Poker Forum

RichieLawlor

The only shred of a chance of saving the poker forum is been washed down the drain by Kinetic', frankly retarded modding of it. I suspect its gonna be like a ghost town before anything is done. Kinetic is singlehandedly driving everyone to this new forum, sad way to go for the old 416

He has also gone and deleted nicnicnic wsop % sale thread, theres nearly 10 grand bought and sold in there.

Laxie

I don't normally get stuck into forum controversies, but have to say Kinetic has managed to push even the quiet ones away with lightening speed...myself included.

Hank Scorpio

total farce

DeadParrot

I never get involved in these things but deleting the % thread shows a complete lack of understanding in the poker forum, its users and a surprising lack of common sense.
Even if he was aggreived enough to lock it, deleting it was, for want of a better word, stupid.

To bring people who think its the poker forum users getting uppity up to speed, one of our members is a well respected poker pro who sold %'s of his action at this years World Series of Poker to other forum members. Given the amount of money to enter these tourneys ($10,000 for the main event alone), the potential mess this causes and the potential publicity lost of boards.ie in this makes this desicion staggering.

My name is URL

afaik the issues of the Poker Forum are been discussed & dealt with, and referring to anyone as 'retarded' isn't going to help either side, imo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60709057&postcount=453

RichieLawlor

My name is URL wrote: »

afaik the issues of the Poker Forum are been discussed & dealt with, and referring to anyone as 'retarded' isn't going to help either side, imo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60709057&postcount=453

I didnt refer to anyone as retarded.

5starpool

It has been undeleted by an admin.

Laxie

TBH, whilst 'retarded' was definitely not the best term under the circumstances, reality is any appropriate term would have probably resulted in a permanent ban. I'm a mod on other forums which is why I usually stay out of the way of trouble, but in all fairness it has gone beyond a joke.

El Stuntman

5starpool wrote: »

It has been undeleted by an admin.

good

the original deletion by Kinetic still reveals a staggering lack of judgement and also total ignorance of how the poker community operates.

(I am aware that it may seem bizarre to other Boards users that thousands of euro of financial commitments be made in a thread on a public forum but that's the way it works...)

Gordon

Lads please, 'retarded' comments were not on.

Discussion is being had, the only moderator there is moderating the forum, the other mods are on strike, a public announcement is due soon. Boards.ie is not a government body.. Play nice ffs.

Ponster

Gordon wrote: »

a public announcement is due soon.

Available for all to see in the Poker forum.....

Gordon

Ah yes http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055595086

seamus

Can someone explain to me - someone who knows how to play poker around a table with five mates and nothing more advanced - what a % WSOP thread is, why it's so important, and why it's appropriate for someone to apparently organise a major financial deal over a public discussion medium in which they have no control?

That's not me having a go, that's a genuine question - if you're making a complaint about something which you regard to be a big deal, you're going to need to explain why it's such a big deal.

Cheers.

My name is URL

RichieLawlor wrote: »

I didnt refer to anyone as retarded.

Well, if thats the case I apologise. I never posted in BBV but read it a whole lot. I intend to start posting in the Poker forum soon after I've learned the basics =p

The reason I got interested in poker is from reading through that forum and when any disrespect towards other members or staff is spotted, its a definite turn-off for any n00bs posting there.

El Stuntman

seamus wrote: »

Can someone explain to me - someone who knows how to play poker around a table with five mates and nothing more advanced - what a % WSOP thread is, why it's so important, and why it's appropriate for someone to apparently organise a major financial deal over a public discussion medium in which they have no control?

That's not me having a go, that's a genuine question - if you're making a complaint about something which you regard to be a big deal, you're going to need to explain why it's such a big deal.

Cheers.

WSOP = World Series of Poker, annual event in Las Vegas with approx 40 tournaments held in that time. Buy-ins range from $1k to $50k. Win one of the big events, you're a millionaire several times over.

It's common practice for poker pros to sell a percentage of their action in order to spread their risk e.g. if nicnicnic is laying out fifty grand of his own money to enter WSOP events, he may decide to sell 40% of his action in order to insure himself against the possibility of cashing for less money than he laid out in entry fees. Call it diversifying your risk.

nicnicnic is known as an excellent poker player and would be reckoned to be a good bet to cash in an event or two, maybe even cash big and win potentially millions. Therefore it makes sense for other poker forum posters to buy a percentage of nicnicnic in the anticipation of making a profit on their investment. Even if he doesn't make money, they still get the vicarious thrill of watching his progress in the WSOP!

