Invited to a christening

Nuttzz

Not really sure of the best place to put this...

I've been invited to a christening, its 40 miles from were I live and on a saturday morning. The childs father is a good friend but i dont buy all the church BS, he has made it known in less than subtle ways that he "expects" everyone at the church.

3 Options as I see it

1. Go and put up with it
2. Turn up at the drinkies afterwards
3. Dont go

Three things that bug me are firstly, he expects everyone to show up at the church, at his recent wedding he said beforehand anyone who doesnt turn up at the church need not bother coming to the reception
Secondly he's into the religious stuff and that fine for him, but i get the feeling its being shoved down my throat. Finally its bugging the crap out of me that I am letting something like this bug the crap out of me!

Opinions please fellow boardises

partyguinness

Prob whatever option does the least amount of damage to your friendship...does he know your views on the Church BS?

LegacyUser

I would say to go to the whole thing. I know you're not into the whole Mass thing but HE IS. It's his child's christening so you should make the effort if he's your friend. If he's not, then don't bother but this is obviously something that matters to him so just get through it. That's what friends are there for after all. When it's your child you can decide not to go to the church!!

humanji

It sounds like you're just being selfish. It's not about you at all. It's about the parents and the child. They wanted to share a special occasion with you, so the least you can do is turn up. And besides, christenings are fairly short affairs.

whippet

Nuttzz wrote: »

I've been invited to a christening,


i dont buy all the church BS,


Opinions please fellow boardises

why would you bother celebrating a christening if you don't believe in it? Or do you just want a piss up.

A Christening is a religious cermony, if you are not in to it, don't go ... but it is a bit rich wanting to use it as an excuse for drinks and a party.

Nuttzz

whippet wrote: »

why would you bother celebrating a christening if you don't believe in it? Or do you just want a piss up.

A Christening is a religious cermony, if you are not in to it, don't go ... but it is a bit rich wanting to use it as an excuse for drinks and a party.

Neither I have no interest in going, nor on going on the piss,

He knows my views on the church, i think thats why he is being so overt about it.

Finally I suppose I dont see it as a special occasion...

partyguinness

Ok, you dont see it as a special occasion. But what is the day about..You or the child/friends family? The occasion is not about you. f you feel that strongly then dont go and explain it to him

shellyboo

Yeah, OP, I think you're being pretty selfish. My birthday isn't a special occasion for anyone but me - but I still expect friends and family to celebrate it with me.

If you don't believe in all the Church stuff, what's the big deal to go and sit there for an hour to support him? The day is not about you and your beliefs, whatever they may be. Your friend is having a celebration for his new baby, and whatever form that celebration takes, you should go to support him and celebrate too imo.

LegacyUser

just go, do it for your mate. I've often had to go to things like this even though everyone knows I'm not into all the church crap, but i go for their sake. Just do what i do, go in,sit down, and tune out. Take a Homer Simpson moment where his brain says "you can stay but im outta here":D

Victor

I think go, you can sit towards the back of the crowd and not actively participate, just be there.

onemorechance

Since he places such importance on the Church part of the day, then you need to decide how much importance you place on him.

mbren

I don't mean to be harsh Op, but would it really hurt you to sit in a church for 35 minutes?? It's a big day for your friend and you should be happy that he wants you to be part of it. Just let it in 1 ear and out the other!!

I'm not one bit religious and I despise the Catholic church but sometimes in life you have to do things that you don't want to. I was actually at my nephew's christening last Saturday and I got through it, even though I could think of a million places i'd rather be!

Just get on with it and be grateful that these occasions are few and far between.

aoibhebree

Either go to the whole thing, including the church ceremony, or go to none of it.

Nuttzz wrote: »

at his recent wedding he said beforehand anyone who doesnt turn up at the church need not bother coming to the reception

I completely agree with him on that - I'd be furious if someone didn't go to my wedding but turned up for the free food after unless they had a very good reason!

The Corinthian

Nuttzz wrote: »

Neither I have no interest in going, nor on going on the piss,

He knows my views on the church, i think thats why he is being so overt about it.

Finally I suppose I don't see it as a special occasion...

You're not going for the religion, you're going for your mate. If he was having a secular naming ceremony and someone who was religious refused to go, what would you think of them? Not a lot, I suspect. How are you different?

So go; as has been suggested, your reasoning is remarkably self-centred.

