Irish Oil off the Mayo coast for free!!!!

marabhfuil

I, and not I alone, do find the reasoning behind the practical wholesale giveaway of the Corrib gasfield, off the coast of Mayo, to Shell Statoil and Marathon oil companies quite an extraordinary act of national traitorism and equally befuddling is the almost complete and utter disinterest in the deal done by our government by both the Irish public and media in the main.

Norwegian health and social welfare makes Irelands look like a third world nation in comparison and it is a well known fact that the Norwegians, thanks to the shrewd actions taken on behalf of their nation by their government at the time that deposits of natural gas and oil were discovered within their sovereign territory by setting up a national state oil company in Statoil, would not have the top class model of social services that they benefit from today.

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros. Or fifty one billion three hundred million euros. Whatever way you write or look at it that is a considerable amount of money. That would go a fair way dealing with the current crisis would it not?

Why has the Irish government made the decision not to start up our own state owned gas company? Why not invest in the equipment and expertice to do so and keep the profit made for the people of Ireland. Why not invest a Billion in the starting of a company and reap the benefit for generations to come? Strange dealings have been done. Shadowy figures are invoved. Dead ends and hollow excuses surround this whole thing entirely. The political debate is mute. But why?

Do you know that it is within our constitutional rights to reposses this resource, that we could simply take back the Corrib gas field? Yes we can. Our constitution makes provision for it. So why, especially in such a time of economic distress, is this avenue not being investigated and debated? Something smells fishey. Something reeks. Does anybody else smell it, the unmistakeable odour of rot and corruption? Fester. Putrification. Plenty of words for it. But in the end they all mean the same thing. Our government is rotten.

Does anybody actually know for how much has the Corrib gas field been given away? I bet some of you do and i bet some of you are going to be very surprised to find out!!!

Sponge Bob

It is not free, you gotta spend €50m a pop drilling holes to find it !

Then you gotta build a big big pipeline to bring it ashore in Cork Harbour because all the rest of the coast is infested with crushties .

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is not free, you gotta spend €50m a pop drilling holes to find it !

Then you gotta build a big big pipeline to bring it ashore in Cork Harbour because all the rest of the coast is infested with crushties .

Ahh but the gas has already been found...
And more since has been discovered in the area too.
So why not invest in its exploitation and hence profit from its sale by far far more than we invested.

ps...you sound like a badly informed garda or else somebody who has his head firmly shoved up his h*l#

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is not free, you gotta spend €50m a pop drilling holes to find it !

Then you gotta build a big big pipeline to bring it ashore in Cork Harbour because all the rest of the coast is infested with crushties .

Whose talking bout Cark ye simpleton

Sponge Bob

marabhfuil wrote: »

Whose talking bout Cark ye simpleton

It is as I said Cork, a large town on the South Coast of Ireland and not Cark near Sellafield . Shoulda gone to Specsavers methinks .

colrow

What about the deepwater find i read about last year i think, 100 miles out from kerry, a deepwater find that exxonmobile is supposed to be financing, if i remember correctly

Sponge Bob

Bring that into Cork as well .

colrow

Nah i was thinking more somewhere like sneem

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is as I said Cork, a large town on the South Coast of Ireland and not Cark near Sellafield . Shoulda gone to Specsavers methinks .

I was slaggin off the accent boigh
obviously went over your head.

marabhfuil

colrow wrote: »

What about the deepwater find i read about last year i think, 100 miles out from kerry, a deepwater find that exxonmobile is supposed to be financing, if i remember correctly

Who should benefit from these resources? The Irish people or some ****ing prick over in texas who already has more money than the greedy bastard can spend!!!!!

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is as I said Cork, a large town on the South Coast of Ireland and not Cark near Sellafield . Shoulda gone to Specsavers methinks .

Let me get this straight. Answer me this question with a yes or no okay.
Do you have something against the people of Ireland exploiting and benefiting from their own natural resources?

ravima

Theres nothing to stop any Irish citizen applying for a licence and then drillingfor oil/gas. have you applied yourself?

