Recording a band rehearsal

mada999

Hi there,

I'm in a four piece rock/indie band at the moment and we are looking to record a few of our tunes. We are a four piece, vox+guitar, guitar, bass, drums.

to be honest it might be quicker if we record our rehearsal live in our rehearsal room..

I'm just wondering what equipment would i need and how I would record it.

Equipment we have :

Toneport UX8 (it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs)
2 guitar amps
1 bass amp
drums
mics
PA/desk
PC with reaper.

i was thinking of the logistics of this and i reckon it'll be tough enough...

1. could we plug our instruments straight into the UX8 and could we then send the otuputs to the monitors so we could hear just like a regular rehearsal and record it with reaper @ the same time?

2. could we plug our instruments straight into the UX8 and could we then send the otuputs a headphone amp thing and each listen on headphones??

3. could we mic up everyting and then plug the mic's straight into the ux8 and then output it to the monitors?

not sure of how this all will work? any comments or suggestions would be great!

Thanks in advance

mada!!

DamagedTrax

3 mics on the kit. http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

1 on each guitar amp

1 on bass amp

1 for vocals

1 backing vocals.

all straight into the toneport and then onto seperate tracks on reaper.

mada999

DamagedTrax wrote: »

3 mics on the kit. http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

1 on each guitar amp

1 on bass amp

1 for vocals

1 backing vocals.

all straight into the toneport and then onto seperate tracks on reaper.

thanks for that damagedtrax...what would be the best way to hear ourselves?

Lateralus359

Well i don't think it's a great idea first of all to record all at once. If your still going ahead with it don't waste time micing up all the amps. The noise from the drums spilling into the mics will be ass. Plus the same goes for the drums with the noise of the guitars and bass going into overheads and stuff will be hard to mix out. Then if you were to put all them mics through the monitors your just adding more noise. Also why do you want to run the guitars through the monitors anyway? Aren;t the amps enough?! What you want to do is set up some room mics. Not sure what the best way to set them up would be but maybe two sm57's pointing in at the band from two sides.
Like this:


BAND

SM57 SM57

Maybe one near the drums too.

You really should just avoid the inevitable **** sounding demo by just doing a bit of work and recording everything seperately. It'll be worth it in the end.

DamagedTrax

mada999 wrote: »

thanks for that damagedtrax...what would be the best way to hear ourselves?

you should have your monitors hooked up to reaper thru the interface outputs?

DamagedTrax

Lateralus359 wrote: »

Well i don't think it's a great idea first of all to record all at once. If your still going ahead with it don't waste time micing up all the amps. The noise from the drums spilling into the mics will be ass. Plus the same goes for the drums with the noise of the guitars and bass going into overheads and stuff will be hard to mix out. Then if you were to put all them mics through the monitors your just adding more noise. Also why do you want to run the guitars through the monitors anyway? Aren;t the amps enough?! What you want to do is set up some room mics. Not sure what the best way to set them up would be but maybe two sm57's pointing in at the band from two sides.

to be honest if they want to record themselves i think its the best way to go. they're (im assuming) not trained in engineering and probably just want to get quick recordings down for their own listening. why complicate things by going down the multi-take road? if the "demo" recordings sound good then they may make the decision to get an engineer in. and those live recordings can be a great help for a perspective engineer to get a feel for the music before a real session starts.

Lateralus359

That's true. I'm suppose i'm complicating things by advising the multi track route but they obviously want to record something decent sounding and i know you could gate all the mics and cut out noise etc but they could benifit from tracking and getting a good sound and help with the whole experince they'll get in a recording studio if they decide to go dwon that route. It's good practice. Plus it really wouldn't take that long to do it. My brother's band recorded a five song demo in one day. Just something quick cause their all a gang of lazy dicks and it's only for a cover band.

PaulBrewer

mada999 wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm in a four piece rock/indie band at the moment and we are looking to record a few of our tunes. We are a four piece, vox+guitar, guitar, bass, drums.

to be honest it might be quicker if we record our rehearsal live in our rehearsal room..

