Dublin V Kilkenny

Mullet

More good news for the dublin hurlers on the run into the leinster hurling final. Ross O'Carroll played for the dublin intermediates tonight and by all accounts was very impressive. Ross is comming back to fitness after having his appendic's removed. For the record Kilkenny bet dublin 1-13 to 13 in nowlan park tonight.

The final will be in croke park and we will see the biggest crowd in years at a leinster hurling final "if the leinster council bother marketing the game" We all know marketing is a dirty word with the gaa as they just expect people to turn up. Another point to consider is if dublin win on sunday the gaa will expect us to fill croker for the following two sundays and I do not think everyone will be able to afford to go to all the games. considering the present economic climate.

grenache

I think it will take a few years of getting to Leinster Finals before the Dublin hurlers begin to attract the same level of support that their football counterparts have. I have no doubt that the die hard hurling fans will be in attendance along with the fair weather fans, if there was 60,000 at it i'd be more than impressed. Its great to see hurling in Dublin on the way back, there's a long traditon of the small ball game in the capital. Even if you look at their all Ireland tally of 6, they're the joint fifth most successful county after Kilkenny, Cork, Tipp and Limerick.

Drumpot

Im mainly a GAA Footie fan. Played it and been supportin the dubs since I can remember, but really enjoy the hurling.

Lets be honest, Dublin have little or no hope in this game.

If they can remain within 4 points of Kilkenny that will of been a success in my eyes. That said there is No harm in shooting for the stars and one would hope that they go into the game looking for the win . .

Its already been a great year for Dublin hurling and anything else on top of the leinster final will be a bonus. What is most important is that they continue to build on this season . . How many false dawns has there been in Dublin Hurling!

Mullet

Drumpot wrote: »

How many false dawns has there been in Dublin Hurling!

There has been to many false dawn up till now but theres a conveyer belt of young raw talent coming through so i hope we build on it. I see Rory ocarroll is starting for the footballers on sunday. What a pity i saw him play for the u21's against wexford in the leinster hurling semi at half back and i thought he was immense.

LeoB

Dublin have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. They have improved quite a bit and I would not right them off. If they get a good start they will give it a right lash. Well done to the people who have put so much into the game over the years.

flahavaj

Lets be realistic here, Dublin will do well to stay within 15 points of Kilkenny in this one. I really hope it doesn't turn out that way, but all recent evidence suggests that this will be the case. I just hope it doesn't shatter their confidence and they can give the quarter final a good lash afterwards.

If 40,000 showed up it would be an absolutely incredible achievement.

garbanzo

LeoB wrote: »

Dublin have nothing to lose and a lot to gain. They have improved quite a bit and I would not right them off. If they get a good start they will give it a right lash. Well done to the people who have put so much into the game over the years.

I hate to say it but we are focked !

It's a great achievement and hopfully it signals a return to good times for the hurlin' Dubs. I just hope it doesn't set us back years when the cats kick our arses up and down the field...for fun

LeoB

garbanzo wrote: »

I hate to say it but we are focked !
I just hope it doesn't set us back years when the cats kick our arses up and down the field...for fun

I dont think they will kick us up and down the pitch for fun. I think they will get a good game off Dublin. And while we may well lose it wont set us back years. A lot of current Dublin players have every reason to feel confident judging by underage results over the last number of years.

The mindset is changing.

Pride Fighter

flahavaj wrote: »

Lets be realistic here, Dublin will do well to stay within 15 points of Kilkenny in this one. I really hope it doesn't turn out that way, but all recent evidence suggests that this will be the case. I just hope it doesn't shatter their confidence and they can give the quarter final a good lash afterwards.

If 40,000 showed up it would be an absolutely incredible achievement.

Ok, I seem to remember Dublin beating the team that ran KK so close by 12 points in the league. Dublin wont win but they wont be beaten by more than 15 points. Most of the Dublin panel is used to giving Kilkenny a thumping at underage level, Wexford could never say that in the recent past.

blackbelt

Kilkenny won't run away with this for sure.I think they will win by 7 or 8 points maximum after a gruelling battle.Dublin will be up for this big time.As mentioned,the u-21s an minors have had success against Kilkenny in recent years and hopefully the same mental attitude prevails for us next Sunday week.

