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"Half rule" hp agreement

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12467…13

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  • Options
    #92
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    They are keen.


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    #93
    Waterserpent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Waterserpent


    Hi all,

    I am planning on utilising the half rule as I have moved to France and as of yet have been unable to find a full time job. Therefore I cannot keep up my payments. Can someone confirm my figures based on the example from 'It's your money' website:

    Cash price of car: 22,000
    trade in: 4,000
    deposit: 3,000
    hire purchase price: 15,000
    interest: 3,000 or there abouts

    So total HP Price is 18,000 (rounded)

    So under the half rule per the IYM website I take the 18,000 which is the TOTAL HP price /2 = 9,000

    Less amounts paid so far:

    9 installments of 300: 2,700
    Deposit: 3,000
    Trade in: 4,000

    Total paid so far: 9,700


    Therefore I can just hand back the car with nothing owing.

    Thanks


  • Options
    #94
    Donkey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Donkey101


    Hi Waterserpent,

    First thing is check your HP contract to see if it states a 1/2 Price amount. (mine did)

    Based on your figures, your HP is for €15000 plus interest, which you've put at €3000. Assuming that its a 5 year term, thats €300 x 60 months = €18,000, giving you a 1/2 price amount of €9,000, less €2700 already paid, leaving a shortfall of €6300.

    You didnt finance the trade-in amount (€4000) nor the cash deposit (€3000). Your HP appears to be based on the balance €15000 (€22000 less €7000 leaving €15,000).


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    #95
    Waterserpent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Waterserpent


    Thanks Donkey for the quick reply!

    I will check the HP agreement later this evenint but for the moment I'm still a little confused! Please take a look at the below excerpts from 'it's your money'. It's seems to be saying you add back in any deposit and/or trade in, I have highlighted that in red.
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Taken from the leaflet entitled "Car Finance" by the Financial Regulator[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][/FONT]

    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]"The following is an example of how[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]the usual charges will add to the cost[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]of buying a car on hire purchase.[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Joe picks a car that costs [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]13,300 from a motor[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]dealer. The dealer arranges a five-year hire-purchase[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]plan for Joe, and asks for a deposit of [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]400.[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]The real cost of Joe’s car is the[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]hire-purchase price of [FONT=EuroSans-Bold, sans-serif]€[/FONT]16 ,39 0.69[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Cash price [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]13,300.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](This is the cost of the car if Joe[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]was paying cash.)[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Less: [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Deposit or part exchange – [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]400.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](1) Amount for finance [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]12,900.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](2) [/FONT]Plus: [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Interest charge + [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]3,355.20[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Total [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]16,255.20[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Plus: [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Fees[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](3) Documentation fee + [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]72.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](4) Completion fee + [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]63.49[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Hire-purchase price[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif](1)+(2)+(3)+(4) [FONT=EuroSans-Bold, sans-serif]€[/FONT]16 ,39 0.69[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Joe must pay back the amount for finance plus the[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]interest ([/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]16,255.20) in 60 instalments of [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]€[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]270.92.[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]He must pay the documentation fee with his first[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]payment and the completion fee with his last[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]payment."[/FONT]






    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]"Half rule: [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]To end an agreement, you must let your[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]lender know in writing that you are ending it under[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]the half rule. Having ended the agreement, you must[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]pay half the hire-purchase price, less any payments[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]you have made to date (including any deposit you[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]paid), and return the car.[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]The example below shows how this might[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]affect Joe if he ends his hire-purchase[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]agreement after two years, or after three[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]years.[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](1) Half the hire-purchase price of[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]16,390.69 = [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]8,195.35[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Less: [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Amounts paid off to date:[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]25 payments of [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]270.92 [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]6,773.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Deposit +[/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]400.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Documentation (or set-up) fee +[/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]72.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif](2) Total paid so far [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]7,245.00[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Amount Joe still owes (1) - (2)[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]([/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]8,195.35 less [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]7,245.00): [/FONT][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]950.35[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif]Month 25 : [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]Joe sends his lender written notice[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]to end the agreement and arranges to give back[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]the car. If he ends the agreement in month 25, Joe[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]will have to give back the car. He will owe an extra[/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Bold, sans-serif][FONT=EuroSans-Regular, sans-serif]x[/FONT][FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]950.35 to bring his payments up to half the[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=FoundrySans-Normal, sans-serif]hire-purchase price."[/FONT]

    So going by the above my figures work out or am I missing something?

