discount on new cars

BlueBlueBlue

Hi All,
I am in the process of buying a new car.
Due to the changes in the taxation I am thinking of buying a brand new one with an A rating.
I am doing a cash deal not trade in.
What % discount should I be looking for?
I have never bought a car before so I am pretty clueless.
Thanks
B

Owen

Discount is relative. What manufacturer are you looking at? And are you trading in? If you are, don't bother your head about discounts, it's your cost to change you should be examining.

Gumbo

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Discount is relative. What manufacturer are you looking at? And are you trading in? If you are, don't bother your head about discounts, it's your cost to change you should be examining.

he said he is not trading in, cash purchase.

OP, all depends on what car your buying tbh.
have you any details on the car yoir looking at?

BlueBlueBlue

Peugeot 207 1.4 HDI

R.O.R

BlueBlueBlue wrote: »

Peugeot 207 1.4 HDI

Looks like €1,500 - €1,800 is about all you'd get off one of them.

Owen

kceire wrote: »

he said he is not trading in, cash purchase.

Mondaymorningitis. Sorry!

Drummerboy08

R.O.R wrote: »

Looks like €1,500 - €1,800 is about all you'd get off one of them.

Aye, that sounds about right.

glaston

Is it true that you can get more of a discount if you get finance from the dealer? Cause they get a cut from the finance institution or somtin??

Not suggesting you get finance tho, interest would probably cancel out any discount.

Gumbo

glaston wrote: »

Is it true that you can get more of a discount if you get finance from the dealer? Cause they get a cut from the finance institution or somtin??

Not suggesting you get finance tho, interest would probably cancel out any discount.

what if he got the finance to get the extra discount, then maybe 2 months in paid off the finance with his cash.

would that work?

Drummerboy08

He'd still have to pay the settlement figure though, which would more than cancel out the extra discount.

sparklepants

As far as I recall Peugeot were offering €3000 off some new cars earlier in the year. The offer was available up to March and they extended it into April afaik. If it were me I would push to get the offer that was available on the 207 earlier this year. A discount of €1500 on a new car in today's market doesn't seem great, particularly when you consider that the dealer doesn't have to handle a trade-in and he's probably only selling you a car that's already in stock in Ireland. Remember that it's up to you, the customer, to decide what's an appropriate discount. Don't take a dealer's view of what a going rate for a cash discount is.

glaston wrote: »

Is it true that you can get more of a discount if you get finance from the dealer? Cause they get a cut from the finance institution or somtin??

Not suggesting you get finance tho, interest would probably cancel out any discount.

I wouldn't be a fan of that approach - it can mudddy the waters such that you don't really know what discount you're getting. It reminds me of when I toyed with the idea of buying a new car earlier in the year. I spoke with an Opel dealer who told me about their 0% finance offer. When I said I was interested he told me that he would have to substantially reduce the discount he could offer in order to cover the cost of the finance offer. His justification was that all offers come at a cost to Opel. But it kinda makes a joke of the offer if they give with one hand and take away with the other.

BrianD3

Renault Megane 1.5 DCi is in tax band A and has a 3 year warranty, there was recently a "scrappage" discount of 3000 + whatever you negotiated from the dealer. This seems to have finished however the next special offer is probably not far away.

R.O.R

sparklepants wrote: »

A discount of €1500 on a new car in today's market doesn't seem great, particularly when you consider that the dealer doesn't have to handle a trade-in and he's probably only selling you a car that's already in stock in Ireland.

9-11% discount doesn't sound good to you? Sounds OK to me.

What people have to remember is that the dealer only has a certain margin and isn't going to sell a car to anyone at a loss. If Gallic Distributors are giving addiotional support to dealers enabling further "scrappage" deals then that's in addition to what the dealer has to offer themselves.

OP, unless there are special deals going on from the manufacturer / distibutor then you are unlikely to get much more than €1,500 - despite what some people think.

