Trail/Mountain Running Shoes

ThisRegard

spurscormac wrote: »

For what you say, I'd be wary of the sole on the Roclites, looks quite like a road shoe, not sure how much grip for wet grass, descent, but prob fine on the road and other sections.

I have the Roclite 295s and the grip is exemplary, are you sure it was the grips of the Roclite you looked at as the sole is nothing like a road shoe ? For example in the recent IMRA race on Djouce, which was wet and boggy in places, I never felt like I was going to slip at any stage (although I did have a fall but it wasn't due to a slip). I've worn them in so many wet and slippy races without fear of loosing grip, unlike for example in a pair of Salamons I have. I've also worn them in dry conditions on trail as they're so comfy.

spurscormac

ThisRegard wrote: »

I have the Roclite 295s and the grip is exemplary, are you sure it was the grips of the Roclite you looked at as the sole is nothing like a road shoe ? For example in the recent IMRA race on Djouce, which was wet and boggy in places, I never felt like I was going to slip at any stage (although I did have a fall but it wasn't due to a slip). I've worn them in so many wet and slippy races without fear of loosing grip, unlike for example in a pair of Salamons I have. I've also worn them in dry conditions on trail as they're so comfy.

I stand corrected and bow to your personal experience.
The image I was looking at was a smaller version of this: http://www.startfitness.co.uk/uploads/images_products_large/37797.jpg

In the smaller version, it did look like the tread wasn't very deep or wide, but seems its better from the larger pic & your own experience.

gooch134

Thanks a million for the advice guys. I have decided on the Roclite 295's. Now all I have to do is find a size 10. I have two weeks to get them. Really appreciate your inputs.

see ya at the starting line

HelenAnne

Hello!

I've read through this whole thread, loads of great suggestions, thanks, everyone! There are so many recommendations for trails runs for different types of races though, like adventure ones and multi-event ones, that I'm still not sure whar would be best as a 'basic' trail shoe.

So, question 1)
I've done one mountain run (run the line) & several urban trails & other trail races. I'd like a basic trail shoes that I could wear to IMRA races that have mountain & trail & bog & heather, and also to trail runs like Urban Trails & the reservoir run that have bits of tarmac / road mixed in with grass and trails. What sort of shoe would be best for this?

And 2)
You know the way with road shoes everyone gets gait analysis and takes time picking a shoe? Are trail shoes more like spikes, that once they're neutral etc they are fine becuse you dodn't need as much cushioning when you're not on roads?

Thank you!!

mrroboito

Just to add my tuppence ha'pworth here, I have had two pairs of trail running shoes; Salomon Wings 2 and Adidas Kanadia. The Salomons were amazing (they are a little on the heavy side though), they took a good bit of abuse and just dried out and were ready to go again the next day with no fuss, no smell and no discomfort. I loved the lacing system and really missed it when I changed over to the Adidas as I never felt I could get the shoes and laces tight enough while the laces opened mid-race a couple of times (some tape sorted this for me though). I used them in a number of road 10ks as well as Moxie, Gaelforce, IMRA (x2), Urban Trails, while my training runs are on lakeshore (sand, stone, grass, forest) or forest/bog trails.
Anyway, after about 12 months part of the insole of the Salomons wore out and gave me blisters, other than that I would still be using them, maybe I can get new insoles. There are a few holes in the fabric part of the shoe but that's the very least I'd expect of them.
As for the Adidas, I have been weraing them full time (after going half and half with the Adidas for a month or so) since the turn of the year and they are smelly with awkward laces, a great big tear in the fabric upper already and I'm picking up quite a few random niggling injuries (there is absolutely no proof that this is the fault of the shoes but I have to suspect them as I had zero problems last year). I don't really like them but in fairness they have seen me through a few IMRA races and have performed admirably in terms of grip. They are also lighter than the Salomons.
I'm going to the shop next week for a new pair of Salomons I'd say, my research brought me to this page for a wee vent. Aaaah.

spurscormac

mrroboito wrote: »

I'm going to the shop next week for a new pair of Salomons I'd say, my research brought me to this page for a wee vent. Aaaah.

Have a look at Inov-8 for trail shoes before you splash out on the Salomons.
They have a great variety for all sorts of conditions.

I have an old pair of Salomon Speedcross, the sole wore quickly & they blister the crap out of my feet now if I race in them.
Though I will say, the mesh upper & quick-lace system are very good.

Have a pair of Inov-8 Trailrocs now, good for multiple conditions, and as I run in Inov-8 road shoes too, the fit and feel of the shoes is exactly the same.