I'm just wondering what equipment would i need and how I would record it.

Equipment we have :

Toneport UX8 (it has 8 inputs and 8 outputs)
2 guitar amps
1 bass amp
drums
mics
PA/desk
PC with reaper.

i was thinking of the logistics of this and i reckon it'll be tough enough...

1. could we plug our instruments straight into the UX8 and could we then send the otuputs to the monitors so we could hear just like a regular rehearsal and record it with reaper @ the same time?

2. could we plug our instruments straight into the UX8 and could we then send the otuputs a headphone amp thing and each listen on headphones??

3. could we mic up everyting and then plug the mic's straight into the ux8 and then output it to the monitors?

not sure of how this all will work? any comments or suggestions would be great!

Thanks in advance

mada!!

How complex do you want to make it ?

What will these recordings be used for ?

mada999

hi folks,

Thanks for the replies. We are thinking of recording live for a few reasons.

1. to hear what we sound like live
2. to critique our songs. To see if they need tweaking.
3. to put the songs on myspace or CD so that we can give to pubs for a few gigs.

4. don’t know how to record the tracks – track by track and i reckon it would be VERY time consuming


As damaged trax said, we could record live this time and then give the copy to an engineer as a basis for a proper recording session in a studio.

PaulBrewer

Right so - well you could do 1 and 2 by setting up a mic or two in the middle of rehearsal .

When I have my producer's hat on I prefer to hear a song as raw and basic as possible, as I imagine most producers do, in order to let the imagination 'fill in the blanks' .

Also if a song digs it's way out of a 'bad' recording it's a good song.

Depending on how good you are you may well get something that does represent how the band sounds that could conceivably be used for 3.


As previous posts have suggested there are many ways to skin the proverbial rock cat. However I do like to separate experimenting with recording with actual recording as I've found the technical processes can suffocate the musical ones while experimenting.

So I guess I'd suggest muck about for a few days and see how you get on !

mada999

thanks for that Paul...yeah we are gonna try micing up the room and experimenting..... hopefully we can get something that sounds good down.

PaulBrewer

mada999 wrote: »

thanks for that Paul...yeah we are gonna try micing up the room and experimenting..... hopefully we can get something that sounds good down.

Best of Luck ! Don't forget to post it here so we can rip it to shreds , yea?

mada999

haha will do..definitely !

recorded some tunes on the ux-2 and it sounds ok i think....
www.myspace.com/testmusic101 - but that was just guitar and vocals its gonna be a whole different ball game with the whole band!

Lateralus359

Well said Paul. Also if you do decide to go down the multitracking route and need any advice on recording in general mada999 just leave a comment here and i'll see if i can help you out. Plus i'm sure so will anyone else here!

mada999

cool thanks and thanks for everyone's input so far!

re: multi track recording..

how hard is it to do this? I'm guessing it would take a lot of time to get right.

which instruments do you start with - drums > bass, guitar, lead guitar, vocals

you'd have to already recorded a guide rhythm guitar track/vocals before the drummer starts laying down his track? the guide track would then have to be spot on?

