How do we put a stop to society's obsession with weight?

Eve_Dublin

Right, I personally have had it up to HERE with women and society's obsession with weight. Just back from a tea break with some girls I work with and both girls were talking about some fad diet they're planning to go on to loose some weight (one involves starving yourself for the first few days). Neither of these women need to loose weight.

One of the girls in particular is obsessed all of sudden and before she started talking about this, I used to admire how comfortable she seemed in her own skin, even if she had curves because it's rare to come across this these days. When I say curves, I mean CUUUUURVES...she's in no way overweight...she has a fine pair of breasts, small waist, curvacous backside and toned legs...if I didn't like men, I'd ask her out myself The other girl is a size 6/8. This in itself explains the lunacy of her complaining.

It seems like every time I get to know a woman, our conversations seems to veer towards discussions on diets, exercise, how they'd love to loose a few pounds and so on and so forth on a fairly regular basis. My family, my close friends, my not-so-close friends, old housemates, relations, work colleagues, aquaintances...all intelligent women complaining about something so trivial as weight but has become a life obsession for them and it's depressing beyond belief. I don't believe men know JUST how obsessed we are when it comes to our own perception of our weight. It seems most women that I come across...in fact ALL women I've come across and have got to know to some extent have at one stage or another been insecure about their bodies at LEAST once (and these are only the times they've been vocal about it). They have all had a distorted view of themselves when they look in the mirror at some stage in their lives and some more than others. I can honestly say I've never known a woman who hasn't at least ONCE commented on their weight (negatively) and how they need to loose "a few pounds". I've come across this abroad as well and in some countries a desired body weight that was only possible through virtual starvation was the norm (I think we're pretty lucky here in Ireland by contrast).

I find this exasperating and incredibly depressing and I despair of my own sex and how we've become like this; how conversation about how unhappy we are with how we look has become a accepted, normal, small-talk topic of conversation, like it's completely normal to obsess to this extent (it's also ferociously boring to boot). Surely we're better than this but it seems to be an excalating problem. It makes me feel sad. I'm happy enough with how I look (at the moment) and have been generally since my teens but I have met women who are smaller and slimer than me complaining about their weight (but paradoxically telling me I look great!!) and it gets into your subconcious somehow, even if you don't want it to. I don't want or believe I need to worry about my weight but for some reason I feel I should.

This could be viewed as a feminist issue and of course it is to some extent but I don't want to discuss the whys so much as the how the hell do we fix this problem? What went so wrong and how can we make it right? Surely we've evolved beyond this? I know this is quite a simplistic way to put it but I'm no intellectual...until we discuss this issue and find solutions in a way that your average woman on the street can understand, it'll just get worse. Time to bring this out in the open in an honest and frank way because it's like some dirty little secret us women have among ourselves and I don't want collude anymore.

I'd be interested in hearing men's views on this as well please.

The Corinthian

Unfortunately, for some women, in Western society young and thin women are prized where it comes to attractiveness.

I remember reading an article that found that found that on dating sites women were most likely to lie about their age and weight and men about their salaries. So I'd disagree that it is a question of feminism alone, as there are similar pressures placed on men too. After all, how attractive are overweight, balding men with low incomes?

So it's more to do with a modern, individualistic, attitude that we all deserve 'the best' and thus impose often unrealistic and unfair expectations.

In short, I blame the romcoms.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

Unfortunately, for some women, in Western society young and thin women are prized where it comes to attractiveness.

I remember reading an article that found that found that on dating sites women were most likely to lie about their age and weight and men about their salaries. So I'd disagree that it is a question of feminism alone, as there are similar pressures placed on men too. After all, how attractive are overweight, balding men with low incomes?

So it's more to do with a modern, individualistic, attitude that we all deserve 'the best' and thus impose often unrealistic and unfair expectations.

In short, I blame the romcoms.

I know this mostly comes to down to how we would like to be seen by opposite sex, even if we say it's for "ourselves". I understand it could be for health reason sometimes but like you said above, it's mainly to do with trying to achieve an unattainable, unrealistic ideal...which really isn't very important when you look at the bigger picture. I would absolutely agree that men have similar pressures put upon them but there's something particularly sinister when women become so obsessed with one of our most basic, human needs (food) and deprive themselves of it or engage in a guilty relationship with it day in, day out just to look like some supposed ideal.

I would also like to earn a decent salary one day because I'd like to think it would be a reflection on all the hardwork and study I put into getting there (says me wasting time on Boards!!). I don't think being the perfect 10 is any kind of achievement, tbh. I think women have the raw end of the deal here.

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I would also like to earn a decent salary one day because I'd like to think it would be a reflection on all the hardwork and study I put into getting there (says me wasting time on Boards!!). I don't think being the perfect 10 is any kind of achievement, tbh. I think women have the raw end of the deal here.

I disagree. The pressure on men is not to get a 'decent salary', but to get a 'really high salary', and increasingly the failure to achieve this by your early to mid thirties essentially rules you out as a potential mate for many women. And the type of workaholic stress that is required to get to those financial levels are frankly just as unhealthy as the dietary torture that women put themselves through - try doing a 70-hour week for a few years and tell me how raw that deal is.

Of course, both are unrealistic expectations, but it doesn't stop both men and women seeking them. Honestly, I would stop looking at it as an issue that simply effects one gender, as the solution ultimately will cover both.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

I disagree. The pressure on men is not to get a 'decent salary', but to get a 'really high salary', and increasingly the failure to achieve this by your early to mid thirties essentially rules you out as a potential mate for many women. And the type of workaholic stress that is required to get to those financial levels are frankly just as unhealthy as the dietary torture that women put themselves through - try doing a 70-hour week for a few years and tell me how raw that deal is.

