Do you want to be a ski or snowboard instructor?

Printer

Hi all

Im just trying to conduct a bit of research for a possible future business venture so Id really appreciate you answering the poll and offering any opinions or thoughts to the thread.

Would you like to become a qualified Ski or Snowboard Instructor?

The poll above is regarding whether or not you would be interested in participating in some kind of full time course (either 5, 8 or 12 weeks) that would take place in a top resort in Europe, in order to train to become a certified instructor with a qualification that would be recognised internationally and would allow you to work as an instructor.
(could be a gap year, career break or just change of direction)

Full time courses could also be offered with language classes and tuition resulting in a qualification and a deep understanding of a second language at then end of the course.

Those doing 5 week course would train for the Level 1 instructor certificate (eligible to teach beginners)

Those doing 8 week course would train for the Level 1 and Level 2 instructor certificates (eligible to teach most levels of students, also easier to get a job)

Those doing 12 week course would train for the Level 1, Level 2 and Freestyle instructor certificates (eligible to teach most levels of students, including giving park/freestyle lessons)

Courses would run similarly to those already in place in Canada and New Zealand but would be run out of Europe. Students would get free lift pass for season, 4 days of instruction per week from certified examiners, accommodation in self catering apartments, exam fees paid for, day of heliskiing, Freestyle training 1 day per week, backcountry booter sessions, video analysis etc.Courses would be suitable for all levels of riders and skiers.

Price:
5 week course: Somewhere between 3,500euro and 5,000euro
8 week course: Somewhere between 5,000euro and 6,500euro
12 week course: Somewhere between 8,000euro and 9,500euro

These prices are based on other similar courses in Canada, USA and New Zealand.

Other:
1. If there was an option to also participate in a language course as part of the programme for extra money (either French, Spanish, German or English) would you be interested in this too?

2. If becoming a snowboard or ski instructor was offered as an internationally recognised course as part of a university or DIT would this interest you? For example a course run out of DIT or somewhere that involves the above material.

Please add your comments about price, course content, structure etc. I'd like your feedback

No - please state why underneath.

Where are the courses i.e. do you train in Kilternan or do you do it abroad somewhere for that price?

And how does it compare to this one (training wise) for 600 NZD which is just under 300 Euro for just the training? Are they comparable?

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

All the training would take place on snow in a top resort in Europe. Im not sure what one in New Zealand you are referring to as no link came up? Can you repost it please.

No - please state why underneath.

http://www.nzski.com/newsletter.jsp?id=2B319CDD-4549-4DB4-B20D-39EA378CB1AA&site=coronetpeak

Sorry about that Printer, check it out and let me know

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

I think you posted your last prices with a missing zero!! Their 10 week course is over 5,000euro and the 5 week course is 3,500euro. And this only includes THREE days of training per week. So its roughly in line with the costs I stated above.

Thanks for the link and feedback though.

No - please state why underneath.

Sorry I was looking at the "technical course".

I think it's a good idea and once your prices are competitive and the standards are high, I can see it doing well.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Oh right, I see that now. Thats only 6 days of training but looks like a good idea. When I did my instructor courses I did something similar to this but thats because my level was quite good at that stage.

The full time courses (5, 8 or 12 weeks) are more suited to people who really want to become an instructor but are still relatively new to the sport.

robinph

A reply to a question for me from another thread:

Printer wrote: »

Robin - Why did you choose the one in Coronet to do? Did you look at other ones? Ive started a poll on becoming an instructor in here. Id really appreciate your feedback if you ahve time.

There was a certain amount of just sticking a pin in the page to select which company and location I eventually went with for my upcoming instructor course. There are so many to choose from and I think at one stage I may have had at least 8 different ones on my potentials list just for in New Zealand. I then decided to stop looking for more companies that did courses though and just try and whittle down the ones I had already found from Googleing.

After having been around New Zealand for a few weeks last year though I had a fair idea about the different locations and decided that I prefered the idea of being in Queenstown for the duration, another course I was very close to booking with was based in some small town a long way from anywhere so that got eliminated for me for issues completely unrelated to skiing or the actual course. I did though end up booking a two week course in Canada which I did in February with that same company and was pretty impressed with that course and their longer 6 and 11 week courses from seeing people doing those when I was out there.