The thread referenced above was the one where nicnicnic offered and sold 40% of his action in the WSOP. Serious money (in most people's terms - maybe not to poker players lol), hence the anger at the stupid decision to delete the thread.

hope this helps

RoundTower

Gordon wrote: »

Lads please, 'retarded' comments were spot on.

agree

I don't think someone who lives for Star Wars and LAN parties should be around a forum where games are played for actual money.

seamus

So if nicnic's buy-in is $50k and he sells 40% of his action to me, that means that I give him $20k towards his buy-in, and in return I get 40% of what he wins?

/b/

seamus wrote: »

So if nicnic's buy-in is $50k and he sells 40% of his action to me, that means that I give him $20k dollars, but in return I get 40% of what he wins?

Stop trying to be clever Moose.

Try just letting them flopping about.

Wreck

seamus wrote: »

So if nicnic's buy-in is $50k and he sells 40% of his action to me, that means that I give him $20k towards his buy-in, and in return I get 40% of what he wins?

Yeah that's it.

cooker3

seamus wrote: »

So if nicnic's buy-in is $50k and he sells 40% of his action to me, that means that I give him $20k towards his buy-in, and in return I get 40% of what he wins?

Exactly although in reality it will be broken up until smaller units of 1%, 2%, 5% amongst a number of people.

seamus

/b/ wrote: »

Stop trying to be clever Moose.

Try just letting them flopping about.

Want to post that in English Dave? Or even Engrish might work

Edit: Cheers guys. Seems odd that these kinds of transactions are carried out on boards, but if that's what ye've been doing up to now...

It's worth noting that threads will rarely be completely deleted. As you've spotted, any such actions can be undone (usually quickly!).

Kinetic^

Finally glad some of you took the advice to stop posting issues relating to the moderating of the site on the poker forum and post them were they belong.

While there were currently issues in relation to the BBV thread, that does not give posters the right to continually ignore moderator/administrator instruction or be abusive to each other or a member of the moderation/administration team. Any infractions or bans that were handed out were in relation to the above.

/b/

Wise up tbh

El Stuntman

seamus wrote: »

So if nicnic's buy-in is $50k and he sells 40% of his action to me, that means that I give him $20k towards his buy-in, and in return I get 40% of what he wins?

precisely

his action is sold though. You can have 50% of me though, I am playing in a very prestigious event called the 'Friday Night Scalps game' later this week. I am reckoned to be an excellent poker player, however I am extremely unlucky and we all know that poker is all about luck.

RoundTower

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Finally glad some of you took the advice to stop posting issues relating to the moderating of the site on the poker forum and post them were they belong.

While there were currently issues in relation to the BBV thread, that does not give posters the right to continually ignore moderator/administrator instruction or be abusive to each other or a member of the moderation/administration team. Any infractions or bans that were handed out were in relation to the above.

while I will hold back from giving my personal opinion of you as a person on this forum, I believe strongly that this post, and many of your other posts, are stupid.

phantom_lord

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Finally glad some of you took the advice to stop posting issues relating to the moderating of the site on the poker forum and post them were they belong.

While there were currently issues in relation to the BBV thread, that does not give posters the right to continually ignore moderator/administrator instruction or be abusive to each other or a member of the moderation/administration team. Any infractions or bans that were handed out were in relation to the above.

jesus.

anyway, are u still going to be modding the poker forum or are you going to leave it to the original mods?

Rb

Stick to the LAN parties of "new hope", Kinetic, you hadn't a clue what you were doing in the poker forum and have caused a lot of damage there.

Theresalwaysone

Rb wrote: »

Stick to the LAN parties of "new hope", Kinetic, you hadn't a clue what you were doing in the poker forum and have caused a lot of damage there.

I know I was quite vocal about this whole issue but after rethinking I dont know if he had much of a choice?

I mean, he was sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. He needed to keep some sort of order and that was always going to prove hard given the atmosphere in the forum. Anything he did was going to be scrutinised, he could have gone about it a better way I agree but he was certainly in a catch 22 situation.