Of course, both are unrealistic expectations, but it doesn't stop both men and women seeking them. Honestly, I would stop looking at it as an issue that simply effects one gender, as the solution ultimately will cover both.

Fair enough. I wasn't looking at it as an issue that only effects one gender, I was specifically looking at women's obsession with food, diets etc as I'm a woman and I suppose it's personal to me. So what's the solution??

Tim Robbins

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I'd be interested in hearing men's views on this as well please.

As long as someone has a healthy diet and takes some exercise there should be no issue with weight.

Unfortunately, it's rare Irish women do both and hence are usually fat, compared to other nations. We're not as bad as the US but we're not a million miles away either. Polish / French / Spanish / Swedish women are noway near as fat. Perhaps we're on a par with the UK.

Every day I get the train home, I always check if someone needs my seat. It's difficult to tell if a lady really is pregnant as so many (approx 50%) are overweight. This is unfortunate.

If your mates eat well and exercise well then perhaps they're just shallow. Suggest they do some volunteer work to broaden the horizens or else read some Bertrand Russell books.

rantyface

Too many Irish people are fat. It's going to lower our average life expectancy, and will be a massive burden on the health system.

I would have to eat too much and do no exercise to be a size 12. I was briefly, although I didn't realise myself that my portions were about double what a girl's should be. It's not healthy or attractive for someone my height, 5'3.5'', to be so large, but in a politically correct sense, it's not "fat", it's "curvy". This attitude has to be done away with. It is one of the worst things you could do to yourself, and it's terrible to discourage an overweight friend from losing weight by saying that they're beautiful anyway. They could get heart disease and diabetes because of advice like that. I don't need to bang on about this- google overweight and you get a million pages detailing how bad it is for you, and how negligent it is to let your children get fat.

Curvy is practically a euphemism for fat nowadays. Overweight people curve in the wrong directions- your belly is supposed to be IN from your chest. Anyway, I don't really care about that. Look whatever way you like, I just don't like the fact that they're forcing the taxpayers to pay for their manky eating habits when they get diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

Clearly not enough people realise how fat they are- it's not the other way around. I see VERY, VERY few underweight people. I don't think saw one all day. I see a lot of overwieght and obese people every day. If they were "obsessed" they wouldn't be overweight.

Most people who diet don't do it out of the self loathing you describe. When I hit 8 stone 4 I always cut back on food. It's not starvation, there's no obsession, there's no self hatred.

Fat people often bang on about how they need to lose weight- give them encouragement, not reassurance. For some people it causes a lot of relationship problems- you've seen posts on men losing interest when their OHs gain weight in PI. You know most people aren't really attracted to fat people, of course personality is faaaaar more important, (I wouldn't be put off if my OH was obese!) but it helps to look ok. Some people lose confidence when they know they don't look good.

I agree that it's really boring though! Ugh!

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I would also like to earn a decent salary one day because I'd like to think it would be a reflection on all the hardwork and study I put into getting there (says me wasting time on Boards!!). I don't think being the perfect 10 is any kind of achievement, tbh. I think women have the raw end of the deal here.

TBH I think this sort of attitude is part of the problem with women's attitude's to weight. The flippant references to attractiveness and job success. Most of the women I know in middle or top management are nothing to talk about. One of them (out of 9) is quite attractive, but the rest wouldn't be considered all that attractive. They have achieved their success because they were willing to work hard, spend the time needed to capture the attention of higher management, and were intelligent enough to set targets and achieve them.

The point is that men are not given better positions due to their attractiveness. If it does happen for women, its just one more tool available to them that men can't compete with. Although I don't think it happens all that much anymore, except in certain industries where attractiveness is considered a very important part of the job.

Most of the problems that women have with their perceptions about weight are generated by other women. If you want changes to occur, you would need to tackle womans obsession with comparing themselves to other women, and the bitchiness that is attached to those comparisons.

I have really noticed that children as young as 3 upwards in Dublin are mostly all overweight these days. Its worrying to see this, dont know if its the parents fault or whats going on but im quite worried by what i see.:(

I'm no spring chicken myself but just wanted to say that. Sorry if off topic.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I think this sort of attitude is part of the problem with women's attitude's to weight. The flippant references to attractiveness and job success. Most of the women I know in middle or top management are nothing to talk about. One of them (out of 9) is quite attractive, but the rest wouldn't be considered all that attractive. They have achieved their success because they were willing to work hard, spend the time needed to capture the attention of higher management, and were intelligent enough to set targets and achieve them.

The point is that men are not given better positions due to their attractiveness. If it does happen for women, its just one more tool available to them that men can't compete with. Although I don't think it happens all that much anymore, except in certain industries where attractiveness is considered a very important part of the job.

Most of the problems that women have with their perceptions about weight are generated by other women. If you want changes to occur, you would need to tackle womans obsession with comparing themselves to other women, and the bitchiness that is attached to those comparisons.

I think you're missing my point and taking it out of context there, Klaz. I never said a woman has/doesn't have to be goodlooking to get a job, I was simply responding to the previous poster who said men are pressured to get high salaries and women are pressured to be slim because that's what we're told is attractive. I said I would rather have the high status, high paying job than the perfect size 10 figure as it would be more of a personal achievement for me because I might have used my intellect to get it instead of my willpower to refuse another biscuit. I wasn't discussing women getting hired based on their appearance.