RE: live recording

what mic's would be best to just have recording the room

Lateralus359

It does take time yes but it's not that hard. I start with drums. Check up on the internet for micing set ups but again don't pick the most complicated one! After it's miced up record a track of guitars(and bas or vocals if the drummer wants) to a click track or with the drummer. Then get the drummer to record with this scratch track playing in his headphones.
There is a thing you can do called triggering a drum kit. It pretty much means you can replace all the kick drums and snares with professionally recorded ones but this is the mixing engineer's job. If you want advice on this after you record leave a message here and i'll sort you out.
The it's the bass player's turn. The option i like to go for here is to DI up the bass through that ux8 of yours and if you have a guiatar sim on reaper use that.If not, micing up a bass amp isn't that hard it's just that if it's a bad bass amp it's obviously not gonna sound as good as the amp sim!Use the same mic your going to use for your kick drum to record with. You know something like this.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Luke/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]http://www.shure.com/proaudio/products/wiredmicrophones/us_pro_pg52-xlr_content
Guitars after that then. Micing options are varied and they easiest one to do is just on sm57 pointed directly at the cone of the speaker about an inch or two away from it.You can easily go with more mics but since it's only a demo don't go crazy with loads of mics! There is also the option of DIing the guitar amps. The dude who recorded my bro's band done this. He sent the amps to his pro tools interface and just recorded them that way. No hassle with mics! Does sound a bit sterile though but for someone like yourselves this is a really quick and handy option.
As for vocals,depending on your sound the room makes a big difference.Some like big reverb sounding rooms some don't. I don't really. If you want a good sound record in a small room with as few objects as possible in it. Set up a microphone mix for the singer and put some reverb on his voice. Something with a long enough reverb(not too long) so the singer can hear a good version of his voice.Through a compressor on their too to sort out the varying levels on his or her voice. Record through a condenser,set up a pop shield and record a lot of takes of his or her voice. Take a while for the voice to warm up and the more takes you get the easier it'll be to pick the best sounding track. You can mix and match the best ones.
Read this for advice on vocals. It's pretty basic.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_setup_a_vocal_session.htm

Also record in sections. Like record a verse and then a chorus because it'll be less hassle and take less time. If you make a mistake you won't have to record the whole song again!

This is just a quick outline but if you want more details i can easily go into it.Just leave your questions here. I know lots about micing up drums and guitars. But the above will be enough to get you started recording a simple demo that with a bit of mixing will sound suprisingly good!

I'm not going to lie to you. It will take time but trust me it's a great experince and plus it will really tighten up your playing.

Good Luck!:)

Lateralus359

Oh and i just listened to your songs. Great voice! I'm more into metal but you've got the perfect voice for your style of music!

mada999

Lateralus359 wrote: »

It does take time yes but it's not that hard. I start with drums. Check up on the internet for micing set ups but again don't pick the most complicated one! After it's miced up record a track of guitars(and bas or vocals if the drummer wants) to a click track or with the drummer. Then get the drummer to record with this scratch track playing in his headphones.
There is a thing you can do called triggering a drum kit. It pretty much means you can replace all the kick drums and snares with professionally recorded ones but this is the mixing engineer's job. If you want advice on this after you record leave a message here and i'll sort you out.
The it's the bass player's turn. The option i like to go for here is to DI up the bass through that ux8 of yours and if you have a guiatar sim on reaper use that.If not, micing up a bass amp isn't that hard it's just that if it's a bad bass amp it's obviously not gonna sound as good as the amp sim!Use the same mic your going to use for your kick drum to record with. You know something like this.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Luke/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]http://www.shure.com/proaudio/products/wiredmicrophones/us_pro_pg52-xlr_content
Guitars after that then. Micing options are varied and they easiest one to do is just on sm57 pointed directly at the cone of the speaker about an inch or two away from it.You can easily go with more mics but since it's only a demo don't go crazy with loads of mics! There is also the option of DIing the guitar amps. The dude who recorded my bro's band done this. He sent the amps to his pro tools interface and just recorded them that way. No hassle with mics! Does sound a bit sterile though but for someone like yourselves this is a really quick and handy option.
As for vocals,depending on your sound the room makes a big difference.Some like big reverb sounding rooms some don't. I don't really. If you want a good sound record in a small room with as few objects as possible in it. Set up a microphone mix for the singer and put some reverb on his voice. Something with a long enough reverb(not too long) so the singer can hear a good version of his voice.Through a compressor on their too to sort out the varying levels on his or her voice. Record through a condenser,set up a pop shield and record a lot of takes of his or her voice. Take a while for the voice to warm up and the more takes you get the easier it'll be to pick the best sounding track. You can mix and match the best ones.
Read this for advice on vocals. It's pretty basic.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_setup_a_vocal_session.htm

Also record in sections. Like record a verse and then a chorus because it'll be less hassle and take less time. If you make a mistake you won't have to record the whole song again!

