How could I have done this?

LegacyUser

So... I'm going unreg for this..

My boyfriend and I have been together for 7 years. We love each other very much, and we plan to get engaged in the next year or so.

For a couple of those 7 years we split up, mainly because he wanted to go travelling and I didn't - felt kinda pushed into it, also because he was my first boyfriend and I was starting to get scared of what it would mean to end up marrying my very first.

He left to go travelling, I was supposed to follow him a few months later. I began to have more and more doubts, I began to dread the idea of going. Nothing could get me excited about it, although I did feign it to myself and others... Then, I got drunk one night and ended up at a houseparty, and fell asleep with 2 friends, a girl and guy. The guy was coming on to me, I felt uncomfortable with it (although I had been flirting earlier in the evening) and the girl took him into another room to let me sleep.

The next morning in my half sleep I found myself kissing someone, and then fully woke up to the realisation I was having sex. I stopped.

The guy had got into bed with me and started ... and I had responded. I told him it was a mistake, I regretted it, I explained I hadn't really been awake.

But I knew that this was a huge warning bell for my relationship, how could this have happened? I was gobsmacked at myself.
So I rang him, and explained I couldn't go through with meeting him to go travelling. Gave him a lot of other valid reasons. I never told him I had slept with someone else. We broke up.

Now, this guy I cheated on him with? After I had broken up with my bf, I ended up sleeping with him once or twice when I was extremely wasted - but in full knowledge of what I was doing, I am still friends with him, see him like a brother these days.

So then? After a couple of years the original OH came home, we were just friends for a while, and then fell totally back in love with each other.

And the guilt of what I did is driving me crazy. I can't tell him, mainly because it would hurt him so much, and destroy his trust in me, also because I feel it would be selfish - just assuaging my own guilt, and lastly because I am selfish, and I don't want to be distrusted.
I love him so much, and I hate having this horrible secret from him.

Sorry, not sure what my question is.

finbarrk

Well if you were apart from him for 2 years I doubt that he expected you to remain celibate for that length of time. I doubt if he did either.
You should say nothing about it and move on. You didn't do too much wrong anyway.

madbev90210

Is the secret what happened? Or who it happened with? I mean, theres a good chance he slept with other people on his travels! Have you asked him? Also, was it just this one guy you slept with when broke up with your partner? If so, your doing well!

Dont feel guilty, you'se werent together and no ones perfect. Ye have lived apart and have been brought back together again, perhaps for a reason, look forward to the future. but if its eating you up yhat much, I know id have to talk about it and start with a clean slate.

Good luck

kmart6

No reason to feel guilty unless ye were actually still going out when you slept with the other guy! No other need to feel guilty about it!

LegacyUser

Sorry, i wasnt clear.

He went away, i was to follow him. After a month or two (we were still together, but long distance) I ended up sleeping with this guy. A day or two later I rang my bf in NZ to break up. I never went to meet him on his travels. We maintained our friendship while he was away, and rekindled the relationship when he came back.

Whatever about the boyfriend - if I woke up to find someone having sex with me while I was too drunk to even feel it, I'd be calling the guards.

Joey the lips

I am not sure either but it apears you do have a problem with drink. This is where I would start!

RossFixxxed

She woke up TO THE FACT. As in she slipped into it with a few drinks, AWARE of what she was doing. This does not seem to be an assault scenario, rather a swept away moment.

I'd lay off the drink. Look if you don't want to be with the guy, then just keep it broken up. Get away from them both and look after yourself. You're not meant to dread being with someone!

LegacyUser

OP, hate to tell you but I doubt your OH was a monk while travelling. Relax and stop worrying.

petethebrick

No big deal at all OP. That's what happpens a lot when couples go their separate ways for periods of time. You've nothing to feel guilty about in my opinion^^

happyfriday

Ok so you made a mistake while drunk with the other guy but then you broke up with your boyfriend (I'm sure guilt aswell as the fear of commitment helped in that decision) I think by breaking up with him after sleeping with someone else you did the totally correct thing but it’s been 2 years down the line, that’s a long time ago, things change and now it sounds like you are ready to totally commit. You have nothing to feel guilty about.

RossFixxxed

RossFixxxed wrote: »

She woke up TO THE FACT. As in she slipped into it with a few drinks, AWARE of what she was doing. This does not seem to be an assault scenario, rather a swept away moment.

I'd lay off the drink. Look if you don't want to be with the guy, then just keep it broken up. Get away from them both and look after yourself. You're not meant to dread being with someone!

I read it as she was literally half asleep after drinking loads. If you don't fully realise you're having sex, you're too drunk/out of it to be doing it. She said she had felt uncomfortable with the guy, he had gone to another room and sneaked into hers during the night. If I even woke up to find a guy beside me in bed, uninvited, I'd hit the roof.

LegacyUser

Can never understand the whole 'I had too much to drink' reasoning.

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];60844375]I read it as she was literally half asleep after drinking loads. If you don't fully realise you're having sex, you're too drunk/out of it to be doing it. She said she had felt uncomfortable with the guy, he had gone to another room and sneaked into hers during the night. If I even woke up to find a guy beside me in bed, uninvited, I'd hit the roof.[/QUOTE]

i agree. this totally sounds like rape to me.
maybe the OP could clarify this (i.e. at what point did she realise someone was there in her bed? was it just the kissing? or had it moved beyond that?)

