UFC 100 - 11th July 2009

mirwillbeback

The UFC reach a landmark event, only a few years removed from their threatened demise. The have pulled out all the stops for a great night of fights with 2 title fights and a stacked undercard featuring up and comers, contenders, former champions, challengers and champions.

Main Card -

Brock Lesnar ( UFC Heavyweight Champion ) v Frank Mir ( UFC Interim Champion )

Georges St Pierre ( UFC Welterweight Champion ) v Thiago Alves

Michael Bisping v Dan Henderson

John Fitch v Paulo Thiago

Yoshiro Akiyama v Alan Belcher

Undercard -

Stephan Bonnar v Mark Coleman

Jon Jones v Jake O'Brien

Dong Hyun Kim v TJ Grant

Matt Grice v Shannon Gugerty

CB Dollaway v Tom Lawlor

Mac Danzig v Jim Miller
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I am pumped up for this night of fights, what does everyone else think.

Thoughts, opinions?

Kent Brockman

Shouuld be good. Lots of interesting match-ups and fighters on display:D

Does anyone think Alvez can trouble GSP? I know he has taken a few scalps but surely GSP will take him down (to avoid his Ko power and leg kicks) and dominate from top?

Can see brock v Mir going the same way as last time(Brock onslaught, Mir ankle lock) ,unless frank tries to stand with him(after awesome show against Nog), in which case he will get Ko'ed.

Bonnar will probably beat the crap out of a game Coleman (cant see any way Coleman wins this and imagine when its over we will all feel sorry for him, he should retire etc etc)

helimachoptor

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Main Card -

Brock Lesnar ( UFC Heavyweight Champion ) v Frank Mir ( UFC Interim Champion )

Georges St Pierre ( UFC Welterweight Champion ) v Thiago Alves

Michael Bisping v Dan Henderson

Undercard -

Stephan Bonnar v Mark Coleman

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Can't see past a Lesnar win here.

GSP

Man I hope Bisping wins but it should be a good fight and I would say will be the best of the night.

Bonnar will pound Coleman, KO early in the 2nd.

cowzerp

I dont think its too great considering its a landmark show.

looking forward to the top 3 though, they are a good standard.

JoeyJJ

Wonder will it be live for longer than the 3 hour standard show, wouldn't mind having a 5 hour show.

cowzerp

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Wonder will it be live for longer than the 3 hour standard show, wouldn't mind having a 5 hour show.

That would just be overkill, i hate over long shows.

SuperWoody101

Can't wait for this, I fly out to Vegas on the 8th. I got vip tickets to the two fan expo and then off to see the event. Rool on UFC 100

mirwillbeback

My predictions are -

Henderson to beat Bisping on points. I think he'll have too much experience and fight savvy. I think Bisping will be better standing, but I can't see him stop the takedowns and I'm really rooting for Henderson.

GSP I think will have far far too much for Alves. I don't think he merits a shot as depsite his run of wins I think there are far tought fights for GSP. He's a good striker alright, but GSP will dominate him from start to finish with kicks, wrestling and gnp.

The main event - I've said for years that Frank Mir would be champion again and I believe he will win the title here. However, I was far far more confident of him beating Lesnar last time. Lesnar is an animal and works so hard at every thing he does that I can see him improving enormously at everything, most crucially submission defence. Standing, I can see Frank last from a technique point of view, but power wise all it takes is a glancing shot from Lesnar and fight is over. However - and this is one thing that really gets me re the Mir haters - is there any other heavyweight, or indeed fighter, that is SO aggressive at submission attempts. He gets stick over Cardio, but that's because of the relentless pace he sets in his fights ( try rolling for 5 mins at full aggressive attack and you'll see ). Look at the Sims fights, the Tank Abbott, the Sylvia fight, Lesnar, Hardonk - give him any sort of opening and he'll exploit it in a split second. I can't see Lesnar being so good at defence on the ground that he won't give some sort of a limb, and for me that's it, game over - and I'm predicting in the first round. Hopefully a leg lock.