Other things that may have helped me eliminate some courses would have just been the ease of contacting the company concerned, what kind of brouchures they then sent out to me, if I liked the look of their website. Even the being able to pay in Sterling with the exchange rate as good as it was back at the beggining of the year would have made a difference. I had finally narrowed it down to the one company though, but was then still undecided about which of their courses to do as they had the one in Queenstown and also another on at the same time in Argentina. Again thought eh actual descision came down to almost the flipping of a coin type choices though.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Thanks for the reply Robin. Good information to get. If there had been an Irish company offering the same type of thing in Europe for the same type of money would you have gone for it?

I mean would it have mattered to you to have the IASI Cert as opposed to the NZ one.

Also, if there was an opportunity to get lessons in a foreign language and learn how to teach in that language as part of the course would it have changed your decision?

Thanks

robinph

The reason for going for an NZ course is purely down to time of year. By the time I had the opportunity for doing three months of skiing it was too late for starting any course in the northern hemisphere, so I just went for a short two week course in Canada to fill time time a bit instead. I have already done most of the training for the IASI level 1 at Kilternan, but mostly down to clashes with other things I'd not got round to doing the actual exam there.

I was contemplating doing the course in Argentina instead of NZ, which would actually have been a BASI qualification, and that course would also have included some basic Spanish as well. It wouldn't have been any particuarly advanced language though so I wasn't too bothered about that. I have zero languages though and would like to fix that issue that the education system I passed through left me with, but I've never quite got round to it yet.

No - please state why underneath.

Don't worry lads, English is the international language of choice! Everyone knows English these days, it's actually brilliant. If you're going to learn a languange, learn Spanish, not that hard to learn either.

prunudo

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

hi printer, I had looked into doing something similar in Fernie, Canada with a crowd from the UK. I would definetly be interested in some shape or form. I dont know if I would ever use the qualifaction abroad but you never know what may happen and I think it would be good to have the knowledge and it would be a good way to improve your own skills. And regards the price I dont think its too excessive.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. I have a question Im hoping you might help me with:

Would you choose one of these courses above the other ones on offer if it was directly affiliated to an IT or University here in Ireland. For example you are not only training to become an instructor but you are also getting an internationally recognised 3rd level accreditation (Cert or Diploma) in Snowsports Instruction. Modules would include working with children, mountain safety, first aid, foreign language.

What do you think?

robinph

jvan wrote: »

hi printer, I had looked into doing something similar in Fernie, Canada with a crowd from the UK.

That will be the crowd that I did a two week course with there back in February. Would definitely recommend them.

prunudo

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Personnally I dont think I would have the time to do it as a 3rd level course but it would certainly make it more appealing.

No - please state why underneath.

3'rd level option would be brilliant but as long as the "fluff" is ruled out, there is an awful lot of crap in third level courses - for a practical course such as snowsports, i'd be expecting minimum amount of theory required and practical exams based on technique and ability to carry out what would be required.

A one year course would be more than enough inclusive of practical training.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Yes it would definately be a one year course or even a 6 month elective as part of another course.

In New Zealand they offer instructor courses as part of The Otago Polytechnic Institute (like an IT here) and its always full every year. Its a really good price for NZ citizens but 3 times the price if you are not a resident.

I was really hoping to get a bit more feedback and poll results on here so if you know of anyone thinking of becoming an instructor please get them to post as I need all the opinions I can get.

No - please state why underneath.

You should get down to Kilternan ski club and get some info, you'd get more replies there on a Saturday than you prob would here for the next month.

AlmaMater

Hey, I didn’t fill in the survey cos I know nothing about snowboarding or skiing. Here are my two cents about the course though. Any course that I’ve ever considered I have decided on three aspects
1. Career opportunities after
2. Value for money
3. The experience I’d have doing the course

I think most people would decide on these three criteria, just the importance of each would vary. Possibly location would be an equally important factor in this case.

