Lions Team for 2nd test discussion thread.

thomond2006

The team is likely to be announced today so I thought I'd get the ball rolling!

Ciaran-Irl

I hope there are aren't the widespread changes that people are clamoring for. If he makes six + changes, it will damage morale in the team. It is important to remember that they did well, and could have snatched it (undeservedly, sadly) by taking any of Monye's chances, Philips outstretched hand, Bowe's try that was disallowed for crossing or if they had taken penalty kicks when offered.

I would be happy with just Adam Jones at 3, a change in second row and a change at 11. I think the sudden clamour for Matthew Rees is madness - he is always terrible. He is a penalty magnet - did nobody notice that stupid punch 10 seconds after he came on?

I'd go for Kearney at 11 myself.

buck65

If , if, if
If the Springboks cottoned onto the fact that the Lions pack was brutal they would have mauled them to death in the first half as well as the second.
Truth is we were destroyed by a team who had almost 40% possesion and territory!
The Lions were 26 -7 down and the Boks took the foot off the pedal and brought in half a new team.
What changes can be made to change it? Don't really know, without Ferris and Flannery we really lack the physicality in the pack to make a difference.
Sheridan is probably a loss too as was Murray.
My team would be
1.Jenkins 2. Rees (better than Mears, still poor) 3.Jones 4. O Callaghan 5. POC 6. Croft 7. Williams 8 . Heaslip 9 Philips 10 Hook 11 Fitzgerald 12 Roberts 13 BOD 14 Bowe 15 Kearney
Prediction Boks by 12

chupacabra

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I'd go for Kearney at 11 myself.

Kearneys defense on the wing has been less than admirable this season. Fitz provides more of an attacking threat, a better defense and the instinct and awareness to come off his wing and make things happen. How can anyone put Kearney ahead of Fitz on the wing?

buck65

Agree, I would put Earls on the bench to shake it up at FB if Kearney tires. He is showing decent form at the moment.

John McClane

Rumour has it that Byrne is injured so Kearney should get the nod at full back
I reckon the team will be

1.Jenkins 2. Rees 3.Jones
4. Shaw 5. POC
6. Croft 7. Williams 8 . Wallace
9 Philips 10 Jones
11 Fitzgerald 12 Roberts 13 BOD 14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Wreck

John McClane wrote: »

1.Jenkins 2. Rees 3.Jones
4. Shaw 5. POC
6. Croft 7. Williams 8 . Wallace
9 Philips 10 Jones
11 Fitzgerald 12 Roberts 13 BOD 14 Bowe
15 Kearney

This is what I would pick too - with a backrow of Croft, Wallace and Heaslip. And unlike most other people, I think that the Lions are in with a good shout of winning if this is the team that is picked.

smurphy29

Think we'll see two changes in the front row, one in the second and one/two in the back three depending on Byrne's fitness. Rees and Jones will make an all Welsh front row. Shaw should come in - this guy is so under-rated and will give 60 minutes of quality. Donncha to come on again in the last 20 to put himself about. If Byrne is fit he deserves another go at 15. He's a fantastic player and, like the other underperformers in the first test (Heaslip, POC), is too good to be so poor twice in a row. Kearney is a high quality replacement if Bryne's injured. Think Fitz will get the nod at 11.

Ciaran-Irl

Wreck wrote: »

This is what I would pick too. And unlike most other people, I think that the Lions are in with a good shout of winning if this is the team that is picked.

Can't see Williams being started at 7 regardless. He played 80 minutes on Tuesday, 30 minutes in the first test and he is now at altitude. And 33.

Wreck

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Can't see Williams being started at 7 regardless. He played 80 minutes on Tuesday, 30 minutes in the first test and he is now at altitude. And 33.

Yeah I fully agree, my mistake I misread the post I quoted - I'd pick the same backrow that started the first test.

Ciaran-Irl

chupacabra wrote: »

Kearneys defense on the wing has been less than admirable this season. Fitz provides more of an attacking threat, a better defense and the instinct and awareness to come off his wing and make things happen. How can anyone put Kearney ahead of Fitz on the wing?

My logic here is that I think changes need to be kept to a minimum, I'm presuming Byrne will be fit, and I think Kearney deserves a start more than Fitzgerald. Not by much, but enough. He has been solid in defense all tour, and this will be a much tighter, territorial game. The kicking game at high altitude will be hugely important, and Kearney has that nailed.