mirwillbeback

SuperWoody101 wrote: »

Can't wait for this, I fly out to Vegas on the 8th. I got vip tickets to the two fan expo and then off to see the event. Rool on UFC 100

and there was me thinking there was a recession

SuperWoody101

mirwillbeback wrote: »

and there was me thinking there was a recession

I got left go from Dell a few weeks ago and with the money I got from them I said f**k it who knows when I will have the chance/money to go to Vegas again. I have always wanted to go to Vegas so it's now or never.

davmol

SuperWoody101 wrote: »

I got left go from Dell a few weeks ago and with the money I got from them I said f**k it who knows when I will have the chance/money to go to Vegas again. I have always wanted to go to Vegas so it's now or never.

you wont regret it,vegas is savage!!
make sure you cover up though,weather over there will be around the 40 degree mark and the sun is unforgiving,too much rays for the average paddies skin.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

I dont think its too great considering its a landmark show.

looking forward to the top 3 though, they are a good standard.

The show is pretty stacked.

GSP & Brock two of the biggest box office draws on one show.

ginoginelli

Its a great card but I would have liked maybe 2 more compelling matches on the main card. With the ufcs fighter roster I think they could have mustered up 2 more exciting matches than fitch v thiago and belcher v akiyama..

Hope we get to see coleman v bonner anyways!

dunkamania

I have to agreee with this, other than the three top fights, the card has promise, but could still be weak enough on the night. Big fan of Jon Jones, and would like to see his fight. Given that there is 2 title fights, which could both potentially be 5 round fights, we might not get to see much of the under card.

Odats

Going to Vegas aswell to see 100 flying out the 5th of July going to Xtreme Couture and Warrior for abit of training that's the main reason besides the event and doing the seminars at the fan expo with Wanderlai,Faber,Dellagrotte and Eddie Bravo.
I have a feeling with Alves cutting from over 200 down to 170 that GSP's team will plan for him to try and take the fight into the championship rounds to test Alves' cardio especially when he suffers from ATT syndrome in making weight.
Mir Lesnar is going to be a tough one to call.
Henderson to beat Bisping in a split decision. Looking forward to Jon Jones live and Jim Miller giving Danzig his marching orders from the UFC.

Dragan

Yeah, really looking forward to this card.

I remember having a conversation with mirwillbeback ages about Mir, and i was pretty stalwart in my view that Mir was done. In a way it's nice to see that i was wrong, his win over Nog really was something else in my book. I think Mir takes this. It's not so much bandwagon jumping as Mir having started to show he has reached the potential that most of us thought he had. I am also thinking that some of his greatest moments will always come against people with a lesser understanding of the ground game who are given to a wrestlers instincts and i think that yes, we will see Mir in trouble at some point but i don't think Lesnar has all his wrestling instincts dealt with yet.

The GSP fight is interesting for me, if only because it seems Alves has that little something special that seperates the good from the great, even if it is only in one area. It might be enough to sneak the fluke win against an opponent who should really dominate him.

Killme00

Cant believe i have to wait for UFC 102 ie August!! to see Damian Maia fight again

pablohoney87

If anyone knows a place i can see it in laganas in zekynthos? Would be great if i could catch it.

Kazooie

Killme00 wrote: »

Cant believe i have to wait for UFC 102 ie August!! to see Damian Maia fight again

I hear ya. That's somethin that must be frustrating being contracted with the ufc. If your not one of the popular (to the casual fan) like the chucks, lesnars etc.. you could be laid of for months and months between fights. Even Anderson had a rant about not getting enough fights.

Jason Mc

I don't get why the coleman fight is not in the main card and I do agree the card could have been stronger

I think Mir will have his hands full with brock now. I hope Mir wins but won't be surprised if brock GNPs his face through the matt. That much power is hard to deal with

Going to vegas is hardly a now or never sort of thing!!! it's not exactly a life or death situation and the recession will be gone and travel will get cheaper. Anyway.