This is just a quick outline but if you want more details i can easily go into it.Just leave your questions here. I know lots about micing up drums and guitars. But the above will be enough to get you started recording a simple demo that with a bit of mixing will sound suprisingly good!

I'm not going to lie to you. It will take time but trust me it's a great experince and plus it will really tighten up your playing.

Good Luck!:)

thanks for that mate you've been very helpful!!!

studiorat

That's probably the worst way to record a band I can think of. Where the hell does this record the drums on their own business come in? I can't believe the amount of guys coming out of the colleges who think this is the way you record music.

Who the fcuk is telling people you record to multitrack like this?

It's very simple, you set everybody up in the room, put mics on the shiit record it and have a listen, adjust what you need to and off you go again...

People going around thinking spill is the end or the world or something wtf? If you have a bit of spill so what. Most of the time a little spill helps it sound better. If the spill is damaging the sound change the phase or switch or move the mic.

Look, I've worked on some really serious recordings for huge artists and have seen situations where the singer was listening through wedges and if he put his hand out he could have grabbed the cymbals ffs. No one had a problem and it sounded AMAZING!!! Another well known vocalist does ALL his vocals in the control room with the 3kW of studio monitors up full while the none of the band wear head phones all using wedges in the studio.

It's a band so record it as a band. If someone makes a mistake edit it in from another take or drop the whole band in. Or just go back and get a decent take on the bit with the mistake...

If everybody can play the songs and I mean play the songs not just muddle through without a mistake, all you need is a decent monitor mix so you can hear the other players and off you go.

Laterlaus? Can you please enlighten me as to why you should record in a small room with "not much stuff in it" surely a bit of diffusion would be a good thing?

Lateralus359

No need to spit the dummy dick.

Name one good band who records an album with just room mics. That's easily the most retarded thing i've ever read. And the whole recording in a dead room is because i'm assuming the don't have a proper recording room. Add reverb in after with a vst to get a better reverb sound than using the bad room.
I really can't believe how stupid you are!
The format i've laid out is the standard way to record an album or demo. Check the internet,ask a friend or read a book. They way i've outlined is correct and is recognised as the best way to record a band. And to make it clear just in case you might have misunderstood what i wrote, this is multitracking. They don't record all at the same time. One at a time so you can get a clean good sound. It's not fckuing rocket science.

studiorat

Lateralus359 wrote: »

No need to spit the dummy dick.

Ask me Hoop!

Lateralus359 wrote: »

Name one good band who records an album with just room mics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trinity_Session

I didn't say just room mic's. But since you brought it up you should have a listen to Steve Earl or the Cowboy Junkies. Of course they only used one mic. House of Love did some stuff with just distant mics, they were particularly interested in using the talkback mics in the walls actually.

Lateralus359 wrote: »

Add reverb in after with a vst to get a better reverb sound than using the bad room.

Try both. There's plenty of ways to work around a room sound.

Lateralus359 wrote: »

I really can't believe how stupid you are!
The format i've laid out is the standard way to record an album or demo. Check the internet,ask a friend or read a book. They way i've outlined is correct and is recognised as the best way to record a band.

Absolute Pants... You should actually try recording one for your self sonny. I have been making records and helping to make records since before the internet existed.

So who told you this was the recognised and correct way to record a band?

Lateralus359 wrote: »

And to make it clear just in case you might have misunderstood what i wrote, this is multitracking. They don't record all at the same time. One at a time so you can get a clean good sound. It's not fckuing rocket science.

That statement above is so off the beam it's not even funny. Really, who is telling you this? The one at a time thing is only reserved for bands who can't play together. With the odd exception and I mean really odd exception, once in a blue moon. Probably done it once in what's been nearly 20 years at this stage...

