Child Struggling in School...Advice?

FullOf..IT

Hi,

My son has just got back his results from the Sigma T and Micra T tests which he done 2 months ago in first class.

He got a 4 for the Sigma and a 1 and 3 for the Micra, the 1 for class based and 3 for age based.

He started to talk later than expected. He has always struggled with his reading and writing and still has trouble with some of his pronunciation.

We have sent him here... www.Cluas.ie as we seen an ad for them and he had some of the symptoms that they described. He was assessed and they told us that there was a prolem with how his brain processed infomation (from right ear to left side of the brain if this makes sense but it could have been the other way round), is this some form of dsylexia?

We got him the tomatis therapy on offer and we did see some improvements. He was re assessed after the therapy and improvenments were made to how he was hearing and processing infomation we were told. In addition to the tomatis we are carrying out NDT exercises with him and meet with a NDT therapist regularly at cluas

He is also carrying out another session at the recommendation of those at cluas but now with the results of the sigm / micra tests we are frustrated and feeling more and more powerless. It has not been cheap to get the tomatis done (we will have spent €8k when this session is finished) and we are starting to question if this was the correct avenue to go down.

Should we seek a 2nd opinion and where?
Should we look at keeping him back a year (he only turned 7 in april this year, is he too young for 1 st class?)
Should we look at special needs schools? (kills me to say this).

His teacher and the people at cluas have said that he is an intellegent boy and i can say this too but i dont know how objective my assessment is.

Thanks in advance for first reading this and 2nd for offering any advice you can.

Thanks

Kildrought

What recommendations are the school making? Have they referred him for an Educational Pyschologist assessment?

LegacyUser

IMO, leave the poor child be a bit. My Daughter (8) has an expressive language disability and has always had problems with reading / writing. She was in the 20 week read & recovery plan last year (2007/2008), and has only got as far as week 16 before getting stuck. The pressure on her was immense, she would have her normal reader to do and 3 little books from read & recovery EVERY DAY!!!! She was exhausted and was missing out on the normal cirruculum when she had to leave the room to go to read & recovery. Please just for the record, the read & recovery was brilliant and it did help, the point I'm trying to make is that you are putting to much pressure on the poor child!

We then decided to let her repeat 1st class and not to do the read & recovery this year (2008/2009), just to give her a bit of a break. Had a chat with her class teacher the other day and she is flying, her reading is on par and her writing is brilliant. I could not believe the change in just one year! Best thing we ever could have done for her! She is also much more relaxed & confident now and more willing to do her normal homework. She even reads for pleasure now, not just for homework!

So, to summarise, I think you should let your child repeat 1st class and just let him be a child for a while, stop with all these extra things for just a little while and let him just concentrate on his normal cirruculum. What he needs is your support to build his confidence in what he can do well and not to keep looking at what he's lacking off. Where I come from children only start school at 6, and I do firmly believe that there is a good reason for that.

LegacyUser

Hi, is he attending a speech and language therapist? if not, a review (or an assessment if not seen by one before) would be a good idea. You say he has speech problems, and was slow to talk, which would predispose him to having more chance of written language i.e reading difficulties. Often intelligent kids struggle in school because of specific language disorder. He may just have a gap in this area of learning which could be plugged with specific professional help. hope this helps.

LegacyUser

Its funny how we obsess about our kids school preformance. Of course we want our children to do well in school and get a good education. I was told my son by his first teacher that she thought he had a speech impediment. He dosent. Next he was shipped off to extra maths and english reading classes. Now he can read and write and do maths but seems he needs the extra one to one attension. The school in question is very high achieving and I was told had he been in another school, that he wouldnt even be getting extra help, thats scary!

I used to obsess and think there was something wrong with him. There isnt. Some children are not suited to very structured learning envoiriments. He came home from school when he started and said "why do we all have to stay in the same seat all the time?" Everybody learns in very different ways and to have only one type of learning availlable is wrong. My son isnt as "academically achieving" as others in his class. But they are not all as sociable, sporty and creative as he is. Wanting our children to do extreamly well in school and putting very high expectations on our children is unfair and unrealistic.

beer enigma

We have a similar situation & man is it stressful !! - I can empathise with what you are going through. "leaving the child a bit" and "obsession about performance" dont really cut it when you have a young fella struggling.

Mine is 6 & just finishing his first year in school - he's was belatedly diagnosed with hearing problem, which although corrected now, is very likely the cause of some of his issues - delayed speech, balance/co-ordination which is impacting on his writing skills & he's in danger of being left behind if we cant address it. MOST importantly, he gets frustrated because he can't do what his classmates can - basic stuff like drawing/colouring & that really upsets him and led to broken sleep/nightmares etc.