Nuttzz

shellyboo wrote: »

Yeah, OP, I think you're being pretty selfish. My birthday isn't a special occasion for anyone but me - but I still expect friends and family to celebrate it with me.

I find that statement rather ironic, i'd like my family/friends to celebrate my birthday or special occasions with me, but i certainly wouldnt expect it of them....

If he was having a secular naming ceremony and someone who was religious refused to go, what would you think of them? Not a lot, I suspect.

If they didnt want to go then its up them.


Its a mute point anyway as Mrs N has the final say....

Oh and I just got another email from him this time with some bank details if I wanted to give a "gift of cash for xxxxx (his sons) future". I sh1t you not.

/edit perhaps he's reading this and taking the pi$$ out of me!!!

humanji

Well asking for cash is a bit rich, especially the times that are in it.

Nuttzz

humanji wrote: »

Well asking for cash is a bit rich, especially the times that are in it.

the wedding was the same, he sent back some gifts he received and got store credits for them instead.

Wishbone Ash

aoibhebree wrote: »

I'd be furious if someone didn't go to my wedding but turned up for the free food after ...

In fairness, most people give much more than the value of the food.

Lots of people didn't show up for the church service at our marriage. It's a bit annoying but a sign of the times I suppose.

Nuttzz wrote:

Oh and I just got another email from him this time with some bank details if I wanted to give a "gift of cash for xxxxx (his sons) future". I sh1t you not.

So much for your friend being into religion!!

CDfm

A christening is really about showing of a child to the "community". These days friends matter as much as a community and church members have church going and non going friends.

The invite is because you are important to your friend as part of his "community".

So it depends on how much you value your friendship whether or not you go. If you value it you will grin and bear it -then again if you have strong reservations which otherwise would mar the occasion make your polite excuses and give a small non monetary gift.

EDIT - the bank details are a hoot.

ManOfMystery

It's only a few hours of your life and will mean a lot to your friend - don't be so selfish. He's not exactly asking for much from you asides from your attendance, I'm surprised it even warranted a thread on here.

Xiney

The bank details bit is extremely tacky.

I'd be sorely tempted to make them a gift of Amy Vanderbilt's Complete Book of Etiquette (or whatever its equivalent is on this side of the pond)

Barracudaincork

I would go if i was you, he isnt asking much of you IMO, if he asked you to be godparent then of course you have every right to say no as you dont buy into the whole religion thing.

Re the bank account, given as your a bloke he may be thinking you (along with others) dont know what to get as a present etc so this was an open suggestion, albeit cheeky. Do what you feel, get a present, or dont, give money, or dont, thats up to you, it shouldnt be a big deal to him what you do, if this christening is all about what he claims it to be, religion.

Victor

Nuttzz wrote: »

Oh and I just got another email from him this time with some bank details if I wanted to give a "gift of cash for xxxxx (his sons) future".

Operative word "if"?

Its possible everyone got that e-mail.

Nuttzz

Victor wrote: »

Operative word "if"?

Its possible everyone got that e-mail.

I got it so did his sister, 2 bothers and another friend, its a bit of a loaded question..."if you would like to give a cash gift for ...... then his special bank details are.....sort code...account number....branch..."

When he was getting married all he told us one night (with drink) all he was interested in was "cash or vouchers"

Reading this he sounds worse than he really is....:o

I'm surprised it even warranted a thread on here.

You're probably right but it was either here or after hours and there is only so many "yore ma" posts i can read

LegacyUser

Nuttzz wrote: »

When he was getting married all he told us one night (with drink) all he was interested in was "cash or vouchers"

You have no idea how common this is and I see nothing wrong with it, at least he was honest. A lof of people getting married these days already have their house and everything in it. They don't want multiple picture frames, candle holders, toasters and other kitchen stuff. Cash (or vouchers) make sense as it can help the couple out a lot more than a present they don't need.

The bank account is a nice idea for the child. I have a post office account in my nephews name that I put money into every month and he'll get it when he's 18. There have been occassions when he was small that other family members added to it instead of buying him big presents that would be wasted. As someone else mentioned, maybe your friend was trying to help you out in the present stakes (you wouldn't have turned up without a gift for the baby would you?) and this way you know its being put aside for the baby and not going into your mates wallet.