Anyway, I would agree that a lot of the pressure we put on ourselves comes through comparing ourselves to other women. As I said in my original post, I don't need to loose weight or want to loose weight (I quite like food) but because most women I meet are concerned about their weight, even if they don't need to be, I feel I should be to feel like I compare somehow. Really strange and quite difficult to explain this feeling to man.

I was perfectly secure in how I looked for most of my twenties but the past few years I've noticed an acute escalation in body obsession among women and it seems no western woman I've met has been left unaffected. It's spiralled out of control and as I've a few more years left on this planet, I'd like to see an end to it or even a reduction in the obsession.

NickNolte

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

So what's the solution??

There isn't one. Most people eventually mature. Of course some people are just shallow and materialistic for life.

Eve_Dublin

rantyface wrote: »

Too many Irish people are fat. It's going to lower our average life expectancy, and will be a massive burden on the health system.

I would have to eat too much and do no exercise to be a size 12. I was briefly, although I didn't realise myself that my portions were about double what a girl's should be. It's not healthy or attractive for someone my height, 5'3.5'', to be so large, but in a politically correct sense, it's not "fat", it's "curvy". This attitude has to be done away with. It is one of the worst things you could do to yourself, and it's terrible to discourage an overweight friend from losing weight by saying that they're beautiful anyway. They could get heart disease and diabetes because of advice like that. I don't need to bang on about this- google overweight and you get a million pages detailing how bad it is for you, and how negligent it is to let your children get fat.

Curvy is practically a euphemism for fat nowadays. Overweight people curve in the wrong directions- your belly is supposed to be IN from your chest. Anyway, I don't really care about that. Look whatever way you like, I just don't like the fact that they're forcing the taxpayers to pay for their manky eating habits when they get diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

Clearly not enough people realise how fat they are- it's not the other way around. I see VERY, VERY few underweight people. I don't think saw one all day. I see a lot of overwieght and obese people every day. If they were "obsessed" they wouldn't be overweight.

Most people who diet don't do it out of the self loathing you describe. When I hit 8 stone 4 I always cut back on food. It's not starvation, there's no obsession, there's no self hatred.

When I described my colleague as "curvy", I really wasn't using it in a patronising, "oooh she's just big-boned" way, she really is just curvy...more 1950's actress and less Beth Ditto. She's tall and is only a size 12-14 and she's totally in proportion, eats healthily and exercises. She's in absolutely NO danger of having a heart-attack, stroke etc. She's her optimum weight but she's still unhappy

Self-loathing...I didn't go that far but I do believe it stems from an insecurity a lot of the time. You went on a diet when you were 8 stone 4? If that's not a distortion of reality then I don't know what is. Why would someone want to loose weight at 8 stone 4??? This would ring alarm bells for me, tbh. 5 foot 3 and 8 and a half stone would seem like the ideal in my opinon. Maybe I'm wrong...

Eve_Dublin

NickNolte wrote: »

There isn't one. Most people eventually mature. Of course some people are just shallow and materialistic for life.

To be honest, it's the older women I come across who never shut up about it. If this is what's to come then I give up now.

lynsalot

rantyface wrote: »

Too many Irish people are fat. It's going to lower our average life expectancy, and will be a massive burden on the health system.

I would have to eat too much and do no exercise to be a size 12. I was briefly, although I didn't realise myself that my portions were about double what a girl's should be. It's not healthy or attractive for someone my height, 5'3.5'', to be so large, but in a politically correct sense, it's not "fat", it's "curvy". This attitude has to be done away with. It is one of the worst things you could do to yourself, and it's terrible to discourage an overweight friend from losing weight by saying that they're beautiful anyway. They could get heart disease and diabetes because of advice like that. I don't need to bang on about this- google overweight and you get a million pages detailing how bad it is for you, and how negligent it is to let your children get fat.

Curvy is practically a euphemism for fat nowadays. Overweight people curve in the wrong directions- your belly is supposed to be IN from your chest. Anyway, I don't really care about that. Look whatever way you like, I just don't like the fact that they're forcing the taxpayers to pay for their manky eating habits when they get diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

Clearly not enough people realise how fat they are- it's not the other way around. I see VERY, VERY few underweight people. I don't think saw one all day. I see a lot of overwieght and obese people every day. If they were "obsessed" they wouldn't be overweight.

Most people who diet don't do it out of the self loathing you describe. When I hit 8 stone 4 I always cut back on food. It's not starvation, there's no obsession, there's no self hatred.

Fat people often bang on about how they need to lose weight- give them encouragement, not reassurance. For some people it causes a lot of relationship problems- you've seen posts on men losing interest when their OHs gain weight in PI. You know most people aren't really attracted to fat people

I agree that it's really boring though! Ugh!

In my opinion it's this kind of attitude that causes the problem in the first place. It's great if you can control your weight but did it ever occur to you that some ppl can't for medical reasons? That they struggle with their weight( Women with poly cystic ovaries or women who've had children. ) The pressure put on ppl to look a certain way to avoid these types of attitudes are what fuels the obsession in the first place. Ppl are self conscious because they hear comments or read posts like this one and they start obsessing with how they look. I agree that an overweight person shouldn't be molly coddled but your entire post is a little ambiguous really. "Fat" people cause problems, more money, aren't attractive - no pressure though....

SLUSK

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Right, I personally have had it up to HERE with women and society's obsession with weight. Just back from a tea break with some girls I work with and both girls were talking about some fad diet they're planning to go on to loose some weight (one involves starving yourself for the first few days). Neither of these women need to loose weight.