Sponge Bob

What risks have we ever taken in order to earn a reward ??

You gonna tell us where to find a ghawar are you ??

marabhfuil

ravima wrote: »

Theres nothing to stop any Irish citizen applying for a licence and then drillingfor oil/gas. have you applied yourself?

What are you talking about!!! how the **** could any ordinary person ever afford to drill for ****ing oil in a sea man!!!!
I'm suggesting that our country take back our national natural resource so that we benefit.. Do you understand?

Sponge Bob

But we cannot benefit without drilling €50m holes in the seabed which may prove worthless . Where is that ghawar anyway ??

Cool Mo D

Really, we should spend a fortune trying to find stuff in the sea when there's only been a couple of small finds in 40 years? For example, the entire amount of gas in the Corrib field is less gas than Russia produces every 2 weeks - it's not exactly the bonanza.

And we are making making the money back - the state never has to pay a single cent on exploration, and all profits from Oil and Gas finds, including the Corrib field are taxed at double the normal rate into the exchequer.

And Norway started their industry by letting private industries have at it - it was only when they found seriously large amounts that they started Statoil. And so far we have only found small fields in Ireland, like Kinsale, or the Corrib, so it's not worth our while setting up a state company.

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What risks have we ever taken in order to earn a reward ??

You gonna tell us where to find a ghawar are you ??

Man... whats your problem

If you dont want to debate then this go **** yourself

Its not about you or I.

This is about a multinational corporation that will end up profiting from the resources of our country while we have to buy our own gas back from them. now if you dont want to engage as to whether if anything should or could be done about it then piss off

marabhfuil

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Really, we should spend a fortune trying to find stuff in the sea when there's only been a couple of small finds in 40 years? For example, the entire amount of gas in the Corrib field is less gas than Russia produces every 2 weeks - it's not exactly the bonanza.

And we are making making the money back - the state never has to pay a single cent on exploration, and all profits from Oil and Gas finds, including the Corrib field are taxed at double the normal rate into the exchequer.

In fact your wrong. Shell etc have been given the right to wright off the expenses of the building of the process plant and oil rig etc and more off against their tax bill which should be being taxed at the rate you say but it is not going to be.

I havent the info on hand but its in the region of 10-12% of their disclosed profit is all they are going to have to pay

Sponge Bob

I will happily spend my last €50m on a ghawar , I have no problem with that.

You evidently have a problem with my not having a problem with that or else you suffer from Tourettes based on some of your prior utterances ....so either way you have a problem .

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But we cannot benefit without drilling €50m holes in the seabed which may prove worthless . Where is that ghawar anyway ??

You just **** off okay.
If you dont want to talk about the Corrib gas field and its repossesion- Should it be or not okay.thats the topic

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I will happily spend my last €50m on a ghawar , I have no problem with that.

You evidently have a problem with my not having a problem with that or else you suffer from Tourettes based on some of your prior utterances ....so either way you have a problem .

OOOHHH somebody used dirty words did they.
Yes i have a problem with the sort of idiocy that on a national scale can create such a country of deficients that the fact we are being robbed is beyond their comprehension. such an idiocy as you yourself seem to be exhibiting

Sponge Bob

marabhfuil wrote: »

You just **** off okay.
If you dont want to talk about the Corrib gas field and its repossesion- Should it be or not okay.thats the topic

Repossession by whom , The Killybegs Fishermen perhaps ??

marabhfuil

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Really, we should spend a fortune trying to find stuff in the sea when there's only been a couple of small ...

And Norway started their industry by letting private industries have at it - it was only when they found seriously large amounts that they started Statoil. And so far we have only found small fields in Ireland, like Kinsale, or the Corrib, so it's not worth our while setting up a state company.

Why should we not fully benefit from the exploitation of this field? Why should the profit derived not go directly to the Irish people?
We could actually reposses that field even though it is already tapped.
I see no excuse to not.

marabhfuil

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Repossession by whom , The Killybegs Fishermen perhaps ??