I don't see how your friend is forcing the religious aspect down your throat. He's made it clear that he'd like you at the ceremony and not just the session afterwards. That's perfectly reasonable. You're his friend are you not? Surely you should be willing to celebrate his new arrival in the way he wishes. If it's a case that you want no part of it then simply don't go. You're coming across a little self-absorbed here. Think about what your friend wants, its a day for him and his family and he's asked that you help him celebrate.

Ickle Magoo

You should go.

I think you should view it as as you would church wedding or funeral - then it becomes an event to show affection and support to your friend while witnessing a religious ceremony he and his family are a part of, rather than viewing it as a religious ceremony you are in.

The bank a/c e-mail is a bit presumptuous on one hand but on the other it means those not sure what to get have an easy option in the present buying stakes as well as trying to ensure they are not walking around with money stuffed envelopes on the day.

If he's your friend he should get your support and the benefit of the doubt re his motives, surely?

Gregor Samsa

whippet wrote: »

why would you bother celebrating a christening if you don't believe in it? Or do you just want a piss up.

A Christening is a religious cermony, if you are not in to it, don't go ... but it is a bit rich wanting to use it as an excuse for drinks and a party.

Well, we just had a non-religious "naming party" for my daughter on Saturday, and I certainly expected my good friends and family to show up - even the religious ones who I know were disappointed that it wasn't a christening (although none of them said anything like that, and all really enjoyed the day).

I'm as strong an atheist as I've met, and I'd have no problem going to a christening (I was at one the weekend before last). It would be different if I was asked to be godfather (I'd politely decline) - but I don't see any issue with just being there to celebrate something that a good friend sees as important.

I'm certainly glad that my religious family (and some of them are very religious) weren't so close minded as to boycott our event at the weekend.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

Why dont you do what you want, and if you feel you want this person to become more of an acquaintance than a close friend then, make your excuses and dont go, maybe you feel you have grown out of this friend and dont have as much in common anymore.

it happens, if you think he is going to carry on this type of behaviour and you dont like it then maybe you should change how close you are?

Splendour

I am a Christian but if a friend of mine asked me to a Buddhist or Muslim ceremony I would still go along even though I may not agree with it.

However, I do have a problem going to Christenings of people who don't necessarily believe in it but rather go ahead with the ceremony because it's 'the done thing'. At least, you say, your friend seems to really believe in this.
I find the idea of him emailing bank account details very unsavoury though. I don't think he should put people on the spot like that. I personally would not give the child money but would purchase a SMALL token.

mehfesto2

You say 'he's into religion and all that', or something like that, but does he go weekly?

I mean does he go regualarly to the extent that the Baptism would be an important day for him (in a spiritual sense), or is it just something he's putting gravitas on because he wants to make the day 'special' for the family?

I wouldn't be arsed going to a baptism for a child that'd never set foot in a church until his/her communion. Marriages celebrate a couples love etc. etc., but a Christening is only important if it means something religious, imo.

Bottle_of_Smoke

The church isn't all bad. Get to chat to people before and after and then laugh about the 200-year old quirky priest later on.

You're an atheist/agnostic, not a member of the f*cking Orange Order! go for your mate.

I do think the bank account for his son is taking the piss so make sure you get him a physical gift that he won't be able to return.

Overheal

Xiney wrote: »

The bank details bit is extremely tacky.

I'd be sorely tempted to make them a gift of Amy Vanderbilt's Complete Book of Etiquette (or whatever its equivalent is on this side of the pond)

I think a gyro of 0.02c would go much better...

I don't mind funerals, weddings or christenings. Theyre different enough from your average mass. More ceremony, or ritual if I dare use the word. Very interesting to watch. Just because you're there doesn't mean you necessarily approve. You're just a witness. Not an endorser.
It wouldn't kill you to set aside the ideological conflict for a couple hours and rejoice in your friend's happiness.

numanuma

Nothing wrong with the bank transfer. Why give children crap they dont need when the money can be used for something useful in the future i.e. education.

As for Church "BS", show some respect even if you dont believe in it.

IvyTheTerrible

I don't think the asking for cash has anything to do with this. You can always decide not to give.

But even if you don't believe in the "Church BS", don't you want to celebrate the new arrival with your friend? And if so, what's the problem with celebrating it his way? It's his child.

I don't go to Church but I would have no problem going for people I care about. Also, I have several relations who are Protestant but had no problem coming to my first Communion and Confirmation etc. It's about the support and love more than anything.