Sinall

[quote=[Deleted User];60844375]I read it as she was literally half asleep after drinking loads. If you don't fully realise you're having sex, you're too drunk/out of it to be doing it. She said she had felt uncomfortable with the guy, he had gone to another room and sneaked into hers during the night. If I even woke up to find a guy beside me in bed, uninvited, I'd hit the roof.[/quote]

This is how I read it too. They went to sleep in separate beds (after he had previously been hitting on her and she didn't reciprocate) and then she woke up to find him in the bed with her and realised they were actually having sex....

I would be pretty shocked if that happened to me. And pretty angry too.

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, thanks for your comments.

I suppose half of me wants to just forget it. To be honest I had, I suppose it comes back to haunt me in the middle of the night sometimes.

The guy I slept with, sigh, I dunno. He's a nice guy, and he apologised to me a million times about what happened... I don't really know why he got into bed with me... you know that half-awake, half-still dreaming in the morning feeling? I don't remember him starting to kiss me, I just woke up to it and I had been responding in my half sleep.

The part I feel bad about is responding at all. And not stopping it. And never telling my bf.

I guess this guilt is just what I'll always have to feel... I don't know, I think maybe for the sake of honesty I should tell him. I know about his own small indiscrepancy... he has the right to know about mine?

By the way, this all happened *before* we broke up. A month or two after he left, but at the time he was expecting me to follow him. In the couple of years he was away we both were with other people and thats grand... Just this one was while we were still together.

Jesus, I just hate that I could be the person who cheats, and hurts a good person. I feel like, if I could do it, I who love him so absolutely, couldn't anyone do it to anyone?

Astrogeek

I really don't think you cheated. If I told my boyfriend what happened to you, happened to me, he wouldn't be angry at me, he will kill the other guy.

Oh The Humanity

OP, you are beating yourself up about not much at all. To an unhealthy degree. You sound slightly obsessed with the episode.

Put it out of your mind and move on.

Your boyfriend possibly did stuff too while he was away so stop worrying, its water under the bridge.

OP I think it's said sometimes that people who were assaulted can often blame themselves for it to an unhealthy degree. Perhaps you should, even once or twice, talk to a professional about what happened. If you'd forgotten about it and moved on I wouldn't say this, but since you're so obsessed with it and guilting yourself about it, I really feel it would be best if you should talk to someone.
Needless to say, someone sneaking into your room and doing that to you while you're incapacitated AND asleep is absolutely criminal and should have been report. Reacting in your sleep (god, you could even have thought it was your bf if you weren't awake, and that's why you were responding) and stopping it as soon as you become aware isn't "cheating."

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for your comments.

I suppose half of me wants to just forget it. To be honest I had, I suppose it comes back to haunt me in the middle of the night sometimes.

The guy I slept with, sigh, I dunno. He's a nice guy, and he apologised to me a million times about what happened... I don't really know why he got into bed with me... you know that half-awake, half-still dreaming in the morning feeling? I don't remember him starting to kiss me, I just woke up to it and I had been responding in my half sleep.

The part I feel bad about is responding at all. And not stopping it. And never telling my bf.

I guess this guilt is just what I'll always have to feel... I don't know, I think maybe for the sake of honesty I should tell him. I know about his own small indiscrepancy... he has the right to know about mine?

By the way, this all happened *before* we broke up. A month or two after he left, but at the time he was expecting me to follow him. In the couple of years he was away we both were with other people and thats grand... Just this one was while we were still together.

Jesus, I just hate that I could be the person who cheats, and hurts a good person. I feel like, if I could do it, I who love him so absolutely, couldn't anyone do it to anyone?

Sorry but a guy getting into bed with you without invitation and proceeding to have sex with you while you're asleep is rape. No matter how much of a 'nice guy' he paints himself as.

LegacyUser

hi everyone...

I can't tell you what its like to hear people say that what happened isn't all my fault... I guess if it wasn't that this was a good looking affable guy, and I was at a party amongst all his friends, (who are all my own close friends now) I would feel more like it was done to me than I let it happen....

I'm not a stupid girl, I can hear myself say it was my fault, I led him on, and think that this is what someone who was asaulted by a friend might say.

I guess I maybe I did flirt, but I never intended for what happened to happen. I did not make moves to even kiss this guy. And maybe I spent too much time reassuring him (and myself I suppose) that what happened was ok, so that I wouldn't think about the consequences of it NOT being ok.

I suppose it might sound like I'm consumed by it... I'm not really, it's just very recently I've had these ... flushes of guilt in the night about it. I am in the process of trying to find 'someone to talk to' about other things, so I'll talk to that person about this.

I still think I might tell my boyfriend, but I'll hold my horses on that one for a little while.

Thanks so much to everyone. Sometimes I suppose, you just need to get something off your chest.

LegacyUser

Sounds to me like you were sexually assualted, couldn't come to terms with the idea and slept with the guy again to reassure yourself that you consented. Being smashed on all occasions says a lot about how you felt about his guy and yourself. I seriously think you should seek some professional advice on this one, not for the sake of your EX who went travelling, but for yourself. You have to come to terms with the fact that the worst thing you did on the night was getting drunk, what happened while you were asleep is rape and your reaction to it is denial of the fact that it was rape. Just because you smile and make eyes at a guy doesn't give him the right to climb into your bed while you're asleep and proceed to rape you.

Don't share this with your ex, because being a guy I know I'd find it very hard not to confront the man who assualted you. Talk to a professional, I'm sure someone else posting here will post up contact details of the some organisations who can help you get counselling. It's unlikely at this stage you can get a prosecution but at least you may be able to get peace of mind about your own actions and feel less of a dependence on alcohol to blank it all out.