I think he could have read the old bbv, made an intro message and asked for our help during the obviously difficult time but we all make mistakes.

Anyway, Kinetic Im sorry for my reactionary approach towards your moderation, I now realise how difficult it must have been.

nicnicnic

Kinetic^ wrote:

Hi nicnicnic,

You have been banned from Poker for the following duration:

1 Month(s)

for the following reason:

Abuse. Enjoy your month off.

ty, I shall be enjoying the coming month immensely

Rb

Of course he had a choice and his actions were way, way OTT and it all falls back to having no idea what he was doing.

It highlights a huge issue surrounding the growth of boards, as I pointed out in the other thread here, that the heirarchy simply cannot keep up with the growth of the sub-communities and in trying to do what's "best", may indeed cause a huge amount of damage to both the community and actual data. Examples being Kinetics OTT Nazi behaviour and it driving people off the site, Gordon locking and shifting BBV, the deletion of Nicnicnic's % thread etc.

All of those actions were taken in ignorance to both their relevance in the community/forum and ignorance to the consequences both structurally and to the community "spirit" or "feeling" or whatever the hell you want to call it.

Regardless, his attitude was unbelievable.

Laxie

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Finally glad some of you took the advice to stop posting issues relating to the moderating of the site on the poker forum and post them were they belong.

While there were currently issues in relation to the BBV thread, that does not give posters the right to continually ignore moderator/administrator instruction or be abusive to each other or a member of the moderation/administration team. Any infractions or bans that were handed out were in relation to the above.

I've no doubt you were thrown into the deep end and missing yer waders. For that I feel bad for you. However, it's been made very clear your version of 'swimming' isn't what us fish in the poker community are used to or appreciate. I don't believe all ignorance should be placed on the posters in the poker forum as they've been there with ages and have a history there. Many posted with heart and conviction, yet were punished because it didn't follow the accepted norm of the situation. Without a doubt, you were thrown in, but in all fairness...there was no need to sink the entire ship.

Theresalwaysone

Rb wrote: »

Of course he had a choice and his actions were way, way OTT and it all falls back to having no idea what he was doing.

It highlights a huge issue surrounding the growth of boards, as I pointed out in the other thread here, that the heirarchy simply cannot keep up with the growth of the sub-communities and in trying to do what's "best", may indeed cause a huge amount of damage to both the community and actual data. Examples being Kinetics OTT Nazi behaviour and it driving people off the site, Gordon locking and shifting BBV, the deletion of Nicnicnic's % thread etc.

All of those actions were taken in ignorance to both their relevance in the community/forum and ignorance to the consequences both structurally and to the community "spirit" or "feeling" or whatever the hell you want to call it.

Regardless, his attitude was unbelievable.

I agree his attitude was ridiculous and I dont want to come across like Im fighting his corner because I disgaree with a lot of what he has done.

I dont think its fair though to abuse him for his ignorance. Thats no better than giving a newbie crap over folding KK pre to a 3bet. He didnt know any better and he (kinetic) didnt have much time to familiarise himself with the forum.

He was trying to damage control, and in doing so, caused more, but I doubt it was down to anything malicious. More down to ignorance like you said.

Tar.Aldarion

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I know I was quite vocal about this whole issue but after rethinking I dont know if he had much of a choice?

I mean, he was sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. He needed to keep some sort of order and that was always going to prove hard given the atmosphere in the forum. Anything he did was going to be scrutinised, he could have gone about it a better way I agree but he was certainly in a catch 22 situation.

I think he could have read the old bbv, made an intro message and asked for our help during the obviously difficult time but we all make mistakes.

Anyway, Kinetic Im sorry for my reactionary approach towards your moderation, I now realise how difficult it must have been.

The way I see it is, the poker mods stepped down. He was the games category mod so had to step in and mod for a few days until the situation was dealt with. And to an outsider, the poker forum is a mystery, people can't even understand most of the posts and terms, let alone know how to moderate it well. So he was ignorant of how to moderate it, and is given a lot of attitude, but does know that some poker users have been acting up in recently and that is why he has to step in. So it is moderated more stringently than before and moderated like how some other forums are moderated on this site. All forums are not moderated to the same degree and a good few are moderated much stricter than what the poker forum regulars are used to. Instead of explaining which of the things he did shouldn't have been done and perhaps being civil about it, he was mocked/abused? A lot of the poker posters seem to be showing much more ignorance than he.


