"Pride"

LegacyUser

I am in no way trying to be incendiary, this is a genuine question. Why celebrate "pride"? What is there to celebrate about being gay? It is simply a sexuality, an aspect of a person, like their hair colour (heh, more complex socially of course). I do not see, nor do I want to see being gay as a defining thing in my life, why do others? Why make it almost political? Is it some form of perceived social rebellion, cultural cultivation, post-liberation celebration, simply an excuse to party, or an attempt to attract attention to gay rights (if so, how does a merry parade help?...there is no detectable serious tone). Ill accept any answer, and I have no problem with any of them, or pride itself, its just seems odd to me why people would show "pride" in the first place.

L1011

Dublin Pride started as a protest against a homophobic murder in Fairview Park IIRC; and in a society which is still unequal there is still a place for it on those grounds. Ireland still has deep inequalities.

Its also a great excuse to go out on the lash, which is the main reason anything is done in Ireland...

oisindoyle

Do gay people have equality ? NO they dont so this years PRIDE march is about equality as far as I know ...
Pride Day is fantastic its great fun for ALL..Plus its the only day of the year where I can walk through town holding my partners hand without fear of abuse .
Until I get equality and can walk freely anywhere in Ireland holding my partners hand ;I think Pride marches will continue

Trance

The fact that we're still running around screaming about how we're gay, at this stage, is only prolonging the diminishment of the stigma attached to homosexuality. If we want to show people that being gay is completely normal why are we at the same time parading about it?

Your sexual preference is nothing to be proud of. It's not an achievement. Gays just can't seem to grasp that concept though. The fact that we feel the need to mince around the streets shouting, screaming and celebrating our sexuality antagonizes straight people. By doing it still we're only further differentiating and ostracizing ourselves.

The jaded equality arguement that we use I will admit is the perfect excuse. By using it, we cause anyone in this county with any sort of power to be absolutely terrified to speak out and say something negative about Pride. We could cause uproar and crucify them for trying to infringe on our rights.

Nevyn

It's not just about being gay it is also about different sexual and gender diversity.
IT is about being seen and I think we still need that atm in this country but there will come a time when it is more celebration then demonstration.
I do think that Pride needs to be more inclusive, got called a breeder a few years back when I was in town with my kids by a section of the parade was not impressed.

unreggd

Trance wrote: »

The fact that we're still running around screaming about how we're gay, at this stage, is only prolonging the diminishment of the stigma attached to homosexuality. If we want to show people that being gay is completely normal why are we at the same time parading about it?

+1

Excessive "pride" isnt the only alternative to shame
It's like sayin "if ur not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" it's bullsh;t

As was said above, its not an achievement
If it is, then I shall be headlining eyeball pride 2009, woo
"They're here, they let me see, DEAL WITH IT"

and Gender ID + sexuality shouldn't be in the same category tbh

Dark Artist

It's not really about being proud. It's more about not being ashamed. There are still thousands of gay people in Ireland scared to come out because we still live in an imperfect society where people are mocked and discriminated against because of their sexuality.

I've said this before - there's no 'straight' parade because straight people have never felt the inescapable despair and entrapment that every gay person feels at some stage.

Of course sexuality in itself isn't an achievement. The achievement that's being celebrated is the achievement of the gay person who is brave enough to just be themselves, which is still an extremely difficult thing to do.

Aard

oisindoyle wrote: »

Until I get equality and can walk freely anywhere in Ireland holding my partners hand ;I think Pride marches will continue

So let me get this right: At the parade, you go around holding your partner's hand, amidst rainbow flags and drag queens, then for the other 364 days of the year, you don't even give him/her a peck on the cheek?


Where's the "pride" in that?

seanybiker

Although us straight people dont have marches and all that to celebrate being straight, I can imagine if we did it would be classed as us being homophobic.
March away and enjoy yourselfs. Your not harming anyone and as somebody already said, ye can show love without feeling weird. I can find people flaunting their sexuality annoying, mainly because I couldnt give a fiddlers if your heterosexual, homosexual even Asexual (lol). So dont understand why people feel the need to tell everyone what sexuality they are. Saying that, I imagine this pride march to be a right laugh for all involved. My twin brother is gay but doesnt go to marches because he finds all the flaunting a bit ott. Horses for courses I suppose. Anyways enjoy yourselves and have a drink for me.:)

dan719

oisindoyle wrote: »

Pride Day is fantastic its great fun for ALL..Plus its the only day of the year where I can walk through town holding my partners hand without fear of abuse .
Until I get equality and can walk freely anywhere in Ireland holding my partners hand ;I think Pride marches will continue

I'm just curious but what convinces you that you would be abused? I would often hold another guy's hand in Dublin and no-one bats an eyelid. Even if they did, who cares?

