leisure battery maintenance question

martyc5674

Hi,
Leisure batt in van i got wasnt holding charge the best (havent driven van a whole pile yet) but it was getting up to 12/13V all the time but would run down quick enough again.
Took it out last night and put in on charge overnight...and now its knackered!!...6V!!
Went to halfords and the leisure batts there are 175€!!
Anyway...im wondering as these are different type batts should they be charged differently?...do they need to be discharged first etc. ?
Ive it back in the van now with the lights on to run it right down hoping it will take a better charge after that...any tips welcome.
Cheers,
Marty.

*Kol*

That type of battery doesnt need to be discharged before it is recharged. That's probably what the problem is. It has probably been discharged fully before which is not good for it. It probably is knackered.

martyc5674

Cheers Kol,
While i cant say whether that was the case or not my belief is that leisure batteries are designed to cope better with repeated discharging so im not sure your theory on it being discharged henc causing a problem is correct??...Anyone know if using a regular car battery cahrger could have damaged it?
Marty.

shanec1928

martyc5674 wrote: »

Cheers Kol,
While i cant say whether that was the case or not my belief is that leisure batteries are designed to cope better with repeated discharging so im not sure your theory on it being discharged henc causing a problem is correct??...Anyone know if using a regular car battery charger could have damaged it?
Marty.

go to a garage and get the battery tested

martyc5674

Cheers lads,
Its a sealed battery so no way of using a hydrometer on it to test the sg of the cells.
All a garage can do is stick a multimeter across it and tell me what i already know...possibly put a load on it which i can do too.
Im pretty cert its had it i suppose what im really asking is, is there something I did wrong..ie "never use a regular car battery charge on your leisure batt"...or "you should always charge by hooking up" etc...but as these dont seem to be the the responses im getting it seems like it has had it and i didnt do anything to speed its death up!!
Just seems strange that the van was charging the battery up pretty well (but as ive never really driven more than an hour i havent given it much of a charge)...however the first time i hook it to a car battery charger it seems to have killed it!!
Marty

merc camper

A leisure battery is very similar to a car battery only different thickness in plates. Leisure battery is designed to give a lower current output over a longer period of time.
When charging leisure batteries u need to know what type it is. If its an open lead acid battery can be charged at higher voltage than a GEL battery. If u have a cheap charger you probably wont be abl;e to change the charging settings dont worry it will probably charge at the lower voltage.
Always try to avoid discharging a leisure battery fully and store the batteries fully charged. If u leave the battery discharged for a long period of time it will kill it.
Halfords is generaly an expensive place to get batteries

Philip

bushy...

Its probably sulphated ( even though leisure batteries are a bit more resistant to it ) .
An intelligent charger should try to break it down and revive it

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motorcycle-battery-charger/optimate-3/

( Bosch and a few more do them too. )
You can leave it hooked up all the time and it'll keep the battery charged up and happy.



Another useful addition would be a Low-Voltage-Disconnect - it will just disconnect the battery before the voltage falls low enough to cause damage

paddyb

I just got one of these batteries recently. They come with a 5 year warranty.

bugsntinas

can an ordinary battery be used as a leisure battery and what is the visable difference between the 2?
only ask as the previous owner of our camper put 2 new batteries on and i think they are both ordinary ones allbeit one smaller than the other

Ferris

I've used a Waeco voltage sensing battery charger for the past 4yrs on a boat and haven't bought a new battery since. Bought it off ebay for 160quid I think. Its a built in unit.

tonykeegan

hi i charge leisurebatt by hooking up then disconnect put multi meter across it to make sure itsfully charged then disconnect it then i re-connect it after 4 wks and recharge it etc while van is in storage. do this every 4wksand you should have no problems i do this for my customers and have had no problems

kelbal

paddyb wrote: »

I just got one of these batteries recently. They come with a 5 year warranty.

I'll be buying one of those Elecsol batteries soon. Marine parts direct in Swords sell the 110Ah one for €150, slightly better value than satellitetv.ie

Aidan_M_M

kelbal wrote: »

I'll be buying one of those Elecsol batteries soon. Marine parts direct in Swords sell the 110Ah one for €150, slightly better value than satellitetv.ie

I couldn't recommend the Elecsol batteries, I've had to replace quite a few! None delivered what was promised.

What do you recommend Aidan? I'd recommend them soon as I figure out where my other 80ah are hiding.