Very excited about this. Lesnar win and GSP also.

Is it just me or does anyone else find Jon Jones very exciting to watch? I've only seen a couple of his fights as UFC is a relatively new founded thing for me but he fights with incredible technique. This card woud be perfect for me if Cain Velasquez was fighting too.

EDIT: Does anyone know where I can watch this in Queenstown, New Zealand???

helimachoptor

Deleted User wrote: »

EDIT: Does anyone know where I can watch this in Queenstown, New Zealand???

The World Bar I would say

rovert

Jason Mc wrote: »

I don't get why the coleman fight is not in the main card

As they don’t want Coleman potentially dying on the main card.

Jason Mc

rovert wrote: »

As they don’t want Coleman potentially dying on the main card.

But I want to see his twins crying again... :mad:

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else find Jon Jones very exciting to watch?

He also has one of the coolest nicknames in all of MMA!

t-ha

dunkamania wrote: »

Given that there is 2 title fights, which could both potentially be 5 round fights, we might not get to see much of the under card.

I honestly don't know who will win between Brock and Mir, but I can't see it going 5 rounds either way.

Agree with the quality comments - it would be great for a regular show, but I thought they could've pumped this one up a bit more. I've been more excited about December cards than this one.

Fozzy

Kazooie wrote: »

I hear ya. That's somethin that must be frustrating being contracted with the ufc. If your not one of the popular (to the casual fan) like the chucks, lesnars etc.. you could be laid of for months and months between fights. Even Anderson had a rant about not getting enough fights.

Brock won't have fought in eight months now. Chuck hadn't fought in seven months before his last fight I think. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Pretty much all fighters have to wait months for a fight. Brock did fight Couture three months after his previous fight, but he took no damage against Herring

I don't get the comments about the card not being stacked either. There are two title matches featuring two of their biggest draws as well as the culmination of TUF. Maybe you don't like the other fights as much, but what else can they do? Maybe swap Guida/Sanchez from this weekend with a fight? But then you'll have Coleman/Bonnar or Akiyama/Belcher headlining the Fight Night, which would hurt that show. 100 is not the be all and the end all, they've got a lot of other shows that they need to promote

David Jones

I hope brock beats the **** out of Mir, he was arrogant before he was on TUF, well known as being a d*ck to people if you were rolling with him when i was in the USA back in 2001. Dont remember his submission game being that active when pe de pano was smashing his face in, active jits v tim sylvia and wes sims is not exactly a huge task. Let him do it against barnett or fedor or lesnar. Not a huge lesnar fan, but take him over Mir anyday. Nog is a gentleman.

Hopefully henderson will be too much for bisping, cant see GSP being too troubled and any card with Fitch on it is a good one to watch.

What I really hope is that Setanta are still around to show the upcoming UFCs. The only reason I signed up for the summer was to see brock beat mir and penn beat florian. Now that they have lost the premier league for next year it could be curtains very quickly.

mirwillbeback

David Jones wrote: »

Dont remember his submission game being that active when pe de pano was smashing his face in, active jits v tim sylvia and wes sims is not exactly a huge task. Let him do it against barnett or fedor or lesnar. .

In fairness, the Pe De Pano fight was his first in almost 2 years after having his leg smashed to smithereens. He's already done it against Lesnar with a an beautiful beautiful leg lock, and it isnt his fault he can't fight Fedor or Barnett - neither could Randy and and no one blames HIM for that. Mir smashed Nog to pieces, a black belt in jiu jitsu knocking out someone with an iron chin for the first time in career, and on the feet too.
He seems a lot more humble since the accident and maybe this came from realising he wasn't indestructible. He was sound when I met him, though in fairness it wasn't sparring so that's not to say he wouldn't be a prick there. I've said this before on this board - I'm amazed at the grief Mir gets. He is someone who was a UFC champion, never lost the belt in a scrap and after being told he'd struggle to walk again, and been smashed in 2 of 3 comeback fights, he's dedicated himself to be one fight away from being champ again. If it was anyone else, people would be nuthugging him to bits.
Anyways, 11th July will sort it all out, if he's smashed by Lesnar, then " mirwontbeback "

ginoginelli

Interesting.. Mir did kinda come across as a dick on TUF, but I thought this might have been more down to the editing process.. He is very sure of himself anyway, so I could well imagine him being like you said. I do really respect the fact that he faced such adversery though and managed to get through it and achieve his goals.