Also agree with the poster(s) that stated that doing small things like holding hands in public etc would do far more for the de- stigmatisation* of homosexuality than divisive and often annoying 'pride' marches.

*May not be a word but I'm still hungover from last night.

dny123456

We need to have a pride day to show that our society and political system is (and continues to be) inclusive enough to allow it. We also need pride to show solidarity to the many billions who are not as fortunate as us to enjoy such freedom and acceptance...

that... and its a great excuse to enjoy yourself, get pissed, meet friends.

Bit like Paddy's day

Aard

dny123456 wrote: »

We need to have a pride day to show that our society and political system is (and continues to be) inclusive enough to allow it.

Wow. The first thing that comes to mind is those Americans who say, "I have a gun because it's a constitutional right to have one."

Just because our society is inclusive, doesn't mean that we have to parade through the city waving flags and wearing Speedos.

dny123456 wrote: »

We also need pride to show solidarity to the many billions who are not as fortunate as us to enjoy such freedom and acceptance...

I take it you're refering to places where homosexuality is illegal. I'm at a loss as to how a parade shows solidarity with them. Is it that the leaders of such countries will hear about it and go, "Well if Ireland allows it, why not Iran?" I don't think so. If anything, it will just incense them more; Pride Parade is not representative of all gay people - just the look-at-me, we're-here-we're-queer types.

LegacyUser

This is my take on the purpose of pride -1. It's supposed to be a pan-sexual procession, who says straight people can't come and show their support!? surely pride is supposed to be an inclusive event, and 2. visibility- so that other gay (l.g.b.t) people can be aware of the various social, support groups in the community. 3. Political- There is always a speaker at the end of the procession, some have been more intelligent speakers than others. sometimes they have some interesting points to make on important gay issues...marriage, bullying etc... also some positive steps that have been made over the past year pertaining to certain issues.

Cabbage Brained

Jeez, lighten up a bit will you OP?

dny123456

Aard wrote: »

Pride Parade is not representative of all gay people - just the look-at-me, we're-here-we're-queer types.

I'm not a 'look-at-me', we're-here-we're-queer' type and have never worn speedos or waved a flag through the city centre! If you actually go to the pride march, most of the people you will see, quietly walk the route. The news reports and videos you see on the net are full of that, but most people are just, what you would probably conside, 'normal', walking down the road and having a laugh.

Aard wrote: »

Is it that the leaders of such countries will hear about it and go, "Well if Ireland allows it, why not Iran?" I don't think so.

No, of course not, but it may give the gay people (and gay supportive) in those countries the courage to self organise and realise that not all societies treat them as freaks.

It also gives our own politicians an opportunity to express where they stand on LGBT rights. For example Eamon Ryan marched last year... I didn't see any speedos!

Remember, while we have it pretty good in this country and have a lot to be thankful for, civil union has not yet been legislated for and there is still quite a lot of homophobia in our little country. A lot done, but a little bit left to do.

Happy pride

pepsi1234

I'm against how these people hijack our sexuality and reinforce a negative gay stereotype. No wonder the general public are against gay adoption. Someone walking the streets in a leather costume does not exactly paint a picture of responsibility or maturity.
If doctors had such a parade 'just for being doctors' and carried on in the same manner, do you think they would gain or lose respect from the general public?

dny123456

pepsi1234 wrote: »

I'm against how these people hijack our sexuality and reinforce a negative gay stereotype. No wonder the general public are against gay adoption. Someone walking the streets in a leather costume does not exactly paint a picture of responsibility or maturity.
If doctors had such a parade 'just for being doctors' and carried on in the same manner, do you think they would gain or lose respect from the general public?

Have you actually been to the pride festival?

oisindoyle

Trance wrote: »

The fact that we're still running around screaming about how we're gay, at this stage, is only prolonging the diminishment of the stigma attached to homosexuality. If we want to show people that being gay is completely normal why are we at the same time parading about it?

