engineers ireland

CatFromHue

hi
i was just wondering is anyone here a member of engineers ireland?
i had a student membership that has elapsed a couple of years now, and got a letter in the post during the week wanting me to re join.
how would you rate them if you are a member?

Shiny

I'm with them under a graduate membership at the moment
which is still free. I think the membership is pretty worthwhile
in terms off all the presentations and webcasts (which are handy).

I don't know how people feel about paying the full fee of €225 though.


I'm heading to the Spirit of Ireland Presentation in their[Engineers Ireland] headquarters
next week which is limited to members only.

godtabh

Most if not all companies (civil wise anyways) will pay your membership for you.

If you want to become a chartered engineer your meant to be a member for a while.

If your company doesnt pay for it you can claim take back against it

Irjudge1

I believe they have special membership arrangements in place at the moment if you are unemployed.

godtabh

Irjudge1 wrote: »

I believe they have special membership arrangements in place at the moment if you are unemployed.

I think its free

CatFromHue

thanks for the above replies, but is anyone here a mech eng? if so what are there experiences.
When i was with them under the student membership and was getting the magazine i always felt it was aimed at consutling or civil engineers

godtabh

Most members off the IEI are generally civil/structural.

There was a few people during my CEng interview who were also mec eng

Turbulent Bill

CatFromHue wrote: »

thanks for the above replies, but is anyone here a mech eng? if so what are there experiences.
When i was with them under the student membership and was getting the magazine i always felt it was aimed at consutling or civil engineers

I'm a mech, and EI appears to be very civil-based, at least judging by the Engineer's Journal. A standard road project being delivered 6 months early, for example, is likely to get a multiple-page spread, while a significant advance in medical devices is lucky to get a small news item. I realise that the majority of Irish engineers are civil, but the coverage seems very skewed.

That said, the professional development courses / seminars are very good for any engineer, and if your employer will pay the membership then it's a valuable resource.

chris85

I graduated last year and still a member free as a graduate member, I am starting with a company this year and they will pay for my membership as part of the job (as well as one other organisation of my choice)

They seem very civil based but there are also other worthwhile seminars from them. I have been away travelling for last seven months so havent actually been to any but may do now since I am back.

Offy

CatFromHue wrote: »

thanks for the above replies, but is anyone here a mech eng? if so what are there experiences.
When i was with them under the student membership and was getting the magazine i always felt it was aimed at consutling or civil engineers

Im a mechanical engineer (at the moment) and I used to be a member. I never renewed my membership as I felt I got nothing for it except the magazine which is a good read but not revelent to my career.

Murts-Rig

A boring magazine once a month and about five annoying emails a day. Its definitely worth the money!

godtabh

Murts-Rig wrote: »

A boring magazine once a month and about five annoying emails a day. Its definitely worth the money!

Its relevant to some and not to others. Its up to you to make your mind up

Shiny

Murts-Rig wrote: »

A boring magazine once a month and about five annoying emails a day. Its definitely worth the money!

Yeah the magazine has no relevance to me but if I had not of got
any of their emails then I wouldn't know about any of the upcoming
events.

copacetic

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I'm a mech, and EI appears to be very civil-based, at least judging by the Engineer's Journal. A standard road project being delivered 6 months early, for example, is likely to get a multiple-page spread, while a significant advance in medical devices is lucky to get a small news item. I realise that the majority of Irish engineers are civil, but the coverage seems very skewed.

That said, the professional development courses / seminars are very good for any engineer, and if your employer will pay the membership then it's a valuable resource.

I'm not sure thats true, there are probably a lot more elec engineers. However the IEI is definitely nearly all civil or structural, if you aren't one of those it's useless.

Turbulent Bill

copacetic wrote: »

I'm not sure thats true, there are probably a lot more elec engineers. However the IEI is definitely nearly all civil or structural, if you aren't one of those it's useless.

Fair point, I just always got the impression that the majority were civils but I've nothing to back it up. I wonder if there's a breakdown of graduate numbers in the different disciplines somewhere, which would at least show where people start off.