-Chris-

sparklepants wrote: »

As far as I recall Peugeot were offering €3000 off some new cars earlier in the year. The offer was available up to March and they extended it into April afaik. If it were me I would push to get the offer that was available on the 207 earlier this year. A discount of €1500 on a new car in today's market doesn't seem great, particularly when you consider that the dealer doesn't have to handle a trade-in and he's probably only selling you a car that's already in stock in Ireland. Remember that it's up to you, the customer, to decide what's an appropriate discount. Don't take a dealer's view of what a going rate for a cash discount is.

So your advice is to make up a level of discount and then hold the dealer to it?

Two things:
a) the less desirable the car, the greater the discount. The manufacturers will incentivise particular cars for a number of reasons. That includes being old model, being disadvantaged by the new tax regime or being in stock for too long.
b) the best way to get a car for the cheapest price is to go to three dealers and try and try to buy same the car from each of them. The one giving you the best price is the one to buy the car from.

sparklepants wrote: »

His justification was that all offers come at a cost to Opel. But it kinda makes a joke of the offer if they give with one hand and take away with the other.

My dad always told me "there's no such thing as a free lunch".

sparklepants

R.O.R wrote: »

9-11% discount doesn't sound good to you? Sounds OK to me.

Fine. As I said, It's up to the buyer to decide what rate of discount he finds acceptable.

What people have to remember is that the dealer only has a certain margin and isn't going to sell a car to anyone at a loss. If Gallic Distributors are giving addiotional support to dealers enabling further "scrappage" deals then that's in addition to what the dealer has to offer themselves.

Now imagine applying the same logic when buying a new house in today's market - The builder wants his margin and won't want to sell the house at a loss, so I should ignore the fact that house prices have dropped by 30-50% and be happy to take a 9% discount!

Nearly all assets have suffered a severe drop in value over the last 18 months- houses, land, stocks & shares. Why should new cars be any different? It's perfectly conceivable that a dealer or distributer would sell a car that's in stock at a loss. Many cash starved business would sooner offload existing stocks at a loss than not make a sale. Any dealer who believes that he's going to make a profit on every transaction is a fool.

OP, unless there are special deals going on from the manufacturer / distibutor then you are unlikely to get much more than €1,500 - despite what some people think.

As a buyer, I really wouldn't care less whether it was the dealer, the distributer or the manufacturer that was offering the discount. All that would matter would be the net price. Therefore I would hold out for that "special deal" that you mention.

Drummerboy08

Hey Sparklepants, meet my friend, Dave the car salesman. He's willing to do any deal you offer....;)

sparklepants

-Chris- wrote: »

So your advice is to make up a level of discount and then hold the dealer to it?

My approach would be to try to get the dealer to improve his offer.

laycolayco

I got a €4500 discount from a salesman off a new Nissan Qashqai. I didnt even ask him for a discount! He says by giving the discount the customers just keep hearing about it and coming to him and apparently he is selling up to 5 new Qashqais every week. The funny thing is that he is a Mitsubishi Dealer just north of swords and he is beating the Nissan Dealers prices! Would defo recommend him!

Skyuser

laycolayco wrote: »

I got a €4500 discount from a salesman off a new Nissan Qashqai. I didnt even ask him for a discount! He says by giving the discount the customers just keep hearing about it and coming to him and apparently he is selling up to 5 new Qashqais every week. The funny thing is that he is a Mitsubishi Dealer just north of swords and he is beating the Nissan Dealers prices! Would defo recommend him!

What model Qashqai, petrol or diesel.

gpjordanf1

laycolayco wrote: »

I got a €4500 discount from a salesman off a new Nissan Qashqai. I didnt even ask him for a discount! He says by giving the discount the customers just keep hearing about it and coming to him and apparently he is selling up to 5 new Qashqais every week. The funny thing is that he is a Mitsubishi Dealer just north of swords and he is beating the Nissan Dealers prices! Would defo recommend him!

Go to an independent dealer, they can offer bigger discounts on any new car they sell, the Main dealers cant.

P.C.

sparklepants wrote: »

Fine. As I said, It's up to the buyer to decide what rate of discount he finds acceptable.
Now imagine applying the same logic when buying a new house in today's market - The builder wants his margin and won't want to sell the house at a loss, so I should ignore the fact that house prices have dropped by 30-50% and be happy to take a 9% discount!