Your sexual preference is nothing to be proud of. It's not an achievement. Gays just can't seem to grasp that concept though. The fact that we feel the need to mince around the streets shouting, screaming and celebrating our sexuality antagonizes straight people. By doing it still we're only further differentiating and ostracizing ourselves.

The jaded equality arguement that we use I will admit is the perfect excuse. By using it, we cause anyone in this county with any sort of power to be absolutely terrified to speak out and say something negative about Pride. We could cause uproar and crucify them for trying to infringe on our rights.

What a load of Tosh!

Aard

oisindoyle wrote: »

What a load of Tosh!

Care to elaborate?

ixoy

I was reading an article (more of an opinion piece) on the Scientific American website that said that many straight people, who will believe perfectly well in gay people's right, maystill feel an inner sense of revulsion if they saw two gay men kiss, that it's something often caused by seeing something that deviates from their perception of normal as it doesn't fit into the context of their daily lives.

Now with that in mind, surely a more pro-active idea (as the article suggests) would be if people were that bit braver and held their partner's hand in public and showed them more affection. I believe that would be far more beneficial than a singe day's actions, that's less a political statement than an excuse to have a day out.

oisindoyle

ixoy wrote: »

I was reading an article (more of an opinion piece) on the Scientific American website that said that many straight people, who will believe perfectly well in gay people's right, maystill feel an inner sense of revulsion if they saw two gay men kiss, that it's something often caused by seeing something that deviates from their perception of normal as it doesn't fit into the context of their daily lives.

Now with that in mind, surely a more pro-active idea (as the article suggests) would be if people were that bit braver and held their partner's hand in public and showed them more affection. I believe that would be far more beneficial than a singe day's actions, that's less a political statement than an excuse to have a day out.

Very few gay /lesbian people will hold hands in public due to in some incidences "cat Calls" from passers by or worse still physical attack ..YES attacks STILL happen in Dublin ,in fact I know of a guy who was badly beaten up on Francis St in at 1030 am in the morning !

Bottle_of_Smoke

oisindoyle wrote: »

Very few gay /lesbian people will hold hands in public due to in some incidences "cat Calls" from passers by or worse still physical attack ..YES attacks STILL happen in Dublin ,in fact I know of a guy who was badly beaten up on Francis St in at 1030 am in the morning !

yeah that's a tough one alright. In london/paris homo couples walk around linking hands and no-one cares

Maybe homo-couples here should do it in safer areas like grafton/nassau/kildare/dawson street. Could understand someone being wary to do so on henry street/all of north city centre with exception of maybe henry street.

LookingFor

I definitely see both sides of the argument on this.

Though I've lately been leaning more toward the side that says "pictures of guys in drag in the irish times at pride doesn't do much for the image of all gay people", tbh. But then I also see the 'cultural value' some gay people see in that.

As a political statement, or as an effort towards equality, I'm really not sure how effective pride is today. Pride is not viewed as a political protest, so no one takes it as such, IMO. I think the gay community does need to become more organised politically to more actively protest certain issues, but I'd be more inclined to draw inspiration from the 'grey protests' over the medical card, for example, than I would from pride as it currently is. I don't think pride is as widely inclusive as it might like to think it is, I think there's an awful lot of gay people who just don't relate to it and who don't take it as a reflection of themselves or their interests, but rather reflects the personality and interests of a smaller, more vocal and more active group. IMO, if equality and such is the goal, we should be looking at ways to involve and 'activate' the more silent majority of gay people.

Otaku Girl

unregistered wrote: »

I am in no way trying to be incendiary, this is a genuine question. Why celebrate "pride"? What is there to celebrate about being gay? It is simply a sexuality, an aspect of a person, like their hair colour (heh, more complex socially of course). I do not see, nor do I want to see being gay as a defining thing in my life, why do others? Why make it almost political? Is it some form of perceived social rebellion, cultural cultivation, post-liberation celebration, simply an excuse to party, or an attempt to attract attention to gay rights (if so, how does a merry parade help?...there is no detectable serious tone). Ill accept any answer, and I have no problem with any of them, or pride itself, its just seems odd to me why people would show "pride" in the first place.

I am neither proud nor ashamed to be bisexual or transexual in the same way I'm neither proud nor ashamed that I have white skin and blue eyes.I was born with such qualities and inclinations so there is no achievement involved.

unreggd

oisindoyle wrote: »

Very few gay /lesbian people will hold hands in public due to in some incidences "cat Calls" from passers by or worse still physical attack

This happens to loads of people, for different reasons!
Size, race, appearance etc

The kind of people who slag passers-by are irrelevant ignorant wastes of people!