Now I don't know all of it, have just read a few threads and that is what it looked like.

Wreck

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The way I see it is, the poker mods stepped down. He was the games category mod so had to step in and mod for a few days until the situation was dealt with. And to an outsider, the poker forum is a mystery, people can't even understand most of the posts and terms, let alone know how to moderate it well. So he was ignorant of how to moderate it, and is given a lot of attitude, but does know that some poker users have been acting up in recently and that is why he has to step in. So it is moderated more stringently than before and moderated like how some other forums are moderated on this site. All forums are not moderated to the same degree and a good few are moderated much stricter than what the poker forum regulars are used to. Instead of explaining which of the things he did shouldn't have been done and perhaps being civil about it, he was mocked/abused? A lot of the poker posters seem to be showing much more ignorance than he.


Now I don't know all of it, have just read a few threads and that is what it looked like.

Yeah, I agree with most of this to be fair, Kinetic^ was in a really difficult position and lack of knowledge of the way the forum usually works may have led to making a few bad calls.

Theresalwaysone

Wreck wrote: »

Yeah, I agree with most of this to be fair, Kinetic^ was in a really difficult position and lack of knowledge of the way the forum usually works may have led to making a few bad calls.

This is exactly what I said though?

Wreck

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

This is exactly what I said though?

I have you on ignore.

Rb

Surely then this entire thing is sufficient evidence to say that such people shouldn't be put in the position to inflict such damage in the first place?

The Poker forum is a huge forum on boards, similar in size/traffic to AH and the other big 'uns that I can't remember right now, surely a stanger shouldn't be given the power to mess with it in any way they see fit.

Regardless, he owes the forum and its posters an apology. There were lots of better ways to deal with it, and he went down the worst route and took a "fuck you" attitude while doing so.

nicnicnic

look my head was exploding following what was going on and whether through ignorance or not, I had no doubt in my mind that Kinetic^ moding was about to put the final nail in a forum I have grown to love over the last three years.

If I offended you I apologies as it was heat of the moment.

randylonghorn

nicnicnic wrote: »

look my head was exploding following what was going on and whether through ignorance or not, I had no doubt in my mind that Kinetic^ moding was about to put the final nail in a forum I have grown to love over the last three years.

And that's fair enough tbh.

I think a lot of heads were exploding over the last few days, probably including Kinetic's.

Thread die now?!

mewso

Can I ask the admins what is the status of the 3? posters banned over all of this?

Sully

Jesus lads, give Kinetic^ a break. He isn't used to how things were done, he is modding like he would anywhere else. He doesn't know you. Your old team of mods are/were on strike and Kinetic^ is trying to handle a busy forum which he is not used to all by himself. Bare with him, advise him nicely and give him a break.

If the older mods get their pay deal (:P) sorted and the strike is called off - then all will restore back to normal. Until then, patience for the new guy who is not used to your communities way of dealing with things. Instead of showering abuse at him, try point out nicely over PM what your used to.

Rb

Sorry Sully but were you around for any of the shit he was doing?

Any of it?

Sully

Rb wrote: »

Sorry Sully but were you around for any of the shit he was doing?

Any of it?

Sorry, ill admit I wasn't. I glimpsed but felt that it was because he was not familiar with how things worked in the forum. As soon as the old mods get off strike, all will be sorted hopefully. In the mean time, hopefully he will learn from any mistakes and try get on with you guys but all I say is give him a chance and remember this is a whole different environment most folk would find hard to take on.

Rb

Sully wrote: »

Sorry, ill admit I wasn't.

Aha, thanks for that.

Anyway, your points just relate back to what I said earlier. It shouldn't be possible for someone with no knowledge of the community and its values to mess with a forum that is as big as Poker, AH, PI (?) etc in the first place and this will happen again in the future if boards continues to grow and it remains un-dealt with.

People may find it hard to "take on" these situations with little or no knowledge of the people and subjects involved, so they shouldn't have the capability to as far as I'm concerned as they'll only do more damage than good and this recently example highlights this perfectly.