One of the girls in particular is obsessed all of sudden and before she started talking about this, I used to admire how comfortable she seemed in her own skin, even if she had curves because it's rare to come across this these days. When I say curves, I mean CUUUUURVES...she's in no way overweight...she has a fine pair of breasts, small waist, curvacous backside and toned legs...if I didn't like men, I'd ask her out myself The other girl is a size 6/8. This in itself explains the lunacy of her complaining.

It seems like every time I get to know a woman, our conversations seems to veer towards discussions on diets, exercise, how they'd love to loose a few pounds and so on and so forth on a fairly regular basis. My family, my close friends, my not-so-close friends, old housemates, relations, work colleagues, aquaintances...all intelligent women complaining about something so trivial as weight but has become a life obsession for them and it's depressing beyond belief. I don't believe men know JUST how obsessed we are when it comes to our own perception of our weight. It seems most women that I come across...in fact ALL women I've come across and have got to know to some extent have at one stage or another been insecure about their bodies at LEAST once (and these are only the times they've been vocal about it). They have all had a distorted view of themselves when they look in the mirror at some stage in their lives and some more than others. I can honestly say I've never known a woman who hasn't at least ONCE commented on their weight (negatively) and how they need to loose "a few pounds". I've come across this abroad as well and in some countries a desired body weight that was only possible through virtual starvation was the norm (I think we're pretty lucky here in Ireland by contrast).

I find this exasperating and incredibly depressing and I despair of my own sex and how we've become like this; how conversation about how unhappy we are with how we look has become a accepted, normal, small-talk topic of conversation, like it's completely normal to obsess to this extent (it's also ferociously boring to boot). Surely we're better than this but it seems to be an excalating problem. It makes me feel sad. I'm happy enough with how I look (at the moment) and have been generally since my teens but I have met women who are smaller and slimer than me complaining about their weight (but paradoxically telling me I look great!!) and it gets into your subconcious somehow, even if you don't want it to. I don't want or believe I need to worry about my weight but for some reason I feel I should.

This could be viewed as a feminist issue and of course it is to some extent but I don't want to discuss the whys so much as the how the hell do we fix this problem? What went so wrong and how can we make it right? Surely we've evolved beyond this? I know this is quite a simplistic way to put it but I'm no intellectual...until we discuss this issue and find solutions in a way that your average woman on the street can understand, it'll just get worse. Time to bring this out in the open in an honest and frank way because it's like some dirty little secret us women have among ourselves and I don't want collude anymore.

I'd be interested in hearing men's views on this as well please.

In general it is probably not men who make them feel insecure but other females. Women don't have friends they have frienemies.

Jumpy

lynsalot wrote: »

In my opinion it's this kind of attitude that causes the problem in the first place. It's great if you can control your weight but did it ever occur to you that some ppl can't for medical reasons? That they struggle with their weight( Women with poly cystic ovaries or women who've had children. ) The pressure put on ppl to look a certain way to avoid these types of attitudes are what fuels the obsession in the first place. Ppl are self conscious because they hear comments or read posts like this one and they start obsessing with how they look. I agree that an overweight person shouldn't be molly coddled but your entire post is a little ambiguous really. "Fat" people cause problems, more money, aren't attractive - no pressure though....

There is always a "but what about those with a medical disorder?" arguments in every pro/anti fat thread.
Its about the same as how every bad parent argues that their child has ADD.

Yes it happens, but its damn rare. Stop it with the PC crap. As an ex fatty I have to say that it kills you. People are not meant to be fat. Its not beautiful, its not curvy, its fat.
The fad diet crap is useless, I agree that that is more harmful than good. Exercise and lifting heavy things above my head was the only way forward.

markopantelic

irish girls are rarely healthy, rarely see any in great shape

Jumpy

markopantelic wrote: »

irish girls are rarely healthy, rarely see any in great shape

To be fair, the weather here is not exactly the best for regular training. Hence not many people take up a sport here.

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Fair enough. I wasn't looking at it as an issue that only effects one gender, I was specifically looking at women's obsession with food, diets etc as I'm a woman and I suppose it's personal to me. So what's the solution??

Change people's perceptions on what is attractive.

What is considered attractive is not written in stone. It varies from culture to culture and also over time. In many African cultures women, that we would consider overweight, are considered attractive. Even in our own culture, thin women have only been considered attractive relativity recently - see what girls you would have found in Playboy in the 1960's if you don't believe me.

techdiver

Jumpy wrote: »

To be fair, the weather here is not exactly the best for regular training. Hence not many people take up a sport here.

That is in no way an excuse. It's laziness that causes Irish people not to engage in exercise. It is true of both men and women, but in my experience women are more guilty.

Tim Robbins

Jumpy wrote: »

To be fair, the weather here is not exactly the best for regular training. Hence not many people take up a sport here.

Our society doesn't encourage ladies to play sports. The biggest sports: Hurling, Gaelic Football, Soccer and Rugby are dominated by men.

Most girls who exercise do it purely to stay in shape. This is wrong. They should do it because they like it and the added benefit is that they stay in shape. However, if you have a society where there are very few ladies sports how are they supposed to have fun. Other countries, loads of women play Basketball, Tennis, Netball etc. Tag Rugby has been good for women, but in my experience a lot of ladies hate it because it's the first experience with a competitive environment and it can a bit much.