This

If hes asked you to be there, he obvo thinks of you in high regard and wants you to share in their special day. Like would you be offended if he didnt ask you? Im sure you would feel like you missed out. So go, get through the service and enjoy the party after...... Im sure friends have done things with/for you they havnt been too happy about.

as for the bank details I agree, money towards the sons future is alot more usefull then clothes and toys the kid is gonna grow out of.

fasty

I can understand not looking forward to going to such an event, but not why you'd get your back up about someone being into religion. It's petty!

Anyway, no one's making you go. If you can't go, phone him and make your excuses, send a card or a gift and leave it at that.

He's your mate, show some respect!

shellyboo

Nuttzz wrote: »

I find that statement rather ironic, i'd like my family/friends to celebrate my birthday or special occasions with me, but i certainly wouldnt expect it of them....



If they didnt want to go then its up them.

And you wouldn't be annoyed at them for shrugging off your birthday as if it was no big deal? I find that a bit hard to believe, to be honest. I think any reasonable person would be pretty upset if a friend or family member refused to celebrate a birthday or any occasion on the basis that it wasn't special to them.

If you don't want to go, don't. But your friend has every reason to be disappointed with you for not showing up.

Malari

Nuttzz wrote: »

Three things that bug me are firstly, he expects everyone to show up at the church, at his recent wedding he said beforehand anyone who doesnt turn up at the church need not bother coming to the reception
Secondly he's into the religious stuff and that fine for him, but i get the feeling its being shoved down my throat.

I would get so annoyed if a friend had this attitude when inviting me to something. I would go, despite not enjoying it, for a friend but this stuff is designed to get people's backs up.

SarahMc

I don't understand why you view the invitation as a problem, if you were invited to the Muslim/Jewish/secular equivalent would not attend because that it is not your belief system? Extremely narrow minded not to attend imo.

LegacyUser

It's not about you. It's about him and his child. Obviously you're entitled to your opinions on the bank account thing - some people will agree, some won't. But the church thing? Honestly, what's the big deal. Go sit in a church for 40 mins. You don't have to respond to prayers if you feel that strongly. He doesn't seem to be asking you to be a godparent or anything, so no other participation is actually required of you.

Eve_Dublin

I know everyone is attacking the OP for not wanting to go to this Christening but I can see where he's coming from.

I've recently officially discommunicated myself from the Catholic Church because of all the controversey that's come out about members of the church and everything else besides (their anti homosexuality, anti-contraception, anti-abortion, anti-naming and shaming those responsible for the atrocities committed in this country in their name and paying up any kind of decent compensation etc etc etc. You get the idea.).

The idea of ever stepping inside the doors of a Catholic Church again makes me nauseous. I have a load of weddings, christenings etc to attend in the near future and a whole lifetime of weddings, funerals etc to go to of people who are only "Catholic" by name and not in practice and I'm dreading it. It all seems like a total farce. I know I'm going to get attacked here but I would equate attending any kind of ceremony in the Catholic Church as morally wrong...to me personally, it would some how inadvertently condone everything they've done in the past and the present. I know this sounds melodramatic but it's something I feel deeply vehement about.

Saying all that and I know this sounds very hypocritical but I'll go along to these ceremonies for the sake of my friends/family. I would hate the idea of ruining their day because I love them. Like someone suggested, go in, zone out and leave. Don't partake in prayers or any of that stuff...you don't have to you if you don't want to and you shouldn't feel judged for not joining in on the ceremony.

tbh

Nuttzz wrote: »

Three things that bug me are firstly, he expects everyone to show up at the church, at his recent wedding he said beforehand anyone who doesnt turn up at the church need not bother coming to the reception

how recent was the wedding? less than nine months? if so, he might not be as religious as you think

Eve_Dublin

SarahMc wrote: »

I don't understand why you view the invitation as a problem, if you were invited to the Muslim/Jewish/secular equivalent would not attend because that it is not your belief system? Extremely narrow minded not to attend imo.

Maybe he wouldn't. You don't know that. Blind faith and turning a blind eye and ignoring everything the Catholic Church has done is even more narrow-minded in my opinion.

Nevyn

You go and you be there for them as they are friends/family.
Would you balk so much if your friend was hindu and invited you to a celebration?
Would you be dismissive and rude or would you be pleased they wanted to have you there to share in thier joy with them?