Worth considering before you splash out.

mrroboito

I'd love a pair of Inov8s, they look cool, any particular model of Trailroc? In fairness to my Salomons the soles are still in fine order. I think that the Wings might have a more durable sole than the Speedcross though. Do you know of a shop that sells both brands so I can compare directly and easily?

copacetic

53 degrees do both. I've had speedcross and xapro from salomon and various flyrocs from inov8. Personally I've found inov8s more comfortable.

spurscormac

mrroboito wrote: »

I'd love a pair of Inov8s, they look cool, any particular model of Trailroc? In fairness to my Salomons the soles are still in fine order. I think that the Wings might have a more durable sole than the Speedcross though. Do you know of a shop that sells both brands so I can compare directly and easily?

I have the trailroc 245, its the middle model of their initial Trailroc range, with 3mm heel-toe drop (though they do have the uber-lightweight Trailroc 150 out now, though its as minimal as you can get).
I know that Amphibian King sell Inov-8, though not Salomon. I believe 53 Degrees North do both brands, you'd probably want to check in advance if they have what you're looking for in stock.

Note though that Inov-8 have no pronation support & are much more stripped back shoes than the built up looking Salomon. Having said that, some shoes do come with a 9mm heel-toe drop (not the trailroc, its got 6mm max).
Also worth noting is the fact that the Trailroc is on the wider last (used to be anatomic, now rebranded neutral or natural I believe), and most of the other trail shoes come in the narrower Performance last.

mrroboito

Thanks for all the info. I think I'll take a look at the Trailroc 255. They don't seem to have it in Blanchardstown though, just the 245.

b.harte

+1 on inov-8
I've a pair of Trailroc 255 and a pair of terrafly 303 (2nd pair of these on their way as we speak)
Be aware that the offroad shoes seem to run a bit small, I'm an 11 in the road-x line but an 11.5 in both the trailroc and terrafly.
All of them are really comfy, the wide toe box is great.
Grip wise they do what they are supposed to do.
The trailroc are really good on most surfaces, a bit harsh on road but perfect for offroad trails. The only slippage I've had is on sheet moss / slime on a hard compacted base, but to be fair almost any other shoe would have slipped as well.
I've had no issue on rocks, mud, loose gravel, grass, heather, small furry animals, expossed roots, etc.
I've even ran down a MTB downhill track in them,
HELMET CAM VIDEO OF TRACK
next week I'm going to try to run up it
The rock guard / bumper is great, I've felt the shoe get a few knocks every now and then.

The terrafly are not really a proper offroad shoe, but excel at runs where there is a road section or really hard compacted gravel, where grip isn't critical. The are more comfortable over distance than the trairoc, but are let down with lack of grip on proper muddy stuff.

The best thing I've found about inov-8 in general is how good they are straight out of the box, just a really comfortable fit.
The only gripe I have (and it might be just to do with my foot shape) is the last lace eyelet is vary far back, I find I have had to delace to get a good fit without the laces pinching into the top of my foot. (all 3 pairs I have are the same)

I also have a very battered and torn pair of adidas kanadia and they are a good shoe, I never suffered with any pain / niggles with them, there are firm on hard surfaces so I stuck in a pair of insoles. Similar story with the mesh going to bits, the toe box gave up early, but some needle work and duct tape did the trick. There are on special at the minute on sportsshoes.com so might be a viable option.

Having said that, inov-8 are a far better shoe, albeit at a premium price.

Bertie

ThisRegard

Another plus from me for Innov8. I'm on my second pair of Roclite 295s and love them, they're the most comfortable shoes I have. I also have a pair of Salomon XT Wings 2 which were fine for short runs but any sort of distance left me with shredded arches. While waiting for my second 295s to arrive I wore the Salomons to a race and it felt as if I was wearing platforms, felt very unstable and awkward after wearing the roclites for so long and I ended up going over on my ankle.

mrroboito

I'm intrigued by the Salomons platform thing. I've read that in a few places. Maybe I was a bit spoiled by them, bouncing around in highly padded luxury all the while entertaining vague notions of transferring to a minimal drop (and eventually to just socks). They actually have a drop of 12mm. Anyone know what the drop is in the Kanadias?

spurscormac

mrroboito wrote: »

I'm intrigued by the Salomons platform thing. I've read that in a few places. Maybe I was a bit spoiled by them, bouncing around in highly padded luxury all the while entertaining vague notions of transferring to a minimal drop (and eventually to just socks). They actually have a drop of 12mm. Anyone know what the drop is in the Kanadias?