As much as I hate name dropping I think this may be of interest. I remember having to sync up two Otari MTR-100's to record Van Morrison and his full band onto 48 track, that's 24 tracks on each machine. 23 if you take the timecode tracks into account. That was 2 drummers, two bass players, live piano, hammond organ, acoustic guitar and two electric guitars, backing vocal and 5 piece brass section. The man himself had vocals, guitar, sax and harmonica and was likely to pick up any of the above with out mentioning it to the production staff. We had a camera on him specifically for the purpose.

Anyway, the trick is you record all this stuff to multi track so you can fix any mistakes, not that there were too many and actually mix the thing afterwards.

DamagedTrax

IMO both are perfectly valid methods. when i recorded with sack we did it studiorats way with a few overdubs.. but then ive been playing in sessions and seen plenty that are recorded instrument by instrument after an initial scratch track is done.

studiorat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

IMO both are perfectly valid methods. when i recorded with sack we did it studiorats way with a few overdubs.. but then ive been playing in sessions and seen plenty that are recorded instrument by instrument after an initial scratch track is done.

I know which one was better...

What's the point in having a band in the first place if the bloody record is done like that?

Fine if it's a solo artist on a budget which I reckon those recordings you're talking about are. But bands play together that's their very nature, why the hell are you going to strip it down to its elements and destroy the internal dynamics? Because they can't play together properly in the first place of course. Or pure laziness or ineptitude on the engineers behalf.

DamagedTrax

studiorat wrote: »

I know which one was better...

What's the point in having a band in the first place if the bloody record is done like that?

Fine if it's a solo artist on a budget which I reckon those recordings you're talking about are. But bands play together that's their very nature, why the hell are you going to strip it down to its elements and destroy the internal dynamics? Because they can't play together properly in the first place of course. Or pure laziness or ineptitude on the engineers behalf.

or just a differant way of doing things. you have yours, others have theirs. i personally enjoy both ways and see them both just as valid. i dont see why one way is anymore right than another.

in certain circumstances i love having spill on everything, doesnt have to be obvious but it can add to the atmosphere and as you said studiorat, it is a band playing together at the same time which is always a good thing and it can be easy enough to control the spill with decent gobos.

but on the other hand, certain styles just suit a more clean ultra seperated sound. i peronally like clean synth tracks with no spill so i do them seperate. having the drums and bass recorded together is always nice but when you want to do multi overdubs with guitars it sometimes feels clearer to me if i treat the guitars as seperate recordings etc etc.

DamagedTrax

studiorat wrote: »

Fine if it's a solo artist on a budget which I reckon those recordings you're talking about are.

nope, full bands.

theres a respected engineer posting on here that does things that way.

studiorat

All well and good if you are just trying to get a take down with out any mistakes. But if you are looking for a take that "lights up", that really feels good you need people playing together, otherwise it's next to impossible to know if the rhythm section is working together.

It's nothing to do with spill or clean tracks. You can get a band to do five different takes, each with a click at the same tempo and each take will feel different. In terms of where the groove is on the click and in terms of dynamics between the players.

By sticking down a scratch track you are limiting the player to what's already on tape and in the case of drums first you are then removing that guide and replacing it again, so you are moving the goalposts so to speak.

It's a small thing but it's at the very heart of the performance.

PaulBrewer

I'm with the Rat all the way -

However it's a rare day one gets 2 guys in a band who play together , don't mind 4 or more !

DamagedTrax

studiorat wrote: »

All well and good if you are just trying to get a take down with out any mistakes. But if you are looking for a take that "lights up", that really feels good you need people playing together, otherwise it's next to impossible to know if the rhythm section is working together.

It's nothing to do with spill or clean tracks. You can get a band to do five different takes, each with a click at the same tempo and each take will feel different. In terms of where the groove is on the click and in terms of dynamics between the players.

By sticking down a scratch track you are limiting the player to what's already on tape and in the case of drums first you are then removing that guide and replacing it again, so you are moving the goalposts so to speak.