Tar.Aldarion

Well far more are graduating from civil courses.

I am elec and I graduated last year. I have dropped membership for now as the magazine was irrelevant etc.

godtabh

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I am elec and I graduated last year. I have dropped membership for now as the magazine was irrelevant etc.

The magazine isnt what membership is about.

Membership means you are acreddited to work abroad based on the relevant treaties.

Membership allows you to peruse chatership

Membership allows your employeer to charge out more

People should really look at the ins and outs of the IEI before just saying I dont want to be a member as the magazine was irrelevant

Tar.Aldarion

kearnsr wrote: »

The magazine isnt what membership is about.

Membership means you are acreddited to work abroad based on the relevant treaties.

Membership allows you to peruse chatership

Membership allows your employeer to charge out more

People should really look at the ins and outs of the IEI before just saying I dont want to be a member as the magazine was irrelevant

I know these things, sorry I did not mention it. I told them when I get a job I'll be joining back up.
At the moment it is jsut a magazine to me.

Robertd_07

kearnsr wrote: »

Membership means you are acreddited to work abroad based on the relevant treaties.

Membership allows your employeer to charge out more

Would be interested to see where being MIEI means you can charge more for your time. If you're CEng on the otherhand....

Also, it's accreditation of your degree course by EI (EI being a signatory to the Washington & Sydney Accords) that gives your degree equal weight to degrees from other countries, not your personal membership of EI. (To the best of my knowledge)

I personally believe it's worthwhile, but that's my personal opinion. (Especially as a Civil Engineer) I have mech & manufacturing friends who aren't.
Robert

Tar.Aldarion

I read membership as 'chartered', then I think it is true, but not what he literally said. They accredited my course last year again, was on best behaviour.

sparklepants

kearnsr wrote: »

The magazine isnt what membership is about.

Perhaps not,- but the magazine is the tangible "benefit" of membership. It's the institution's shop front if you like. As such, it poorly reflects the interests and experience of the majority of Irish engineers who are not practicing as civil or building services engineers. Perhaps IEI could retain more members and save a lot of money by not circulating the magazine at all.

Membership means you are acreddited to work abroad based on the relevant treaties.

No, this has nothing to do with membership. I note that my primary degree is "accredited". This means that my qualification should be recognised internationally. The fact that I'm not a member does not, and should not, undermine this recognition in any way. Interesting isn't it, that IEI promote this international recognition, and yet they're so poor at achieving recognition for engineering qualifications at home!

Membership allows you to peruse chatership

Yes. But for the majority of engineers there's still little benefit to chartership. A minority of employers in a restricted number of engineering fields might consider paying more for a chartered engineer, but for most of us this isn't the case. IEI have failed to convince employers of the benefits of chartership.

Membership allows your employeer to charge out more

I've never come across a client who is prepared to pay more for an engineer just because (s)he receives a monthly magazine from IEI!

People should really look at the ins and outs of the IEI before just saying I dont want to be a member as the magazine was irrelevant

Agreed. However, if an engineer says that "I dont want to be a member as the magazine was irrelevant", then that reflects more poorly on the institution than it does on the engineer.

godtabh

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I know these things, sorry I did not mention it. I told them when I get a job I'll be joining back up.
At the moment it is jsut a magazine to me.

Its free to be a member if you dont have a job so not being a member makes even less sesnse and probably more hassle to cancel it

Tar.Aldarion

kearnsr wrote: »

Its free to be a member if you dont have a job so not being a member makes even less sesnse and probably more hassle to cancel it

It's 35E as far as i recall. Wasn't told this until after I cancelled and hadn't looked it up earlier. They just sent out the more expensive price to graduates which is half the full fees, for the first year.

peter_de_tool

The UK engineering institutions no longer accept Irish "accredited" degrees as they do not meet min. educational requirements, and therefore no longer recognise Irish Engineers who qualified after 1998. So who does?