It would be a very good vote spinner and PC thing for a Minster for Sports to say they wanted to encourage more girls to play sports. Surprisingly none have picked up on it. Probably because they're usually men :-)

techdiver

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Our society doesn't encourage ladies to play sports. The biggest sports: Hurling, Gaelic Football, Soccer and Rugby are dominated by men.

The GAA and soccer for that matter has a huge female membership and participation. In fact it is increasing every year.

Tim Robbins

techdiver wrote: »

The GAA and soccer for that matter has a huge female membership and participation. In fact it is increasing every year.

Dito Rugby but it's statistically much smaller than blokes participation.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I think you're missing my point and taking it out of context there, Klaz. I never said a woman has/doesn't have to be goodlooking to get a job, I was simply responding to the previous poster who said men are pressured to get high salaries and women are pressured to be slim because that's what we're told is attractive.

Grand, however, I read what you've posted and I see something different. But if that's what you intended to say, fine.

I said I would rather have the high status, high paying job than the perfect size 10 figure as it would be more of a personal achievement for me because I might have used my intellect to get it instead of my willpower to refuse another biscuit. I wasn't discussing women getting hired based on their appearance.

Strange, cause the part in italics is pretty much invalidated by the part in bold. You've drawn the line that attractiveness is a very relevant aspect to getting success in work. While you prefer to achieve in other ways, you're still making that comparison.

Anyway, I would agree that a lot of the pressure we put on ourselves comes through comparing ourselves to other women. As I said in my original post, I don't need to loose weight or want to loose weight (I quite like food) but because most women I meet are concerned about their weight, even if they don't need to be, I feel I should be to feel like I compare somehow. Really strange and quite difficult to explain this feeling to man.

LOL... Difficult to explain to a man? Hardly, since we have similar issues with Muscle tone, weight, and prosperity. Ever hear men comparing their cars? Especially if one has a nice convertible and the rest are driving older cars. Besides, most men have a long history of hearing the same conversations from their female friends..

I was perfectly secure in how I looked for most of my twenties but the past few years I've noticed an acute escalation in body obsession among women and it seems no western woman I've met has been left unaffected. It's spiralled out of control and as I've a few more years left on this planet, I'd like to see an end to it or even a reduction in the obsession.

Actually, Its perfectly normal to consider weight as you get older, like once you reach your 30's and higher again. The female body itself changes, so you're going to notice a change in how your body looks. Every woman goes through this, and there's nothing wrong with being aware, or even desiring to combat it.

There is a rather large difference between being aware & wishing to keep slim, and becoming obsessed with weight.

Jumpy

Jumpy wrote: »

To be fair, the weather here is not exactly the best for regular training. Hence not many people take up a sport here.

Seems an awkward excuse for all those men that take up sports around the country... regardless, most towns in Ireland have Gym facilities, and even outside of that, its not that expensive to pick up a training machine for the home. Hell, my parents do an excellent job of staying fit by walking a lot, and working around the home. Sorry, that excuse doesn't really fly.

Tim Robbins wrote:

Our society doesn't encourage ladies to play sports. The biggest sports: Hurling, Gaelic Football, Soccer and Rugby are dominated by men.

Because in the past, women weren't encouraged, so there is larger emphasis on men in Irish sport. BUT. That emphasis isn't as strong as before, and the choice is there for women to join in.

One of the biggest problems for Irish sport for women, is that there are not enough women dedicating themselves to it, so there isn't enough competition country-wide.

It would be a very good vote spinner and PC thing for a Minster for Sports to say they wanted to encourage more girls to play sports. Surprisingly none have picked up on it. Probably because they're usually men :-)

It does get tiresome to hear every excuse to be because there's more men in an area than women. Perhaps if more women sought such positions, there would be more of them? But that's not convenient. :rolleyes:

Goduznt Xzst

techdiver wrote: »

That is in no way an excuse. It's laziness that causes Irish people not to engage in exercise. It is true of both men and women, but in my experience women are more guilty.

Head west and you'll notice a drop off in the perceivable mean weight of individuals. Irish people aren't overweight for the majority, people who live in Irish cities are overweight. A lot of us work sedentary jobs, have easy access to transportation to avoid walking and for recreation in and around the city choose alcohol consumption, fast food and sitting in movie theaters.

It's not laziness per se, it is the human body adjusting to the environment it is needed to function in. A human who lives the former described lifestyle has no need for a body that is tuned for speed, strength, agility... etc.

People who engage in sports and have interests in physical activities assume people who don't are "lazy". This isn't the case, they simple have different interests to you and their bodies have adapted to function within the requirements of these interests.

techdiver

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Dito Rugby but it's statistically much smaller than blokes participation.

Yea, but in fairness I don't think we'll ever see a 50/50 level of participation. I have many male and female friends and more males play sport because they want to and are interested. Some women just couldn't be bothered playing as it doesn't appeal to them. It's not that there is nothing available for them.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Grand, however, I read what you've posted and I see something different. But if that's what you intended to say, fine.



Strange, cause the part in italics is pretty much invalidated by the part in bold. You've drawn the line that attractiveness is a very relevant aspect to getting success in work. While you prefer to achieve in other ways, you're still making that comparison.

I didn't actually...I didn't make this comparison, that was the poster before me..this has nothing to do with my issue. I didn't bring it up, merely responding to what he said. I'm talking about women obsessing over their weight for whatever reason. I don't deny that some women get hired based on their looks, of course they do but this is lessening, thank goodness. Maybe a woman DOES diet obsessively to get a job but where the sense of achievement in that? You say it's an advantage we have over men? I don't agree. I don't think many women out there would like to be placed in a position soley on what they look like (besides from the obvious occupations) where a man was hired on his qualifications (and the fact that he's a man) alone. Anyway, I digress..