VaioCruiser

Unregistered wrote: »

The guy I slept with, sigh, I dunno. He's a nice guy, and he apologised to me a million times about what happened... I don't really know why he got into bed with me... you know that half-awake, half-still dreaming in the morning feeling? I don't remember him starting to kiss me, I just woke up to it and I had been responding in my half sleep.

The part I feel bad about is responding at all. And not stopping it.

Looks to me like you have dealt with it in a very mature way. It takes two in this kind of confused situation.

Jesus, I just hate that I could be the person who cheats, and hurts a good person. I feel like, if I could do it, I who love him so absolutely, couldn't anyone do it to anyone?

I just don't buy into the obsession with judgment, OP. We make mistakes. What matters is what we do afterward. Do we learn. Do we change. Don't be beating yourself up about it.

Take the experience and use it to make you a better person.

all the best

bSlick

[quote=[Deleted User];60853085]Sorry but a guy getting into bed with you without invitation and proceeding to have sex with you while you're asleep is rape. No matter how much of a 'nice guy' he paints himself as.[/quote]

You are changing the story (where did she say she was fully asleep?) and the point you are making in your postst is a load of nonsense, half the one night stands that occur out there these days happen when one or both parties are so locked/hungover that they are not fully aware of it, can't remember it 100% clearly, or sometimes can't even remember it at all. The OP wasn't fully asleep, as she says herself she was half asleep or "half awake, half still dreaming in the morning feeling", a common feeling after someone's been drinking. She wouldn't have been operating at 100% clarity of thought but with 95% of one night stands out there either both or one of the participants are in the exact same situation because they have drink taken. There is a world of difference between having drunken hazy sex with someone and getting raped in your sleep.

The guy got in beside her and rather than telling him to leave she starts kissing him, then proceeds to have sex with him, and you call that rape? If your definition of rape was considered the standard you'd have half the country locked up in mountjoy.

It is outrageous to suggest that the op has been raped when she was kissing the guy, had sex with him and then when she told him to stop, he stopped. That's not rape, and it's an insult to girls who have actually been raped to suggest it is.

bSlick

bSlick wrote: »

You are changing the story (where did she say she was fully asleep?) and the point you are making in your postst is a load of nonsense, half the one night stands that occur out there these days happen when one or both parties are so locked/hungover that they are not fully aware of it, can't remember it 100% clearly, or sometimes can't even remember it at all. The OP wasn't fully asleep, as she says herself she was half asleep or "half awake, half still dreaming in the morning feeling", a common feeling after someone's been drinking. She wouldn't have been operating at 100% clarity of thought but with 95% of one night stands out there either both or one of the participants are in the exact same situation because they have drink taken. There is a world of difference between having drunken hazy sex with someone and getting raped in your sleep.

The guy got in beside her and rather than telling him to leave she starts kissing him, then proceeds to have sex with him, and you call that rape? If your definition of rape was considered the standard you'd have half the country locked up in mountjoy.

It is outrageous to suggest that the op has been raped when she was kissing the guy, had sex with him and then when she told him to stop, he stopped. That's not rape, and it's an insult to girls who have actually been raped to suggest it is.

Read the post! She went to bed, he went to a different room and she woke up to find herself having sex with him! What do you think rape is? Do you think you have to be grabbed by a knife wielding stranger in the street? There is a world of difference between going to bed WITH someone and sleeping with them while drunk and going to bed alone and waking up in the morning with a guy in your bed, a guy you have never been with before and 'may' have flirted with during the evening. She wasn't even awake enough to realise what she was doing! If he had been equally drunk, he would have also been passed out in bed, not coming into her room, getting into her bed and having sex with her while she was too drunk to consent.

Sinall

IMO, going to sleep on your own and then waking up to find somebody already having sex with you is not consensual. That's my reading of what happened.

To the OP, it sounds like this is really worrying you. Try to let the idea of cheating go. Getting in touch with a support group or similar might be of benefit to you.

bSlick

[quote=[Deleted User];60857766]Read the post! She went to bed, he went to a different room and she woke up to find herself having sex with him! What do you think rape is? Do you think you have to be grabbed by a knife wielding stranger in the street? There is a world of difference between going to bed WITH someone and sleeping with them while drunk and going to bed alone and waking up in the morning with a guy in your bed, a guy you have never been with before and 'may' have flirted with during the evening. She wasn't even awake enough to realise what she was doing! If he had been equally drunk, he would have also been passed out in bed, not coming into her room, getting into her bed and having sex with her while she was too drunk to consent.[/quote]

You read the post. Because you are incorrect when you say she woke up to find herself having sex with him. She says she 'fully woke up to the realisation i was having sex', not that she literally woke up from a sleep state. She firstly describes herself as half asleep, which by default means she was half awake. :rolleyes: Then she also describes it as being "half awake, half still dreaming in the morning feeling". So she wasn't unconscious, therefore she wasn't asleep. It's a standard state of consciousness for someone who's been drinking the night before.

And as I said, if there were laws against having drunken hazy one night stand sex whilst being half awake, half asleep you'd have half the country locked up in mountjoy. Tons of people up and down the country are having one night stands every weekend and can't even remember what they did or how it starteed alot of the time, they were so out of it. Are you actually trying to say that it is automatically rape if a women has sex that she can't fully remember it because she was drunk? Because that is ludicrous, especially with the culture in Ireland today where lots of women actually go out and get drunk and aim to have sex at the end of the night.