    Thanks again.


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    #96
    Donkey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Donkey101


    I'm not sure really (its difficult to say, but if your example is correct - I have done your figures versus JOES.

    Joe You
    Cash Price €13,300.00 €22,000.00
    Deposit €400.00 €7,000.00 (trade in + Deposit)
    Finance Amount €12,900.00 €15,000.00
    Interest €3,355.20 €3,000.00
    Total Financed €16,255.20 €18,000.00
    Document Fee €72.00 €0.00
    Completion Fee €63.49 €0.00
    Total Hire Price €16,390.69 €18,000.00
    Monthly Repay €270.92 €300.00
    1/2 Price Amount €8,195.35 €9,000.00
    Less Money repaid
    Monthly Repay €6,773.00 €2,700.00
    Deposit €400.00 €7,000.00
    Doc Fee €72.00 €0.00
    Sub Total €7,245.00 €9,700.00
    Shortfall €950.35 €0.00


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    #97
    Waterserpent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Waterserpent


    @ Donkey Thanks again for your reply. I think we get the same result if we follow the example.

    Can someone who has recently handed back a car under the half rule confirm this.

    cheers everyone.


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    #98
    bigdogbarking
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭bigdogbarking


    Hi guys, i'm sorry for repeating the same questions over and over but it just seems too good to be true and could easily solve some of my financial woes.(all caused because i was caught up in the hysteria, and believed that we were all rich!!!!) lessons learned the hard way methinks?
    anyway,

    total hp price was/is 41797
    so under the half rule i need to have paid 20989.50?
    I just got a settlement figure from PTSB for 25890,
    so do i just have to pay 5000 to be able to hand the car back?

    Also i lowered payments for 6 months which obviously extended my agreement , does that matter or is the settlement figure inclusive any extra interest?

    Thanks guys


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    #99
    s982102
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭s982102


    Hi everyone,
    Firstly,thanks for all the information given in this forum.
    I understand Half-rule a bit more now.

    I have a quick question if you don't mind. on what standard does the lender check the car?According to one of the guys said earlier, it seems like they can send a bill with any amount of money that they want. Can they check the car and then I fix it by my own--I mean I find someone to repair it? OR do I have to pay them to repair?

    The back door of my car was hit by a human--believe or not.And there are some small scratches around the car.Should I fix it myself before hand it to the bank?I am a bit worrying about after I get it done by myself I still get a big bill from them.

    Please anyone can help me.
    Thanks.


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    #100
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,336 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    This thread should be stickied - it makes it worthwhile to buy a new Alfa :-)


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    #101
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    :rolleyes::eek: Is there any wonder this country is fuc£ed . Enjoy playing the big shot did you. Look at me Beemer. Maybe if you had bought the car your budget could afford in the first place ( along with all the other numptys who bought into the " This is gonna last forever" Bull$hit ) like a 3 year old Micra then we wouldnt have the holes in the economy that we have. Good man, responsible living and all that. :confused:

    Assumptions are great are they not. I decided to get out of the agreement as the finance was a waste of money. Bought a new car cash after that. Thanks for your concern with my budget though.


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    #102
    testicle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭testicle


    Can the Lender hold back on the letter of termination until they have sold the car?


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    #103
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    They can try it on. The agreement is terminated once the money is paid and they take possession of the car.


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    #104
    Donkey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Donkey101


    To Kanana,

    What did you do with the report from the garage?
    Did you give a copy to the people who collected the car?
    Or did you keep it as a safe guard in case they tried to bill you for repairs that werent required.?

    Thanks


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    #105
    Donkey101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Donkey101


    Can someone clarify something for me please.

    I sent a cheque & letter stating the following:

    'I am hereby informing you that, under the "Half Rule" as per the Hire Purchase Act of 1946, I am returning my vehicle. The stated ½ Hire Purchase Price as per my Agreement is €xxx.xx. I have made payments of €bbb.bbb as of 5th January 2010. I am enclosing a cheque for the difference to the value of €ccccc.00.
    Please note that this is not a voluntary surrender and I will not be signing any document to that effect. Please contact me at 0x-xxxxxx so that we can discuss a mutually agreeable date, time and location for the return of the vehicle.'