It's a small thing but it's at the very heart of the performance.

i really cant see why you're bothering to argue this one out rat. the guy you're argueing with obviously has his own methods and so do you. screaming it from the top of the trees doesnt make you anymore right than him.

who gives a damn what you think anyway? im 100% sure no working engineer is gonna give a crap what i think either.. or what lateralus thinks. fact of the matter is that people do things in a way that (hopefully) gets them results.

as an example, eric rosse (tori amos) records everything seperate. 1 quick guide track and then everything else is re-recorded and overdubbed, are we to argue that his way is wrong?

studiorat

DamagedTrax wrote: »

who gives a damn what you think anyway? im 100% sure no working engineer is gonna give a crap what i think either.. or what lateralus thinks. fact of the matter is that people do things in a way that (hopefully) gets them results.

Lots of people give a damn what I think, that's why they hire me. What I take exception is the likes of Lateralus giving mis-information to people who don't know any better.

If you want a good sound record in a small room with as few objects as possible in it.

I mean WFT? One way to pick up comb filtering IMO. And what the hell does as few objects as possible in it mean?

Tori Amos' tracks are based around a piano. Which she plays while singing. The record in question was recorded in a church so obviously tracking together would have been difficult. Very different from a band, not to mention it took years to complete. Also worthwhile noting that Rosse uses an engineer when he does track piano bass and drum sessions. I seriously doubt the gigs he did with Chris Isacc were layered.

woodsdenis

Guys, come on this was a discussion about recording a rehearsal.

There is one thing I am absolutely positive about in the recording business is

There are no rules.:D

Its a pointless discussion really as you can give numerous examples of both ways. Frankie goes to Hollywood v The Cowboy Junkies for example.
Which is better, the one that works.

Either way Lateralus359 has a point of view, which maybe was gathered from the Internet rather than by experience, I don't know. Correct him absolutely on his practical/technical errors, not his opinions.

studiorat

Tell you the truth Dennis, it's an issue. You wouldn't imagine the amount of bands around who actually think the only way to record a band is drums first blah, blah, blah. Really, the incredulity in their voices when you describe how the recording session will go astounds me every time... "Really?" they say, "You can do that?". And are delighted by the news every time.

Time and time again it happens. They aren't even given the opportunity, the seem to be just wheeled in and told this is how it's done. I don't know whether it's laziness or inexperience on the part of who is doing the recordings.

Now the we all know the stories of dubbing on bass drum, high hat, etc. But unless there is all the time in the world the plan would be to get the band set up and backing tracks down. The idea is to record music not grow a beard.

PaulBrewer

studiorat wrote: »

You wouldn't imagine the amount of bands around who actually think the only way to record a band is drums first blah, blah, blah.

And it used be the other way !

woodsdenis

studiorat wrote: »

The idea is to record music not grow a beard.

+1

Look I agree with you all. I think your point is correct, if everyone can play together then absolutely do it that way. We are all victim to the way we were taught/learned how to do it. I have been around long enough to have experienced all different methods of recording and can see the merits/pitfalls of each of them by experience.

To be honest, I dont work with bands a lot anymore, but anyone who is serious about recording should be informed about all the different ways of doing it, rather than being a beta test for the engineer/producer to improve their Protools chops.

Every gig is different as you know, if I was to give a very general suggestion to a band who wanted to record

1. Rehearse,Rehearse,Rehearse

2. Try playing all together. use your DAW to edit together different multitrack takes. Usually works great. At the very least you should get a good drum track because the drummer is playing with everyone.

3. If above doesn't work, get out Beat Detective/Track separately etc. There
is no such thing as just fixing on thing IMHO. Once you start fixing timing/tuning every thing stars to get corrected:eek:

My 2 cents

PaulBrewer

woodsdenis wrote: »

3. If above doesn't work, get out Beat Detective/Track separately etc. There
is no such thing as just fixing on thing IMHO. Once you start fixing timing/tuning every thing starts to get corrected:eek:

That's the truth !