Aidan_M_M

Elecsol and Exide have really proved disappointing , as have the HiVolt ones , for the last few years I've been a staunch supporter of Numax 110ah Wet batteries . I know Calcium/Carbon Rod/Gel/ etc etc are all supposed to be the "best" , but I only have to send at most 2 out of about a hundred back every year . I think the Elecsol and others are more aimed at caravans , or solar charged systems , the big whack from an alternator seems to fry them after a while though . The Numax just seems more stable .

Edit... I think they may have changed the name , but I still refer to them as Numax.. , will check tomorrow.

paddyp

Is it these ones?

http://www.tayna-batteries.ie/Numax-Leisure-Batteries-S37.html

A decent agm battery has great redeeming features however you can easily buy two or three quality wet batteries for the same price especially when you factor in the scrap value of the old ones.

Aidan_M_M

paddyp wrote: »

Is it these ones?

http://www.tayna-batteries.ie/Numax-Leisure-Batteries-S37.html

A decent agm battery has great redeeming features however you can easily buy two or three quality wet batteries for the same price especially when you factor in the scrap value of the old ones.

Um yeah looks the same.

thread crossing...:pac:

I was looking for the data sheet on one of these I found at

http://www.hollybrookps.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-solar-kits.html


and found this

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/library/8.%20Why%20PWM1.pdf

Pretty bold claims. I'm going to see if it can.

paddyp

Nonsense use of pwm as a buzzword. The one linked to is a standard 10euro Chinese job.

kelbal

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

I couldn't recommend the Elecsol batteries, I've had to replace quite a few! None delivered what was promised.

Only saw your post Aidan after I'd bought and installed the battery
What should I look out for over the coming months/years so that I can spot if its a faulty one? It has a 5 year warranty

Elecsol are still a fine battery. I'm satisfied that mine have survived where others would have failed. I have two 125ah one is 3 years old the other is 2.

I've since found about 50ah (re; earlier post) in phantom loads (600ma lighting controller that I rarely turned off) and I can comfortably attribute the rest to cold weather. I usually go about 5 days to a week without charging, and they are in service every day.

Keep them above 12.4v (resting) where possible. Don't overcharge them eg. with 14.7v or more off the alternator (I charge them off the alternator frequently but I stop the charge manually at 14.4v). It's important to have a meter and know/monitor what you are doing otherwise you just can't tell when they need attention. A voltmeter works well but I'm highly tempted to get one of these now I know they exist http://www.bogartengineering.com/products/TriMetric

Don't agressively discharge them, don't leave them in a discharged state where possible. If you see them drop below 12.0v I'd advise turning everything off and letting them rest until you can charge them (although the manufacturers state that critical voltage (25% charge remaining) is 11.5v)).

Because they're sealed you can't check the cells individually with a hydrometer but there is a see-thru glass indicator on top that changes colour when they are; Green = good, yellow = not-so-good, red = bad.

Send away your warranty coupon to register your warranty. Warranty is sometimes subject to testing back at the factory and does not cover abusive disregard for the chemistry (lack of reasonable adherence to manufacturers guidelines). Also to claim the warranty you need to get the malfunctioning one certified as non-serviceable.

Humble eating of words time!
I've been just about everywhere with my clamp ammeter...ooh except the alternator...that's next then.
I've been trying to make my wild approximations more approximately accurate. My phantom load was not 500mA (stated on the 13amp mains adapter) but 100mA (stated on the 9v DC terminal (meter's not that accurate to verify)) .

So in my upward quest of missing amp hours I was close enough to my eldest and by far, most cruelly treated elecsol, to hear it bubbling away while charging at 14.0v. Dead cell after 3 years...not 5. 250 cycles not 1000. Now I did drop it repeatedly to 11v in the first 6 months resting on the manufacturer's assurance it was designed to facilitate this (it's not so don't try). For the next year I charged it at 14.7v repeatedly and had a meter but didn't use it often and linked it to another brand new one (so probably stronger) on non similar length connecting leads (the +ive is twice as long as the -ve). In the last year I've been maintaining them with more kindness and only rarely dropping them below 12.2v trying to keep 12.4v as a cut off...not always successfully.
And another thing the battery has been resting on a 5° > 10° incline as that's the shape of the floor under my driver seat, I wasn't too concerned about this until I killed it now I realise that was foolish too.