Nearly all assets have suffered a severe drop in value over the last 18 months- houses, land, stocks & shares. Why should new cars be any different? It's perfectly conceivable that a dealer or distributer would sell a car that's in stock at a loss. Many cash starved business would sooner offload existing stocks at a loss than not make a sale. Any dealer who believes that he's going to make a profit on every transaction is a fool.

As a buyer, I really wouldn't care less whether it was the dealer, the distributer or the manufacturer that was offering the discount. All that would matter would be the net price. Therefore I would hold out for that "special deal" that you mention.

Yip, I have been selling €10 notes for €5 all week - doing a great trade. :rolleyes:

Why would any business sell anything for a loss?

And I can tell you that most of the 'fools' are out of business.
The remaining ones are still around for a reason.

beggars_bush

well its like hotels not selling rooms for €75 b&b. once that night is over they cannot sell that room on that date again. They are as well to sell the room at €50 and get something for it

same logic with cars. better to sell something today, make a small loss than have it on stock and depreciating in the yard and thinking about the profit you're going to make on it.

surely a business is all about cashflow. making a profit is worried about at end of the year?

or maybe i'm just an idiot.

Saab Ed

sparklepants wrote: »

As far as I recall Peugeot were offering €3000 off some new cars earlier in the year. The offer was available up to March and they extended it into April afaik. If it were me I would push to get the offer that was available on the 207 earlier this year. A discount of €1500 on a new car in today's market doesn't seem great, particularly when you consider that the dealer doesn't have to handle a trade-in and he's probably only selling you a car that's already in stock in Ireland. Remember that it's up to you, the customer, to decide what's an appropriate discount. Don't take a dealer's view of what a going rate for a cash discount is.

All bets are off with the manufacturers theses days. The offers earlier in the year were more to do with cash flow than selling numbers. Same with all the stuff that came from the UK late last year and very early this year. They had yards of stuff unsold and very poor cashflow ( these things affect huge multi national companies too). Now most of the stock is sold, the money is back in the account ,companies just arent making cars at the moment and local distributors are ordering none. So you see although it seems to the ordinary punter that now is the time that there should be a big sales incentive push on its actually the opposite thats happening. No point spending money on adds and promos when the return is poor and making cars just to park them in a field. And dealers dont want to order something for you unless its in stock and paid for ( in which case you should get a great deal ) because there's not much point in buying in another car just to take your trade in. Flip side of the coin is that there are no second hands around and this is driving the price of used cars up. So you see in a time when the customer should really be in control , unless you fall into a specific customer type i.e buying dealer stock with no trade in or trading in a car thats very sellable then really the dealer doesnt want to see you until next year. PS . I've said it here before, best way to get a good deal out off a salesman is just be nice. Trying it on pretending you know what you're talking about and playing hard ball just gets our tails up and all the salesmen I know will always go for a kill on these people.:D Just be nice. We're human too

P.C.

P.C. wrote: »

Yip, I have been selling €10 notes for €5 all week - doing a great trade. :rolleyes:

beggars_bush wrote: »

surely a business is all about cashflow. making a profit is worried about at end of the year?

or maybe i'm just an idiot.

Yip, all about cash flow. :rolleyes:

Right, I have to go and buy some more €10 notes, I am selling them like 'hot cakes' - the cash is flowing.
Don't worry about profit. :rolleyes:

If you don't at least break even, you will be out of business!

-Chris-

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Go to an independent dealer, they can offer bigger discounts on any new car they sell, the Main dealers cant.

Where are you getting this information. This doesn't make sense to me.

VolvoMan

How can independent traders discount cars so heavily and make a profit if they're buying them from the dealers in the first place?

R.O.R

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Go to an independent dealer, they can offer bigger discounts on any new car they sell, the Main dealers cant.

-Chris- wrote: »

Where are you getting this information. This doesn't make sense to me.

-Chris-, you've obviously never spoken to the guy down t'pub and are therefore basing your thoughts and opinions purely in the real world & experience - shame on you!