If McCrabbe is fit and James "Cha" is out injured,it wil make it all the more interesting and the game could swing on a factor like that.Even if we were to be hammered,I don't think it will set us back at all.This Dublin team has been coming for years and I don't think one result is going to destroy that should that occur.

I'm predicting a Kilkenny win due to the ability,skill,experience and mental toughness they have but we have been well known to make it extremely difficult for them.We could have and maybe should hav beaten them in their own backyard this year again and it is hinges like that that will give our lads a lot of confidence.

yahoo_moe

flahavaj wrote: »

all recent evidence suggests that this will be the case.

Obviously your definition of "recent" doesn't cover the league match in April where Kilkenny ran out winners by only 2 points in a hard-fought match then? And while there were one or two missing for KK then, Hickey and Fitzpatrick are far from certain to be back for the final.

Anyway, as blackbelt says, it'll take a lot more than 1 defeat to undo the years of good work that are now coming to fruition. Just as this Dublin team know that beating Wexford last week was only 1 game - it's nice but it doesn't change things greatly by itself, especially when you consider that Dublin could just as easily have gotten that result last year.

ibuprofen

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Obviously your definition of "recent" doesn't cover the league match in April where Kilkenny ran out winners by only 2 points in a hard-fought match then? And while there were one or two missing for KK then, Hickey and Fitzpatrick are far from certain to be back for the final.

Anyway, as blackbelt says, it'll take a lot more than 1 defeat to undo the years of good work that are now coming to fruition. Just as this Dublin team know that beating Wexford last week was only 1 game - it's nice but it doesn't change things greatly by itself, especially when you consider that Dublin could just as easily have gotten that result last year.

I'd expect a hard fought match with only a few points in it, personally getting to the final is amazing and I'm really happy about that, anything after would be an incredible bonus.

Dublin definitely deserve it and have announced themselves to the hurling world. Nice to see the u-21 team doing so well. Dublin hurling will definitley be around for a long while...:)

AMixedBag

Drumpot wrote: »

Im mainly a GAA Footie fan. Played it and been supportin the dubs since I can remember, but really enjoy the hurling.

Lets be honest, Dublin have little or no hope in this game.

If they can remain within 4 points of Kilkenny that will of been a success in my eyes. That said there is No harm in shooting for the stars and one would hope that they go into the game looking for the win . .

Its already been a great year for Dublin hurling and anything else on top of the leinster final will be a bonus. What is most important is that they continue to build on this season . . How many false dawns has there been in Dublin Hurling!

As a Dub, I thought you would have some beleif.
Anything is possible.....


Just not this.
.

enry

For those of you who have said Dublin will have a chance against Kilkenny, thank you, I needed a good laugh.

think i heard the samething from the waterford crowd last year

Erin Go Brath

enry wrote: »

For those of you who have said Dublin will have a chance against Kilkenny, thank you, I needed a good laugh.

think i heard the samething from the waterford crowd last year

Anything can happen in a 2 horse race, anything except a Dublin win that is. On a serious note Kilkenny (if they try) should win by 10 points minimum.

ibuprofen

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Anything can happen in a 2 horse race, anything except a Dublin win that is. On a serious note Kilkenny (if they try) should win by 10 points minimum.

Got a feeling Dublin could be the surprise package of this tournament. Whether they can beat the team that won the last three I can't say but in April Kilkenny won by only 2 points in a hard-fought match ... I'd expect more of the same....

In the leinster final, happy enough with that for this year.......:)

premierstone

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Ok, I seem to remember Dublin beating the team that ran KK so close by 12 points in the league. Dublin wont win but they wont be beaten by more than 15 points. Most of the Dublin panel is used to giving Kilkenny a thumping at underage level, Wexford could never say that in the recent past.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Obviously your definition of "recent" doesn't cover the league match in April where Kilkenny ran out winners by only 2 points in a hard-fought match then? And while there were one or two missing for KK then, Hickey and Fitzpatrick are far from certain to be back for the final.

Anyway, as blackbelt says, it'll take a lot more than 1 defeat to undo the years of good work that are now coming to fruition. Just as this Dublin team know that beating Wexford last week was only 1 game - it's nice but it doesn't change things greatly by itself, especially when you consider that Dublin could just as easily have gotten that result last year.

ibuprofen wrote: »

Got a feeling Dublin could be the surprise package of this tournament. Whether they can beat the team that won the last three I can't say but in April Kilkenny won by only 2 points in a hard-fought match ... I'd expect more of the same....