Google is your friend...seems its 11/12mm according to this site
runningwarehouse is usually good to give the drop, but doesn't appear to have the Kanadia listed.

statss

guys...read the thread from start to finish....good info here....almost settled on the salomon cross max as they claim to be "door to trail" as this suits me as it's usually 5/6 miles from my house to the mountains. however I want to try out 2/3 different brands before deciding....which is the directly comparable inov 8 product? is it the roclite or trailroc?

also, I'm assuming either shoe would stand up well to normal hiking?

spurscormac

The Trailroc & the Roclite are both Inov-8 jack of all trades shoes, look at the rating for Hard/Loose/Soft on each shoe:-

Trailroc 245
Roclite 243

From that you can see that the Trailroc is better for hard surface, but apparently not as good on soft (not sure I'd agree on the soft rating myself).

The other main difference between the two shoes is the last, the trailroc is wider fitting than the roclite, so worth considering if you have wider or narrower feet, or try both to see which suits you best.

Here's the link for the entire Inov-8 trail collection

Actually - looking at that, some of the roclites have a comfort fit & there's also the terrafly to consider for good hard ground performance - not so good in the loose or soft though.

nerraw1111

I’ve had the trailroc for over 3 months and they are great for trails, fire roads, stone/rocks etc.

They’re not great on thick mud though but that is in comparison to the likes of the mudroc or x talon. Trailroc tend to slide rather than grip in heavy mud.

In the mudroc, I’d be confident on sticking most foot placements whereas with the trailroc, I’d be a bit more cautious on mud and water logged grass etc.

They are perfect for trails. I used them in the recent Wicklow trail race and they were brilliant. Great in the snow and the general slop and puddles of Djouce but still comfortable to hammer the fire road descents and tarmac. 26km and they were comfy right up to the end. The x talons/mudroc are not very forgiving on fireroad/road.

I’ve never tried Saloman so have no idea how they compare.

Jnealon

More Mile cheviots from start fitness might be worth a try.
Talking to a couple of imra guys who rate them and the online reviews are quite good

statss

I went to try out the Soloman Cross Max yesterday but was told they were no longer stocked, I was directed towards the Soloman XR Mission in it's place. Some difference between these things and my road runners :eek: They felt okay though and I could see myself using them for recovery road runs aswell. Need to try the Innov8's now to compare.

mrroboito

I bought the Inov8 Trailroc 255s. Went into 53 Degrees North in Carrickmines and tried them on. They fit beautifully and I was able to get them properly snug with the laces. I wore them indoors for a day or so and then to work for two days before deciding to keep them and go for a run. Did an 8k trail run and it was all good. Very happy with them so far and I don't see why that would change (I hope I still feel the same after the Cooley Legends half marathon next week).
I still have nothing against the Salomons and I'd have no hesitation in recommending them.

statss

I went to have look at Inov8' earlier and on my way to the shop I popped into Elverys and got my gait analysed for the craic...it seems I'm a pronator so Inov8's might not be the best idea. Looking at the Mizuno Ascends now. The Soloman Missions seem to give people blisters, judging from this review http://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/?brands=salomon, so I am none the wiser at the moment!

spurscormac

statss wrote: »

I went to have look at Inov8' earlier and on my way to the shop I popped into Elverys and got my gait analysed for the craic...it seems I'm a pronator so Inov8's might not be the best idea. Looking at the Mizuno Ascends now. The Soloman Missions seem to give people blisters, judging from this review http://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/?brands=salomon, so I am none the wiser at the moment!

Did they give you any indication as the level of pronation, is it in both feet, are there different levels in both feet?
My guess would be, probably not.

I would always advise a 2nd opinion of any gait analysis from Elvery's.

Oh - and did they recommend buying their custom insoles? :rolleyes:

b.harte

statss wrote: »

got my gait analysed for the craic...it seems I'm a pronator so Inov8's might not be the best idea....so I am none the wiser at the moment!

My 0.02c is that pronation, unless its very severe doesn't matter so much off road due to the varying terrain, even on a gravel fire road etc.
This isn't based on anything other than my own experience, so could be completely wrong. But, given that I am allegedly and over-pronator (based on GA in reputable running stores) and how all of my shoes are neutral nikes or inov-8 I seem to be managing okay. (FWIW: the recommended support shoes left me in pain)

I think the low drop of the inov-8 or comparable shoes tends to change how your foot lands so the extreme pronation noticed at the heel is lessened / less severe as the natural arch of the foot works a bit more to balance all the forces out.
Again, I would like to stress this is my own opinion, not founded in science or anything remotely related to an understanding of bio-mechanics.
But, as plenty of other posters, on plenty of other threads here have said, find a shoe that is comfortable for your run and use that. You will notice right away if you are in the "wrong" shoe so don't buy an expensive shoe based on my or any one else's ramblings / reviews.
I can't recommend inov-8 trailroc 255 more highly, from 0km they were superb, if your after an shoe for just banging about in on an odd trail run then the kanadia is more than up to the task and half the price.
However if you do go for the inov08 you will be spending most of you time getting muddy, because they are that good.