So what if he got into her bed, she wasn't asleep, she didn't tell him to go, instead she started kissing him and had sex with him. It would be a different story is she was actually ASLEEP and didnt give consent, that's straight up rape. But she wasn't asleep, her mind was hazy from the drink but she was conscious and was a willing participant until such time as she decided and when she asked him to stop, he stopped.

bSlick

Sinall wrote: »

IMO, going to sleep on your own and then waking up to find somebody already having sex with you is not consensual.

I agree, but she WAS NOT ASLEEP. She says so twice herself. It would be great if people would read the posts and not start making up stuff.

Sinall

bSlick wrote: »

I agree, but she WAS NOT ASLEEP. She says so twice herself. It would be great if people would read the posts and not start making up stuff.

I have read the posts. And as I said in my previous post, my opinion was based on my understanding of what she said. It seems that we have different understandings.

Either way, she did not invite this guy into her bed. It sounds to me (again based on my reading of the posts) that he arrived in unannounced and started making moves on her. She didn't say that she remembers him getting into the bed, just that when she woke up he was there and that something was going on.

We are dragging this off topic and I don't see how this is helpful to the OP. Sorry OP.

petethebrick

Em - the OP obviously didn't think it was an assault or rape or any of that - she says she shagged him a few times again after that.

bSlick

Sinall wrote: »

I have read the posts. And as I said in my previous post, my opinion was based on my understanding of what she said. It seems that we have different understandings.

Well I pointed out the parts where she referred to her state of consciousness and it was plain obvious the she was not unconscious. Why don't you take those same sentences/phrases I quoted and explain how how came to the conclusion that she was not conscious. Because you won't be able to.

Either way, she did not invite this guy into her bed. It sounds to me (again based on my reading of the posts) that he arrived in unannounced and started making moves on her. She didn't say that she remembers him getting into the bed, just that when she woke up he was there and that something was going on.

Your right, it's called making a move, romantic encounters don't usually start with a legal contract, one or both parties make a move and the other either is up for it or not. In this case he got into bed with her, and rather than telling him to leave she was kissing him and had sex with him, so I think that can be counted as consent.

And she never said she woke up (from a sleeping state) and he was there as you put. That makes him sound like some kind of pervert. As I pointed out she said she was in a 'half awake, half still dreaming' and then that she 'fully woke up to the realization she was having sex'. Basically your standard hazy drunken one stand encounter.

Sinall

petethebrick wrote: »

Em - the OP obviously didn't think it was an assault or rape or any of that - she says she shagged him a few times again after that.

None of us know exactly what happened as we weren't there, but the guy involved apologised to her a few times for what happened. It can be hard to come to terms with it if you do feel that there was something wrong with what happened and it could be that she was with him again as a means of convincing herself that all was above board.

VaioCruiser

bSlick wrote: »

leep.

The guy got in beside her and rather than telling him to leave she starts kissing him, then proceeds to have sex with him, and you call that rape? If your definition of rape was considered the standard you'd have half the country locked up in mountjoy.

It is outrageous to suggest that the op has been raped when she was kissing the guy, had sex with him and then when she told him to stop, he stopped. That's not rape, and it's an insult to girls who have actually been raped to suggest it is.

100% right. Some people appear to have some sort of pathological need to judge and condemn and slate.

It's tough enough being a young guy dating these days. Bombarded with all of the politically correct do's and don'ts of relationships, and risking being accused of rape in the most ridiculous circumstances.

All the best.

And as I said, if there were laws against having drunken hazy one night stand sex whilst being half awake, half asleep you'd have half the country locked up in mountjoy. Tons of people up and down the country are having one night stands every weekend and can't even remember what they did or how it starteed alot of the time, they were so out of it. Are you actually trying to say that it is automatically rape if a women has sex that she can't fully remember it because she was drunk? Because that is ludicrous, especially with the culture in Ireland today where lots of women actually go out and get drunk and aim to have sex at the end of the night.

Actually yes, if a woman is 'extremely' drunk, enough to be out of it, it is considered rape. What point are you making here with the one night stands? Those people choose to go home with someone to have sex with them. This woman went to sleep ON HER OWN and woke up to find this guy in her bed having sex with her.

So what if he got into her bed, she wasn't asleep, she didn't tell him to go, instead she started kissing him and had sex with him. It would be a different story is she was actually ASLEEP and didnt give consent, that's straight up rape. But she wasn't asleep, her mind was hazy from the drink but she was conscious and was a willing participant until such time as she decided and when she asked him to stop, he stopped.

If she was so hazy she didn't cop on to the fact she was having sex with this guy, she might as well have been asleep. Are you trying to tell me the woman has to literally be unconscious to not consent? Or that if the guy stops when told to stop, it's all grand? I don't know what planet you're on, but on mine, a guy getting into bed with a girl uninvited and having sex with her while she's out of it drunk is AT BEST taking advantage of her. For God's sake, even my boyfriend wouldn't attempt to have sex with me while I was half asleep. I know exactly the hazy feeling after drinking too much, and in that state it is perfectly possible to get confused, not realise where you are and who is there. I stay at male friend's places all the time and if one of them climbed into bed with me, I'd hit the roof.