In the leinster final, happy enough with that for this year.......:)

First of all let me congratulate Dublin on a fantastic achievement and one that can only be off benefit to the game in general.

But seriously lads anyone that thinks Dublin are in a position as of this year to challenge the likes of KK are in cuckoo land not a hope in hell, I would imagine that the bookies will have the handicap spread somewhere between 15-20 points.

The reason I've quoted the three above posts is just to highlight to folks that there is believe or not quite a difference between a Leinster Final and a league game that meant very little to KK

Het-Field

As an avid Dubs fan, I can just see no chance for the Dubs. I believe it will be a +10 point reverse. As long as it doens go much higher then 10, I would be fairly satisfied. I base this on the fact that Kilkenny are simply awesome, and the championship is their showcase.

It reminds me of last year when Wexford fans began talking up thier chances of a Leinster Title in football last year. One decent season doesnt make a team, and as we have seen in 2009, Wexford Football is back in amongst the also rans. This could be a learning curve for the Dubs, and hopefully next year, the likes of Offaly, and or Wexford will be beaten again. However, until the Dubs start challanging the likes of Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford, and Galway, then Kilkenny will reamin a bridge too far.

aidan24326

I'd say Kilkenny by about 10-12 points. Realistically if Dublin can stay within 10 they will be doing well imo. But they should go into this game with the belief that they can win it, there's no use in teams being frightened of Kilkenny. Tipp in the league final and Galway last Saturday showed that KK aren't as invincible as we thought they were, and somebody will beat them sooner or later.

I doubt it will be Dublin in the Leinster Final, but if they can be competitive and give Kilkenny a good rattle it will give them alot of confidence that they're finally emerging as a serious team. Vital that they don't let Kilkenny get a run on them early on and go 7 or 8 points up in the first 10-15 mins, if that happens it could turn into a hammering. Keeping it tight for the first 20 minutes is crucial.

ibuprofen

Het-Field wrote: »

As an avid Dubs fan, I can just see no chance for the Dubs. I believe it will be a +10 point reverse. As long as it doens go much higher then 10, I would be fairly satisfied. I base this on the fact that Kilkenny are simply awesome, and the championship is their showcase.

It reminds me of last year when Wexford fans began talking up thier chances of a Leinster Title in football last year. One decent season doesnt make a team, and as we have seen in 2009, Wexford Football is back in amongst the also rans. This could be a learning curve for the Dubs, and hopefully next year, the likes of Offaly, and or Wexford will be beaten again. However, until the Dubs start challanging the likes of Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford, and Galway, then Kilkenny will reamin a bridge too far.

As long as Dublin give their all and play to the top of their abilities I'll be happy ...That's all you can ask of your team...
Getting into the final is good enough for me this year ...should take another year or two before we can become true contenders. The last few results at U-21 etc have showed Dublin has alot to offer for the next few years....
The championship will continue regardless of a win or a loss in the final..... Would love to see the Dubs taking on the Cork hurlers in a later match....it'd be a good one....:)

yahoo_moe

premierstone wrote: »

But seriously lads anyone that thinks Dublin are in a position as of this year to challenge the likes of KK are in cuckoo land not a hope in hell

Just to be clear, I don't think Dublin will win. And they might get beaten out the gate. But the previous post was claiming that there was no recent evidence to suggest anything except a 15-point win, which I don't agree with:

(1) League match or no league match, KK only won by 2 points against Dublin this year. But when they hammered Galway, Tipp, Clare and Cork in the four matches before that by between 11 and 27 points, they were praised to high heaven. As I said at the time, you can't have it both ways - do KK care about the league or not?
(2) KK in the last few years have peaked on the first Sunday in September. Yes, they've hockeyed Wexford in a few Leinster finals but their season is timed for the tilt at Liam every year and I don't think they're at full sharpness yet this year.
(3) KK have a few injuries to key players who they'd have liked to be feeding into the first team by now.

So while KK obviously have the ability to hammer Dublin, it's not a guarantee.

Flukey

We may not win, but our hurlers will get closer to Kilkenny than their footballers would to us. So, on aggregate, Dublin would win.