The multinational I work for treats a level 8 Bachelors degrees as a technician level qualification, to be classified as an Engineer, you must possess a least an (Dip. Ing, diplôme national d’ingénieur,or M.Eng). Being a C.Eng or an ordinary member of the IEI means diddly squat to our HR department in Frankfurt. So what is the IEI good for?

hudsonriver

peter_de_tool wrote: »

The UK engineering institutions no longer accept Irish "accredited" degrees as they do not meet min. educational requirements, and therefore no longer recognise Irish Engineers who qualified after 1998. So who does?

The multinational I work for treats a level 8 Bachelors degrees as a technician level qualification, to be classified as an Engineer, you must possess a least an (Dip. Ing, diplôme national d’ingénieur,or M.Eng). Being a C.Eng or an ordinary member of the IEI means diddly squat to our HR department in Frankfurt. So what is the IEI good for?

Id like to hear more about this? never knew it was the case before

Robertd_07

peter_de_tool wrote: »

The UK engineering institutions no longer accept Irish "accredited" degrees as they do not meet min. educational requirements, and therefore no longer recognise Irish Engineers who qualified after 1998.

As far as I can work out, that isn't true. http://www.iei.ie/membership/international-agreements/
Anyone who graduates from an Engineers Ireland accredited degree course in an Irish uni is eligible to apply for CEng, along with the required postgrad experience.
This means their degree qualification is equivalent to an engineering degree from any other country in europe.
They are also eligible to apply for professional recognition from other professional institutions.
See the number of Irish engineers sitting the IStructE exams every year. I'm assuming that they're not doing that cause they like studying and doing exams for fun.

peter_de_tool

Robertd_07 wrote: »

As far as I can work out, that isn't true. http://www.iei.ie/membership/international-agreements/
Anyone who graduates from an Engineers Ireland accredited degree course in an Irish uni is eligible to apply for CEng, along with the required postgrad experience.
This means their degree qualification is equivalent to an engineering degree from any other country in europe.
They are also eligible to apply for professional recognition from other professional institutions.
See the number of Irish engineers sitting the IStructE exams every year. I'm assuming that they're not doing that cause they like studying and doing exams for fun.

They are sitting IStructE exams because their degree does no longer meets minimum educational STANDARD required to apply for CEng Of the IStructE, you do not require to sit these exams if have an approved M.Eng. The IMECHE has similar requirements. An aaccredited irish degree only entitles you apply for associated membership and further study is required if you planning to apply for C.eng.

peter_de_tool

I know from experience, having lived in Finland for several years, TEK (Union/association for engineers) requires its members to have at least a level 9 qualification (Masters or Doctorate) and IEI membership counts for nothing. Bachelor degree holders are entitled to join the technicians association.

budhabob

Robertd_07 wrote: »

As far as I can work out, that isn't true. http://www.iei.ie/membership/international-agreements/
Anyone who graduates from an Engineers Ireland accredited degree course in an Irish uni is eligible to apply for CEng, along with the required postgrad experience.
This means their degree qualification is equivalent to an engineering degree from any other country in europe.
They are also eligible to apply for professional recognition from other professional institutions.
See the number of Irish engineers sitting the IStructE exams every year. I'm assuming that they're not doing that cause they like studying and doing exams for fun.

I have to say that i was under this impression also. Peter, can you confirm in more detail any of your claims?

Robertd_07

peter_de_tool wrote: »

They are sitting IStructE exams because their degree does no longer meets minimum educational STANDARD required to apply for CEng Of the IStructE, you do not require to sit these exams if have an approved M.Eng. The IMECHE has similar requirements. An aaccredited irish degree only entitles you apply for associated membership and further study is required if you planning to apply for C.eng.

This is not true at all.
I personally have no interest in joining the IStrucE, so had to look this up.
If you went to university in the UK, IStructE require a masters to achieve CEng then;
[Candidates who wish to progress to Chartered Membership must hold an Institution (of Structural Engineers) accredited MEng degree (normally 4 years full time or the equivalent)]

If you completed your degree outside the uk then;
[Candidates holding a degree in civil and/or structural engineering recognised under an international agreement e.g. Washington Accord, FEANI etc currently meet the academic requirements for Chartered Membership.]