Jesus christ, some of the replies here are incredible.
She went to bed ALONE because she was UNCOMFORTABLE with this guy flirting with her.
She woke up to find him having sex with her and STOPPED it as soon as she woke up.
Calling his actions assault is absolutely accurate and to think people think it's just political correctness is sick.
No wonder a load of rapes go unreported with this attitude of "she must have wanted it sure", just because she didn't get beaten up for it doesn't mean it wasn't unwanted.
Will ye ever cop on to yourselves. If you lads woke up to find a guy having sex with you in the morning, when you'd went to bed alone, I sincerely doubt you'd be sitting there calmly going "well it was politically incorrect...".

VaioCruiser

This is where modern feminist extremism has gone absolutely crazy. women need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming men for their own actions. It's an excuse and a man hating abuse.
If you drive a car while drunk and kill someone... you are blamed by the law for being drunk in the first place. It's called taking responsibility.

LauraLoo

Hi OP

Its automatic reaction in the state of drunken sleep. You weren't thinking and weren't conscious. Whether you were half asleep or fully asleep- you weren't fully conscious. You did not make the conscious choice to sleep with him. You did not have conscientious sex with another person while with your boyf.

I think you should talk to a professional before you consider discussing it with the boyf. If you think you would like to tell your boyf, you need to figure out what happened and fully understand it yourself before you try to explain it to him.

VaioCruiser

VaioCruiser wrote: »

This is where modern feminist extremism has gone absolutely crazy. women need to take responsibility for their own actions

Happy to, as long as men do the same.
I'm glad to see you think extremism has gone crazy; next time you get drunk, perhaps you'll wake up with a strange unwanted guy, a guy you'd definitely said goodbye to the night before, having sex with you, and then you'll know the feeling.
Or maybe you think it's appropriate to sneak into the rooms of people who don't want you, and assault them while they're asleep, I don't know.

I'm starting to understand how these polls have such a high number of responses apportioning blame onto rape victims depending on what they were wearing etc :rolleyes:

So do you think any unconcious girl at a party is up for grabs then? For daring to fall asleep after drinking?

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

I got drunk one night and ended up at a houseparty, and fell asleep with 2 friends, a girl and guy. The guy was coming on to me, I felt uncomfortable with it (although I had been flirting earlier in the evening) and the girl took him into another room to let me sleep.

The next morning in my half sleep I found myself kissing someone, and then fully woke up to the realisation I was having sex. I stopped.

The guy had got into bed with me and started ... and I had responded. I told him it was a mistake, I regretted it, I explained I hadn't really been awake.

Now, this guy I cheated on him with? After I had broken up with my bf, I ended up sleeping with him once or twice when I was extremely wasted - but in full knowledge of what I was doing, I am still friends with him, see him like a brother these days.

Unregistered wrote: »

I suppose it comes back to haunt me in the middle of the night sometimes.

The guy I slept with, sigh, I dunno. He's a nice guy, and he apologised to me a million times about what happened... I don't really know why he got into bed with me... you know that half-awake, half-still dreaming in the morning feeling? I don't remember him starting to kiss me, I just woke up to it and I had been responding in my half sleep.

The part I feel bad about is responding at all. And not stopping it.

I guess this guilt is just what I'll always have to feel...

Unregistered wrote: »

I guess if it wasn't that this was a good looking affable guy, and I was at a party amongst all his friends, (who are all my own close friends now) I would feel more like it was done to me than I let it happen....

I'm not a stupid girl, I can hear myself say it was my fault, I led him on, and think that this is what someone who was asaulted by a friend might say.

I guess I maybe I did flirt, but I never intended for what happened to happen. I did not make moves to even kiss this guy. And maybe I spent too much time reassuring him (and myself I suppose) that what happened was ok, so that I wouldn't think about the consequences of it NOT being ok.

I read a discussion on consent recently which went something like ...

"If a man wants genuine sexual relations with a woman, does not wish to harm her but wants passionate sex with her but has misread signals or both parties are drunk and the man believes the woman 'wants it' - this is not rape, the man is not a rapist.

The problem arises because rapists take full advantage of a situation like this and will prey on vulnerable women who are drunk and make it look like the former case however they have already planned to rape the woman and don't give a damn whether she consents or not."

Entering a room where a woman is sleeping and proceeding to have sex with her is rape. This guy just "got away with it" because the OP didn't wake up screaming. She was confused because (aside from the fact that she was half-awake and possibly still drunk) she had responded in her sleep and stopped it when she realised what was happening and now feels guilty for responding in her sleep.

OP, I would strongly recommend you talk to someone professional about what happened rather than your boyfriend.

VaioCruiser

VaioCruiser wrote: »

This is where modern feminist extremism has gone absolutely crazy. women need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming men for their own actions. It's an excuse and a man hating abuse.
If you drive a car while drunk and kill someone... you are blamed by the law for being drunk in the first place. It's called taking responsibility.

Wow. Just wow.

It scares me that there are people walking around who think like this. A woman who drinks too much and is out of it is fair game for any fella who decides he fancies a ride? A woman who thinks she is safe tucked up in bed?

VaioCruiser

VaioCruiser wrote: »

This is where modern feminist extremism has gone absolutely crazy. women need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming men for their own actions. It's an excuse and a man hating abuse.
If you drive a car while drunk and kill someone... you are blamed by the law for being drunk in the first place. It's called taking responsibility.

And clearly if you're raped while drunk you are blamed for being drunk in the first place.

LegacyUser

Just my opinion here because only the OP and the man involved know what really happened.