Discodog

Go to your nearest 3 or 4 dealers. Tell them you are prepared to buy now at the right price. Push them to their lowest price then say that you have to check with the wife.

Now take €1000 off the lowest quoted price & make this your target price. Phone first dealer & say that you will call in now & buy if he matches the price that you have got elsewhere - stress how you would rather buy from him. Repeat with the other dealers. This will give you a measure of dealer desperation.

Now call in to the one who's price is the lowest. Tell the salesman to get his order form. Get him to fill it in & then just before you sign it say that you need another €500 off & settle at €250 !.

The dealers have been stuffing you for years - it's payback time.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

Tell the salesman to get his order form. Get him to fill it in & then just before you sign it say that you need another €500 off & settle at €250 !.

The dealers have been stuffing you for years - it's payback time.

If the aim is to insult dealers for past sins then this might make some sense; as a bargaining tactic it makes none.

Gregor Samsa

Discodog, have you actually done this, or was it just a dream you had?

Your plan:

1. get best price
2. get 1000 euro discount
3. get another 250 euro discount

sounds a bit like the Underpants Gnomes from South Park:

Phase 1. Collect Underpants
Phase 2. ?
Phase 3. Profit

Only, at least the Gnomes ended up with underpants at the end of theirs.

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

Now call in to the one who's price is the lowest. Tell the salesman to get his order form. Get him to fill it in & then just before you sign it say that you need another €500 off & settle at €250 !.

What a brilliant plan. Insult him, and then get him into trouble with his manager - "Hey boss, I have a confirmed deal, I'm just going to signup the paperwork car's being delivered tomorrow", and then 5 minutes later the whole thing gets turned on it's head.

Discodog

Well I have been a salesman, a sales manager & finally a sales director. I worked with BMW, Porsche & Mercedes dealerships. Oh & I have run sales training courses.

You can be nice to Mr Salesman if you want to & get ripped off just like you have for years !

It's called negotiation & business people do it all the time. You clearly believe that Mr Salesman is your mate & that he will openly give you the best deal that he can. He won't. The only person who will get the best price is the one who haggles the hardest.

Any salesman ( & I am not excluding saleswomen who are invariably better) who has been trained (plenty haven't) will expect you to renegotiate at every opportunity & factor that into the deal. If you don't keep pushing then it's more money for him.

Try selling BMW's to the Asian community - then you discover what negotiation means.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

Well I have been a salesman, a sales manager & finally a sales director. I worked with BMW, Porsche & Mercedes dealerships. Oh & I have run sales training courses.

You can be nice to Mr Salesman if you want to & get ripped off just like you have for years !

It's called negotiation & business people do it all the time.

I don't know what sort of sales training courses you have run, but a basic tenet of negotiation is that people will do more for someone that they like. Needlessly antagonizing/humiliating a sales person will get you nowhere, a good negotiator will already have arrived at the best possible price without this. I'm surprised, because the first part of your advice is quite good - I think you are allowing your emotions to negatively intrude on your negotiation skills.

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

Well I have been a salesman, a sales manager & finally a sales director. I worked with BMW, Porsche & Mercedes dealerships. Oh & I have run sales training courses.

I've been with BMW & MINI, and I've run courses too. But I respect people, and as Chris says here (Which is one of the best sayings I've ever heard applied to the trade) - when you're buying a car, you're not buying the salespersons dignity. Good manners cost nothing, and can often result in a better deal overall if you can get the sales person on your side.

Discodog

Well I guessed that you were trade !. I never suggested that you insult or alienate. The best policy is to smile & explain that money is tight & you have to get the best deal. For example with the last "order form discount" make a call to the wife & pretend that she has heard back from one of the other dealers that they will take more off. Then you have an excuse to ask for a bit more as "I would much rather buy from you - smile"

The best negotiation is where it ends with both parties feeling that that have got something. But if you don't push then you will never know where the bottom line is. Are you suggesting that a salesman is going to really give his best price when asked ?. If he does he is in the wrong job. If you have trained salesmen then you would of taught them to hold back something in reserve so it will be no surprise.