GymJim

Flukey wrote: »

We may not win, but our hurlers will get closer to Kilkenny than their footballers would to us. So, on aggregate, Dublin would win.

And Dublin would win overall because they've more blue on their jerseys

blackbelt

enry wrote: »

For those of you who have said Dublin will have a chance against Kilkenny, thank you, I needed a good laugh.
think i heard the samething from the waterford crowd last year

It is this type of attitude which pisses me off and is prevalent among a sizeable portion of Kilkenny supporters.Write Dublin off at your peril,we like it that way because many of the top teams have come away with their tails tucked between their legs after a loss to Dublin thinking that they were going to get a handy win.

While Kilkenny are the best team in the country,it is very disrespectful to laugh off and write off an emerging teams chances especially a Dublin team who were one of three teams to be able to push Kilkenny close this year.

In case you haven't noticed,we have some great players who have broken into the team such as Liam Rushe and Ross O Carroll.If we had a fully fit Ronan Fallon,McCrabbe and Dotsy O Callaghan we'd really be in with a chance.

I fully expect a Kilkenny win but I also go in hope that we can cause a huge shock and win.Kilkenny shouldn't get anything easy out of Dublin.If Dublin can stay within 5-7 points of Kilkenny,I challenge you to come onto this forum and revisit the above quoted post.

So by your reckoning,we should probably stay at home and not bother going to the game.:rolleyes:

ibuprofen

Flukey wrote: »

We may not win, but our hurlers will get closer to Kilkenny than their footballers would to us. So, on aggregate, Dublin would win.

Or..... if we win the next hurling match we could be on for the double this year....:D

Out of interest what counties if any are left that could also get the double.......Galway and Cork are gone.....

orourkeda

I dont think there are any. Maybe i'm wrong. Limerick and Cork are out of the MSHC. They play in the munster football final

robpurf

premierstone wrote: »

First of all let me congratulate Dublin on a fantastic achievement and one that can only be off benefit to the game in general.

But seriously lads anyone that thinks Dublin are in a position as of this year to challenge the likes of KK are in cuckoo land not a hope in hell, I would imagine that the bookies will have the handicap spread somewhere between 15-20 points.

The reason I've quoted the three above posts is just to highlight to folks that there is believe or not quite a difference between a Leinster Final and a league game that meant very little to KK

paddy power going kilkenny -12 at the minute

corny

Its sad to say this but this game revolves around KK. If they play with the intensity, at Croke Park lets not forget (experience counts for a lot), that we know the bring no team in country would run them really close IMO. Dublin should go out and leave nothing on the pitch. Whether that leaves them 5 points behind or 20 points behind is immaterial. Play your own game for the 70.

Having said all that after the 70 KK will be Leinster champions.

Orizio

blackbelt wrote: »

It is this type of attitude which pisses me off and is prevalent among a sizeable portion of Kilkenny supporters.Write Dublin off at your peril,we like it that way because many of the top teams have come away with their tails tucked between their legs after a loss to Dublin thinking that they were going to get a handy win.

While Kilkenny are the best team in the country,it is very disrespectful to laugh off and write off an emerging teams chances especially a Dublin team who were one of three teams to be able to push Kilkenny close this year.

In case you haven't noticed,we have some great players who have broken into the team such as Liam Rushe and Ross O Carroll.If we had a fully fit Ronan Fallon,McCrabbe and Dotsy O Callaghan we'd really be in with a chance.

I fully expect a Kilkenny win but I also go in hope that we can cause a huge shock and win.Kilkenny shouldn't get anything easy out of Dublin.If Dublin can stay within 5-7 points of Kilkenny,I challenge you to come onto this forum and revisit the above quoted post.

So by your reckoning,we should probably stay at home and not bother going to the game.:rolleyes:

The Kilkenny lads only travel to the All-Ireland Final (in Hurling obviously, they leave their footballers in the ****) BB.

grenache

orourkeda wrote: »

Limerick and Cork are out of the MSHC. They play in the munster football final

Thats right, here in Limerick we'll just have to settle for the one Munster trophy this year

ibuprofen

orourkeda wrote: »

I dont think there are any. Maybe i'm wrong. Limerick and Cork are out of the MSHC. They play in the munster football final

Yeah................. I think Dublin are the only ones left able to complete the double.....:D

btw Some high odds on paddy power for a winning margin bet for the leinster hurling final....

enry

blackbelt wrote: »

It is this type of attitude which pisses me off and is prevalent among a sizeable portion of Kilkenny supporters.Write Dublin off at your peril,we like it that way because many of the top teams have come away with their tails tucked between their legs after a loss to Dublin thinking that they were going to get a handy win.