I'm a massive Fitzgerald fan, but if I take off my tinted glasses (blue/green), I don't think he has played as well as he can this tour. One try isn't a huge return on his game time, and his kicking has been a little off. Yeah, he has been defensively good, but that isn't enough from his talent.

I think if we are to have any chance, we need to test their 10 and 15 with high balls. It looked to be their only consistent problem all game, and we didn't test them enough to be honest.

Peter B

buck65 wrote: »

My team would be
1.Jenkins 2. Rees (better than Mears, still poor) 3.Jones 4. O Callaghan 5. POC 6. Croft 7. Williams 8 . Heaslip 9 Philips 10 Hook 11 Fitzgerald 12 Roberts 13 BOD 14 Bowe 15 Kearney
Prediction Boks by 12

Interested to know why you chose Hook at 10. On recent form I'd have both other out halves ahead of him. It would be close between Rog and Jones though.

TarfHead

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

.. we need to test their 10 and 15 with high balls.

How to you test a 10 with high balls ?

Apart from a Guy Easterby pass ?

Ciaran-Irl

TarfHead wrote: »

How to you test a 10 with high balls ?

Apart from a Guy Easterby pass ?

Yeah, typo, sorry. You know what I mean.

budhabob

What time is the team being announced? generally before lunch time isnt it?

shanagarry

budhabob wrote: »

What time is the team being announced? generally before lunch time isnt it?

9 minutes time!

Euro_Kraut

Any one know what the highest number of Irish player selected for a Loins Test game is? I'm guessing today could be a record.

shanagarry

Shaw starting!!!! Can't see rest of team yet...

budhabob

shanagarry wrote: »

Shaw starting!!!! Can't see rest of team yet...

+1 whats the story there? feck sake.

Frank_Gallagher

budhabob wrote: »

+1 whats the story there? feck sake.

+2....WTF?

Ludo

5 changes according to BBC...no team yet though

Ludo

From BBC

Lions call up Adam Jones, Matthew Rees, Simon Shaw, Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney

bleg

Kearney, Fitz, Shaw, Rees, Jones

Stealdo

^^ beaten to it

marco_polo

Kearney, Fitzgerald, BOD, Roberts, Bowe, Jones, Phillips
Wallace, Heaslip, Croft, POC, Shaw, Jones, Rees, Jenkins

Any bench yet?

Stealdo

Sheridan, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Ellis, ROG, Ross Ford on bench, and crazily in my opinion Shane Williams

shanagarry

Stealdo wrote: »

Sheridan, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Ellisa, ROG, Ross Ford on bench, and crazily in my opinion Shane Williams

Oh please... Maybe I should get a refund on my flights while I can.

bleg

very strange o callaghan was dropped from the bench, did nothing wrong in my opinion...

thewing

Shane Williams? FFS....should have given Earls a chance - decent utility cover...

Daysha

O'Gara can count himself very unlucky.

Depp

why aint ROG starting, for gods sake, he way outperformed steve jones on this tour, geech needs his head examined. fool.

marco_polo

Stealdo wrote: »

Sheridan, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Ellis, ROG, Ross Ford on bench, and crazily in my opinion Shane Williams

I suppose he reckons he has enough versatility on the pitch in Luke and Rob to get away with a winger on the bench.

Euro_Kraut

7 Irish
6 Welsh
2 English

Not bad

smurphy29

Did ROG make the bench?

Ludo

No DOC on the bench...pity.

crisco10

Monye paying heavily for last week so. Think its harsh, I thought the first almost try he did very well to get near the line and De Villiers did a good job on him.

Worrying for Byrne moving forward that he has that niggly injury. Never good for a player in their late 20's. Unless your BOD and its the hamstring! lol

Depp

That is stupid, after doc's performance on tues wynny's tour should be over. Possible wasps/wales influence goin on here?

Jackz

I would have started ROG and brought Jones if he was having a poor game, ROG's kicking is pretty much second to none and his distribution is underestimated.

Perhaps the numbers worked against him:

Irish: 7
Welsh: 6
English: 2

chupacabra

Williams on the bench is INCREDIBLY frustrating. Now i dont want to start a war, but you have to say there is some welsh bias in that selection. Gatland and co desperate to have their star winger playing well? He simply isnt. Thats it, no variables, no discussion, he is completley off form. Monye or Earls would have been better benchers. Maybe even Hook.