In a forum discussing car sales how about a disclosure agreement where people divulge if they have a vested interest ?.

Owen

I don't think anyone selling cars in this forum has a vested interest. People who regularly post here who work in the trade usually keep their posts impartial, and offer honest advice.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

I never suggested that you insult or alienate. The best policy is to smile & explain that money is tight & you have to get the best deal. For example with the last "order form discount" make a call to the wife & pretend that she has heard back from one of the other dealers that they will take more off. Then you have an excuse to ask for a bit more as "I would much rather buy from you - smile"

You did, actually, here:

Discodog wrote: »

Tell the salesman to get his order form. Get him to fill it in & then just before you sign it say that you need another €500 off & settle at €250 !.

The dealers have been stuffing you for years - it's payback time.

Quite apart from the lost goodwill, a good negotiator will have read the salesperson and the situation well enough to know the lowest price at which the deal can be made before the order form appears.

Discodog

I do not want to go off topic but if a car dealer posts on here & advises a potential buyer their advice maybe rather biased - perhaps I am trying to redress the balance.

I would love to see a vibrant motor trade in Ireland but things have changed & they will never go back to how they were. Even as the economy recovers people will be more careful how they spend their money.

Now if anyone here has a dealership - get your salesmen out of the showroom & prospecting for business because it won't come to you.

Owen

Discodog wrote: »

I do not want to go off topic but if a car dealer posts on here & advises a potential buyer their advice maybe rather biased - perhaps I am trying to redress the balance.

Find some biased advice first, and then you can redress the balance if you wish.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

I do not want to go off topic but if a car dealer posts on here & advises a potential buyer their advice maybe rather biased - perhaps I am trying to redress the balance.

I don't think so, I think your advice here is simply poor:

Discodog wrote: »

Tell the salesman to get his order form. Get him to fill it in & then just before you sign it say that you need another €500 off & settle at €250 !.

The dealers have been stuffing you for years - it's payback time.

The idea is to get the car at the best possible price, and central to this is the salesperson's wanting to give you the best deal they can. Great negotiatiors are never adversarial, it's an art that has a lot more in common with seduction TBH.

Discodog

Maybe that's why I posted.

Changing your mind when an order form appears is not insulting or alienating. It is a basic consumer right & if the salesman is upset that's his fault - he should of been ready for it.

The difference is that the salesman should be a trained negotiator whereas the customer is not. Therefore the customer will not necessarily be able to read the salesman & judge when the best deal has been agreed.

The salesman has a choice - he can say no.

There was a previous comment regarding independent dealers & how they can sometimes get lower prices. It is because they know the trade & can haggle.

Maybe I am wrong & within a few months the dealers will be back making a fortune .......or ?

Discodog

Anan1 wrote: »

it's an art that has a lot more in common with seduction TBH.

Can I quote that when training - it really is the funniest thing that I have heard in a long time ?.

By the way my neighbours just changed their Yaris for a new one. They got to that stage of being with their local dealer - who had supplied their last three cars, they were about to sign a deal. They decided to call in at another dealer "just to see". They saved €2000 !.

Anan1

Discodog wrote: »

Can I quote that when training - it really is the funniest thing that I have heard in a long time ?.

You can have that one FOC.;)

BlackWizard

I tend to push hard at the last minute too when negotiating on contracts and anything else I can negotiate on.

Definitely people should consider what they are doing when filling in that order form. Its only natural. Even let the salesperson know you are unsure and nervous about it. "What can you do to convince me I'm making the right decision here" "I don't want to walk away being unsure about that I just done"

I definitely agree with what Discodog has been saying. I've seen it happen a lot outside of the car business, so I don't see why it can't work there too.

Owen

BlackWizard wrote: »

I definitely agree with what Discodog has been saying. I've seen it happen a lot outside of the car business, so I don't see why it can't work there too.

The issue is that you're putting someone's job at risk by taking this tactic. If a sales person negotiates with you, and you say you're happy to go ahead with the deal, he then goes to his sales manager and asks for permission to sign up the deal. The manager will examine the figures, and give a yay or nay.