Happy hunting

mossym

wouldn't trust elverys gait analysis at all. told me the same thing, but several subsequent encounters with doctors running video analysis and a much better shop(AK) all say i'm a neutral runner. waste of time getting it done at elverys

statss

I hear you all re Elevery's and I took what he said with a pinch of salt. (I got my road racers in AK after trying on about 5 different pairs, I never got my gait analysed though, but their store locations are not convenient for me)

However, I was doing the old "wet my foot in a paper towel" trick to guess my gait this morning so as I was walking by Elverys on the way to Base Camp at lunch to check out the Innov8's I thought sure it would do no harm to pop in, because my head was being melted trying to pick a pair of trail shoes.

The guy, to my surprise, seemed to know what he was talking about. The shop was dead so he spent about 15 minutes with me. I was upfront right at the start and said I don't think Elevery's carry what I am looking for but would he mind going through my gait anyway and I'd possibly consider a Brooks day to day trainer off him at a later date. He did mention the insoles alright but he put me under no pressure to buy anything. I think he was glad to get away from the till for a while and have the chats!

He said I have a low arch and pronate slightly, my left foot a little more so than my right. He emailed me a PDF showing an image of my feet and the resulting suggestion.

Long story short, on my way home from work after my previous posts this afternoon I used a €50 voucher for Champions Sports which has been burning a hole in my pocket since Christmas and picked up a pair of Adidas Kanadia's 5 for €18! Problem sorted in the short term, at least until I do enough volume on trails to justify a €80-100+ outlay. I'll give them a whirl on Saturday over the weekend.

spurscormac

He probably didn't try the hard sell as he knew you weren't buying, however I have serious concerns over the pdf provided.
They are recommending stability/motion control AND insoles.

Their claim on the insoles is that they will help realignment, from what I've seen, all they do is heat up the insoles & mold them to your feet, similar to what's done with snowboarding boot insoles.
I can't see how that performs any realignment.
On top of that, proper insoles should only ever be used with neutral shoes, as custom insoles should perform the same function that stability/motion control shoes do, i.e. help in correcting your alignment.
If you combine effective custom insoles with stability/motion control shoes, you are over correcting the problem & going to cause further problems (not that I believe their insoles do any correction mind, its just an unnecessary add-on, like Ryanair Priority Queue).

He may well have read your gait correctly, but the recommendation is wrong.

Finally, I'd be in full agreement with b.harte on the lack of a built up heel in the Inov-8 encouraging a better foot-strike, thereby reducing the amount of over-pronation. In fact I've found exactly this since I moved to Inov-8 for both road & trail shoes. Their whole shoe design philosophy is built around this.
If the guy in Elvery's was indeed right, and your just a slight over-pronator, then I think you wouldn't have much problems coping with something like an Inov-8 shoe.
Remember, on trails, you'll be picking your way through muddy, rocky, stony rough terrain with possible tree roots etc, so you'll be much more aware of foot placement and more on your toes than on a standard road run.

I still strongly advise getting to AK, Runways or somewhere like that to have a trustworthy assessment done.

statss

yeah I agree, and thanks for informative input both of you, I'll make the time to get out to AK again.

ThisRegard

I over pronate but it doesn't really matter when it comes to trail shoes, you spend a lot of your time on your toes or uneven ground anyway as the guys said.

mossym

spurscormac wrote: »

H


Finally, I'd be in full agreement with b.harte on the lack of a built up heel in the Inov-8 encouraging a better foot-strike, thereby reducing the amount of over-pronation. In fact I've found exactly this since I moved to Inov-8 for both road & trail shoes. Their whole shoe design philosophy is built around this.
I

i just fininshed a course of treatment in the sport surgery clinic in sanrty, part of which was a run clinic, where they used multiple cameras to monitor my running. seems i was a complete heel striker, but they've managed to change me voer to a mid sole striker now, which shuld help with the issues i was having

they also recommended i try a shoe with less drop, had been in brooks ghost 5, which i still run in, but picked up a pair of saucony kinvara 3's and love running in them, the hugely reduced heel to toe drop makes the mid foot strike much easier and feel more natural, so totally agree with this

PaulieC

I had a pair of the Kanadia 4 and my main gripe with them was the lack of lateral grip in muddy conditions. This was due to the side to side direction of the lugs. This looks to have been sorted in the Kanadia 5, so in my opinion they should be a decent pair of general purpose trail shoes.