1. I think that a real pull factor to your course would be what extras it can offer candidates when applying for jobs. If I was looking at courses I would email all of them asking questions about how many of last years course found employment, where did they find employment etc. I’d be checking what time of year was best to do the course, that like after you qualify you would be most likely to roll into a job rather than waiting about for months. Also what pass rate people have As a new company you can’t offer those statistics so I think you need to do a huge amount of market research checking out all the major resorts and finding out what skills and experience would set a candidate apart for them. I would find that so helpful if I could click on your website and look at the resort I wanted to travel to and was told they are especially looking for people who can speak German for example and can teach kids and have a first aid course and then see that you can offer that to me.

2. Moneywise, I think if you have decided you are willing to spend a few thousand euro on a course like this you don’t really make a decision based on who is €500 cheaper or whatever, more so what you get for your money. Like if there was a course for €5,000 offering basic instructor lessons versus a course for €5,500-6,000 which offered things like a certificate in First Aid and/or Mountain Safety etc I would choose that. And also if you offered services like assisting people with getting police clearance to work with children/ sorting out PPS numbers that for me would be a great selling point if going to a new country esp one with a language barrier.

Would insurance be included in the price? Or would normal holiday insurance cover you when doing a course like this? How big would your public liability insurance be? I’d say the costs involved in this would be seriously high. Are you picking your prices just compared to other courses or on proper costings for all your offering? Accommodation/ teachers/ classroom spaces/ lift passes/ do you need to rent an area outside to be able to charge money to instruct there?

3. Experience/ location- I think that you would really need to have a couple of locations in mind before you go to Kiltiernan or wherever to do the survey. Its very up in the air besides. You might have a better idea of costs if you do this and may find ppl would be willing to pay that bit extra for a busier resort.

As an aside, I don’t know much about European visas but if you were able to work in something that would allow people to fill criteria allowing them to extend their visas that would be cool and would attract a lot Americans or whoever.

Finally, is this a 52 weeks of the year business? Or is it just seasonal? That’s it Princess!

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Hey,

Thanks so much for the detailed response. You are absolutely right on many counts. The reality is that there are lots and lots of other almost identical courses out there all over the world. You train for X amount of weeks and you come out with either Level 1 instructor or Level 2 depending on the length of the course.

However, I have two ideas to separate this from all other courses. One is offering language courses that would prepare you to teach in French or Spanish. This autmatically gives you a hefty pay increase in most resorts across the world.

The second is to have the course recognised by an IT in Ireland at certificate level. Meaning that you not only have an isntructor qualification but you also have a third level internationally recognised course to go with it. For example - Certificate in Snowsports Instruction and Applied Languages.

Getting it recognised by a third level institution and running it out of another country in the way I have described is most definitely the hard part.

I have another idea how to get round this... details will follow soon.

aoifej2006

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Hey Printer,
sounds like a really interesting idea. I'd have a couple reservations though as to who exactly this would be aimed at?
I only got into boarding while I was at college, as did most people I know. Would the third-level snowsports course be something you'd hope people to apply for coming right out of school? I just don't know anyone who would have been skiing/boarding by then, and certainly not enough to know that they wanted to do it as a career (unless of course they'd been going with their parents from when they were kids or something). And then I can only imagine the arguments over the CAO form - it's not really the career choice I can see parents getting behind, not for a 17/18 year old.
I do agree that a third level qualification would help when looking for a job though. But I can't think of any existing-type courses that you could add it as an elective, besides like a PE coaching course, but then, your target audience quite possibly wouldn't have considered that course in the first place.
I would think that students already in college would be more likely candidates. The problem then of course is that they don't have 8 weeks to spare during the winter. So I'd imagine your main competition is southern hemisphere places when the students could go during the summer holidays?

Basically, as a course to do after having finished college, or any stage later in life, I do like the idea. And I do think the language thing is a good idea too, although would most people hope to end up working in either Canada or NZ? Europe would only have a (good-sized) fraction of the attraction, and would be divided between like 3 or 4 languages, which would make the decision a bit harder to actually do a language, and then to be happy with the language chosen.
But I'm not sure how well it would work as a third-level qualification. I think it would be the thing that most people would discover halfways through their Engineering degree or something and wish that they had done it, but wouldn't have had the nerve to do it in the first place. But maybe not - maybe the kids are all out snowboarding these days and I'm just out of the loop!