EVERYONE, regardless of degree awarded has to do an exam to join IStructE.

More info here - IStructE Website

I'm sure there are people here who know more of this than I do from reading the IStructE website. Maybe they can elaborate.

Don't know anything about engineering in Finland, so can't say.

peter_de_tool

This has been taken from Engineering Council (UK) website

"The Engineering Council (UK) now requires a master's-level qualification for Chartered Engineer registration, the other Washington Accord signatories have not raised the level of qualification (it remains at the bachelor's degree-level). A recent International Engineering Alliance (IEA) meeting brought forth these issues regarding the Washington Accord. It was unanimously agreed that all Washington Accord countries will look to follow the path taken by the UK and raise the requirement for professional engineer registration to the master's degree-level. In the meantime, the Engineering Council (UK) will restrict registration of those that hold bachelor's degree qualifications from Washington Accord countries. And reciprocally many current UK qualified Chartered Engineers are not eligible for licensing as Professional Engineers in Canada and the United States since they do not have engineering degree level education. Licensing bodies in North America assess each Chartered Engineers application for P.E / P.Eng on a case by case basis."

Essentially Irish engineers who only possess a bachelor's degree and graduated after 1998, can no longer register for chartered status in the UK.

godtabh

peter_de_tool wrote: »

This has been taken from Engineering Council (UK) website

"The Engineering Council (UK) now requires a master's-level qualification for Chartered Engineer registration, the other Washington Accord signatories have not raised the level of qualification (it remains at the bachelor's degree-level). A recent International Engineering Alliance (IEA) meeting brought forth these issues regarding the Washington Accord. It was unanimously agreed that all Washington Accord countries will look to follow the path taken by the UK and raise the requirement for professional engineer registration to the master's degree-level. In the meantime, the Engineering Council (UK) will restrict registration of those that hold bachelor's degree qualifications from Washington Accord countries. And reciprocally many current UK qualified Chartered Engineers are not eligible for licensing as Professional Engineers in Canada and the United States since they do not have engineering degree level education. Licensing bodies in North America assess each Chartered Engineers application for P.E / P.Eng on a case by case basis."

Essentially Irish engineers who only possess a bachelor's degree and graduated after 1998, can no longer register for chartered status in the UK.

Where does it say anything about Irish engineers? As far as I know you can still get chattered in Ireland and transfer to the UK.

Getting chattered in the UK is alot more difficult than Ireland. I'm working in Manchester now and there is a lot of talk about it. Many companies are opposing the new requirements and there is some debate about it here.

If you dont have a masters it just means it takes longer to get chattered. You become incorporated first and then move on

Dilbert75

AFAIK if you graduate before 2013 with a degree from an accredited Irish course, you'll be eligible for C.Eng. After that you need Masters.

godtabh

Dilbert75 wrote: »

AFAIK if you graduate before 2013 with a degree from an accredited Irish course, you'll be eligible for C.Eng. After that you need Masters.

I got a letter in the post about that on Friday. Dont all accredit courses have end with a Masters?

Robertd_07

For my own information, and to satisfy that pedantic urge, I emailed the ECUK who confirmed that they will accept an IEI accredited degree as satisfying the academic requirements for achieving CEng in the Uk.

You are correct that the UK minimum standard is now a master degree. However, ECUK continues to honour its obligations under the Washington Accord and so will recognise your IEI accredited honours degree as meeting our CEng requirement.

Also Engineers Ireland are in the process of changing the academic requirements for achiveing CEng in Ireland.

With effect from programmes completed in 2013, the education standard for the professional title of Chartered Engineer will be a Master degree in engineering (Level 9) as defined in Section
B of Part 1 of this document.
The education standard for the grade of MIEI will remain an honours Bachelor of Engineering degree (Level 8) as defined in Section A of Part 1 of this document, up to 2018.