LOL... Difficult to explain to a man? Hardly, since we have similar issues with Muscle tone, weight, and prosperity. Ever hear men comparing their cars? Especially if one has a nice convertible and the rest are driving older cars. Besides, most men have a long history of hearing the same conversations from their female friends..

Perhaps. I'm not denying it...I wouldn't know what men talk about when they're not in the company of women but a lot of men don't understand WHY women obsess so much over their weight specifically...you often hear men saying they dont' like super-skinny women (or super-fat women) but women put pressures on each other because they think this is what's desirable. I wasn't trying to patronise but I man couldn't possibly understand to what extent women obsess over their weight. That's all I meant.

Actually, Its perfectly normal to consider weight as you get older, like once you reach your 30's and higher again. The female body itself changes, so you're going to notice a change in how your body looks. Every woman goes through this, and there's nothing wrong with being aware, or even desiring to combat it.

Cool, it's great to want to stay fit and healthy into your old age, I plan to do it myself but you wouldn't believe the amount of conversation taken up by this topic among groups of women like it's the be-all and end-all. Older men don't obsess to the extent as older women. Why?

There is a rather large difference between being aware & wishing to keep slim, and becoming obsessed with weight.

Absolutely. Read my original post. What's the sense in a woman who's in perfectly good shape and is slim obsessing over their weight and commenting on how fat she is? THIS is what I'm talking about. I've come across a hell of a lot of women who are consumed by their weight. Many women do a very good job pretending this is not a major issue for them among men but among their own sex, it all comes out.

Tim Robbins

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Absolutely. Read my original post. What's the sense in a woman who's in perfectly good shape and is slim obsessing over their weight and commenting on how fat she is? THIS is what I'm talking about. I've come across a hell of a lot of women who are consumed by their weight. Many women do a very good job pretending this is not a major issue for them among men but among their own sex, it all comes out.

Do you think these women are intrinsically shallow or insecure? And hence just can't help it?

It wasn't me!

Society develops an unhealthy obsession with low weight and body-fat levels because they're so far from the statistical norm. Were it the norm to be slim, toned and athletic, a more healthy attitude to weight loss would be adopted across the board. Unfortunately, it's not.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Absolutely. Read my original post. What's the sense in a woman who's in perfectly good shape and is slim obsessing over their weight and commenting on how fat she is? THIS is what I'm talking about.

But are they actually obsessing about their weight or are they just seeking to promote that they are indeed slim? I've noticed that the women I know (and past gf's) that have great figure's seek to gain acknowledgment from others for their achievement in having such a great body. They comment on their own weight to highlight other womens failures (or lack of desire to combat the weight).

I've come across a hell of a lot of women who are consumed by their weight.

So have I. And yet, I have met plenty who are not consumed by it. They're aware of their weight, and seek to maintain a realistic balance. That is still fairly common.

Many women do a very good job pretending this is not a major issue for them among men but among their own sex, it all comes out.

I think you're doing an injustice to men here. We're bombarded with information about womens weight all the time, usually by being present in the conversations that their partners have with their friends. I've had a number of my female friends ask me to help them keep their non-essential eating on the minimum. Its not a secret society that women have. Men are included on a very regular basis with this type of topic, and many men are bullied into managing their own weight by their partners, simply because they need the moral support.

rantyface

lynsalot wrote: »

Women with poly cystic ovaries or women who've had children.

You're definitely not supposed to get fat when you're pregnant. That eating-for-two thing is rubbish. It causes birth complications and difficulties in screening. Overweight women have "bigger" babies on average but that's actually a bad thing, because they don't come out as easily. They also have a higher risk of birth defects. Breast feeding helps get the weight off too.

Anyway, the VAST majority of fat people eat too much, don't give them too much benefit of the doubt.

It IS annoying when slim women go on about their weight. I think it's because they are so close to the hollywood ideal that it's frustrating not to be there. You know, getting 99% in a test, or 69% in college. It's nothing to do with being shallow. I'm sure as many men are as interested in cars and sport as women are in their weight, and sport is even more vapid (I mean watching sport, playing is great) so it's not that women are more shallow than men. Everyone needs a bit of silliness.

studiorat

People eat way more than they should period. Compaired to the work/excersise we do compared to what we eat. It's surpirsing there's not more people overweight.

There is serious pressure on women obviously to keep a good figure, men too for that matter. But obsession with weight as it relates here,m has much more to do with personal issues like self esteem and self worth than just looking like something off the telly.

lynsalot

What i'm trying to say is it's things like this that cause so much pressure and make it harder for ppl to lose weight.

Society is obsessed with weight. There are some very valid points re. sport because it's enjoyed rather than just for keeping in shape. It WOULD HELP if there was more of an onus on being happy with yourself as opposed to being slim. There are emotional reasons for eating - it's not just gluttony. There's 1/3 of the population overweight. They're eating for some reason and I'm sure it's hardly cause they're hungry. As someone whose constantly trying to lose weight it's a nice break to start taking up exercise as a hobby I enjoy as opposed to because I want to look a certain way.