Good luck!

goofygirl

I am also interested in the language classes option

already did my exam this winter

gavkm27

Yes - 12 week course - Ski

Hi i ticked 1 box for the 12 week snowbaord,but since then i went with a last minute decision to go on the Argentina 8 week course with peakleaders coming up end of this month,can't wait!

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

aoifej2006 wrote: »

Hey Printer,

I only got into boarding while I was at college, as did most people I know. Would the third-level snowsports course be something you'd hope people to apply for coming right out of school? I just don't know anyone who would have been skiing/boarding by then, and certainly not enough to know that they wanted to do it as a career (unless of course they'd been going with their parents from when they were kids or something). And then I can only imagine the arguments over the CAO form - it's not really the career choice I can see parents getting behind, not for a 17/18 year old.


Good luck!

Hey Aoife,

Thanks for the feedback. Your right on lots of counts. The age thing would be irrelevant, it would be open to anyone coming straight from school or as you say people after college. The 3rd level part would take on two very different formats. If you just want to get your level 1 then you would do los of theory based learning in Ireland followed by 2 weeks on the snow where you are trained for 8-10 days and then assessed for 4 days.

If you want to do your level 2 then this would take a lot more commitment and you would do all of the above but rather than stay 2 weeks you would stay on for 8 weeks and train towards your level 2.

So the level 1 bit would mainly be aimed at people who are already in college or working and can afford to go along to theory based learning a couple of hours a week. Preferably these people would have snowboarded or skied at least 3 weeks before starting the part time course.

The people who would want their level 2 would be people prepared to give up their job, taking a career break or on a gap year who have always wanted to become an instructor and really see themselves going off to use it eventually.

With regard to the language this would be an optional extra but would be useful to have in terms of getting a job. Being able to speak another language gets you approx 10% higher pay in most resorts (I got it in Whistler) and also makes you far more employable than the other candidates!

Any other feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

aoifej2006

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Printer wrote: »

Hey Aoife,

So the level 1 bit would mainly be aimed at people who are already in college or working and can afford to go along to theory based learning a couple of hours a week. Preferably these people would have snowboarded or skied at least 3 weeks before starting the part time course.

The people who would want their level 2 would be people prepared to give up their job, taking a career break or on a gap year who have always wanted to become an instructor and really see themselves going off to use it eventually.

That seems to be a perfectly logical way to set it up! That works in my mind - work the courses around the people that are most likely to be interested in them.

One question. I can see lots of people in college being interested and taking the Level 1 course with an eye to do the Level 2 course. Is the Level 2 course something that would have completion of Level 1 as a requirement? and if not, would it be possible to knock some time/money off the Level 2 course for people who had completed Level 1?

I'm just thinking of your average college student that is keen to do Level 2, but would do Level 1 first if it was necessary / would save him some time/money on Level 2. It would also give them a taste for it - if it was a well run course, I'd say you'd get a good percentage of people coming back to you.

Again though, it is a shame that the college year ends in the summer. That would be an ideal time for a student to do this sort of thing. (can't see how you can fix that, sorry! Move Ireland to the southern hemisphere!)

Fattes

Good thread but a couple of points

Who will certify the instructors?

You are not going to be able to run the courses in France unless you have instructors that are recognised by France, and trying to set something up from outside the establishment in France is near impossible. You will not be able to use the French system as the entry standard is so high and the way they have their systems set up for taking new entrants

The Austrians have their own system which is open to outsiders
as do the Italians but you have to pass your Eurotest at level 1 and I don’t think you will have to many gab years capable of that. So are you going to piggy back off an existing system or set up from scratch?

As far as I am aware the IASI only recognise one body in Ireland as qualified to certify instructors? So linking with a University will be like doing your Level 1 or 2 in NZ or Canada none of the IASI countries would recognise the qualification.

Unless you have a secret stash of Trainers stacked away you will be offering the same courses as BASI, Warren Smith etc using the same trainers just over a longer period and costing more?

No - please state why underneath.

Fattes,

Do you know about the IASI training ? Is it the same standard as a level 1/level 2 NZ ski instructor ? I was on the IASI website but it's confusing to work out as it's spread out over longer modules and 6 weeks to do a level 1 ?

Fattes

The level one allows you to teach on any artificial surface, (Snowdomes,snowflex,dendex etc). Level 2 and up qualify you to teach on snow.
There is a 6 weeks one night a week training before the assesment I thik you only have to do about 50,60% of the nights and a training weekend to prep you for the assesment.The the actual assesment itself is a 3 day course.