How the hell do you think an OTT march once a year will resolve this?

As was said, be proactive, but wary

Stop victimising yourself

oisindoyle

unreggd wrote: »

This happens to loads of people, for different reasons!
Size, race, appearance etc

The kind of people who slag passers-by are irrelevant ignorant wastes of people!

How the hell do you think an OTT march once a year will resolve this?

As was said, be proactive, but wary

Stop victimising yourself

It may well happen to loads of people but it happens to gay and lesbian people ,,,thats the fact of the matter ...
As for your comment OTT march ,,,i suggest you go on the march and see ALL participants ...Not just the ones the media seem to focus on ,,,The vast majority of those who march are ordinary Joe Bloggs and Mary Bloggs,,,The marches of late have a political slant ,,this one for example is to do with EQUALITY....
I fail to see how your comment "stop victimising yourself" has any relevance ...Its rather stupid if I may say so ,,,,The facts are gay/lesbian people are still victimised in this society whether you believe it or not or like it or not and beaten up becasue of their sexuality ,,,Plus they are classed as second classed citizens

unreggd

If you act like a rebel one day a year, in an overshadowed event, then cower away for the other 364 days, you wont get anywhere

And that's why the hate is still there, because its not a common thing to see
The more common it is, the more accepted it would be

The only person stopping you holding hands in public is you

You're marching in a parade saying how proud you are, but then you're acting like you're ashamed

Do you not see the irony of your approach?

oisindoyle

unreggd wrote: »

If you act like a rebel one day a year, in an overshadowed event, then cower away for the other 364 days, you wont get anywhere

And that's why the hate is still there, because its not a common thing to see
The more common it is, the more accepted it would be

The only person stopping you holding hands in public is you

You're marching in a parade saying how proud you are, but then you're acting like you're ashamed

Do you not see the irony of your approach?

Yup I totally understand your logic ,,Firstly,though ,I wot be acting a rebel on Pride day ,I'll walk with 100s of other gay and lesbian people and we will have a laugh ,We always do ,its great fun ....
At no time am I ashamed of who I am ,but there are times when I will not hold my partners hand in public if I sense there could be trouble and believe me ,thats a very real fear even today 2009
I do tend to hold my partners hand at the best of times (except if we're argueing !!!!)

shoegirl

Visibility has been an important political tool since the late 60s and early 70s. It was realised that a human face made it much harder to deny rights than being a nameless and faceless minority. Early pride parades showed that numerically we were a much bigger grouping than previously thought and that more of us wanted to be heard than previously thought. If as a private citizen, I put an X on a ballot paper nobody knows my sexuality.

The invisibility that surrounded us for years enabled a lot of mythologies to be generated regarding our lives - and still does. Ignorance is death as the old anti HIV slogan used to say.

I agree that some prides are much more commercial events than political but there is a kind of balance I think between commercial, political and social when you consider a lot of big bars could have made a lot more money had they dumped their gay clientele and gone "straight" (Turks Head Chophouse anyone?) I do see this in places like Maspalomas where the vast majority of the local "gay community" appear to be ex-pats with commercial interests in the gay scene.

Of course breaking the stigmas and shame is still important, especially to help people to be more open and thus less stigmatised in smaller communities. One thing I see a lot and its really sad is very very identifiably gay people living a life that they think is in the closet but everyone around them seems to recognise it but keep silent. Thats sad I think.

shoegirl

pepsi1234 wrote: »

I'm against how these people hijack our sexuality and reinforce a negative gay stereotype. No wonder the general public are against gay adoption. Someone walking the streets in a leather costume does not exactly paint a picture of responsibility or maturity.
If doctors had such a parade 'just for being doctors' and carried on in the same manner, do you think they would gain or lose respect from the general public?

I hear a lot of people these days talking about negative gay stereotypes - cross dressers, sexual fetishists, promiscuity, Tom of Finland types, mannish radical lesbian separatists, sauna/darkroom users. But all of these have equivalents on the hetero communities in some form or another and people are changing there too. I this we need to practice tolerance within our own community - how otherwise can we expect to find it outside? We don't all look like respectable middle class couples and people come from all lots of backgrounds and mindsets.

kisaragi

Pride this year is mostly about campaigning against the civil partnership bill. Campaigning for equal rights.