Having retired the bad egg, my remaining 125ah (granted it's been pulled down by the other since it's install) I'm calculating is about 80ah and low on electrolyte.
Oh the electrolyte in the bad one is still green by the way...but the level is so low you have to shake it to get it to appear.

I was pretty upset about the false promises sold me by elecsol but on actually writing this I'm still a little impressed I got as long as I did. Just don't believe the "Carbon fibre technology incorporated in the Elecsol range of batteries ensures the battery can be deeper discharged without permanent damage resulting." nonsense...in hindsight if that was true everybody would be making them that way.

Satellite tv haven't replied to my returns request but I'm not inclined to be persistent considering.

Oh yeah and I've been using a cheap non temperature compensating, 50ah under-rated mains charger all the while thinking there was some economy to be had here.

I'm having a serious overhaul in the electrical department this month...there'll be no touring on 40ah.

Sad sad day when a bank becomes a solitary battery.

m8

Having a solar panel connected all the time through a regulator charging the batteries is this a good thing or a bad thing on the life of the battries?

Reason I ask is that I setup a panel last year and it has charged the battries over the time Van was parked but now they are not holding the charge as long as before.

paddyp

m8 wrote: »

Having a solar panel connected all the time through a regulator charging the batteries is this a good thing or a bad thing on the life of the battries?

Reason I ask is that I setup a panel last year and it has charged the battries over the time Van was parked but now they are not holding the charge as long as before.

Charger may be very conservative in output voltage for safety 13.5V for example you won't have a full charge at that voltage and can get a surface charge where the battery voltage indicates a full charge but the capacity doesn't.

A couple of cycles of 20-40% discharge and high current charge with main charger should sort that situation, could be your batteries has just lost some life maybe the self discharge / parasitic discharge (meter panel, leds, gas alarms etc.) over the winter months was more than the panels could supply.

m8

paddyp wrote: »

Charger may be very conservative in output voltage for safety 13.5V for example you won't have a full charge at that voltage and can get a surface charge where the battery voltage indicates a full charge but the capacity doesn't.

A couple of cycles of 20-40% discharge and high current charge with main charger should sort that situation, could be your batteries has just lost some life maybe the self discharge / parasitic discharge (meter panel, leds, gas alarms etc.) over the winter months was more than the panels could supply.

It's a 100W panel and every thing was switched off (no power drain at all)

Aidan_M_M

m8 wrote: »

It's a 100W panel and every thing was switched off (no power drain at all)

What was the condition of the batteries when the panel was fitted?

I'm speculating it's a good thing as it's power in the right direction. They'd certainly be worse off without it. Be prepared to meter the outputs of the charge regulator and compare to the battery poles to ensure you are not getting transmission loss. Regulators measure the voltage at the wires not the batteries. So there may be voltage drop due to too many junctions in the cable, small cores or long runs. Remember that a voltage drop of 0.2v is the difference of 80% and 100% charge. Solar is a complimentary system unless you want to make a big investment and are willing to get up on the roof and tilt them to face the sun and clean on a regular basis. Also check your charge regulator has a compatible output with you battery charge requirements if it's not adjustable.

Aidan_M_M

That's why I fit the regulator beside the battery if at all possible. I dunno guys, it's easy get bogged down in the science of it, I just fit a decent wet battery, a good quality 75w panel with a decent non adjustae regulator , using high quality cabling. And I've never had an issue. In fact, I can't recall having to replace a battery for any customer that got a panel fitted once it was fitted as above.

If it was my choice, ALL MHs would have solar panels.

m8

Regulator.jpgBattries were not bad, about 75% after a weekend of wild camping but our power load is small tbh. Never let them go below 60%.

Now when I turn something on the battery level drops fairly quick to about 60%.


Maybe the battreis were on the way out anyway but I ecxpected them to be better after the long slow charge from the panel.

The regulator is about 5ft cable away from battery with proper good quality cables.


The regulator I bought from internet, the 15A version.

Perhaps this might help diagnosis if you can open them.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_530647_langId_-1_categoryId_255205

m8

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Perhaps this might help diagnosis if you can open them.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_530647_langId_-1_categoryId_255205

Can't seem to open this link.

It's a £5 hydrometer in halfords for testing the specific gravity of the electrolyte.

paddyp

Have you moved the van yet because the acid in the battery may have stratified if its been stationary. If it has been driving about then I wouldn't worry until is had a few charge discharge cycles at decent current.