From what I have seen it is more recognised in Europe than the NZ qualification but I guess that depends on the ski school etc. It is very well recognized around Europe.They have full ISIA recognition so the award is recognised worldwide.

Standard is high and the focus on technical perfection can be frustrating at times but the end result is worth it. Even doing the training improves people from what I have seen.

Let me know if you need anything else

No - please state why underneath.

I'm just not a fan of the artificial surface, have never tried it and just don't like the idea of practicing on it.

I was finding out more about the NZ qualification today, basically in total for standard ski instructing, there are three teaching levels to correspond to the 6 ability levels they have in place over here.

Level 1 teaches you how to teach beginner up to snow wedges etc i.e. level 1 and level 2 user ability.

Level 2 teaches you to teach skiiers to parallel ski and perfect their technique etc and up to a user level of level 3 and 4.

Level 3 then allows you to teach level 5 and 6 skiiers basically high end intermediate and advanced upwards.

The NZ ski one is qualified world wide also - I know for a fact that ISIA is not going to allow you to teach in France but that's obvious, same applies for the NZ qualification as far as I know.

Other than that, there pretty much similar courses in different hemispheres. I'd personally prefer the NZ one because it's on snow, in Queenstown and works out cheaper.

However, I'd like to do the ISIA training if they did it on snow but that's impossible due to the climate. Most of my enjoyment from skiing comes from the fact it's an outdoor sport. The indoor or artificial stuff would just be patronising to me personally.

I have a good mate who is a ski instructor down there in Kilternan and he enjoys it.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Fattes wrote: »

Who will certify the instructors?

The courses would be certified by an International Association such as NZSIA, CASI or IASI (Ireland)... This would depend on who is most interested and keen.

Training would be offered by myself and other highly qualified instructors but the assessment and exams would be done by an outside body of examiners from whichever association I am linked to. They would turn up in the resort and do the exam with the students and that would be their only involvement. I would help to train prospective students for their level 1 and then I would employ higher level instructors to train them for their level 2 along with myself.

In Ireland and Britain you have to do shadow sessions and logged hours for the level 1 but in most other systems lots of people (who have a high level or riding) show up off the street to do the level 1. I am not saying this is a great idea but it can be done if students study the manual and are confident at teaching. The level 2 is a much higher standard of riding and for this reason a lot more training would be needed.

You are right about France being exceedingly difficult to instruct in but there are ways. It helps that I speak fluent French for all the red tape involved! You must be at ISIA Level and then do a crossover cert and have FIS points (boardercross can be used for snowboarders). The ISIA is equivalent of Level 3 in most countries. Be careful not to confuse this with IASI (Irish system).

Hope that clears things up a bit. Any other questions fire them at me.

Fattes

I will take it if you are acting as a trainer you are at the ISIA standard or a Level 3 equivelant from another awarding body which would be the minimum requirement for training and setting up ski schools and programmes

Still the problem of the Canadian and NZ level 1 & 2 and the overall system not well recognised in Europe??

As for the French thing put BRITISH SNOWSPORTS INSTRUCTOR COURT CASE into google and you will see just some of the problems with France. Does not matter if you speak the Lingo the French are as mad as a bag of hammers and very protective of their mountains.

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Yes you are definately right about the French system being incredibly difficult to get into but it is not impossible. There are quite a few BASI run schools over there now with BASI instructors (all Level 3) working in them. Its very disappointing that they are still very unaccepting of other qualifications but progress is slowly being made. I have been offered a job teaching in France as soon as I have BASI 3. The French only accept BASI and one or two other countries so far in terms of snowboarding.

Im not sure I agree with you saying CASI and NZSIA certs are not recognised in Europe. All my certs are from CASI and NZSIA and every place I have ever spoken to (outside of France) recognise the certs and in fact they hold the NZ certs in particular high regard as it is commonly known that the NZ system is one of the hardest to progress through. I have been offered numerous jobs all round Europe already for next season and that is just applying with CASI and NZ certs.