My niece is getting christened soon, I am not christian any more myself but I will go.
I will do the same I have done for her sisters christening, my sisters wedding and my grandmother's funernal. I will attend, I will not take part in the prayer or responses I will sit close to the back and respectfully watch the religous rites which which mean something to people I care about and won't mention to the priest or anyone on the day that I am offically excommunicated and none of them should be talking to me .

Oh The Humanity

I totally disagree that OP should feel forced to go. His friend sounds like he is one of these people who subscribes to 'the Wonder of me' philosophy that seems rampant these days.

In the old days a Christening was a small family occasion. That way people who were interested/had to be there were the only ones required to go.

Now Christenings are getting turned into day long festivals that are starting to well get on my wick with their frequency. Also this attitude of 'you are selfish' if you dont go to some friend or aquantances babies Christening is just not going to hold up in the long run. As every friend and aquantance has 2 or 3 kids, add up the commitment that is going to require from me going forward for the next few years......

AT WEEKENDS!!!

The only time I get off!!! To shop/do housework/rest/socialise doing things I want to do!

So I've made it a personal policy I only go to family Christenings and I dont give a sh1t who thinks Im selfish.

OP you friend is an idiot arranging it on a SATURDAY MORNING !!!!

Its the height of vanity to assume your friends are interested in your kid that they have to root themselves out of the nest on a weekend the only time they might get to themselves to sit in a church listening to a ceremony they wouldn't even bother doing for themselves, never mind a baby who hasn't a clue whats going on.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, OP dont bow down to this sort of stupid social pressure 'oh you'd be there for your friend if you were a real friend' and all that rubbish.

This is just another example of the creeping industry of social obligation that goes on now. Its pointless, meaningless, vain and ridiculous.

Dont go, if he cuts you off, added bonus. He sounds like a tool.

Splendour

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Now Christenings are getting turned into day long festivals that are starting to well get on my wick with their frequency. Also this attitude of 'you are selfish' if you dont go to some friend or aquantances babies Christening is just not going to hold up in the long run. As every friend and aquantance has 2 or 3 kids, add up the commitment that is going to require from me going forward for the next few years......

I agree with OH The Humanity with regards to how Christenings have changed. Most of the time it's an excuse for a p**s up. Of all the family/friend events, Christenings are the ones I abhor most of all. The hypocrisy drives me crazy! However, I bite my tongue and go along as it is not about me and my feelings.
I was baptised myself a couple of years back and even though my family didn't agree with me, they attended. Had they not attended though, I would not have been in the least offended.

Eve_Dublin

Thaedydal wrote: »

You go and you be there for them as they are friends/family.
Would you balk so much if your friend was hindu and invited you to a celebration?
Would you be dismissive and rude or would you be pleased they wanted to have you there to share in thier joy with them?

My niece is getting christened soon, I am not christian any more myself but I will go.
I will do the same I have done for her sisters christening, my sisters wedding and my grandmother's funernal. I will attend, I will not take part in the prayer or responses I will sit close to the back and respectfully watch the religious rites which which mean something to people I care about and won't mention to the priest or anyone on the day that I am offically excommunicated and none of them should be talking to me .

I agree with 75% of what your saying but the first bit doesn't sit right with me.

People in this country are still insisting on having a church wedding, christening etc just because it's what you do. To go against the grain is insult your Great Auntie Mary twice removed who is, in fact, dead and would turn in her grave if she knew you decided to have a civil wedding, baptism (or the athiest equivalent) and this is all according to your Uncle Tom who's voted Fianna Fail for the last 50 years and will continue to do so because that's what he's always done, thank you very much.

I believe it reflects an existing, deep-seated fear of the Catholic Church that still exists in this culture in spite of what's come to light about this particular church recently. We should be making a stand NOT pretending nothing happened...this is what got is here in the first place.

Personally I find the whole christening ceremony beyond bizarre and frankly, wrong. The fact that it's still an unquestioned, respected and expected ritual in our culture reflects our "turn a blind eye" mentality. What's joyous about forcing a religion upon a child that still can't do a poo on it's own never mind decide what religion it chooses to belong to or if it even believes in a God? The joyous part of a christening is the session afterwards...a celebration (Irish style) of life! If this child does decide to discommunicate themselves officially from the church, they're going to find themselves having to justify leaving something they never volunteered to be part of in the first place (like myself)...where's the sense in that??