You really are part of the problem aren't you. I thought you were just being a prick.
I'm outta here

Cool Mo D

marabhfuil wrote: »

In fact your wrong. Shell etc have been given the right to wright off the expenses of the building of the process plant and oil rig etc and more off against their tax bill which should be being taxed at the rate you say but it is not going to be.

I havent the info on hand but its in the region of 10-12% of their disclosed profit is all they are going to have to pay

Yes, all companies can do this. Profit is the money left over after you've built all your plant and paid for everything, so obviously they won't be able to be taxed on profit until the cost of their facility is accounted for. They will still be paying double the normal corporation tax.

And why would it be worth setting up a national oil/gas company when very little oil and gas has been found in Ireland? The Corrib field is not a big find, and there have only been 2 small finds in the last 40 years or so. It's hardly worth setting a company up for.

The only way for the country to make money on a national gas and oil company is to have it so that the cost of running the company and exploring our seas and extracting and refining the gas and oil would be less than the net profit made by a foreign company. That requires large proven amounts of oil and gas under the sea, and Ireland does not have large proven gas and oil reserves under the sea, even though people have been looking for decades.
It is a better deal for Shell to pump our gas, and us to tax them, because it saves us the cost of setting up a company and it learning how to operate from scratch, when Shell already has the knowledge and experience in how to do it.

Even if we did have a national company we would still be paying them for oil and gas, the same as we're paying shell, it would be no benefit to the consumer paying for gas.

Sponge Bob

marabhfuil wrote: »

I'm outta here

Leave your ghawar behind before you go, theres a good lad. I will PM you the Specsavers voucher code on Politics.ie where we will inevitably find you next

old boy

marabhfuil wrote: »

You really are part of the problem aren't you. I thought you were just being a prick.
I'm outta here

op, go back to sleep, when you wake up please take all you prescribed medication.

nesf

marabhfuil wrote: »

You just **** off okay.
If you dont want to talk about the Corrib gas field and its repossesion- Should it be or not okay.thats the topic

As I said in the other thread of yours, any more of the above and you'll be banned from this forum.

irish_bob

marabhfuil wrote: »

I, and not I alone, do find the reasoning behind the practical wholesale giveaway of the Corrib gasfield, off the coast of Mayo, to Shell Statoil and Marathon oil companies quite an extraordinary act of national traitorism and equally befuddling is the almost complete and utter disinterest in the deal done by our government by both the Irish public and media in the main.

Norwegian health and social welfare makes Irelands look like a third world nation in comparison and it is a well known fact that the Norwegians, thanks to the shrewd actions taken on behalf of their nation by their government at the time that deposits of natural gas and oil were discovered within their sovereign territory by setting up a national state oil company in Statoil, would not have the top class model of social services that they benefit from today.

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros. Or fifty one billion three hundred million euros. Whatever way you write or look at it that is a considerable amount of money. That would go a fair way dealing with the current crisis would it not?

Why has the Irish government made the decision not to start up our own state owned gas company? Why not invest in the equipment and expertice to do so and keep the profit made for the people of Ireland. Why not invest a Billion in the starting of a company and reap the benefit for generations to come? Strange dealings have been done. Shadowy figures are invoved. Dead ends and hollow excuses surround this whole thing entirely. The political debate is mute. But why?

Do you know that it is within our constitutional rights to reposses this resource, that we could simply take back the Corrib gas field? Yes we can. Our constitution makes provision for it. So why, especially in such a time of economic distress, is this avenue not being investigated and debated? Something smells fishey. Something reeks. Does anybody else smell it, the unmistakeable odour of rot and corruption? Fester. Putrification. Plenty of words for it. But in the end they all mean the same thing. Our government is rotten.

Does anybody actually know for how much has the Corrib gas field been given away? I bet some of you do and i bet some of you are going to be very surprised to find out!!!

ireland already has an extremley generous social wellfare system and we spend a fortune on health , only problem is our nurses and doctors decided a long time ago they wanted all the money spent on thier wages as opposed to beds, add to that , the army of surplus pen pushers who,s only reason for employment in the hse is so the local fianna fail td continues to top the poll

turgon

Ah yes. The easy, I cant see further than the tip of my nose, just take all the oil and we'll be loaded. Sure look at the cost of it at the pumps, its gotta be worth something.