Hopefully the situation regarding France will improve over time and allow more snowboarders the opportunity to work there without first having to be a ski instructor.

snowlady

Sorry mate but you are fairly misguided! The French do not allow legally any L3 either ski or snowboard work there unless they have taken their test technique (which is a test on a slalom course that can only be done on skis) Do you have this already? If you do you can only work for one of the big ski schools ESF or ESI as most British schools do not have stagiere status....

Also in France the guys that got the Europro card (means they can work legally and independently) who are snowboarders got it as part of a deal done a couple of years ago, it's near on impossible to get full working rights in France without you doing the whole of the ski system, it's the same for French snowboarders who have to qualify as full ski instructor diplome's before they can work as snowboard instructors!

snowlady

PS BASI don't run any ski schools anywhere! I guess you are talking about BASS which is a totally independent entity.

Fattes

Snowlady beat me to it.

France is a closed shop no matter what you qualification you need to go through their system and satisfy theri qualification criteria even if you are a BASI level 4 etc

NZ and Canadian level 1 & 2 qualifications where once available through courses in Andorra and peakleadear (I think was the co) They where soon pulled as non of the people doing them could get work in Europe other than teaching snoplough to kinder garden kids. It is like the austrian Anvwart (Not sure about spelling) It only lets you teach kindergarden kids and is not recognised outside of Austria or Switzerland

Can we get an answer to the question about your trainers? Are you a level 3 or are you just using the same exsisting level 3 that are already workign out there?

Fattes

No - please state why underneath.

Fattes wrote: »

Snowlady beat me to it.

France is a closed shop no matter what you qualification you need to go through their system and satisfy theri qualification criteria even if you are a BASI level 4 etc

NZ and Canadian level 1 & 2 qualifications where once available through courses in Andorra and peakleadear (I think was the co) They where soon pulled as non of the people doing them could get work in Europe other than teaching snoplough to kinder garden kids. It is like the austrian Anvwart (Not sure about spelling) It only lets you teach kindergarden kids and is not recognised outside of Austria or Switzerland

Can we get an answer to the question about your trainers? Are you a level 3 or are you just using the same exsisting level 3 that are already workign out there?

Why is that Fattes? The NZ and Canada qualification is meant to be slightly higher than the Irish one (probably because it's though on actual snow) from what I have been told.

Here are the levels:

Level 1 teaches you how to teach beginner up to snow wedges etc i.e. level 1 and level 2 user ability.

Level 2 teaches you to teach skiiers to parallel ski and perfect their technique etc and up to a user level of level 3 and 4.

Level 3 then allows you to teach level 5 and 6 skiiers basically high end intermediate and advanced upwards.

I've no affiliation with either. I haven't even done the courses and missed the boat to do it this year anyway so won't be doing it in the future as i'll be too busy.

Snowie

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is that Fattes? The NZ and Canada qualification is meant to be slightly higher than the Irish one (probably because it's though on actual snow) from what I have been told.

Here are the levels:

Level 1 teaches you how to teach beginner up to snow wedges etc i.e. level 1 and level 2 user ability.

Level 2 teaches you to teach skiiers to parallel ski and perfect their technique etc and up to a user level of level 3 and 4.

Level 3 then allows you to teach level 5 and 6 skiiers basically high end intermediate and advanced upwards.

I've no affiliation with either. I haven't even done the courses and missed the boat to do it this year anyway so won't be doing it in the future as i'll be too busy.

It doesn't matter in France you have to be recognized bye the French system and be a ski Instructor first and yu have to be SH!T hot... and then you can teach boarding...
Besides If your going to teach you may as well live in a snow layden country and have days apon days of riding, ive done 3 seasons i wouldn't even qualify my self to teach a mate... Tho i was taught the canadian style of boarding...

I love boarding Id rather work as a lifty then an instructor

robinph

BASI qualifications are now recognised in France, not sure on the exact details but France had to cave into some court case I think it may have been. I'll see if I can get hold of the link to the story tomorrow, but I'm heading out for pints now.

Snowie

robinph wrote: »

BASI qualifications are now recognised in France, not sure on the exact details but France had to cave into some court case I think it may have been. I'll see if I can get hold of the link to the story tomorrow, but I'm heading out for pints now.

I sahll find that out

Snow-Monkey

No - please state why underneath.