If the sales person comes back 3 minutes later to the manager, and says the customer wants more discount, he's going to look like the weak link in the chain, and the sales manager will be watching everything he's doing for weeks afterwards.

It's not the way to buy a car, you do all your dealing up front, and honestly, and at the very end, you sign the dotted line. If you can't negotiate without using an underhanded tactic that could put someone's job on the line, then get someone to do it for you.

Stevie Dakota

I can also see the merit in what discodog is saying, this idea that being open, honest and friendly will win you a good deal is nonsense. It will make for a more cordial transaction and a happier saleperson, but it is rarely in the best interest on the punter.

A while back I was looking at a new C5, the salesperson was a really nice guy, gave me loads of time, arranged a good testdrive in the model that I was keen on and we had a great rapport. We sat down, discussed figures, I pushed him as hard as I could and got his best price. He said he could go no lower. Phone call to another Citroen dealer and the price was over €1000 lower, over the phone. Now while I appreciated the service this was too much of a gap to overlook, in fact I felt doubly insulted that DESPITE a good rapport I was paying over the odds.

Moral of the story, shop around, the nice, friendly salesperson does not mean the chance of a better deal.

Owen

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Moral of the story, shop around, the nice, friendly salesperson does not mean the chance of a better deal.

The moral of your story, but it will vary from person to person. Not everyone will get the best deal on the phone, not everyone will get the best deal in person. I do firmly believe though that the rapport built up with a salesperson is the best method overall for getting what you want.

Stevie Dakota

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I do firmly believe though that the rapport built up with a salesperson is the best method overall for getting what you want.

And I believe the best method for getting what you want is doing your homework, not depending on a good rapport to deliver it. Once you have a good idea of the bottom line, then by all means do the deal in positive and cordial manner. And this applied to buying anything, not just cars.

BlackWizard

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The issue is that you're putting someone's job at risk by taking this tactic. If a sales person negotiates with you, and you say you're happy to go ahead with the deal, he then goes to his sales manager and asks for permission to sign up the deal. The manager will examine the figures, and give a yay or nay.

If the sales person comes back 3 minutes later to the manager, and says the customer wants more discount, he's going to look like the weak link in the chain, and the sales manager will be watching everything he's doing for weeks afterwards.

It's not the way to buy a car, you do all your dealing up front, and honestly, and at the very end, you sign the dotted line. If you can't negotiate without using an underhanded tactic that could put someone's job on the line, then get someone to do it for you.

I'm sorry if I would be putting someone jobs at risk. But if that's what I must do then I will certainly do it. So maybe businesses that operate where employee jobs are at risk because of the possibility of sales being cancelled or renegotiated in the last minute need to reconsider their sales process.

But don't get me wrong, I understand the awkwardness I would be causing and the effort that would ensue having to redraw up a new order form and get it signed off by a manager. But this is all normal to me so I really don't see the major issue. The motor industry might not be used to it but it doesn't mean it can't get used to it.

Anan1

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

And I believe the best method for getting what you want is doing your homework, not depending on a good rapport to deliver it. Once you have a good idea of the bottom line, then by all means do the deal in positive and cordial manner. And this applied to buying anything, not just cars.

At the start of negotiation, only the salesperson knows what their bottom line is, the customer needs to find this out. People are more inclined to let their guard slip when they like someone, this is why a good rapport is essential to reading the salesperson. Negotiation is far more about reading people & listening than it is about talking, IMO.

Stevie Dakota

Anan1 wrote: »

At the start of negotiation, only the salesperson knows what their bottom line is, the customer needs to find this out.

This is exactly why the customer needs to to do whatever they need to prior to final negotiations. So when negotiations start they are not in such a weak position. Visit different dealers, do you price checks, make phone calls, only when up to speed get into the serious nitty gritty with your prefered saleperson.


A question for the dealers, which would you prefer -

Customer A - clueless on price or spec or potential discounts, but you may be able to sell them a car with a bigger profit margin.

Customer B - a more informed customer, knows what they want, the car the spec and the price. You margin could be a lot less but you know they mean business and you could have a quicker sale.

Genuinely interested.