That being said it's still pretty hard to walk into a gym 3 times a week when I'm clearly unfit. The times I haven't I tend to stay at home eating and feeling sorry for myself. - they're not manky eating habits!! A lot of ppl comfort eat. I think if society wasn't so fixated on obesity and appearance there would be a lot less pressure on ppl to lose weight making it easier for them.... which really only reiterates the original posters views.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think the amount of people not being overly concerned about being overweight is a lot more concerning than the amount of people underweight due to anorexia/bulemia etc

The latter fall into mentally ill so its a different category altogether and usually isn't down to the media and more likely to be deep rooted issue

CathyMoran

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think the amount of people not being overly concerned about being overweight is a lot more concerning than the amount of people underweight/anorexic/bulemic/etc

The latter fall into mentally ill so its a different category altogether and usually isn't down to the media and more likely to be deep rooted issue

Opps, that must be a typo? Not all underweight people are ill - some of us have medical conditions or some of us are just skinny! The media does push ultra skinny size 0 as being the norm - is it any wonder that so many women have eating disorders?

My own pet gripe is that diabetes is always associated in the media as being the "fat person's" illness - well firstly there are two types of diabetes, type 1 is not linked to obesity while some type 2 is...is it any wonder that there are a lot of type 1 diabetics with eating disorders? Sorry, rant over.

Ideally people should be a normal weight but people do vary - it is far easier to buy foods that will fatten than foods that will keep you a healthy weight and there needs to be a lot of education about what is and is not healthy to eat...hopefully this could stop the obsession with weight.

rantyface

90% of cases of diabetes in Ireland are Type 2, and the main indicator for that is being overweight.
Type 1 is a different thing altogether, that's when you don't make enough insulin.

I think it's cheaper to buy healthy food- especially in Lidl. If you don't drink, smoke or eat meat, you can easily get your week's food on Lidl for €30. That's what I did in college. Take away is still too expensive for me!

CathyMoran

rantyface wrote: »

90% of cases of diabetes in Ireland are Type 2, and the main indicator for that is being overweight.
Type 1 is a different thing altogether, that's when you don't make enough insulin.

I think it's cheaper to buy healthy food- especially in Lidl. If you don't drink, smoke or eat meat, you can easily get your week's food on Lidl for €30. That's what I did in college. Take away is still too expensive for me!

I dont know the percentages but not all type 2 diabetics are overweight/their illness caused by obesity - there needs to be better public education about this...and as to us type 1 diabetics who got the illness due to other reasons...how would you feel being wrongly told by someone that you had the "illness that fat people get"

A lot of people do not know how to cook healthy food and rely on ready meals - most of these are unhealthy (and that is being kind).

Bottle_of_Smoke

CathyMoran wrote: »

Opps, that must be a typo? Not all underweight people are ill - some of us have medical conditions or some of us are just skinny! The media does push ultra skinny size 0 as being the norm - is it any wonder that so many women have eating disorders?

My own pet gripe is that diabetes is always associated in the media as being the "fat person's" illness - well firstly there are two types of diabetes, type 1 is not linked to obesity while some type 2 is...is it any wonder that there are a lot of type 1 diabetics with eating disorders? Sorry, rant over.

Yeah actually underweight shouldn't have been in there but I meant the ones who are underweight due to mental illness. Will edit.

That's a very good point about diabetes given type one diabetes sufferers are generally thin to begin with. Also, in almost all cases other than the late adult onset kind its diagnosed in early years when the patient may not understand/be told about the different types of the condition and thus be vulnerable to overweight references

Its a shame they're both called diabetes given they're actually quite different. The media should really make an effort to always say "type 2 diabetes" when referring to risks of being overweight, some do but most don't. I'm doing Nutrition myself so will make sure its always underlined if I'm ever speaking about it.

rantyface wrote:

Type 1 is a different thing altogether, that's when you don't make enough insulin.

Its actually when you produce no insulin. Its caused by the body's immune system destroying the cells in the pancreas that produce it. This is why all type-1 sufferers inject insulin whereas type 2 sufferers usually don't have to.

rantyface

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Its actually when you produce no insulin. Its caused by the body's immune system destroying the cells in the pancreas that produce it. This is why all type-1 sufferers inject insulin whereas type 2 sufferers usually don't have to.

Look it up. It's not enough, which includes none. It's an auto immune disease where the b cells are gradually destroyed. Eventually you produce none, but well before that you need insulin. Nothing to do with weight.

Type 2 is insulin resistance, the majority of cases are caused by being overweight- or have the same root cause as being overweight- bad diet, no exercise. Even children are being diagnosed with it now, because they have negligent parents.

lizzyvera

Fat people are robbing resources from people who need them. With this recession and public health cuts I cannot see how you can justify that. We already have a shoddy health system, just wait until all these chubby children grow up.

It's not fair that I have to get private health insurance AND pay high tax because these monsters won't stop eating. And it's usually not an emotional thing either. It's an eating-chips-and-watching-soaps thing. At least for every one of the fifteen or so fat people I know, and all the fat people I see walking out of the chippers every day, and all the fat people I pass on my bike in their cars, and all the fat women picking up their fat children from school in their massive cars.

Although I generally don't support the idea of a nanny state, some children are being given no chance at life because of their lazy parents driving them to school, not being bothered supervising them when they're out playing on the road and feeding them ready meals. Something needs to be done.

parker kent

This area touches on so many issues. Firstly, the OP is right, so many girls talk forever about all of these issues. My best friend is a girl but I hate being around her other female friends. It's always diet s**t talk or how you won't get a boyfriend if you're fat etc. One of her friends is especially annoying with this. Always buying fad diet books but never, ever doing a bit of exercise.