I think most of my friends would understand if I explained to them that I'm delighted they've brought life to the world or they're proclaiming their undying love publicly to all and sundry but that I don't see where the Catholic Church, who condemns a lot of what these so-called "Catholics" got up to previous to this day, fits into the equation (I'm presuming they've all been using contraception and having sex before marriage up to now and might even have had impure thoughts about each other on weekends apart..and they might even have a gay cousin, God forbid!) and that I'll see them at the session afterwards.

In an ideal world this is what I would do but unfortunately not all my friends and family see things as I do and in reality, things might not change 'till the next generation when this unwavering, myopic mindset shifts at last.

Malari

I agree with Eve. For very close friends or family they probably know your religious views so go, try to find an accomplice who you can have a laugh with about the nonsense that's going on up on the stage.

If this "friend" is already assuming the worst in some friends by predicting their reluctance to go to the church, then I would live up to his expectations, make your excuses and not go.

If you need to issue invites with the dictate that you expect people to go to the church, it's the same as asking people to a dinner party and warning them not to complain about the food. Have a bit of respect for your guests if you want them to repsect your event.

lala stone

Nuttzz wrote: »

Neither I have no interest in going, nor on going on the piss,

He knows my views on the church, i think thats why he is being so overt about it.

Finally I suppose I dont see it as a special occasion...

he's hardly shoving it down your throat... he invited you to what he sees as a really special day in his and his baby's life...

Oh The Humanity

Yeh, but its not really special to anyone except the parents and direct family.

He sounds like an zealous first time parent, you sometimes get this type of big hullaballoo over a first kid where every tooth, step and word is reported to a huge army of friends and aquaintances as though it was momenmtous news, it is....to the parents!

Christenings are for family and people who expect the same enthusiasm of attendance as to their wedding and issue edicts about enforced attendance are up themselves.

Give them another two kids and wait until all the friends start reproducing, its the sheer volume of kids produced by a group of friends over 15 or 20 years, no one can be expected to keep up with that kind of commitment.

Weddings and funerals are 'must attends' in my opinion, even some funerals may be given a miss if not appropriate to go, in cases of sucicide for example where the family wants privacy.

OP your friend is show zero social nous, to try to 'shame' people into attending his kids Christening is totally unreasonable, the request for cash/vouchers is vulgar.

Nuttzz

Thanks for all the replies. I didnt think i'd even get one!

shellyboo wrote: »

And you wouldn't be annoyed at them for shrugging off your birthday as if it was no big deal? I find that a bit hard to believe, to be honest. I think any reasonable person would be pretty upset if a friend or family member refused to celebrate a birthday or any occasion on the basis that it wasn't special to them.

I am of an age now where I dont really want to be reminded that I am getting older, in my head I'm still 21 but sadly the shell shows a much different picture. So birthdays dont really interest me anymore, I might have got in a fussy about in my teens & 20's and maybe even early 30's but not now....in the words of grandpa simpson "it will happen to you"

Would you balk so much if your friend was hindu and invited you to a celebration?

If i was invited in the same manner then the nature of the religion is of no consequence really, its more the "i expect you to be there on time" and later there "show me the money" email, oddly enough other people invited havent received that email...

I don't understand why you view the invitation as a problem, if you were invited to the Muslim/Jewish/secular equivalent would not attend because that it is not your belief system? Extremely narrow minded not to attend imo.

As above really

Honestly, what's the big deal. Go sit in a church for 40 mins.

If it was nearby and not a 80 mile round trip its not a bit deal but its a saturday morning, even 2pm would be better

You don't have to respond to prayers if you feel that strongly

I wouldnt know the answers to them to be honest anymore.

as for the bank details I agree, money towards the sons future is alot more usefull then clothes and toys the kid is gonna grow out of.

Sure, but how about if you breed them you feed them, dont expect contributions from others?


I do have a slight confession to make here, for his wedding gift I had found an old picture of him taken with his soccer hero John Aldridge, I had arranged with a friend in Liverpool to get it signed by Aldridge and have it framed, I felt that it would be something special and that he would always look at it was a present that he received from me for his wedding, something that would last longer and mean more than 200 quid stuck in a card. As I was organising this he told us that all he wanted was cash or vouchers and didnt really want anything else, we had a few pints on us, but I did get this confirmed without booze at a later stage. Its probably affecting my outlook on this, but I'll get on with it....

Again Thanks all for the input