We've been through the speech therapy & had OT assessments before - his speech came on miles with the speech therapy, but there were more issues that needed addressing.

We had so many recommendations coming at us from Speech & language, brother of Charity (local healthcare) & most worrying the OT diagnosed DCD but didn't seem to know what it was !!.

In the end I approached our GP, mainly because he's a family guy like ourselves & has a wealth of experience in pediatrics. He asked us to get all the 'letters' and tests etc together as well as info from his teacher. His teacher was brilliant and she offered to put together a kind of 'profile' - just detailing where she see his difficulties are.

Our GP sent them onto one of the top local Pediatrician Consultants - guy called Dr Sami Ahmed. Our GP basically sent a covering letter asking him to review the info & then meet with our lad. The meeting didn't occur for about 6 weeks as there was a pile of info, but when we did meet, he immediately discounted most of the theories & recommendations....that was a huge relief to us.

He referred us to an OT specialist & this time we seem to have hit gold. After a very short time with the OT, we're seeing a massive change - through anti fidget cushions, pencil grips & specific exercises, he's starting to gain ground. His concentration in class has improved no end, to the degree that the teacher called us over to comment - he even won 'student of the week' !!.

We're a long way from being out of the woods yet, but he's much happier in himself, sleeping better, performing better - no longer afraid of colouring. I know its a long road, but I honestly now feel we are in the right direction. The 'therapy' he was originally getting wasn't co-ordinated, nor helping him - he was tired & unhappy & that in itself was forming a barrier I believe.

Possibly more important - the letter from the Pediatrician has been accepted by the school & it looks as though he's going to get an SNA next year (gold-dust).

The OT cost us €350 for the initial assessment & its €100 per session afterwards.

It looks like you've pretty much tried most things, but it may be worth getting someone you trust such as your GP just to have an overall look - I found we had so many recommendations coming in (along with requests for money) that we lost focus.

Hope that helps - feel free to PM

Andi

Fink Goddie

i wouldnt worry about him too soon. My aunt was told her son would never get far i school that he was a bit slow.
He's now a professor.

FullOf..IT

Andip wrote: »

I can empathise with what you are going through. "leaving the child a bit" and "obsession about performance" dont really cut it when you have a young fella struggling.

Andi

My motives exactly, Im not trying to live my life through my son.


What is OT and SNA.

Thanks for the reply, might take you up on the PM offer...

Nevyn

OT Occupational Therapy
SNA Special Needs Assistant.

There is very very little public OT available even with a proper referral but the results seem to be worth it for a lot of parents to pay for it privately.

My son ( who has aspergers disorder ) has an sna in school and learning support, he's ahead of the curve and need more challenges which the learning support provides and the sna keeps him on track in the class or takes him for a time out walk if he needs it when he gets bored or frustrated, she has been a gods send.

Moobui

8000 euro is a lot of money to spend, what kind of therapists were you working with?

beer enigma

Andip wrote: »

Possibly more important - the letter from the Pediatrician has been accepted by the school & it looks as though he's going to get an SNA next year (gold-dust).Andi

School just phoned to confirm initial 3 hrs per week of 1-2-1 with a Special Needs Assistant for next term

byhookorbycrook

Andip, I presume you mean three hours with a resource teacher?An SNA looks after physical needs, doen not teach. Resource teaching need not be one to one, by the way, depends on the needs of the child. Best of luck to you both, hope all works out well for you.

Moobui

Resource teaching is supposed to be one to one whereas learning support is more than one child.

LegacyUser

+1 for Dr. Sami - he's smart, reassuring and good.

Do make sure that you talk to the school esp the Principal.

They will have seen this sort of thing before and will have a good idea of where to look for help. I'd prefer a recommendation from the school rather than looking up the phonebook or google for therapy providers who may cost an arm and a leg.

Also - resources for NEPS (National education psychology service) are thin on the ground and the school needs to obtain a critical mass of students to be assessed even though not all will be assessed (Celtic Tiger didn't care ).

Our kid is going into 5th class this year and his SNA is being transferred to another class. He's gone from being terribly disruptive to a model student.

It is a slog. Our school always did their best to emphasise the good parts (he is gifted) and reported the encouraging changes whilst not glossing over behavioural issues.

Don't forget that educational assessments etc can be claimed back on your Med1 form next tax year and some schemes like the Hospital Saturday Fund can also help.

byhookorbycrook

Moobui wrote: »

Resource teaching is supposed to be one to one whereas learning support is more than one child.

Resource does not have to be one to one, for example a child might need help socially.