Been there done that, not particularly interested in going there again unless I REALLY have to ...

mada999

Thanks for all your replies lads...some good debating points there...

i think since i have the ux-8 we may as well give try and record the band playin live in our rehearsal room... we'll see what the sound is live and then we might give the multi-tracking ago...

so if we are going to record the band live... would it be ok to place some mics on the drums and then a couple of mics placed around the room to record everything else?

thanks

DamagedTrax

mada999 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies lads...some good debating points there...

i think since i have the ux-8 we may as well give try and record the band playin live in our rehearsal room... we'll see what the sound is live and then we might give the multi-tracking ago...

so if we are going to record the band live... would it be ok to place some mics on the drums and then a couple of mics placed around the room to record everything else?

thanks

have a look at the link i posted earlier about the 3 mic technique for drums. that will leave you with enough mics for everything else to be mic'd seperatly.

mada999

DamagedTrax wrote: »

have a look at the link i posted earlier about the 3 mic technique for drums. that will leave you with enough mics for everything else to be mic'd seperatly.

will do definitely!!

woodsdenis

DamagedTrax wrote: »

have a look at the link i posted earlier about the 3 mic technique for drums. that will leave you with enough mics for everything else to be mic'd seperatly.

This is a really cool and effective way of micing drums even if you have loads of mics.

SeanHurley

I love recording the whole band together as it does bring about a magic that can't be recreated with the layer as you go technique.

Rat have you any advice on how you would do this if you were working in a small enough room (too small to have a full band banging away).

I mainly try to get the drummer and the bass player down together because I feel this is the back-bone of the groove. During tracking I patch the guitars thru Pods and have the singer with a hand held in the control room. Guitars and vocals are overdubbed later once the best drum/bass track has ben comped.

studiorat

Ok recording in a rehreasal room. The secret to a good recording session is planning. So in the interest of cooperation here's a few ideas, you can use different elements from different techniques so be flexible and don't limit yourself just because of tech issues. Plan it out carefully and make sure everybody is comfortable and happy and can hear everything when they are playing.

Simplest way for demos just for your selves is get a pair of SM-58' and start moving them around the room and adjusting the levels of the amps and how loud you are playing. In fact working on playing the song a little softer than normal might be a good for the concentration. But I digress...

If you want something a little better, for mates and stuff, you could start getting into using more microphones and tracks. If I had to do it, for say a four piece. First thing I'd do is get some long leads and start looking for places to hide those amps! I'd start considering ways of getting the Bass amp out of the room. As a Bass guitar owner myself, I reckon the basser will have the least to do during the session so he can work the machines!!! So long audio cables and mains extension leads. I'd even consider Di'ing the Bass. Which means you'll need four sets of headphones. You'll have to loose the PA or at least set the speakers up on the floor facing the people who need to hear them. Get four of the same types of cans or maybe 3 with something a bit more enclosed for the Drummer. And figure out a way of getting two mixes if possible. One for Drums and bass and one for the rest.

Now, empty out the room of all the instruments and all the junk you won't need for the session, give the place a clean and start looking for the best sounding place to set up the kit in the room. Move the kik drum and snare around the room and have a careful listen to how it sounds in the room. Ask opinions of the drummer and find some where where the bass sounds full but tight. No rumble in the room as the sound is dying out that kind of thing. As an aside, if you do have to use the bass amp in the room, it might be interesting to place the bass amp infront of the kick drum at least it spill it will be in the centre. Use four mics for the drums, I won't get into techniques here, but set up a good sound at this stage. Tune the kit properly and do a few test recordings. A good heavy duvet might be useful here depending on the kit and the room it's sometimes useful to throw over the kick drum or hang near the hat and snare or behind the drummer.
Run the drummers headphones and make sure she can hear the clicktrack and a little bit of kick drum and snare.

Now set up the bass. If you do use it in the room work with it until you are happy with the balance between the kit and bass. You're looking for the bass to sound as dry as possible in the room again no rumble etc. I'll suggest DI'ing the bass and running it through an amp later...

