikes you say!? Can we at least cycle to the pitch? On a slightly more serious note, I would be on for this- either football or (tag?) rugby. Used to play rugby so not sure I would be so keen on tag, that takes out all the fun There are a few serious rugby guys on this forum though, it could all get very bloody if we were to go for standard full-contact rugby. Would be more fun though. Until someone breaks something.

sy

Ryder wrote: »

Scientific studies can show up lots of areas of concern that make little difference in the real world. In this case the effects on testosterone etc arent new but what is the practical difference? As in have they shown an increased fracture rate in retired cyclists?

Cyclists don't retire, they just die of old age!

I can't really answer that question Ryder.

On a serious note, bone density decreases naturally with age. Lower testosterone levels etc. It is essential therefore that one builds maximum bone density by mid to late thirties to ensure you have enough to carry you thro old age. :cool:(Cross training is therefore essential for anybody below this age category) It is even more important for females as they have to, in general, cope with the demands of pregnancy on their skeletal mass. So I'm interested and would like to know is their any studies to show that retired older cyclists are more prone to osteoporosis. I know quite a few healthy and very strong 60 year old+ cyclists who seem to contradict this article

TinyExplosions

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Ah I see. I don't like to run and I'm not much of a swimmer. I also refuse to climb mountains.

Someone should make a boards tag rugby league, teams are based on the forum you most frequently post in. I'd say that 410 could do pretty well.

I'd be up for that, footy or tag

bcmf

I destroyed my knees playing football. You can literally hear them creak if I am kneeling on the floor.Thats why I ended up cycling. BUT through many accidents I have never broken a bone (with the exception of my nose and that wasnt really sport related)

victorcarrera

Kelly + Harmon were talking about this during the Giro. They were discussing why so many more riders today were braking bones when they crashed compared to years ago. They surmised that it may be diet related and undernourishment due to the importance of low body weight for professionals.

Re Article:
I think we are somewhat protected here in Ireland though as we dont get enough hot weather to sweat so much and our roads are rough enough to provide plenty of shock treatment to maintain a healthy bone structure.

If intense endurance training and racing causes depletion of the naturally occurring substances such as calcium, iron, vitamins, testostorone etc to unhealthy levels why is it illegal to supplement with testostorone? Or are they all taking controled low doses of it to keep themselves legal?

When I read articles like this I think the pro scene is so demanding as to be unhealthy due to the number of races, length and intensity.

RobFowl

I have a bit of expertise here (if you believe that coming from an anonymous poster :rolleyes:).
cycling per say does not increase the risk of osteoporosis full stop.

Weight bearing exercise however does protect against it (cycling does not count as weight bearing exercise, nor does swimming BTW).
Also there is evidence that female enurance athletes with low body fat levels have an increased risk of osteoporosis (runners,crosscountry skiers, cyclists and many more)
That is evidence based and I will stand over those facts and produce evidence if asked (please don't though it's alot of hassle)

The increased risk of fractures in cyclists may be related to the fact that we come off bikes at high speed with little if any protection !!!

Also ex internationals have suggested to me that the higher level of fractures among pros was/is due to cortisone use/abuse especially in the pre EPO era (not evidence based and can't provide convincing evidence to back this up)

Will post this link on the Biology and Medicine forum to get other opinions so do venture there (innuendo and crappy links are not tolerated there BTW)

DirkVoodoo

Sweet, we should head out to a local park someday for a spot of tag. It's good fun and everyone can play.

2Scoops

RobFowl wrote: »

cycling per say does not increase the risk of osteoporosis full stop.

I'd agree with this. The studies mentioned only say that cyclists have lower BMD than people who regularly perform high impact physical activity, not that cycling causes loss of BMD. Physical activity with impact will build up BMD and slow its attrition but, if all you do is cycling, you will not have these benefits. It would be interesting to see their BMD compared with Joe Couch Potato - I'm guessing it would be similar.

Trojan

If anyone's on for 7s rugby I'm in.

RobFowl

Trojan wrote: »

If anyone's on for 7s rugby I'm in.

As long as it on a bike you'll have plenty of takers here !

Trojan

Hah, bike rugby, wonder how that'd work.

As for 7s, it's got a good mix of tag (lots of running and space which the ladybacks love) and real rugby - full tackle and rucking (which the heavy units love).

And btw in 18 years playing rugby, I've never broken a bone Compare that to tag rugby (hint: tag is fscking lethal on fingers and hands).