    Today, I get a letter in the post, requesting that I complete the following & return.

    I XXXXXX agree to surrender the above vehicle to (Financial institution).
    I am aware that by signing this document i am handing over my vehicle and am not liable for any further costs.

    signed .....MY NAME.

    Should i sign this? Is my original letter (in blue above) sufficient?
    Can the letter in RED be constrewed as a 'Voluntary Surrender'?

    I am considering ringing the company tomorrow & telling them, that as per my original letter, I will not be signing any further documentation regarding the return of the car.

    Comments please.

    Thanks.


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    #106
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Can the letter in RED be constrewed as a 'Voluntary Surrender'?
    YES! Do not sign it under any circumstances.


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    #107
    s982102
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭s982102


    Donkey101 wrote: »
    Can someone clarify something for me please.

    I sent a cheque & letter stating the following:

    'I am hereby informing you that, under the "Half Rule" as per the Hire Purchase Act of 1946, I am returning my vehicle. The stated ½ Hire Purchase Price as per my Agreement is €xxx.xx. I have made payments of €bbb.bbb as of 5th January 2010. I am enclosing a cheque for the difference to the value of €ccccc.00.
    Please note that this is not a voluntary surrender and I will not be signing any document to that effect. Please contact me at 0x-xxxxxx so that we can discuss a mutually agreeable date, time and location for the return of the vehicle.'

    Today, I get a letter in the post, requesting that I complete the following & return.

    I XXXXXX agree to surrender the above vehicle to (Financial institution).
    I am aware that by signing this document i am handing over my vehicle and am not liable for any further costs.

    signed .....MY NAME.

    Should i sign this? Is my original letter (in blue above) sufficient?
    Can the letter in RED be constrewed as a 'Voluntary Surrender'?

    I am considering ringing the company tomorrow & telling them, that as per my original letter, I will not be signing any further documentation regarding the return of the car.

    Comments please.

    Thanks.
    Same thing happened to me two days ago as well.I called the phone number of itsyourmoney.ie for advice.The girl said to me not to sign any letter for the bank.What you need to do is just send a letter which you have done and ask where you can give the car back.That's all.You should call your bank or lender and tell them you are not going to sign anything.
    I hope this helps.


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    #108
    Ginny
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    I'm planning on doing this in 1 or 2 months, Who takes your car back is it the lending institute, or the car dealer you bought from?
    And are there any adverse repercussions for the dealer you bought from?


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    #109
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    :rolleyes::eek: Is there any wonder this country is fuc£ed . Enjoy playing the big shot did you. Look at me Beemer. Maybe if you had bought the car your budget could afford in the first place ( along with all the other numptys who bought into the " This is gonna last forever" Bull$hit ) like a 3 year old Micra then we wouldnt have the holes in the economy that we have. Good man, responsible living and all that. :confused:

    Dont be a idiot. If you have paid half of a 30k car and now its worth less than 10k thanks to massive depreciation why wouldn't you return it and save 5k. Off and buy another car and benefit from the lower costs. We all bailed out the bank so let them take the depreciation. Its not being savy about these matters that got us into these problems. Also HP agreements tend to be more expensive, so you paid for the right to take advantage of the few benefits there are from this type of agreement.


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    #110
    the bigsliothar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭the bigsliothar


    hi ,could anybody help?what way am i fixed if i return a jeep on the half rule that has some trailer damage to the back of the jeep but the jeep was bought at a reduced rate with the damage in the first place


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    #111
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    the bigsliothar wrote: »
    hi ,could anybody help?what way am i fixed if i return a jeep on the half rule that has some trailer damage to the back of the jeep but the jeep was bought at a reduced rate with the damage in the first place

    Unless there is a record of the damage prior to sale I imagine they will take it, have it fixed, and bill you for the amount.

    If that's how it's to be, I suggest you have it repaired yourself, as it's far more cost effective (usually).


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    #112
    Djdukey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Djdukey


    Hi,

    I just rang BOS to cancel my agreement for my car. I owe €16000 and the car is worth about €10000, pushing it.