Fair enough she was half asleep, but when a person is half asleep that is not always evident. The guy could have presumed that she was just a little tipsy. He probably said sorry afterwards because he didn't realise that she was half asleep.

As is so often said ''no means no''. She told him to stop and he did. If he was raping her he wouldn't have stopped. When she made it clear she wasn't interested he stopped. What else could the guy do? He most likely had drink consumed too so probably wasn't in a completely clear state of mind either.

If girls can say ''I wasn't thinking clearly because I was drunk'', why can't lads? I'm not saying that being drunk is an excuse for raping someone or that a drunk person is at fault if they are raped, but the OP wasn't passed out, she wasn't asleep, she responded when he kissed her and started having sex with him. The OP hasn't said that she felt used or abused or anything like that. We are all just trying to blame the man here.

And ya, I'm a girl. If the same thing happened to me I would feel a bit ashamed because I had cheated on my boyfriend. That said, she was half asleep. But again, to play devil's advocate, if a guy came home to you and said ''I'm really sorry, I was drunk and half asleep and when I fully woke up I found there was a girl on top of me having sex with me...but I stopped her'', how many of you would honestly say that he was raped?

bSlick

[quote=[Deleted User];60865487]Actually yes, if a woman is 'extremely' drunk, enough to be out of it, it is considered rape.
[/quote]
She wasn't 'out of it', she says herself she was half awake, half still dreaming, so she wasn't passed out from the drink. And she says she responded to him, as opposed to telling him to leave. That is consent in anyone's book.

This woman went to sleep ON HER OWN and woke up to find this guy in her bed having sex with her.

She said she was half asleep, half awake, therefore NOT ASLEEP.

If she was so hazy she didn't cop on to the fact she was having sex with this guy, she might as well have been asleep.

No, if she was asleep it was rape. She was hazy and she responded to this guy and was kissing him, then had sex with him.

Are you trying to tell me the woman has to literally be unconscious to not consent?

Wtf, are you implying that any woman who is very drunk and proceeds to have sex without full clarity of mind can then say they were raped? Cos in that case we better build a few new jails for the hundreds of rapists that have sex with drunken women every weekend.

If she is unconscious/asleep, she hasn't consented. If she is not asleep and says 'no I dont want to have sex', she hasn't consented. But if, as in the op's case, she is NOT ASLEEP and has not told the guy to stop it is of course consent.

Or that if the guy stops when told to stop, it's all grand?

Yeah, it is grand, because it was consent up until she told him to stop. She says herself she was half awake, therefore not asleep, when they started having sex so the option to say no was always there. And in the end she decided she wanted to stop and he stopped. What exactly is the problem.


Can we just clear it up once and for all that she WAS NOT ASLEEP and it is ludicrous to suggest that when a guy has sex with someone who responds and is up for it, that the guy could then be considered a rapist because the girl was drunk. That is madness. Most one night stands happen when people have serious amounts of alcohol taken. As I said there are lots of girls having drunken sex every weekend, they often can't remember it, but they are well up for it and go out looking for it. If we took your logic Luciano Chubby Shuffleboard, every guy that had sex with one of these girls could be considered a rapist, because even though these women are up for it they are obviously going to be very hazy like with the OP.

The only way it's rape is if the girl says no or if the guy starts having sex with her while she is asleep. Having sex with a girl who is not asleep, who is hazy from drink and who responds to your advances and is kissing you is not rape.

Oh my God. She DID tell him to leave. As soon as she had the clarity of mind to do so. You do not have to actually be asleep or unconscious to be too drunk to consent to sex. Interesting that to you half asleep/hazy = awake. To me it means you're either too tired or have taken too much of a substance to be able to function properly or make proper decisions.

Wtf, are you implying that any woman who is very drunk and proceeds to have sex without full clarity of mind can then say they were raped?

I'd say any woman who was drunk and went to bed alone, to wake up to someone having sex with them, uninvited can say they were raped, yes. What do you think rape IS, exactly? There is an enormous difference between being drunk and bringing a guy home with the intention of having sex and having a guy sneak into your bed while you are asleep. I find your attitude disturbing and sick, to be honest. Not only do we have to worry when out in town, in taxis and in clubs but also apparently when in bed, we are fair game.

As another poster has said, imagine you were at a party, drank too much and passed out on the couch, then woke up to realise a man you'd talked to earlier in the evening and said goodnight to, was having sex with you. Would you say you consented to that? Would you feel that you deserved it because you got drunk? I'd like to see an answer to this. Because it's oh so easy for a man to say 'she asked for it' - try putting yourself in the same situation. This thread is frankly depressing.

LegacyUser

Oh please, give me a break, this has nothing to do with feminist extremists it has to do with common decency towards others. I'm sure many of the posters here who feel it's rape are male. It's as simple as this, if the girl was drunk, in bed alone and asleep and you proceed to climb into her bed uninvited, start kissing her, she responds in her sleep and you then proceed to have sex with her without her realising who you are or what is actually going on then it is rape.
If she is drunk, invites you into her bed, starts kissing and you have sex and then she realises it is a big drunken mistake then it's not rape because there was invitation to participate in the act with her. You don't need a written contract to have sex, but someone must be in a position to invite another to be with them.
bslick, put yourself in the OPs position, if it had been you, you fall a sleep in a drunken state in bed, feel someone kissing you later and you responded thinking in your sleep it could be your girlfriend and then wake only to find some guy making an entry through your rear door would you really consider you had consented to that.