Moobui

There is a distinction between learning support and resource teaching. Children with low incidence disabilities qualify for resource teaching (individual teaching) while children with high incidence disabilities qualify for learning support which can be classroom based or by withdrawal in small groups.

byhookorbycrook

Moobui, have to disagree, resource does NOT have to be one to one or indeed withdrawal, we clarified this two years ago with the DES ,one to one , depending on the child and his /her priority learning needs of course as outlined in the IEP, may not be the best thing for the child.

Moobui

Thanks for clarifying that. I understand that neither type of tuition have to be by withdrawal, I am not sure I said they had to be that way. In my experience though the situation in most schools is that resource tuition is generally one to one and the point I was trying to make was the distinction between the type of disability that qualifies for resource or learning support tuition, for example it is highly unlikely that a dyslexic child would receive one to one tuition in school. Regarding IEPs, I understand that these are not widely implemented so the tuition is generally allocated on the basis of the child's assessment, do you find that this is the case?

byhookorbycrook

hi Moobui, 6 of my 7 college friends are in SEN teaching, we all do IEPs although there is no legal requirement to do so.I agree that children with dyslexia will most likely not get one to one, they will be lucky to be in a group of less than 4 , if at all.

Moobui

It is great to hear that you and your friends are doing IEPs as they are so important. I have encountered a lot of teachers who will not do them until they are a legal requirement and I think it will be a long time before that happens.

beer enigma

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Andip, I presume you mean three hours with a resource teacher?An SNA looks after physical needs, doen not teach. Resource teaching need not be one to one, by the way, depends on the needs of the child. Best of luck to you both, hope all works out well for you.

School are talking about using SNA as he has co-ordination issues (pencil grip, balance etc).

Principal has been on to advise that he has a move + sit cushion ordered and an angled board already in place, so great to have a pro-active head behind us

itiseasy

this is at the discretion of the principal but i personally believe it should be one to one as it needs to be tailored to the childs specific needs.

itiseasy

FullOf..IT wrote: »

Hi,

My son has just got back his results from the Sigma T and Micra T tests which he done 2 months ago in first class.

He got a 4 for the Sigma and a 1 and 3 for the Micra, the 1 for class based and 3 for age based.

He started to talk later than expected. He has always struggled with his reading and writing and still has trouble with some of his pronunciation.

I am in the dsame boat and devasted really. My son too seems bright but did badly in first class standardised tests. i Realize now he suffers from ASPERGERS.His symptoms tick all boxes in everything ive read.where to go from here is the problem. leave him a bit is not an option for me or for your child . was interested to read your experience of cluas. saw the ad and was considering trial. it seems too expensive for me and is it worth it for the results you seem to hav achieved?

Nevyn

First step is to talk to the school about getting an referral to have him assessed by an educational child physiologist only they can say diagnose him. Once that process is started usually the other supports come on stream.

uriah

itiseasy wrote: »

FullOf..IT wrote: »

Hi,

My son has just got back his results from the Sigma T and Micra T tests which he done 2 months ago in first class.

He got a 4 for the Sigma and a 1 and 3 for the Micra, the 1 for class based and 3 for age based.

He started to talk later than expected. He has always struggled with his reading and writing and still has trouble with some of his pronunciation.

I am in the dsame boat and devasted really. My son too seems bright but did badly in first class standardised tests. i Realize now he suffers from ASPERGERS.His symptoms tick all boxes in everything ive read.where to go from here is the problem. leave him a bit is not an option for me or for your child . was interested to read your experience of cluas. saw the ad and was considering trial. it seems too expensive for me and is it worth it for the results you seem to hav achieved?

It is most important that you talk to the teacher / school /your GP before you do anything.

itiseasy

uriah wrote: »

itiseasy wrote: »

It is most important that you talk to the teacher / school /your GP before you do anything.

I know and have discussed with principal and will of course get assessment done in order to confirm what I know. I suppose I need more general help on how to deal with the trains and dinosaur obsession - do i try to steer him off that course and try to get him interested in something else? Have given up on sport he refuses to partake. Or do I go with his flow and submerge the whole family in train spotting and dinosaur books?

Nevyn

Start with the assement and then go from there is my suggestion.
Once that is done then there are a range of rescources advailible.
We were lucky and my son was offered a place in the intresting years dina school program which was a gods send and found Tony Atwood books to bea great help.

FullOf..IT

FullOf..IT wrote: »

Hi,

My son has just got back his results from the Sigma T and Micra T tests which he done 2 months ago in first class.

He got a 4 for the Sigma and a 1 and 3 for the Micra, the 1 for class based and 3 for age based.

He started to talk later than expected. He has always struggled with his reading and writing and still has trouble with some of his pronunciation.