Being realistic, the government had two options:

1. Charge a 50% levy on all profits made from the oil, on top of the other taxes on oil. No company would have come here because it would have been to expensive. Total tax take = €0.
2. Get rid of the 50% levy. Charge 12% corporation tax, get loads of income tax from workers ( gas workers make loads) and get some employment going down in Corrib. Total tax take = €millions and millions.

Of course the Shell-to-Sea etc campaigners dont understand that lower tax rates sometimes equals higher tax take. Such thinking would be a bit too much for them, better to throw abuse at the Gardai.

And this farce that the government could take the oil, and we will be as great as the Scandinavians. What do these campaigners have to say to the fact that we have virtually no gas in comparison to the Norwegians? Usually nothing, they just throw abuse again.

TheInquisitor

For the most profitable fields in ireland companies will have to pay a tax rate of 40% on profits. I can't believe we're lucky enough to get that out of companies since there's feck all natural resources in ireland compared to otehr countries and it costs a load to drill for them because all of the gas/ oil is off the coast in the atlantic! It would cost a fortune to set up a National resource company, decades to learn the expertise and even then the cost wouldn't be worth the benefit because ireland has crap all oil/gas.

By the way the value of the corrib gas field is max 10 billion. It is theorised that other fields in the area could bring the value up to 30-50 billion but that is just guesswork and will cost billions to prove and expolit

astrofool

So, the answer to a bloated public employee wage bill is to....

Set up a gas exploration and drilling company for our one gas field, as a semi state company.

We have some genii on these shores.

turgon

But you see astorfool, these people dont want to think about the pragmatics of their solution, they only think of the ideal that the oil is ours.

As Conrad said "What redeems it is the idea only."

Aidan1

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros.

Rubbish. Corrib is widely quoted as containing around 1tscuf of gas - putting it somewhat smaller than the Kinsale field. Depending on the price of gas over the life of the field, and the eventual recoverability of the wells (Seven Heads proved to be much less worthwhile than expected, after all), the likely value in today's money is of the order of €6-8bn. The development costs are generally quoted at being in excess of €1bn (probably more now - those figures were in the press in 2005), leaving 'profit' of €5-€7bn, of which the state gets 25% in Corporation tax (double the normal rate). And of course our security of supply situation gets very much improved.

1huge1

I'll be honest I never read much into the whole corrib gas issue but if your average corrib gas campaigner is as arragont as the OP I sure wouldn't be giving them my support with such an elitist attitude where everyone else is wrong and wont even listen to reason quoting exaggerated figures.

This is not a personal attack but I do believe if the OP actually read some of the responses he could of had the debate he was supposdly looking for.

dermo88

1. The Rock and Shale where the Oil and gas are contained off the Irish West Coast lie in some of the worst sea conditions in the world.

2. They lie at a considerable depth.

3. The Rock is fragmented, which makes accessing this resource difficult and expensive.

4. It will not (initially) yield as much as the Scandinavian or North Se oil fields.

These are the difficulties. Therefore, I state let the private sector handle the risk and the reward. Should it become productive, the public sector can get involved with a Nationalised Oil company, set up on similar lines to Malaysia's Petronas, Norways Statoil etc, and the taxes yielded from the initial revenues can go to finance this.

I do have misgivings, however, on WHO allocated the licences to the various companies. Who was in charge of the Department of Energy at that time.

It was not Saint Patrick, thats for sure. It was none other than Raphael (Ray) Burke, who has since been proven to be one of Irelands more visibly corrupt politicians.

1. Statoil claim that we are "giving" the oil away. Considering the geological conditions, at present there is no other option, except to tax it at a relatively low rate. This ensures that risk is rewarded. A poor man never got rich by making a rich man poor.