Im rooting for Mir because even with all his cockiness, I think hes a better representive of mma than Brock. I wont be too teed off if Brock wins though, as it will validate him somewhat and set up a few more interesting match ups in the future.

GSP all the way. I hope he smashes Alves..

Gonna root for Hendo too, but wont be too disappointed if Bisping takes it, as hendo looks like hes on the tail end of his career anyway..

soretoe

Brock has been working harder than anyone in the sport for the last 6 months for this fight - ya know he has - he's just different than everyone else - he knows he's a very unusually agile powerful big guy and in his own words is a very coachable athlete - in other words he listens and applies and is humble and will work harder than anyone and cash in on his freaky physical ability but ya can just see it in his eyes when he's interviewed - he knows exactly what he's up against and at this point he's done so much focused training over the last 2.5 years or so - like the equivalent to some of you guys who train regularly would acheive in 5 years or more - that he now has no real excuses - he is the real deal the full package now and would in my mind beat everyone in the sport with maybe a question mark over fedor who cannot be ruled out of any fight with any human alive. He was destroying the over rated Mir untill Mir cowed his own head on the ground to avoid his own destruction which resulted in a couple slaps upside the head which resulted in a stupid stand-up when the ref should have just taken the view that Mir was not defending himself and was getting destroyed. The submission in the end was brilliant but Mir knows well that he ducked away form the punches and that the stand up was an ill disserved get out of jail free card which he capitalised on with an exellant knee bar. Mir is quality - he beat a has been nog - very well but Nog is finished - it made me sad to see how finished he actually is but Mir wouldn't have had much of a chance against a Nog of old.

BROCK - TKO ROUND ONE BY SOME SORT OF PIKACHOO EXPLOSION OF WHITE RAGE

GSP - SUBMISSION ROUND 3 AFTER WEARING OUT ALL OTHER OPTIONS BECAUSE ALVES IS A WRECKING BALL AND THE ONLY THING THAT'LL STOP HIM ON THE NIGHT BAR A GRENADE WILL BE A SETUP FOR A TEXT BOOK SUBMISSION - AND BECAUSE HE WANTS SOME SORT OF CATCH WEIGHT FIGHT WITH SILVA SOME TIME SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER STEPPING STONE TOWARDS GREATNESS

HOPE THE COLEMAN FIGHT DOESN'T HAPPEN - BEST RESULT WOULD BE HE LOSES WITHOUT TOO MUCH DAMAGE AND TAKES THE MONEY AND RETIRES - BECAUSE ITS FIGHTS LIKE THIS THAT HAS MADE ME WONDER DEEPLY ABOUT THE POINT OF PRO MMA - BUT THEN I THINK COUTURE AND I REMEMBER WHY

Raze_them_all

So your complaining that Mir used his brain and used the rules to his advantage? Why can't people just accept brock lost without complaining that mir and the ref screwed him. It's not Mir or the refs job to make sure Brock doesn't hit to the back of the head.

Brock is the most exciting guy in the UFC, seeing a man that big sprint around and be as agile as he is just quite simply awe inspiring and out of this world, i've had dreams where I've had UFC fights with him and beat him by grounding and pounding. It's ridiculous, I can't get over the size of the man and his agility. But he can lose this fight if he is not careful - Mir is a tactical genius with submission moves.

dunkamania

Turning your head away from your opponents punches, exposing the back of your head, is a legitamate technique. Brock has no one to blame but himself, the severity of the hit warranted more than just a warning from the ref. If Brock hadnt got so excited, and started laying in the donkey kong punches, he would have won handily.