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

It doesn't matter in France you have to be recognized bye the French system and be a ski Instructor first and yu have to be SH!T hot... and then you can teach boarding...
Besides If your going to teach you may as well live in a snow layden country and have days apon days of riding, ive done 3 seasons i wouldn't even qualify my self to teach a mate... Tho i was taught the canadian style of boarding...

I love boarding Id rather work as a lifty then an instructor

Sorry snow-monkey, didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the bit where Fattes said that NZ and Canada qualified found it hard to get work in Europe...

Snowie

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry snow-monkey, didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the bit where Fattes said that NZ and Canada qualified found it hard to get work in Europe...

ohhhh


sorry

Fattes

TheEntrepreneur: Level 1 BASI/IASI, Allows you to teach up to Parallel on artificial surfacesLevel 2 Qualifies you do do the same on Pisted and patrolled areas on SnowSo your first qualifications allow you to teach a greater range of classes than the equivalent NZ/Canadian. The IASI do not recognise the Canadian or NZ qualification but do recognise most of the European one's including the Irish one. I am not giving a personal opinion here, just stating how various qualifications are seen in Europe. I also pointed out that the Austrian Level 1 is not worth much outside of Austria/Switzerland. I am not criticising any of the qualifications available just stating the facts of what happens in the real world.I have seen Various Level 1 (From different awarding bodies) make level 3(From different and the same awarding bodies) look like bad skiers and teachers and vice versa. It is all about the individual with the qualification. The qualification is just a guide to the person just like no 2 people with the same Degree and results will be the same in any job. I know plenty of people teaching in Europe and Canada and am very involved in snow sports in general so I have a good idea of what is going on out there. Especially now with numbers dropping Ski Schools will start to become even more selective about who they employee to teach. Snow Monkey If you look on page 2 I have attached the google search for the court case you refer to. Trust me it still does not work.Nearly all the BASI guys working in France are certified to French equivalent. Like I said the French are MAD! Personally even if I had a level 4 I would not be teaching I would be trying to get as much time on the snow for myself!! So bar work it is

redzerdrog

Yes - 12 week course - Snowboard

Printer wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. I have a question Im hoping you might help me with:

Would you choose one of these courses above the other ones on offer if it was directly affiliated to an IT or University here in Ireland. For example you are not only training to become an instructor but you are also getting an internationally recognised 3rd level accreditation (Cert or Diploma) in Snowsports Instruction. Modules would include working with children, mountain safety, first aid, foreign language.

What do you think?

this would definately appeal to me i would sign up in the morning

Snowie

There was a court case a while ago and last I heard there were a certain number of BASI instructors allowed, but no more, so you need to wait for somebody to retire before another can take their place.

This was very much a way for the French to prevent the British suing them.....

ps from dark snow....

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Just to clear some things up here guys. I am a Level 2 instructor and Freestyle Coach certified but I am NOT a trainer/examiner with any association. I am doing my Level 3 this coming season. I am merely making inquiries and trying to carry out some research on demand for potential future courses. People can avail of training in lots of different forms, most of the trainers I had in Canada were NOT registered examiners but were amazing instructors and were only training people for a level they have already achieved. For example Level 2 guys were training people for their Level 1 and so on. Training is merely there to help guide potential instructors for the level they are hoping to achieve and this is done in two formats - Teaching and Technique. It would be best if you were trained by an examiner but this is rarely something that is easily available. I would not be running any courses until I got my Level 3 and if I was training anyone it would just be to help them achieve their level 1. In terms of training for the Level 2, I would use Level 3 trainers and just help out myself.

This working in France thing is causing great debate and thats a good thing! I am not mistaken on what I have previously written - I have detailed documentation from the French authorities, the NZ administration and the ISIA about what exactly you need to do or to be, to be an instructor in France. As I said before the French system has ever so slightly opened as they now accept Level 3 (ISIA or ISTD Stamp) from BASI to teach snowboarding. BUT those people must adhere to the French regulations which means they must have a mountain avalanche course done, they must have FIS points or a timed boardercross race and they must have a crossover discipline done. (Cert in ski instructing). Just email BASI and they will tell you all this. As I said, it is NOT easy at all to get into France but it is NOT impossible. (I am not sure if they have a certain number who are allowed to work there)

With regard to Canadian and NZ qualifications in Europe. Every place I have been in contact with (Zermatt, Crans, Verbier, Mayrhofen, Soldeu, etc etc) DO accept the NZ and Canadian Certs. I do agree however though that for working in Europe IASI and BASI are more common and therefore more resorts know more about them but the NZ and CASI certs are most definately accepted in most resorts in Europe (except for France of course!)