2. Oil in large quantities will not be a panacea to Irelands economic problems. On the contrary, it is in fact likely to make Ireland less competitive, and make the economy even more imbalanced than it ever was on the property market. We may look at Norway, but the effects of oil on Norway, its economy, its currency exchange rate have been to make it 2 - 3 times more expensive than comparable economies.

3. Oil has a nasty tendency to "crowd" out other productive sectors of the economy.

4. Oil is a medium term 1-2 generation crutch which should be invested wisely. Do you REALLY trust Irish politicians to do that, considering what has prevailed over the past year?

In short, an oil find would be nice, but it would'nt be long before it caused problems. It would turn Ireland into somewhere as corrupt as Malaysia with a climate a bit better than Norway.

eamonnm79

Aidan1 wrote: »

Rubbish. Corrib is widely quoted as containing around 1tscuf of gas - putting it somewhat smaller than the Kinsale field. Depending on the price of gas over the life of the field, and the eventual recoverability of the wells (Seven Heads proved to be much less worthwhile than expected, after all), the likely value in today's money is of the order of €6-8bn. The development costs are generally quoted at being in excess of €1bn (probably more now - those figures were in the press in 2005), leaving 'profit' of €5-€7bn, of which the state gets 25% in Corporation tax (double the normal rate). And of course our security of supply situation gets very much improved.

Hi Aidan.
You seem to be quite knowlegable on this so I was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.

Who found the Corrib gas field?
Was it Shell or a smaller Gas exploration company?

Apart from the development costs what other costs would there be over the years of exploration? In other words how much of the 5-7 million would there actually be in profit?
Will the costs be tax deductable?
Someothers have said the tax rate will be 40%
Is it 25% or 40%
Wont it be quite easy for shell to hide/reduce their actual profitsby moving cost centres?

Giving away 75% of 5-7 billion, lets say 4.5 billion to a multinational of our natural resources when they only have to make 1 billion development cost seems a little foolish?
Even if Ireland inc were twice as expensive to make the pipeline and other infrastructure required it would still save the Irish economy 3.5 billion.
Dont we already have some expertise in this area working in Bord Gais?
So it wouldnt be like we are starting from scratch?

astrofool

eamonnm79 wrote: »

Hi Aidan.
You seem to be quite knowlegable on this so I was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.

Who found the Corrib gas field?
Was it Shell or a smaller Gas exploration company?

Apart from the development costs what other costs would there be over the years of exploration? In other words how much of the 5-7 million would there actually be in profit?
Will the costs be tax deductable?
Someothers have said the tax rate will be 40%
Is it 25% or 40%
Wont it be quite easy for shell to hide/reduce their actual profitsby moving cost centres?

Giving away 75% of 5-7 billion, lets say 4.5 billion to a multinational of our natural resources when they only have to make 1 billion development cost seems a little foolish?
Even if Ireland inc were twice as expensive to make the pipeline and other infrastructure required it would still save the Irish economy 3.5 billion.
Dont we already have some expertise in this area working in Bord Gais?
So it wouldnt be like we are starting from scratch?

You could point to Venezuela, which has seen a radical nosedive in oil production since they nationalised, due to lack of expertise, leaving the country almost bankrupt.

Let the experts do their job (offshore drilling), if more fields are found, then it might be worth setting up a national company.

eamonnm79

astrofool wrote: »

You could point to Venezuela, which has seen a radical nosedive in oil production since they nationalised, due to lack of expertise, leaving the country almost bankrupt.

Let the experts do their job (offshore drilling), if more fields are found, then it might be worth setting up a national company.

I dont know if you are just ill informed or are diliberitely misleading but that analysis of Venezuela is complete and utter rubish.

turgon

A point to make: people are often times complaining that the government cant even organise a proper transport system; yet people want them to also branch into oil drilling. How ridiculous.

Also, apparently the Corrib Gas is owned by the Irish People. Is this the Irish people in the republic or the Island as a whole? Why does being a citizen of a country where there is oil entitle you to some it? Should we also stake a claim to Scotlands oil - it is in the EU you know. Should the oil only belong to those in Mayo? Or even Corrib?