Lumen

So, to summarize: running and testosterone injections FTW?

Finally I have an excuse to start amateur doping.

Oh and Dirk, consider yourself lucky there's no "thumbs down" button. Football, jesus.

Jawgap

Trojan wrote: »

Hah, bike rugby, wonder how that'd work.

As for 7s, it's got a good mix of tag (lots of running and space which the ladybacks love) and real rugby - full tackle and rucking (which the heavy units love).

And btw in 18 years playing rugby, I've never broken a bone Compare that to tag rugby (hint: tag is fscking lethal on fingers and hands).

7s!!! Are you mad? Too much space!!:) Unless you're planning on playing on half a pitch. You don't have to guess with category I fall into as a player.

I've played rubgy for a lot of years too and despite numerous dislocations, I've never broken anything - plenty of soft tissue injuries but so far nothing has snapped.

I started cycling and since then I've broken each collar bone once!

Anyway, I find swimming is a great complimentary exercise to cycling - helps build cv fitness, improves respiration efficiency and works muslces that are not used on the bike.

ROK ON

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Someone should make a boards tag rugby league, teams are based on the forum you most frequently post in. I'd say that 410 could do pretty well.

A very very bad idea. Having played rugby from the age 6 to 22 and then basically stopped, I played tag for the past 2 summers. Never again. Tag is a highly dangerous sport, that is badly refereed, with a lot of middle aged fat bast*rd ex rugby players thinking they are Paul OConnell. A huge amount of cheap shots, late tackles, injuries. Mix that with at leat 3 women on most teams in the leisure leagues and a lot of people who have never played is an absolute disaster.
If you want to destroy an entire summer cycling/football etc, then play tag rugby. I would rather pack down against the Springbok front row, than ever play tag again.
Rabt over.

AstraMonti

We can play basketball :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

Over ten years of real rugby and I never broke a bone. Seconds into my first tag rugby match I smashed a finger to pieces and was off the bike for weeks. Full contact or nothing I say.

Raam

If we are to take a positive, I read somewhere that cycling is better for your bone density than doing no exercise at all

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

If we are to take a positive, I read somewhere that cycling is better for your bone density than doing no exercise at all

I think you're missing the obvious benefit.

Lower bone density = less mass to drag up the climbs.

Thus, bone density is "trainable".

Sure, you might break a hip when attempting to walk on an icy pavement. So don't walk anywhere.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

I think you're missing the obvious benefit.

Lower bone density = less mass to drag up the climbs.

Thus, bone density is "trainable".

Sure, you might break a hip when attempting to walk on an icy pavement. So don't walk anywhere.

I weighed myself last night... 70kg.
Highest in a while

short circuit

Raam wrote: »

I weighed myself last night... 70kg.
Highest in a while

You are getting fat .... soon we might even be able to see you ... and then one day you are going to know what it feels like being pinched.:pac:

Vélo

Can we do this instead?

Vélo

Tiny,

Here's one for you.

lukester

Lumen wrote: »

Sure, you might break a hip when attempting to walk on an icy pavement. So don't walk anywhere.

When off the bike, wheelchairs FTW.

unionman

This is a picture of my local tag rugby team. The local variation on the rules requires that you 'twang the thong'. Once the thong is twanged the player has to release the ball, but incidents of thumbs still thong-twanged mean that the ball is often ignored as everyone points and laughs at the hilarity that ensues.

The risk of injury is very real.



The team have an annual bone density test, no depletion in calcium levels has yet been detected.

blorg

Vélo wrote: »

Can we do this instead?

Pretty sure Aquinas would be a dab hand at that.

petethedrummer

Vélo wrote: »

White socks. Euro-horse.

Hungrycol

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

it can be quite hard on the hamstrings, causing them to shorten. When you engage in any kind of running, you notice how useless your hamstrings have become.

Hay Dirk, can you expand on this. I was told recently by a physio that I have very long hamstrings and that's it's normally a sign of weakness:eek:. I though she was having a laugh considering the amount of workout the legs get when cycling. Are we not using our hamstrings while cycling?!

DirkVoodoo

You use them on the upstroke, but I think the repeated motion found on a bike can cause the muscle to shorten over time, leading to tearing and the build up of scar tissue which reduces the muscle ductility. There is an optimal muscle length of course, I'm not sure what long hamstrings do, your physio knows more.