It's also a celebration of your sexuality, who you are, and being yourself. Why is this necessary? Because so many people feel ashamed of their sexuality still. And many people think we should be ashamed of it too. I think the different aspects of gay culture are well represented. I'll be marching with a flag but other than that I'll just be a normal guy walking! I personally like the drag queens and anyone else who shows up in whatever costume. It's a party in a way.

If you hate how flamboyant gays, leather bears and drag queens are "hijacking" your sexuality then go and march yourself.

Aard

kisaragi wrote: »

If you hate how flamboyant gays, leather bears and drag queens are "hijacking" your sexuality then go and march yourself.

I accept that point, but what if you don't like the idea of a parade in the first place? It's a Catch-22.

dimejinky99

If only we could follow kids example..they're so accepting of the whole gay thing..my little brother was using 'gay' in the new vernacular meaning something was ****e..he was 11..i said 'did da not talk to you yet? ye know i'm gay right?' and he goes 'your gay? why are ye gay?' and i said 'thats like asking me why are me eyes blue..i just am..' he goes 'your eyes are blue 'cos yer gay? that's ok' it was hilarious but their so much easier if exposed to it earlier..it's the older curtain twitching bible bashing culchies and dub grannies (who vote FF no doubt) whose mind set we have to change, and by the looks of things here, a few people here in our age group too..

Some people here smack of the whole 'i'm not racist but..' type...

We are here, we ARE queer(hate that word) but it seems you're still not used to it and until such time as you are we're gonna keep going at it until you genuinely accept us and believe we're entitled to the same quality of life rights and freedoms that everyone else in this state enjoys.

we're not about breaking up families, quite the opposite, we want the right to build our own. But mainly for me pride is about helping and encouraging those thousands upon thousands of people in Ireland who feel they cant be themselves and be free to enjoy who they really are and do it with...you guessed it, Pride.

Live free and be accepting of others and their differences to yourself is my view.

All different, all equal.

kisaragi

Aard wrote: »

I accept that point, but what if you don't like the idea of a parade in the first place? It's a Catch-22.

Then don't complain about not being represented?

Seriously though, if you (not you in particular) don't like the idea of a parade then think of it as going to protest against the inequality we face in Ireland. The march can be whatever you make it. A day out with your friends/family or a chance to show everyone your message that you don't want to be treated as less than your straight counter-part.

If you can't be bothered with the parade that's fair enough. But I really dont think most people aren't going to judge you based on what they've seen in a gay pride parade.

This is going to be slightly off-topic (and confusingly written) but it's actually really hard for me to get my head around the whole "I'm not proud of my sexuality, why do I need a parade" thing. It's not that being gay is an achievement of some sort, it's about being proud of who you've become, inclusive of your sexuality - not as something that defines you but as something which many people think of as wrong. One can't deny there's a whole gay culture there, sometimes very different from the straight one, sometimes not so different. Whether it be plays where two men fall in love, or gay nights with drag queens and go go dancers. You don't have to embrace it yourself, but some people do. It's a little bit hard to verbalize but basically even if you're not "defined" by your sexuality I think it definitely contributes to how you form as a person, by altering your experiences growing up etc etc. So in that way it's not something that makes you different in a superior/lesser kind of way from a straight person, but it can affect your interests, your personality, your experiences and so on. I don't think any of us can honestly say we'd be exactly the same person, just attracted to the opposite sex, if we were straight.

unreggd

dimejinky99 wrote: »

We are here, we ARE queer(hate that word) but it seems you're still not used to it and until such time as you are we're gonna keep going at it until you genuinely accept us and believe we're entitled to the same quality of life rights and freedoms that everyone else in this state enjoys.

we're not about breaking up families, quite the opposite, we want the right to build our own. But mainly for me pride is about helping and encouraging those thousands upon thousands of people in Ireland who feel they cant be themselves and be free to enjoy who they really are and do it with...you guessed it, Pride.

Live free and be accepting of others and their differences to yourself is my view.

All different, all equal.

I kinda agree with your post, but, you seem to be speaking for every LGB person, when you shouldn't

the parades are meant to represent everyone, when they dont

I think the main idea abt why its crap is that it doesnt really make sense

What does fancy dress have to do with making a political statement?