If what you describe is not considered rape then there's literally no hope for any girl out there who is foolish enough to drink herself unconscious, you're saying any randy guy has every right to just jump on her.

The point here is simple, she was raped, she blamed herself for responding, wanted to validate in her own mind that it was not rape by getting into semi-relationship with him after the event. The OP needs to discuss this with a counsellor.

bSlick

[quote=[Deleted User];60869395]Oh my God. She DID tell him to leave. As soon as she had the clarity of mind to do so. You do not have to actually be asleep or unconscious to be too drunk to consent to sex.
[/quote]

What's the oh my god for, she told him to stop and he stopped. I think the thing about rapists is that they don't stop when asked.

And I don't know what planet you are living on but with a huge amount of the one night stands that go on out there the girls are hammered drunk, in a far worse way than the op. And they have sex. Because they want to. And they can't even remember it sometimes. And the guys they are having sex with don't ask for written confirmation of consent before they get down to business. This is the way one night stands happen in the real world.

Interesting that to you half asleep/hazy = awake. To me it means you're either too tired or have taken too much of a substance to be able to function properly or make proper decisions.

Half asleep means she was half awake, ie NOT ASLEEP. If you are in a drink induced haze and you have sex in a situation where you would not have done it sober well then you have to take responsibility for that. It's common knowledge that people will kiss or have sex with people they normally wouldn't or in situations they normally wouldn't because they are drunk. You don't go calling someone a rapist because you had drunken sex that you regret. That is despicable behaviour.

I'd say any woman who was drunk and went to bed alone, to wake up to someone having sex with them, uninvited can say they were raped, yes.

Yes you are correct, that is rape. However that is not what happend in the op's case. She wasn't asleep and she responded when he got into bed with her by kissing him, leading to full blown sex. And he stopped when she asked. If she had've said no the minute he got into the bed he would've obvsiously left as the guy is not a rapist. A rapist doesn't stop in the middle of raping someone when someone asks them to.

What do you think rape IS, exactly? There is an enormous difference between being drunk and bringing a guy home with the intention of having sex and having a guy sneak into your bed while you are asleep.

I think you are the one who has a serious misunderstanding of the concept of rape. For god sake, she said herself a few times, that she WAS NOT ASLEEP. So why do you keep saying she was? The op was at a party with this guy and said she was flirting with him earlier in the evening. She was drunk, he came into her room, got into her bed, she started kissing him, started having sex with him, then her conscience got the better of her and she asked to him to stop, which he did. That is standard one night stand stuff, not a hint of rape. Its actually laughable to try and paint that as rape.

I find your attitude disturbing and sick, to be honest. Not only do we have to worry when out in town, in taxis and in clubs but also apparently when in bed, we are fair game.

"We are fair game"...talk about a victim mentality. No wonder you can't wait to cry rape, it's now obvious that you are just an 'all men are evil' type, just a standard man hater. None of my female friends would come out with a line like 'we are fair game'.

As another poster has said, imagine you were at a party, drank too much and passed out on the couch, then woke up to realise a man you'd talked to earlier in the evening and said goodnight to, was having sex with you. Would you say you consented to that? Would you feel that you deserved it because you got drunk? I'd like to see an answer to this.

If a man got into my bed while I was half asleep/in a drunken haze as the op was I would tell him straight away to 'F**K OFF'. No two ways about it. Did the op tell the guy in her case to f off or to stop? No she started kissing him and had sex with him which means she consented.

Can you stop saying she was asleep now that we've established multiple times that she wasn't. I'm sicking of repeating myself. And I thought rape was supposed to be a harrowing soul destroying crime?? In the op's case it never even crossed her mind that she was raped, in fact she seems to quite like the guy, meeting up with him a few more times and calling a nice guy. To call the op's situation rape is an insult to anyone who has actually been raped.

What's the oh my god for, she told him to stop and he stopped. I think the thing about rapists is that they don't stop when asked.

Who says? Is there a written Guide for Rapists I haven't seen?

And I don't know what planet you are living on but with a huge amount of the one night stands that go on out there the girls are hammered drunk, in a far worse way than the op. And they have sex. Because they want to. And they can't even remember it sometimes. And the guys they are having sex with don't ask for written confirmation of consent before they get down to business. This is the way one night stands happen in the real world.

BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. Get it? They voluntarily go home with the man. They don't go to sleep ALONE and wake up with a stranger on top of them!

Yes you are correct, that is rape. However that is not what happend in the op's case. She wasn't asleep and she responded when he got into bed with her by kissing him, leading to full blown sex. And he stopped when she asked. If she had've said no the minute he got into the bed he would've obvsiously left as the guy is not a rapist. A rapist doesn't stop in the middle of raping someone when someone asks them to.

As many people have already said, when in a confused/drunken state, it's very easy to confuse someone for your boyfriend/girlfriend. Don't you get this? She did not realise she was with this particular man! I don't know where you're getting these 'facts' about rapists from. Of course they can stop because someone asks them to. The 'rape' part is putting a penis into a vagina either against the woman's will or while she is too incapacitated to stop it. Whether or not the man 'finishes' is totally irrelevant.

"We are fair game"...talk about a victim mentality. No wonder you can't wait to cry rape, it's now obvious that you are just an 'all men are evil' type, just a standard man hater. None of my female friends would come out with a line like 'we are fair game'.

A victim mentality? There are several 'men' on this thread stating that getting into sleeping woman's bed and starting to have sex with her is A-OK. That she should have had more sense than to get drunk. Forgive me for being a bit disturbed by this. I would never normally say it either - none of my male friends are sick enough to think this situation is OK.