    They told me Ill have to sign a volutary agreement form for them to auction the car, and also said this will not effect my credit rating and i will not be liable for any more payments. This is obviously false yes?

    Im waiting for a callback. Just wondering though:

    a) Should I get my mechanic to write a letter stating there is no damage to it? Engine is ok?

    b) There is a small hole in the rear seat (like a cig burn hole)... ill have to pay to get that fixed will i?

    c) When I write the letter and send it to them, should i immediately cancel my DD? Will I have any problems with AIB cancelling this?

    Thanks


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    #113
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    They told me Ill have to sign a volutary agreement form for them to auction the car, and also said this will not effect my credit rating and i will not be liable for any more payments. This is obviously false yes?
    Totally false. Do not sign a voluntary surrender form. It will destroy your credit.
    c) When I write the letter and send it to them, should i immediately cancel my DD? Will I have any problems with AIB cancelling this?
    AIB should do it without question. If they ask why, tell them it is none of their business.


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    #114
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Also, just confirm a ) you're on an HP Agreement and b ) you've paid 50% already.


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    #115
    djayforza
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭djayforza


    fair play to all who have used tyhis rule i have just read the whole thread and well its a great loophole. the banks caused the mess and now all the HP contracts can just be cancelled i love it. power to the people


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    #116
    Djdukey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Djdukey


    Mena wrote: »
    Also, just confirm a ) you're on an HP Agreement and b ) you've paid 50% already.

    Yes Im on a HP agreement. I actually saw this thread a few months ago and rang up to see when i would reach half the loan. The girl was really nice and said in Feb, and that there would be no problem doing the Half rule.

    When I rang today the girl said what i posted above and told me that I still have another 2 or 3 payments, but she couldnt be sure so I have to ring back to speak to someone else.

    Ill see how I get on tomorrow.

    Just wondering, If I write the letter, and then the next day cancel the DD, and the payment doesn't come out (because i have cancelled it) will BOS mark it as a missed payment? Im wondering should I write the letter and wait a week or two and then cancel it. I dont want to over pay either.

    @djayforza: yes it is great that we can use this rule. Unfortunately there are people who cant or not near there half way point. Its a joke to be honest, they bailed out the banks and let the arse fall out of the car market (by not reducing prices/vrt)

    My car is a 07 car, If someone could afford to buy my car why would they? when the could by an 08 for a little more money but save on tax.


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    #117
    savic04
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭savic04


    paid off my car in 08.... wish i didnt bother now !


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    #118
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,336 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    On the other side of the coin - does it make sense to take advantage of this rule to take a car out on HP and return under the half rule after half the payments have been made?


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    #119
    beardo81
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭beardo81


    No other options left for me, couple of K off half the amount and cant even afford to lower the payments, looks like I gotta sign the VSF :(.

    Gonna get screwed at auction :mad:


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    #120
    Forest Master
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Great thread - thanks guys, especially Bond-007.

    Just one quick question: I'll be ringing BOS tomorrow to hand my car back under half-rule. I've paid 3yrs off a 4yr HP agreement, and they have already told me I'm eligible when I enquired a few weeks back. Got a new car today, so ready to action this tomorrow!

    Anyway - my question is: I know people keep saying it won't affect your credit rating, but will there be a "VS" (or similar) on my credit rating for all to see, even if I sign nothing?
    I ask because even if the loan is shown as "complete" but there is still a "V" or a "VS" beside it when someone does a credit check, it might as well be a bad credit rating, as it's still information that's visible for anyone to see what I did!
    So can anyone confirm what exactly someone will see when they do a credit check on me, assuming I hand the car back without signing anything?

    And should I ask them if they want a mechanics report done before they collect? The car is in perfect condition, and I don't want them trying to claim otherwise after collection.


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    #121
    Forest Master
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    :rolleyes::eek: Is there any wonder this country is fuc£ed . Enjoy playing the big shot did you. Look at me Beemer. Maybe if you had bought the car your budget could afford in the first place ( along with all the other numptys who bought into the " This is gonna last forever" Bull$hit ) like a 3 year old Micra then we wouldnt have the holes in the economy that we have. Good man, responsible living and all that. :confused:

    :rolleyes:


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