I also do not think a community that has been completely fucked with should be then given the responsibility of sending polite messages to the stranger meddling with their stuff to say "You're doing it wrong". Enough people were already saying that publicly and yet he continued thinking he knew best and firing from the hip.

It's not on and it's sad to see people defending it as they are.

mewso

I'm sure the lads contacted kinetic by pm first to explain their issues, explain the importance of the wsop% thread and so on before complaining here. I mean you did do that didn't you?

Lurker1977

Hey Rb, can you suggest an alternative then cos with all the mods unavailable and with the situation the way it was, I cant many of the regs stepping in to mod while it all got sorted. He was the only one apart from the admins to be able to mod in there and while I completely disagree with how he handled it, there wasn't anybody else to do it. And for clarification, I was there and did see a lot of the deleted posts, nicnicnic's thread.

Rb

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

Sully

Rb wrote: »

Aha, thanks for that.

Anyway, your points just relate back to what I said earlier. It shouldn't be possible for someone with no knowledge of the community and its values to mess with a forum that is as big as Poker, AH, PI (?) etc in the first place and this will happen again in the future if boards continues to grow and it remains un-dealt with.

People may find it hard to "take on" these situations with little or no knowledge of the people and subjects involved, so they shouldn't have the capability to as far as I'm concerned as they'll only do more damage than good and this recently example highlights this perfectly.

I also do not think a community that has been completely fucked with should be then given the responsibility of sending polite messages to the stranger meddling with their stuff to say "You're doing it wrong". Enough people were already saying that publicly and yet he continued thinking he knew best and firing from the hip.

It's not on and it's sad to see people defending it as they are.

Well, the forum grew around the mods that are on strike. Someone had to step in and nobody has the experience to know how it works. Its obvious it wasn't going to work but it was either that or leave everyone do what they want while the lads remained on strike which would not be allowed to happen. That much is obvious to me and I have no interest in Poker or the forum.

I feel for you guys and your complaints, but I think in this Feedback thread its safe to say the mod just has no idea whats expect and had to rule as normal which goes against the grain of the forum. Dont blame him, blame the mods for being on strike (I hate to say it, as there a great bunch) and letting it go to wreck and ruin. Like holding the admins to random really.

Sully

Rb wrote: »

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

lol perhaps that's true, everyone mods differently and with the knowledge of recent behaviour in that forum - I guess he decided to go in guns firing in a community which will piss off to that type of ruling and will damage Boards and not them. He didn't know that tho.

Lurker1977

Rb wrote: »

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

I agree he handled it the worst way possible but others did not help the situation either. Tbh it seems as tho the issues have been resolved between the mods and admins so Im not sure if this thread is still needed.

I do think that considering the environment in which bans were handed out perhaps kinetic might review them in a different light and perhaps reduce/expunge them but thats up to him I suppose.

cooker3

Sully wrote: »

Well, the forum grew around the mods that are on strike. Someone had to step in and nobody has the experience to know how it works. Its obvious it wasn't going to work but it was either that or leave everyone do what they want while the lads remained on strike which would not be allowed to happen. That much is obvious to me and I have no interest in Poker or the forum.

I feel for you guys and your complaints, but I think in this Feedback thread its safe to say the mod just has no idea whats expect and had to rule as normal which goes against the grain of the forum. Dont blame him, blame the mods for being on strike (I hate to say it, as there a great bunch) and letting it go to wreck and ruin. Like holding the admins to random really.

Without going down this road too much again. The mods were perfectly right to go on strike like they did. It's the powers that be that shouldn't A) let it have spiraled out of control like it did and put someone in charge who blatantly didn't understand the general vibe of the forum.
It's no exaggeration to say a few more days like the last 2 and forum would have been near dead in future.

I do agree with RB that this whole incident does show a general disconnect between the users and mods of the poker forum and the non regulars especially mods and admins. It was very noticeable in the feedback superthread that every reg of the poker forum who posted was in agreement that something was majorly wrong while the people arguing the other side have in no way participated in the poker forum. Hopefully this is something which was discussed over the last few days. I think if Devore hadn't being an original driving force behind poker it would have been a very different outcome.