I dont see how Brock loses this fight unless it goes into the later rounds, but Mir isnt known for his Cardio either.

Below is the link for the UFC preview
http://www.mmascraps.com/2009/06/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-video-ufc-100.html

I still cant watch the bits from Nog vs Mir. Hands down the most painful moments for me as a mma fan

Jason Mc

Ur a sissy

pablohoney87

dunkamania wrote: »

Turning your head away from your opponents punches, exposing the back of your head, is a legitamate technique. Brock has no one to blame but himself, the severity of the hit warranted more than just a warning from the ref.

The point i was gonna make. Nobody ever complains when a fighter is taking knees against the cage and then drops to a knee to be grounded. Its a very intelligent move and shows the fighter really knows how to think ahead while they're fighting.

soretoe

actually you're right I shouldn't be moaning about the mir fight stand up coz Brock hasn't.
its just the reality of fighting within a rules framework - like if you're gased and need a break so you lean on him against the cage untill the bell or whatever - I just hate to see a guy who could clearly win the fight without rules lose within the rules - the whole point of the thing originally was to get as close as possible to finding who would win in a real fight etc..
Paradoxically Crocop stuck a finger in that lads eye probably by mistake and won as a direct result - prob would've won anyway but in reality won as a direct result - so it swings both ways
I say let them stomp heads like in pride - Wandy would love a bit of that
(if not the athletics comm board)

cowzerp

soretoe wrote: »

I just hate to see a guy who could clearly win the fight without rules lose within the rules - the whole point of the thing originally was to get as close as possible to finding who would win in a real fight etc..
Paradoxically Crocop stuck a finger in that lads eye probably by mistake and won as a direct result - prob would've won anyway but in reality won as a direct result - so it swings both ways
I say let them stomp heads like in pride - Wandy would love a bit of that
(if not the athletics comm board)

if they can win within the rules then they could win if there where no rules, the proof is they have the skills to execute there attacks-going back to soccer kicks, head stomps etc would ruin the name of the sport that has just become mainstream, fighting within rules takes more skill anyway, so the more skillfull fighter could use the dirty tactics easier if they where allowed.

soretoe

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have - and with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc.. anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces - the UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win - in fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same. The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts - its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

dunkamania

I suggest you re-read over what you post before you post it. Your last post was very long, and difficult to read.


In general, most fighters now have very good submission defense, even if they dont have a good all round ground game, so there will be less subs, than back in the good ole days, but their should be more TKO's on the ground.

Raze_them_all

soretoe wrote: »

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have - and with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc.. anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces - the UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win - in fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same. The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts - its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

My got my learn to break up what your saying.

How was turning his head a stand up move. Turning your head away is smart. Brock was stupid enough to hit to the back of the head. In my last fight the ref stood me and my opponent up after a strike to the back of the head. In the heat of the moment alot of fighters don't pick their shots when raining down blows and are rightly exploited by fighters who INTELLIGENTLY defend themselves by turning there heads.

Turning your head means the opposing fighter has to readjust where he is striking, giving you a brief second to think and start defending again. Besides Brocks ground and pound posture and technique does him no favours at all.

soretoe

lost the plot in my rant there - yeah fairnuf turning the head is tactical

I do think Brocks g'n'p will be better again this time though

He'll chance a few straights on his feet and then take Mir down with ease and hold em there while he rains hammer fists all over him - and if Mir turns his head this time brocks just gonna turn it back physically and punish him even more

I love the idea of Brock destroying everyone in his division for a few years not because of his skill - it sure aint pretty to see - shoot - hold - hamer fist over and over but he's such a freak he transcends technique and strategy - and thats before he actually starts to get respected for his own tehcnique and strategy which he will do soon enough and then even the likes of Fedor will have little chance - and that's a massive statement - face it he's a freak - he works harder than you - he learns fast - he's completely fearless - he's gonna wreck ya - simple as that ..............ahem I hope....coz it'll be more than a hat I'll have to eat if I'm wrong