While Kilkenny are the best team in the country,it is very disrespectful to laugh off and write off an emerging teams chances especially a Dublin team who were one of three teams to be able to push Kilkenny close this year.

In case you haven't noticed,we have some great players who have broken into the team such as Liam Rushe and Ross O Carroll.If we had a fully fit Ronan Fallon,McCrabbe and Dotsy O Callaghan we'd really be in with a chance.

I fully expect a Kilkenny win but I also go in hope that we can cause a huge shock and win.Kilkenny shouldn't get anything easy out of Dublin.If Dublin can stay within 5-7 points of Kilkenny,I challenge you to come onto this forum and revisit the above quoted post.

So by your reckoning,we should probably stay at home and not bother going to the game.:rolleyes:

well jack,

ill let the kilkenny hurlers do my talking. you dubs are full of hot air.

regards
enry

yahoo_moe

ibuprofen wrote: »

Out of interest what counties if any are left that could also get the double

Antrim can still do the provincial double too.

Often forgotten in the hooplah that surrounded the move to Leinster, but they got a bye all the way to the final of the Ulster Hurling Championship (the only one to see every county in the province compete, by the way).

blackbelt

enry wrote: »

blackbelt wrote: »

well jack,

ill let the kilkenny hurlers do my talking. you dubs are full of hot air.

regards
enry

Please do and I'll let the Dublin hurlers do my talking.Dublin won't be pushed around as you suggest.

C'MON DUBLIN !!!!

Benhonan

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Antrim can still do the provincial double too.

Often forgotten in the hooplah that surrounded the move to Leinster, but they got a bye all the way to the final of the Ulster Hurling Championship (the only one to see every county in the province compete, by the way).

For a given value of "compete"

ibuprofen

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Antrim can still do the provincial double too.

Often forgotten in the hooplah that surrounded the move to Leinster, but they got a bye all the way to the final of the Ulster Hurling Championship (the only one to see every county in the province compete, by the way).

True, a great year for Antrim......... Half way there..........
Good luck in the football final

Colm R

I'd love to go to this game. However I will be listening to it on the radio on my way back up from the Munster final.

AMixedBag

enry wrote: »

For those of you who have said Dublin will have a chance against Kilkenny, thank you, I needed a good laugh.

think i heard the samething from the waterford crowd last year

Ok, well all us GAA supporters can write off Dublin as much as we want but cmon, your from Kilkenny man! You just can't do that, wait until the end of the match to see who wins and THEN say all the crap you want because you never know, all these things you're saying could just come back in your face and hit ya. Dublin might end up winning and you would look like some fool then.
I'm telling you this for your own sake.

jape

aidan24326 wrote: »

I'd say Kilkenny by about 10-12 points. Realistically if Dublin can stay within 10 they will be doing well imo. But they should go into this game with the belief that they can win it, there's no use in teams being frightened of Kilkenny. Tipp in the league final and Galway last Saturday showed that KK aren't as invincible as we thought they were

If anything that Galway match showed how dangerous KK are. 4 points down with only 20 mins to go, and they continue to play as if they haven't a care in the world, scoring 9 consecutive points to win the match.

AMixedBag wrote:

Ok, well all us GAA supporters can write off Dublin as much as we want but cmon, your from Kilkenny man! You just can't do that, wait until the end of the match to see who wins and THEN say all the crap you want because you never know, all these things you're saying could just come back in your face and hit ya. Dublin might end up winning and you would look like some fool then.
I'm telling you this for your own sake.