We have sent him here... www.Cluas.ie as we seen an ad for them and he had some of the symptoms that they described. He was assessed and they told us that there was a prolem with how his brain processed infomation (from right ear to left side of the brain if this makes sense but it could have been the other way round), is this some form of dsylexia?

We got him the tomatis therapy on offer and we did see some improvements. He was re assessed after the therapy and improvenments were made to how he was hearing and processing infomation we were told. In addition to the tomatis we are carrying out NDT exercises with him and meet with a NDT therapist regularly at cluas

He is also carrying out another session at the recommendation of those at cluas but now with the results of the sigm / micra tests we are frustrated and feeling more and more powerless. It has not been cheap to get the tomatis done (we will have spent €8k when this session is finished) and we are starting to question if this was the correct avenue to go down.

Should we seek a 2nd opinion and where?
Should we look at keeping him back a year (he only turned 7 in april this year, is he too young for 1 st class?)
Should we look at special needs schools? (kills me to say this).

His teacher and the people at cluas have said that he is an intellegent boy and i can say this too but i dont know how objective my assessment is.

Thanks in advance for first reading this and 2nd for offering any advice you can.

Thanks

Hi All,

Sorry to drag up an old post but I have hit a wall and need some more advice.

My son was assessed a few months as by an Educational Psychologist. He was diagnosed with dyslexia but had an above average intelligence.

She suggested material and a specialist school that deals with kids with reading difficulties. We purchased the recommend reading / maths material and my son has made progress through these.

We made contact with this school with the attention of placing him there from next year. They only do 2 years for each student so he would be starting in 3rd class.

We were offered a place and from speaking to other parents who had sent their kids there the feedback was excellent and we finally felt that we were getting somewhere and the frustration of the sitution was coming to an end as we had this light at the end of the tunnel.

That was until today.

The principle sent us an invite to come and visit the school today.

I could not attend due to work commitments and the short notice. My better half went with my mother. The end result was that the principle withdrew the offer of a place due to my child being too immature (Child is 8 next month and currently in 2nd class so maybe a bit young). This 'assessment' was gathered all within an hour.

My child is shy and inward. He becames very withdrawn when introduced to strangers. The principle offered 2 other students to show him around but he clung to his mother and wouldnt go. Maybe this is a bit childish but shouldnt placement in this type of school be based on the needs of the child and not an assessment taken over the course of an hr. IMO he was refused beacuse of his shyness / confidence as if he had have gone with the other kids there would have been no problem.

I am in a place now where the frustration is creeping back in. I intend to ring the principle but i will leave for a few days as I am not in the corrrect frame of mind
for an assertive discussion.

I would appreciate any input on either what next step to take with the school or some suggestions on how to get more son more confidence / more open with strangers.

I know i am basing my analyse on second hand and quite possibly biased info from my mother and girlfriend so i would appreciate soem honest feedback.

Thanks in advance

coldwood92

are the school making any recomdations

FullOf..IT

coldwood92 wrote: »

are the school making any recomdations

Which one? The one visited today just said to stay in contact.

We will discuss with current principle over the next few day

coldwood92

the old school

smelltheglove

Sorry to hear about that. Some children are very naturally shy and I would agree myself that it is a rash decision to make in an hour considering the school should be paying attention to his needs. I would speak to the principal sooner rather than later so he knows that you really are dedicated to getting the best for your son and feel the need for this spot. Maybe explain that the shyness is just a stranger thing and he opens up quickly when he gets to know people. Its a normal way for children to behave. The principal may have other reasons that he did not put across easily so give him a chance to do this if possible.

I recommend calling tomorrow if you can, reason being I know one of the schools close to us with limited spaces gave preference to parents who made the better attempts to secure places.

FullOf..IT

smelltheglove wrote: »

Sorry to hear about that. Some children are very naturally shy and I would agree myself that it is a rash decision to make in an hour considering the school should be paying attention to his needs. I would speak to the principal sooner rather than later so he knows that you really are dedicated to getting the best for your son and feel the need for this spot. Maybe explain that the shyness is just a stranger thing and he opens up quickly when he gets to know people. Its a normal way for children to behave. The principal may have other reasons that he did not put across easily so give him a chance to do this if possible.

I recommend calling tomorrow if you can, reason being I know one of the schools close to us with limited spaces gave preference to parents who made the better attempts to secure places.

Was thinking along these lines mself. There probably were other things and I will ring tomorrow. I think the school you mentioned may be the same one as I am in Lucan myself. I didnt want to name it as I dont want to give out a bad impression of the school which maybe unfair and undermine the good work that they obviously do. Could you PM me if you could assist anymore?

Thanks for your reply

smelltheglove

I've pm'd you there, I dont think it is the same school, the one I was referring to was the secondary school.