I adore Lesnar and I think he will destroy everyone in the division, hopefully not the boy Velasquez though, he's the next big thing in my mind at least, he's such an incredible specimen! I've said that three times now in this thread. I think I'll cover my boner and leave with my head held high!

roo1981

I propose a toast to the joys of paragraphs, and the legibility they instill...

soretoe wrote: »

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have...

And with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc...

Anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces

The UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win.

In fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same.

The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts

Its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

Sorry soretoe, not trying to be an ass

Raze_them_all

soretoe wrote: »

lost the plot in my rant there - yeah fairnuf turning the head is tactical

I do think Brocks g'n'p will be better again this time though

He'll chance a few straights on his feet and then take Mir down with ease and hold em there while he rains hammer fists all over him - and if Mir turns his head this time brocks just gonna turn it back physically and punish him even more

I love the idea of Brock destroying everyone in his division for a few years not because of his skill - it sure aint pretty to see - shoot - hold - hamer fist over and over but he's such a freak he transcends technique and strategy - and thats before he actually starts to get respected for his own tehcnique and strategy which he will do soon enough and then even the likes of Fedor will have little chance - and that's a massive statement - face it he's a freak - he works harder than you - he learns fast - he's completely fearless - he's gonna wreck ya - simple as that ..............ahem I hope....coz it'll be more than a hat I'll have to eat if I'm wrong

There are no "likes of fedor" There is just Fedor.

Brock is a physical freak no doubt. Fedor isn't and yet Fedor has been decimating people for years. I know which I consider to be the more impressive feat.

meboloxitis

I'm calling a submission victory for Mir again

Brock is a big freak but Frank Mir is a true martial artist. To come back from the accident the way he did & still compete at the top level is inspiring.

Anybody who trains Jiu Jitsu will know that the neck & legs are weak points for the big guys. I reckon Mir will work for a sweep and take Lesnars back. If he doesnt get a rnc in he will go for the knee bar or heel hook.

Unless brock has been intensely working on bjj defence he's gonna tap.

I'm still pissed at the big mongo for taking out Randy! Bastard

cowzerp

I agree, as far as im concerned, if mir does not out box him and bash him like he did big nog then he will choke him out on the ground, my prediction is some boxing to bash brock about a bit then down to the ground where brock will be going asleep. strenght does not matter when your arteries are blocked and the sandman comes to say hello.

chopperbyrne

That theory is all well and good, but unless Brock takes it to the ground how is Mir going to get him there?

This is a top, top class wrestler we're talking about, who is also much bigger and stronger than Frank. Unless Frank also has some excellent Judo throws, Brock is only going to ground when he wants to take the fight to the ground and that will be a double leg shoot, guaranteed.

cowzerp

chopperbyrne wrote: »

That theory is all well and good, but unless Brock takes it to the ground how is Mir going to get him there?.

Thats my point-if brock stands with Mir he's looking for a lucky punch, Mir boxed excently v Nog last time and i was impressed, if he does the same next time then he will box the ears off Brock standing, Brock will take it down at some stage and then its GnP v Been choked in my eyes.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I think Brock ia going to take it... I hate saying that but I keep thinking back to the Mir Vs Freeman fight.
Mir keeps trying for the leg lock and Freeman pounds the head of him.
I predict this going the same way...

chopperbyrne

As the previous Mir fight, the Herring fight and the Couture fight have shown though, is that one solid punch from Brock is enough to put anyone on their back.

There are very few people who will want to risk trading blows with him.

Personally I think Mirs best chance is to try to get in a clinch with Brock against the cage and try to work a guillotine or some kind of arm/shoulder submission when Brock tries to slam him.

Edit: @ cowzerp