I would really like some clarification on that point.

astrofool

eamonnm79 wrote: »

I dont know if you are just ill informed or are diliberitely misleading but that analysis of Venezuela is complete and utter rubish.

I'd love to see your analysis of Venezuela to the contrary, oil production is down 25% since Chavez began nationalising the oil over the last decade.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/3183417/Venezuelas-oil-output-slumps-under-Hugo-Chavez.html

And that's without going into the many social problems the country has, high inflation, inability to exchange currency, people leaving the country etc.

eamonnm79

astrofool wrote: »

I'd love to see your analysis of Venezuela to the contrary, oil production is down 25% since Chavez began nationalising the oil over the last decade.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/3183417/Venezuelas-oil-output-slumps-under-Hugo-Chavez.html

And that's without going into the many social problems the country has, high inflation, inability to exchange currency, people leaving the country etc.

The Dialy telegraph, enough said!

Pure pro corporate propaganda.



I enjoyed the last paragraph!
"All this means that Venezuela has missed much of the benefit from the oil boom and, now that prices are falling, Mr Chavez faces huge financial problems. Nobody is sure at what point his government would be unable to pay its bills, but most sources consulted believe this would probably happen if oil falls to $80 a barrel. Yesterday, oil was trading at $79.80.

Thankfully actual evidence is now available that "most sources consulted" are talking through their arse's. The last 8 months has seen prices range between $45 and $65 so obviously Venezuela have gone bankrupt and are in the hands of the IMF!

Oh wait, that never happened!

Look obviously we are in a global recession and poorer countries always fare proportionately worse but negative media commentary on any left leaning government are as common as paraletic nurses in copper face jacks.

j1smithy

marabhfuil wrote: »

I, and not I alone, do find the reasoning behind the practical wholesale giveaway of the Corrib gasfield, off the coast of Mayo, to Shell Statoil and Marathon oil companies quite an extraordinary act of national traitorism and equally befuddling is the almost complete and utter disinterest in the deal done by our government by both the Irish public and media in the main.

Norwegian health and social welfare makes Irelands look like a third world nation in comparison and it is a well known fact that the Norwegians, thanks to the shrewd actions taken on behalf of their nation by their government at the time that deposits of natural gas and oil were discovered within their sovereign territory by setting up a national state oil company in Statoil, would not have the top class model of social services that they benefit from today.

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros. Or fifty one billion three hundred million euros. Whatever way you write or look at it that is a considerable amount of money. That would go a fair way dealing with the current crisis would it not?

Why has the Irish government made the decision not to start up our own state owned gas company? Why not invest in the equipment and expertice to do so and keep the profit made for the people of Ireland. Why not invest a Billion in the starting of a company and reap the benefit for generations to come? Strange dealings have been done. Shadowy figures are invoved. Dead ends and hollow excuses surround this whole thing entirely. The political debate is mute. But why?

Do you know that it is within our constitutional rights to reposses this resource, that we could simply take back the Corrib gas field? Yes we can. Our constitution makes provision for it. So why, especially in such a time of economic distress, is this avenue not being investigated and debated? Something smells fishey. Something reeks. Does anybody else smell it, the unmistakeable odour of rot and corruption? Fester. Putrification. Plenty of words for it. But in the end they all mean the same thing. Our government is rotten.

Does anybody actually know for how much has the Corrib gas field been given away? I bet some of you do and i bet some of you are going to be very surprised to find out!!!

So what you suggest is that after we licence operators to look for natural resources that were by no means certain to be there, and after the licences were awarded and paid for, and the gas company was lucky enough to find gas after many expensive failed attempts, the government simply decides to just take it off them. Does that seem fair? Do you think many companies would see Ireland as a good place to do business?