Stealdo

Depp wrote: »

why aint ROG starting, for gods sake, he way outperformed steve jones on this tour, geech needs his head examined. fool.

Sky Sports News made a big deal about his being on the bench ahead of Hook as if it was a shock.

DOC was probably ahead of AWJ in terms of a starting point but the next choice for a starting spot isn't always the first choice for a bench spot. That's what's nuts about Shane Williams on the bench, he offers you very little in terms of cover and means that you're almost certain to have to make 2 switches if anyone gets injured. Also having a loosehead on the bench when the tighthead position was such a problem the last day is a big risk.

marco_polo

Perhaps the management team picked what they felt was the best team available to them, to win the game. :rolleyes:

There are no criminal ommissions from the team or squad, a few tight calls that could have gone to other players. Nothing worth throwing toys out of the pram over.

purcela

I think that having both Jones and O'Gara in the squad is a bit pointless, they are too similar. I would have preferred to see O'Gara start, with Hook on the bench. Shane Williams' inclusion is astounding given that he has offered very little in the ridiculous amount of games he has been allowed to play in to prove his worth. He has failed on each occasion and his inclusion in this squad is not justified. Delighted to see Fitzgerald in, though he deserved to start ahead of Monye last week. At least now McGeechan and Co realise that Monye was extremely overrated.

Depp

Completely agree on the welsh bias there, awj shud be gone long ago. aswell though its quare good for forde, when he was called up at 1st everyone said how he was not up to the standard, but now hes on the bench for a test match, couldn't be happier for the fella.

Poncherello

Depp wrote: »

why aint ROG starting, for gods sake, he way outperformed steve jones on this tour, geech needs his head examined. fool.

because he cant tackle

shanagarry

chupacabra wrote: »

Williams on the bench is INCREDIBLY frustrating. Now i dont want to start a war, but you have to say there is some welsh bias in that selection. Gatland and co desperate to have their star winger playing well? He simply isnt. Thats it, no variables, no discussion, he is completley off form. Monye or Earls would have been better benchers. Maybe even Hook.

100% agreed. He seemed to get lots of credit for that one strip on Tues night, but I think it was misplaced. They were running directly towards where I was standing, and he looked well beaten - if he hadn't got that ball they would have been in. I would be afraid defensively if he comes on and he has shown nothing going forward. He seems to have no faith in his pace (I think it's fading fast) and comes inside all the time now.

Requiem4adream

Depp wrote: »

That is stupid, after doc's performance on tues wynny's tour should be over. Possible wasps/wales influence goin on here?

Definitely a hint of it.

DOC is brutally unlucky a) not to start and b) not to backup.

ROG in totality has outperformed Jones & Hook by some distance on tour. I genuinely doubt he'll even take to the field on saturday if last week is anything to go by. Geech has been repeatedly positive in his praise for ROG all tour yet you'd have to question whether Gatland et al are pushing hard for him not to be included.

Slightly OT, but from the 97 Lions, the captain had a voice in the selection process. Remember Johnson in the room with Telfer, Geech etc. I wonder is it the same story this time around?

All said and done, ROG and DOC aside, and other issues aside - i'm pretty happy with that side from an irish and neutral sorta perspective. Gonna be epic.

Otacon

Didn't realise Sheridan was fit.

ROG should be starting.

Williams should not be on the bench. Either Earls or (more likely) Monye should be there.

Also, DOC is very unlucky not to be there. Of the two locks, Shaw is probably going to need to come off, and DOC would be the more natural (and better) replacement.

marco_polo

purcela wrote: »

I think that having both Jones and O'Gara in the squad is a bit pointless, they are too similar. I would have preferred to see O'Gara start, with Hook on the bench. Shane Williams' inclusion is astounding given that he has offered very little in the ridiculous amount of games he has been allowed to play in to prove his worth. He has failed on each occasion and his inclusion in this squad is not justified. Delighted to see Fitzgerald in, though he deserved to start ahead of Monye last week. At least now McGeechan and Co realise that Monye was extremely overrated.

Yes but if James Hook is the answer, then what is the question?

Depp

marco_polo wrote: »

Nothing worth throwing toys out of the pram over.

hahaha brilliant.

Depp

also, where is "The Bull"

Otacon

Depp wrote: »

also, where is "The Bull"

Probably sunning himself and enjoying the rest of his holiday.