If a man got into my bed while I was half asleep/in a drunken haze as the op was I would tell him straight away to 'F**K OFF'. No two ways about it. Did the op tell the guy in her case to f off or to stop? No she started kissing him and had sex with him which means she consented.

And what if you were too out of it to realise what was going on? It is perfectly plausible, happens all the time.

Can you stop saying she was asleep now that we've established multiple times that she wasn't. I'm sicking of repeating myself. And I thought rape was supposed to be a harrowing soul destroying crime?? In the op's case it never even crossed her mind that she was raped, in fact she seems to quite like the guy, meeting up with him a few more times and calling a nice guy. To call the op's situation rape is an insult to anyone who has actually been raped.

I'm sick of repeating myself, it's like talking to a brick wall. Your ignorance about rape and sexual assault is absolutely shocking. How dare you declare what is and isn't considered rape? It is very, very common for rape victims to blame themselves or convince themselves that it was consensual because the stigma of being a rape victim is so difficult to deal with. I can only assume from your posts that you have absolutely no knowledge of experience of this issue. And FYI - I HATE women who cry rape because they regret a sexual encounter. There's nothing worse. But in this case, from the facts we have been given, the OP would be 100% justified.

bSlick

[quote=[Deleted User];60871600]
BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. Get it? They voluntarily go home with the man. They don't go to sleep ALONE and wake up with a stranger on top of them!
[/quote]
As in the ops case alot of these one night stands happen at parties. And the op WASNT ASLEEP. HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID.

As many people have already said, when in a confused/drunken state, it's very easy to confuse someone for your boyfriend/girlfriend. Don't you get this? She did not realise she was with this particular man!

She never said she confused him for her boyfriend. She never even implied it. You are completely making up facts to suit yourself now. The actual facts are her morals and inhibitions were lowered because of the drink. And there is nothing strange about that, drink has been the cause of lots of people cheating on their partners, people who would never think of doing it otherwise.

I don't know where you're getting these 'facts' about rapists from. Of course they can stop because someone asks them to. The 'rape' part is putting a penis into a vagina either against the woman's will or while she is too incapacitated to stop it. Whether or not the man 'finishes' is totally irrelevant.

It wasn't against her will. She had no problems with but then after a while decided she didn't want to continue so they stopped. She also wasn't incapacitated, she was in a drunken haze, she wasn't unconscious or asleep. So it wasn't against her will and she wasn't incapacitated, can you tell me exactly how you figure it if rape?

A victim mentality? There are several 'men' on this thread stating that getting into sleeping woman's bed and starting to have sex with her is A-OK. That she should have had more sense than to get drunk. Forgive me for being a bit disturbed by this. I would never normally say it either - none of my male friends are sick enough to think this situation is OK.

I have said multiple times that having sex with a woman who is asleep is rape. But as Ive also said multiple times, SHE WAS NOT ASLEEP. Can you PLEASE STOP SAYING SHE WAS ASLEEP WHEN SHE SAYS HERSELF SEVERAL TIMES THAT SHE WASNT.

And no-one said 'she should have more sense than to get drunk'....your bringing your own feminist agenda into this thread. No-one was making the point that because she was drunk she was asking for it...why are you even bringing that up, trying to change this issue into something its not?

And what if you were too out of it to realise what was going on? It is perfectly plausible, happens all the time.

If I was even 1% consious there is no way I would be engaging in sexual relations with a man. And the op was far more than 1% conscious, she was in a standard morning after drunken haze, its not like she had been plied with rohypnol.

I'm sick of repeating myself, it's like talking to a brick wall. Your ignorance about rape and sexual assault is absolutely shocking. How dare you declare what is and isn't considered rape?

You keep repeating yourself because you keep overlooking the point that SHE WASNT ASLEEP. I gave my definition of rape earlier, here it is - "The only way it's rape is if the girl says no or if the guy starts having sex with her while she is asleep. Having sex with a girl who is not asleep, who is hazy from drink and who responds to your advances and is kissing you is not rape."

Do you disagree with that statement?

It is very, very common for rape victims to blame themselves or convince themselves that it was consensual because the stigma of being a rape victim is so difficult to deal with. I can only assume from your posts that you have absolutely no knowledge of experience of this issue. And FYI - I HATE women who cry rape because they regret a sexual encounter. There's nothing worse. But in this case, from the facts we have been given, the OP would be 100% justified.

You are blowing the whole this whole one night stand way way out of proportion. "Stigma of being a rape victim"....for god sake come off it, it was a one night stand that she regretted. Big deal.

As she said in her op "I ended up sleeping with him once or twice when I was extremely wasted - but in full knowledge of what I was doing, I am still friends with him, see him like a brother these days." Yea sure but you know better, to you the OP is obviously blaming herself subconsciouly for getting raped because her poor little mind knows no better. :rolleyes: Talk about patronising.

DUBLINHITMAN

thats rape if ever i heard it ,

VaioCruiser

bSlick wrote: »

....to you the OP is obviously blaming herself subconsciouly for getting raped because her poor little mind knows no better. :rolleyes: Talk about patronising.

Absolutely right.

I suspect we might be seeing some flaming-baiting her to be honest. The utter nonsense being posted is just too appallingly nonsensical for it to be justified by the OP's own story.

The thread is going nowhere and I would like to suggest to the Moderators to close it off .... with respect.