And the parade is meant to be everyone bein strong and proud, but they seem to cower away for the rest of the year

IMO, it won't do anything

And any good changes that come, certainly, imo, wont be any result of the parades

I think the "stand" is just bein takin advantage of t go on a mad one

Unless you really do dress as someone from the YMCA year-round :rolleyes:

pepsi1234

kisaragi wrote: »

Pride this year is mostly about campaigning against the civil partnership bill. Campaigning for equal rights.

It's also a celebration of your sexuality, who you are, and being yourself. Why is this necessary? Because so many people feel ashamed of their sexuality still. And many people think we should be ashamed of it too. I think the different aspects of gay culture are well represented. I'll be marching with a flag but other than that I'll just be a normal guy walking! I personally like the drag queens and anyone else who shows up in whatever costume. It's a party in a way.

If you hate how flamboyant gays, leather bears and drag queens are "hijacking" your sexuality then go and march yourself.

I wouldn't march myself because I don't feel the need to march. Why the need to create such a song and dance about one's sexuality?. It creates an 'us' versus 'them' atmosphere.

One of the things I learned from coming out was that most people didn't actually care about my sexuality. All the pride parade is doing is ramming our sexuality down the throats of people who probably care little about homosexuality. I believe equality by law will come when gays themselves stop believing that they are inherently different.

oisindoyle

pepsi1234 wrote: »

I wouldn't march myself because I don't feel the need to march. Why the need to create such a song and dance about one's sexuality?. It creates an 'us' versus 'them' atmosphere.

One of the things I learned from coming out was that most people didn't actually care about my sexuality. All the pride parade is doing is ramming our sexuality down the throats of people who probably care little about homosexuality. I believe equality by law will come when gays themselves stop believing that they are inherently different.

No one is asking you or forceing you to march and saying it creates an us and them situation ,is a silly thing to say
You also say equality by law will come about when gays themselves stop believeing that they are different ,,,,,How do you work that one out ???
All gay people want IS EQUALITY ,,,The Government wont give equality to gay and lesbian people.....So by the governent denying gays full and equal rights ,they are effectively saying that gays are different .......
CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT =???????????????????

Aard

oisindoyle wrote: »

No one is asking you or forceing you to march and saying it creates an us and them situation ,is a silly thing to say

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

oisindoyle wrote: »

You also say equality by law will come about when gays themselves stop believeing that they are different ,,,,,How do you work that one out ???

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

oisindoyle wrote: »

All gay people want IS EQUALITY ,,,The Government wont give equality to gay and lesbian people.....So by the governent denying gays full and equal rights ,they are effectively saying that gays are different .......
CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT =???????????????????

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

anoisaris

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first
place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

Surely a pride parade does the opposite, if people see groups of normal people-youth groups, sport teams, drama groups, charity groups, teacher lgbts, college and university lgbts, ordinary joe soaps and their friends all in one big parade maybe it breaks down the stigma associated with peoples assumptions and notions.

oisindoyle

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

unreggd

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

I think you are

And you're very narrow-minded

AssaultedPeanut

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

Yes, how dare he/she have a difference of opinion, the bast*rd
:rolleyes:

oisindoyle

unreggd wrote: »

I think you are

And you're very narrow-minded

Narrow minded me ?? LOL LOL Now that is funny ...Please enlighten me

ixoy

oisindoyle wrote: »

Narrow minded me ?? LOL LOL Now that is funny ...Please enlighten me

I don't think he's a stirrer at all - no need to be name calling now. I believe he's got valid points and I've often mused over the effectiveness of the parade myself.

Trance

-Post removed-

Trance

Various users wrote:

It is about being seen / need pride day to show that our society and political system allow it / show solidarity to those who are not as fortunate to enjoy freedom.

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

Trance

Various Users wrote:

fear of abuse / know of a guy who was badly beaten up

The lone gay who gets his head kicked in on O'Connell Street just because he kissed a fella goodbye in my opinion, is ten times the hero that is any person safely attending pride in numbers.

Ronanc1

Id be very much of the same opinion as trance

Splatterly

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

kisaragi

Trance wrote: »

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

If you had gone to the parade I think you would have seen that the majority of the people were normally dressed, which is mostly what i saw when i watched the short segment RTE news did on it. There was maybe 20 drag queens and I saw only one guy in a mesh top, I don't really recall any other fetish gear. Also Panti's speech mostly served to try to get the gays to do something about the situation so I don't think that "95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to".