There was a good reason for the favourible terms offered to Shell. No one really thought there was a significant deposit of gas in corrib field, let alone that it would even be extractable. I believe the government geologists also believed that, and gave that as advice to the minister. The sale of licences then looked like an easy way to generate cash, without much risk of giving too much national asset away. Corrib field is also deep and difficult to drill. We didn't have the resources to drill essentially random/best guess holes in the Atlantic. Or look at it this way.. newspaper headline "hundreds of million wasted on useless holes drilled off coast of Mayo" "while hospitals face cutbacks".

Finally, we are at the end of a very long pipe from Russia. I like the fact we will have security of supply.

Yes I would prefer that the corrib gas field was being extracted by a national company, and providing revenue for the government. However I am also intelligent enough to realise that such a company would have required a massive government outlay. The government would have been exposed to too much risk ie. spending well over a billion and possibly finding nothing.

Shell to Sea seem to ignore this and thats why I have no time for those clowns.

eamonnm79

j1smithy wrote: »

So what you suggest is that after we licence operators to look for natural resources that were by no means certain to be there, and after the licences were awarded and paid for, and the gas company was lucky enough to find gas after many expensive failed attempts, the government simply decides to just take it off them. Does that seem fair?

Are you sure thats the way it happened?
I thought, the way it works is that a smaller exploration company find the oil and then once they find it they either get a large company (like shell or exon or chevron) or the particular state to pay them a % of the oil they extract.

wylo

Can someone please put up a reputable link which contains info on the amount the corrib gas field is worth??

Seriously , its very frustrating the way people give off their own personal quotes with nothing to back it up.

Even recently, I was arguing with someone in work about it, with absolutely no research he told me that there was enough gas there that no one in this country would have to work again. It was the most ridiculous thing Id ever heard, and naturally hed nothing to back it up. But heres the problem , neither did I.
I want to settle that one once and for all.

Sponge Bob

Less than Kinsale and with a lower output . However if fields are discovered nearby ( within 30 miles) they may be "tied back" to Corrib meaning they are cheaper to get onstream .

Meanwhile to understand the lingo read THIS FIRST and ask questions based on it .

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Less than Kinsale and with a lower output . However if fields are discovered nearby ( within 30 miles) they may be "tied back" to Corrib meaning they are cheaper to get onstream .

Meanwhile to understand the lingo read THIS FIRST and ask questions based on it .

Like stealing a milkshake? sip sip sip.

Sponge Bob

He could always read this which is utterly basic but he needs to understand demand and the fact that gas is used to produce electricity etc .

eamonnm79

wylo wrote: »

Can someone please put up a reputable link which contains info on the amount the corrib gas field is worth??

Seriously , its very frustrating the way people give off their own personal quotes with nothing to back it up.

Even recently, I was arguing with someone in work about it, with absolutely no research he told me that there was enough gas there that no one in this country would have to work again. It was the most ridiculous thing Id ever heard, and naturally hed nothing to back it up. But heres the problem , neither did I.
I want to settle that one once and for all.

I completely agree wylo. There is a complete lack of openness and transparancy with regards to this issue. I smell a rat.

Spongebob thanks for trying to provide info but the only interesting thing I saw in the SBP article was "However, a spokeswoman for Bord Gais said that the Corrib gas would not necessarily result in lower gas prices.
The price of gas from the Corrib field will be linked to British wholesale prices, as the two gas markets are integrated and Corrib gas will displace some imports,” she said.
So All I have now are more questions.

Why not use the corrib field to reduce prices and help the economy become more competitive? Have the price of the gas already been agreed with shell. i.e. did the state agree (sign something) to pay them the British wholesale price?

Sponge Bob

The operator is allowed to charge UK prices becuase MOST of our gas , 90% . now comes from the UK transmission network and even after Corrib goes live and supplements Kinsale it is envisaged that the combination of the two will only produce 70% of our requirements and that this % will fall over time .

In other words we need a second Corrib to become self sufficient and a third to export .

If we do not get a second Corrib onstream ....and we can only technically achieve this quickly off Mayo or off Cork .....then we shall be back importing the majority of our gas from the UK by 2013 or 2014 . We will only get a few years where we produce teh majority of our own gas .