Fattes

The below is takien from the peak leaders website in relation to there l1 & 2 Canadian.This is why there is questions about the standard very few of the European qualifications have 100% pass level

I am not saying you will not get work with a Canadian qualification or a NZ one and I am not preaching the values of one qualification over another just telling you the realities of ski schools in Europe


100% Level 1 passes, and pretty close to 100% Level 2 - this is taken from the whole group, not just the strong ones we put forward

http://www.peakleaders.com/instructor_courses/Banff/1

Dont fool yourself about France just because the EU says they have to do somthing does not mean they are doing it

paulharte

**THIS POST APPLIES ONLY TO SNOWBOARDING**


hey guys,

Just have to chime in, can't stand by and see my my qualification dissed!!

The actual CASI test actually has quite a high fail rate, two guys failed the one I did. A guy I worked with was also the only in his class to pass a level 2. You can do the test seperately from any course.

I know Tim (only Irish pro snowboarder) did peak leaders, and they have a very long, intensive course, so I guess that is why they guarantee high pass rates.

I can say that anyone who I have worked with who has CASI levels has top notch turns and that the instructors are beyond ace.

I also got a job (even without an interview) with my CASI cert in switzerland.

Can't comment on ski stuff, as I'm not a skiier really


Also, top 3 in snowboard slalom and boardercross in the irish champs this year ALL have CASI certs, and the top two in freestyle. You do the math!

Fattes

I personally have not Dissed any qualification on here (Except for the Austrian leve one qualification). I have also stated that the qualifications are only a guide and it depends on the Instructor not the piece of paper he/she is waving about. I have not commented on the quality of Canadian or NZ courses. I have just commented on my experience and that of people I know in the snow sports industry in Europe in relation to how the courses are treated and the 100% pass rate was an example or a reason why some people are hesitant.

robinph

The 100% pass rate statistic should be taken with a large pinch of salt I believe. The way things are going out here at the moment it's doubtful that everyone will even still be on two feet by the time of the exam as we've had a couple of injuries already although thankfully no one actually off the course due to injuries so far. Only to be expected after two weeks of a group of 40'ish or so mostly 18 year olds going skiing though. There was definitely not 100% pass rate for the NZ level one at the first attempts on last years course, although its possible that everyone did make it through by the end of the 10 weeks I'm not certain on that. I've not heard from our instructors about the pass rate for level 2 on last years course, but there was less people that even took that exam last year than the level 1.

Snowie

paulharte wrote: »

**THIS POST APPLIES ONLY TO SNOWBOARDING**


hey guys,

Just have to chime in, can't stand by and see my my qualification dissed!!

The actual CASI test actually has quite a high fail rate, two guys failed the one I did. A guy I worked with was also the only in his class to pass a level 2. You can do the test seperately from any course.

I know Tim (only Irish pro snowboarder) did peak leaders, and they have a very long, intensive course, so I guess that is why they guarantee high pass rates.

I can say that anyone who I have worked with who has CASI levels has top notch turns and that the instructors are beyond ace.

I also got a job (even without an interview) with my CASI cert in switzerland.

Can't comment on ski stuff, as I'm not a skiier really


Also, top 3 in snowboard slalom and boardercross in the irish champs this year ALL have CASI certs, and the top two in freestyle. You do the math!

:rolleyes:

its all well a good listing of the facts, but doesn't really prove that you can actually teach dendexboarding!

Printer

Yes - 8 week course - Ski

Just to note in terms of pass rates when I did my Level 2 in New Zealand there were 86 on the course in Cardrona and 68 passed.

In my CASI Freestyle Course 4 out of 6 passed. In the CASI level 2 my friend did 2 out of 8 passed. I also personally know a few people who were in level 1 groups which had a few people fail.

I agree with the poster who said its far more about the person than it is the qualification though.