Splatterly wrote: »

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

Again, if you had gone to the parade one thing Panti re-iterated what that in the gay community both opinions exist - that the legislation is a good thing, a step in the right direction, or simply not enough and a slap in the face. She called for people to respect both opinions and remain united and moving towards the shared goal of civil marriage via whichever ally.

Sorry for the over-quotation of panti and i know she doesn't represent the whole gay community/media but I wasn't around for a lot longer after her speech. I was present for the girl (leader of LGBT noise?) ripping up the civil partnership bill though, which was met with huge cheers. The speeches were very rousing. There'll be a march on august 9th for those of you who wouldn't want to celebrate pride but might want to march against inequality.

Boston

Splatterly wrote: »

I don't go to the Pride parades anymore because of the negative stereotypes and because of the intolerance in my own community; the gay community.

Take this years parade for example, as has been stated on here, it was all about campaigning against the Civil Partnership Legislation. Well what about those of us (the minority, I know) who welcome this Leglisation?

Gay people are happy to give out about the one-sided media attention etc; but how about the one-sided gay media reporting? Almost every Irish gay website I've gone on since Friday has been ultimately, and fundamentally negative about the Civil Partnership Legislation. Sometimes there is a nod to acknowledging that the "majority" are against it. But barely a whisper about the minority that welcome it.

12000 people marched through Dublin this year demanding "equality" and claiming to speak for all Irish gay people. That doesn't seem very equal to me. I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?

We have a long way to grow up

Silent people can't really blame others when their views aren't taken into account. You pose the question "I wonder how welcoming the organisers & participants would have been to a float promoting and welcoming the Civil Partnership Legislation?" as if the answer is a forgone conclusion, but you judge the organisers without ever being in contact with them, that is highly unfair.

Trance wrote: »

Who exactly is your Pride event communicating to? Homosexuals make up a small minority of the population yet they are the vast majority of Pride event attendees. That is the first amusing thing about Pride. The organisers aspire to create equality and respect for all homosexuals in society but at the same time, the whole festival is marketed towards gays and gays only. Panti may be able to stand on a podium in a nice shiny dress and bang out a fierce speech but 95% of her audience are not the people she wants to deliver that message to. Being a minority, we will never get what we want in society if we shun the majority in power.

The next amusing thing about it all is what the excluded straight community then see. The media and the internet shows them videos and images of men in drag, men in leather, men wearing nearly nothing bar body paint and men mincing around the street in fairy costumes while perhaps waving an inflatable dildo. As a result, Pride and homosexuality become synonymous with immaturity, fetishes and sexual perversion. The event becomes counter-productive.

As I said in my first post, while it might be a great laugh, Pride is only serving to further differentiate and ostracize gays. It's not countervailing the stereotype. It's not purging the stigma and it's not representative of all gay people.

I don't think your comments or fair either. I've seen Chinese new year celebrated in Dublin, and they was nothing particularly Irish about it. The people looked different to me, they dressed differently and they acted differently. Would you criticise them in the same way you criticise the pride march for being different? In other countries there are diversity parades celebrating different cultures and walks of life. Can't one community celebrate aspects of their culture (drag queens ect) without people trying to accuse they of separatism?

As stated, anyone who went to the parade would have seen a broad spectrum of people.

Aard wrote: »

It does create an us-and-them situation, i.e. those walking in the parade VS those not walking.

Gay people believing that they're different leads to them protesting/parading which leads to stigmatisation which leads some people to believe the stories that all gay people are paedophiles and child-molesters.

If gay people just got on with their life and acted like their straight counterparts (holding hands, kissing, not being closeted) then society would accept them more rapidly than if all they do is put on a silly parade once a year.

Just because a government denies gays rights, doesn't mean that there's any truth to what they're implying regarding being different.

Do you not agree that by putting on a parade in the first place that gays themselves are differentiating themselves?

We are different though. We are a section of society which some people find objectionable. I'm recently back from paris where no one batted an eye lid about two guys holding hands, this is not the current reality that we live in though. I get your point, if we all lived as if the world was what we wished it was rather then what it truly is, then maybe the wish would become the reality.

oisindoyle wrote: »

You're quite clearly a sh"t stirrer and a troll

Aard has been contributing to this forum for many years at this stage, I and others enjoy reading his posts and value his contributions. I've no idea if he's; straight, gay, bi, male or female, but I do know I'd rather have his input on an issue then someone who cannot conduct himself with civility.