Technically achieving this requires that we find it , latest this year or next , and tie it back to Kinsale Head or Corrib and thereby into processing and onward transmission facilities like Inch or Bellinaboy .

If we find it off the coast of Clare there is no pipeline network or processing facility and a tieback would be complex

If we find it off the East Coast there is no processing facility except in Cork and Mayo , it would have to be built . Arklow would be a good bet for technical reasons

Long pipelines of unprocessed gas will always be susceptible to Hydrate Plugs ....which block them . Precisely how the f**k are you supposed to clean these out of a long pipeline that originates at 1000m below the sea on the seabed and runs 200km into a Processing terminal ??????

Here is a picture of Hydrate Plugging for the slower learners amongst us and a description of this key problem !





Had Corrib been 50 km further out and a few 100m's deeper then the risk of Hydrate Plugging may have been such that it was not developed at all .

There may be a lot of gas somewhere that is not trivial to pipe ashore from because of depth and hydrate. It may as well not be there at all in that case but it may be developed in 50 or 100 years ...long after the depletion of Corrib and Kinsale .

Long distance tiebacks of unprocessed gas are arecent development , in this decade .

Have a read of this

http://www.epmag.com/archives/features/2907.htm

Openness and Transparancy have nothing much to do with the issue . The complexity of getting deepwater gas a long distance ashore is a serious engineering challenge . The complexity of building a rig out there is huge !!

eamonnm79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The operator is allowed to charge UK prices becuase MOST of our gas , 90% . now comes from the UK transmission network and even after Corrib goes live and supplements Kinsale it is envisaged that the combination of the two will only produce 70% of our requirements and that this % will fall over time .

In other words we need a second Corrib to become self sufficient and a third to export .

If we do not get a second Corrib onstream ....and we can only technically achieve this quickly off Mayo or off Cork .....then we shall be back importing the majority of our gas from the UK by 2013 or 2014 . We will only get a few years where we produce teh majority of our own gas .

Technically achieving this requires that we find it , latest this year or next , and tie it back to Kinsale Head or Corrib and thereby into processing and onward transmission facilities like Inch or Bellinaboy .

If we find it off the coast of Clare there is no pipeline network or processing facility and a tieback would be complex

If we find it off the East Coast there is no processing facility except in Cork and Mayo , it would have to be built . Arklow would be a good bet for technical reasons

Long pipelines of unprocessed gas will always be susceptible to Hydrate Plugs ....which block them . Precisely how the f**k are you supposed to clean these out of a long pipeline that originates at 1000m below the sea on the seabed and runs 200km into a Processing terminal ??????

Here is a picture of Hydrate Plugging for the slower learners amongst us and a description of this key problem !





Had Corrib been 50 km further out and a few 100m's deeper then the risk of Hydrate Plugging may have been such that it was not developed at all .

There may be a lot of gas somewhere that is not trivial to pipe ashore from because of depth and hydrate. It may as well not be there at all in that case but it may be developed in 50 or 100 years ...long after the depletion of Corrib and Kinsale .

Long distance tiebacks of unprocessed gas are arecent development , in this decade .

Have a read of this

http://www.epmag.com/archives/features/2907.htm

Openness and Transparancy have nothing much to do with the issue . The complexity of getting deepwater gas a long distance ashore is a serious engineering challenge . The complexity of building a rig out there is huge !!

Genuinely thanks for all the info on gas drilling technicalities and difficulties, very interesting, however this does not answer my largely political and economic questions.
I also dont understand why you seem to loose the rag a little when talking about hydrate plugs I dont think anyone has siad anything about hydrate plugs till you mentioned them?

During the 5 year window that we are producing 70% of our own gas why can we not charge less for our gas than the wholesale uk price?
There is probobly a reason but I just dont know it.

Until you or anyone can start answering some basic economic political questions with regards to this then Openness and transperancey have everything to do with the issue.
This is ireland, the government is constantly bending over backwards to privitise profits in the public domain and socialise loses in the private domain.
Asking questions about the legitimacy of this project is totally in the public interest.