Anyway, more advice here: http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-20-18151-1,00.html

I'm pretty sure that it is not the exercise on the bike, which is obviously good, but the cyclic nature of loading the muscles that seems to limit the range of motion. Proper stretching is a must.

Also, I'm not a Doctor, this is just my opinion and may be open to correction.

DirkVoodoo

Wow, a lot of anti-tag sentiment here. I never had a problem with broken bones, one lad on our team did dislocate his thumb after catching it in someone's shorts. I did get tackled by someone when I was clean through for a try, the dastard. Ref didn't even send him off!

I can play real rugby too, just stick me out on the wing.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Anyway, more advice here: http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-20-18151-1,00.html

As a fan of rearward seat position (it helps if you want to walk up stairs the next day) I don't really understand this:

Anna Saltonstall, a physical therapist at Mid-Columbia Medical Center wrote:

If your seat is too far back, you overuse your hamstrings and glutes

Those muscles are massive. The alternative is to move the seat forwards and use your quads, but those are tiny (well, mine are), and are surely more likely to get "overused", whatever that means.

Vélo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Wow, a lot of anti-tag sentiment here. I never had a problem with broken bones, one lad on our team did dislocate his thumb after catching it in someone's shorts. I did get tackled by someone when I was clean through for a try, the dastard. Ref didn't even send him off!

I can play real rugby too, just stick me out on the wing.

Why did he have his thumb rammed down someone's shorts?

DirkVoodoo

Yes but your hamstrings are engaged for about 80% of the pedal cycle, from pretty much the beginning of the downstroke to near the top of the upstroke. So they see far more use than the quads. They also link towards lower back flesibility which will influence your posture and comfort on the bike.
Personally I like my saddle forward, I don't get many hamstring problems.

@Aquinas/Velo: It was the volvic tag with those little velcro tags on the shorts. I was thinking we could do tip, just a bit of fun in the park, nothing serious (aside from the boards tag idea, which was just a suggestion).

Trojan

Dirk, I am very anti-tag, and with good reason. It's not even the fact that it reduces rugby to all the bits that I'm not good at (speed, sidestep, not hitting people violently and getting away with it).

Here's a wee story that can be lesson for all of you folks considering it. And I will say "I told you so" when it happens this time

========================================

PowerHouseDan wrote: »

Anyone doing the Summer Tag Rugby Leagues This Year?

Trojan wrote: »

Every year I hear the same, see friends of friends with fingers/hands/arms in casts... "what happened him/her?"; "Broke his finger/dislocated his bejaysus/did whatever playing tag".

In 16 years of playing full contact rugby, I have never, ever seen as many injuries in one season.

Conclusion: play full contact, it's much safer.

PowerHouseDan wrote: »

Its offical Tag Rugby Sucks... First game tonight, and broke my finger

Trojan wrote: »

*stiffles urge to say it*

Amz wrote: »

He told you so!

unionman

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

one lad on our team did dislocate his thumb after catching it in someone's shorts.

Vélo wrote: »

Why did he have his thumb rammed down someone's shorts?

His thumb got thong-twanged.

abcdggs

the safety of rugby union has a lot to do with how good the players you're playing against are. i played for the 4th team in secondary school for half a season, in that time i saw some break his fibula and tibia in one go (very gross) broken thumb, several concussions and innumerable soft tissue injuries. just my 2 cents

Screwballs

Why not set up an interfirm gaa team, there is a good impact sport ...

Well here is my 2 cents, - do a little bit of everything - whatever sport it may be, tag, rugby, badminton, squash, gaa, cycling, swimming... create a balance in your sporting activities, that way you become more well rounded (no pun intended)...

common sense really...

ROK ON

abcdggs wrote: »

the safety of rugby union has a lot to do with how good the players you're playing against are.

Wouldn't say good per ser, but how well trained they are. That is trained to tackle, take a tackle, evade a tackle and fall. Scrum/ruck etc.
Problem with tag is the lethal combination of people who have never played rugby (and know nothing about the game), with the chuck norris type retired players who would rather bully the uninitiated than take their aggression out on a proper rugby pitch (where it belongs) and would be rammed back at them.

Chips Lovell

Back when I was playing proper rugby, we used to play a different variation in training during the summer, whereby you were tackled if someone slapped both your hips. Works much better. None of your silly finger injuries there, which I was told at Vincents are endemic at this time of the year.