Again make sure the bass headphones are working and everybody can hear the click etc.

Now start considering ways of recording the guitar amps. Another aside here and a pet hate, make sure you have enough microphone stands. Point the microphones at the gear. Don't hang microphones over stuff, point the things at the speakers and drums etc. That's how they are meant to work, do it properly. Again if you can use a long cable runs and run the amp to another room or the hall way. Using the amps in the room you'll have to be careful again of the level, dial in the sound you need. And look for a place to put it where it doesn't sound bad on on the kit mics and where you can hear it properly. Sit it on a chair and put the guitarist sitting beside it, that will make sure it isn't too loud!!! Having the amps at ear level will help people hear them better anyway.

Now, that's enough of my idle ****e to be getting along with for the moment. I'll might come back and add more later, gotta do other things....

mada999

Thanks for taking the time to write that studio rat!!!!!!

frobisher

Deep breaths lads. It's not life and death and we have a charter that requests civility between posters. Let's be little fonzies.

Lateralus359: I have to disagree with your techniques as guideline to a rough recording. I think what studiorat has siggested is much better for this scenario to be honest. But there are many ways to skin a cat so YYMV.

And to be pedantic, whether you record everything together or one after the other it's still multi-track recording.

henessjon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Also if a song digs it's way out of a 'bad' recording it's a good song.

!

gotta love that song 1st then worry about recording quality

mada999

folks following on from this...

if i need to hire mics - do you know any good places to rent them...i'm based in Dundalk but i'll prob have to go to dub to rent them ?

PaulBrewer

http://www.sensiblemusic.ie/

studiorat

mada999 wrote: »

folks following on from this...

if i need to hire mics - do you know any good places to rent them...i'm based in Dundalk but i'll prob have to go to dub to rent them ?

try with you have to hand or can borrow. you can only really get proper recording stuff up in Dublin, those culchies no nothing about that recording...

mada999

hey folks...I'm back...

we went and tried to make a recording at the end of july.., but the drummer couldnt make it... we hadn't practised in about a month and just recorded the three of us to get used to the toneport ux-8.. not even gonna embarrass myself by putting up the recording! although we were not in the big room that we hoped to be...


have to say this recording lark is harder than i thought !

DamagedTrax

mada999 wrote: »

have to say this recording lark is harder than i thought !

no offence meant.. but did you really think it was easy? why do you think we spend so many hours on here arguing about it?

mada999

DamagedTrax wrote: »

no offence meant.. but did you really think it was easy? why do you think we spend so many hours on here arguing about it?

lol.. no i never once thought it would be easy ! big respect goes out to you lads who make it an art !! i will have to tap into all endless knowledge some more!! ..

i think the way to go as someone already said is to record our 'live' ideas of the songs and structures and then go to a studio and give the engineer/producer our 'rough' recordings and let them come up with their own ideas of tweaking and making them lot better!!

iamhunted

we normally just cheat and use a dd-55 rather than a live kit. the dd-55 is a cheap drummer playable yamaha but it means we can run everything in as seperate tracks for recording and then run it out through a headphone amp. Doesnt help the drummer rehearse though as its a different story playing a real kit but its a great way to get half decent demos organised. We did chart a single with a recording done that way so technically you could do finished recordings but its a lot of work.

mada999

well folks we tried again there a couple of weeks ago..

the four of us this time... although we hadn't played the songs as band in 3 months. There are some timing issues but we are going to practise the songs and then record again..

2 electrics and 1 bass amp line out plugged into the Toneport ux-8
drum mics on drums - plugged into the toneport


== used Reaper


recorded the music only.... didn't record vocals till later.

Lead guitar was over dubbed later too.


2 guitars have effects from Podfarm
vox - effects from reaper (stereo and volume)

not great at hearing the levels so it probably could be lot better if left to someone who knew what they were doing

let me know what you think?

http://www.box.net/shared/dvr210l373