You could argue the same about the Dubs believing they have even a slight chance of winning. The 2 teams are simply worlds apart in terms of skill, experience, strength and confidence. The score on sunday will prove this. Also read in the paper James Fitzpatrick is fit and will be playing. I'm gonna stick my neck out and predict something like:

Dublin 0-11 Kilkenny 3-20

AMixedBag

jape wrote: »

Dublin 0-11 Kilkenny 3-20

good luck with that. Wont be as bad as last years provincial final to be honest. 10 points max. Cmon, give the dubs a chance. To be honest though, you'd think that out of the million or so people living there that they could at least rake up a brilliant hurling team of 30.

jape

I know that is something that always surprises me, but having grown up in dublin, even in school (primary but especially secondary) it seems football is the more attractive option than hurling and more play that. No idea why though. It seems in Kilkenny it's the reverse.

enry

AMixedBag wrote: »

Ok, well all us GAA supporters can write off Dublin as much as we want but cmon, your from Kilkenny man! You just can't do that, wait until the end of the match to see who wins and THEN say all the crap you want because you never know, all these things you're saying could just come back in your face and hit ya. Dublin might end up winning and you would look like some fool then.
I'm telling you this for your own sake.

All I can say to that is the following:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

dublin will not beat kilkenny. FACT

plugitplayit

As a Dub living in Antrim there is a great buzz about at the minute!
I know a load of the Kilkenny and Dubs hurlers and the funny thing about it is both teams are just dying to play this. Kilkenny want to see what Dublin have to offer and Dublin want to measure themselves against the greats...! Hard to see the KK forwards not getting the better of our backs but interesting to see how the Dub forwards are handled by the All Star back lines...

Gutted I won't be in Croker for it should be a craicing atmos hopefully it is close.

AMixedBag

enry wrote: »

All I can say to that is the following:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

dublin will not beat kilkenny. FACT

ah, i never liked ye kilkenny supporters anyways. FACT.

Het-Field

enry wrote: »

All I can say to that is the following:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

dublin will not beat kilkenny. FACT

There is no need to gloat like that. Im on your side, but your being an ass.

run_Forrest_run

Orizio wrote: »

The Kilkenny lads only travel to the All-Ireland Final (in Hurling obviously, they leave their footballers in the ****) BB.

we'll ignore the football jest but don't you think your brush strokes are fairly broad there:rolleyes:

keep your eyes on the qualifiers and don't worry about the crowd attending the AI final.

Spiritoftheseventies

yes I thought he was very good at centre back for the under twenty ones but sometimes it a matter of having to juggle the team.

davestar

first of all . to make things clear i'm neither from dublin or kilkenny . i'm giving my opinion as a third party .fairplay to dublin this year , biggest improvement overall in either of the championships this year . i think anthony daly has done a brilliant job , surprisingly i'm quite happy to see the dublin hurlers pull through , giving the championship a new competitive edge , hats off to them .

now , i guarantee everybodys heart outside kilkenny says dublin , but what does your head say ?can dublin(a form team who have bet dismal teams such as wexford) actually take the leinster title frm the cats . kilkenny breath , sleep , and eat hurling . they've been unbeatable for years . can dublin , a team who have only made their mark in the leinster championship this year really . can they beat kilkenny who practically own this title?i don't think so .

cruiserweight

Some people need to learn a little bit about dignity based on some of the stuff that is being spouted. Wexford dismal, Dublin crap etc. I believe that Kilkenny will win the game on Sunday, with a bit to spare, but I do not understand the enjoyment that someone gets from going on about other teams being crap, we are going to kick your ass, gloating etc. There is a place for enjoyable banter, but not gloating and/or trolling

Spiritoftheseventies

great to see Dublin in the final. Hurlers an extremely dedicated bunch

yahoo_moe

jape wrote: »

If anything that Galway match showed how dangerous KK are.

No, no and no again. Yes, it showed that they don't give up and how hard it is to beat them (ie push home a winning advantage) but it mainly showed that they're not invincible.

Putting Galway, Clare, Cork and Tipp out of sight in the league by between 11 and 27 points each showed how dangerous KK are - being run close by Dublin in the league, Tipp in the league final and Galway in the semi-final showed that they don't hockey everyone all of the time.

dublin will not beat kilkenny. FACT

i guarantee everybodys heart outside kilkenny says dublin

That's where you're both missing the point - nobody is saying Dublin will win and I think everyone's said they'll probably lose. But they have a chance, based on a lot of things, and have an even better chance of giving Kilkenny something like a game. If they don't, fine, but it won't change the fact that they had a chance.

davestar wrote:

they've been unbeatable for years

Funny that, you should probably tell Waterford their league win earlier this year has been overturned.