This is what annoys me. If people exercised and ate proper, healthy food they would be in good shape. By good shape I mean healthy and toned, not emaciated. Too often the girls on these diets will go overboard on the diets for a month eating two salad leaves all day and then revert back to eating KitKats and muffins, all washed down with Coke (note: typical example exaggerated for this post!). If the food pyramid approach was taken, so many people would be healthier! But an actual healthy diet is the one diet that such people should try. Bin the cakes and eat a a banana!!

Then aside from people who are in need of becoming healthy, there are girls that are perfectly fine but think they need to lose weight. This is just as annoying. A size 8 girl going on as if she is fat, working out out like a crazed loon to lose a few more pounds.

Plus despite what I just said, the obsession with dress sizes feeds into this, why should their be a perfect dress size? How can there be a perfect dress size when there are girls that are 5'1 and others that are 5'11, and with various body shapes??? Girls (and guys) need to just get as healthy and as fit as their body will allow. If you like sport, play it. If you don't find something you like. You need no equipment to exercise, just use what God gave you!

lizzyvera

lizzyvera wrote: »

Fat people are robbing resources from people who need them.

I had a serious laugh at this. There are plenty of skinny people doing the same. :rolleyes:

With this recession and public health cuts I cannot see how you can justify that. We already have a shoddy health system, just wait until all these chubby children grow up.

We have a shoddy health system, because the government has been consistently incapable of spending the money allocated to the health system in an efficient and capable manner. There are plenty of countries similar in size to Ireland, and have decent health systems. The current system has been failing for decades, and it won't only be these "chubby" children that will buckle it, but everyone else that is on the bandwagon.

It's not fair that I have to get private health insurance AND pay high tax because these monsters won't stop eating.

You have private health insurance because you want a higher standard of coverage than your PRSI benefits provide. You pay high tax because we're a small country, and few resources, where most of the population believes we should have a standard of living comparable with the richest countries in the world. Its not because there are people out there who either have eating disorders, self-esteem issues, or are just plain fat...

Life isn't fair.

And it's usually not an emotional thing either. It's an eating-chips-and-watching-soaps thing. At least for every one of the fifteen or so fat people I know, and all the fat people I see walking out of the chippers every day, and all the fat people I pass on my bike in their cars, and all the fat women picking up their fat children from school in their massive cars.

So if we abolish cars for fat people then it would solve most of the problems?

McGinty

Hi Op

To your orignal question re: an obsession with weight, well you are right in one sense but I feel that society as a whole is obsessed with weight and food related issues. We live in strange times, there are more diets, information on food and nutrition yet people are getting (generally) bigger. Food is everywhere we go, women's magazines obsess about who is getting fatter or who is getting thinner. Personally I have decided to opt out of it largely although I sometimes feel the pull of it to either discuss dieting or go through the mental self hate when I gain weight.
I believe a combination of healthy eating based on the food pyramid, fun exercise you like and most important a personal relationship with your body will eradicate most of the obsessive talk on weight and feelings of inadequacy. If a conversation about weight bores you, give a glazed look and minimum of comment and I can guarantee you that the other person will stop talking about it. Or you could be totally honest and say conversations about diets bore you to death. I personally avoid the women's magazines because they too are obsessed about weight and any books relating to weight loss. Mostly though I have realised that society continues to obsess about weight and you cannot change that, you can only change your own attitude by opting out of it mentally.

lizzyvera

Deleted User wrote: »

There are plenty of skinny people doing the same. :rolleyes:

Aren't heart disease and type 2 diabetes the two largest areas of expenditure in health? (TBH my text book is British so it could be different here). So reducing them would free up resources for people who didn't cause their own illness? It would make sense that if less people were sick, there would be more money to go around. I think everyone should have free health care, but I really wish people appreciated their health more and didn't eat chips until their arteries bursted. For themselves and everyone else who picks up their tab.
Same goes for smoking and eating badly without getting fat.

Anyway, eating disorders are normally indicative of something else. A lot of mentally healthy people go on diets and lose weight. It's ok to feel happier about yourself if you're healthier and thinner, lots of people get a great sense of acheivement. I've noticed that the more troubled and unhappy people I've known have gone further than normal. I don't think simply reading magazines can have such a profound effect on an otherwise stable person.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

But are they actually obsessing about their weight or are they just seeking to promote that they are indeed slim? I've noticed that the women I know (and past gf's) that have great figure's seek to gain acknowledgment from others for their achievement in having such a great body. They comment on their own weight to highlight other womens failures (or lack of desire to combat the weight).



So have I. And yet, I have met plenty who are not consumed by it. They're aware of their weight, and seek to maintain a realistic balance. That is still fairly common.



I think you're doing an injustice to men here. We're bombarded with information about womens weight all the time, usually by being present in the conversations that their partners have with their friends. I've had a number of my female friends ask me to help them keep their non-essential eating on the minimum. Its not a secret society that women have. Men are included on a very regular basis with this type of topic, and many men are bullied into managing their own weight by their partners, simply because they need the moral support.

Sorry, I'm being terribly blonde here but I have to figure out how to use the multi-quote thing to respond to you. I agree with some of what you're saying here by the way...

Astrogeek

How do we solve this problem?

Education.

The people who are obese because they do no exercise and constantly eat fatty unhealthy food need to be encouraged to maintain a much healthier lifestyle. Society should not accept this as normal. Friends and family members should not lie to these people, they should not be made to believe they are "curvy".
I don't believe in a "nanny state". If somebody chooses to be and stay obese that is their choice. But if you love someone, you shouldn't encourage them to continue a behaviour that is damaging to their health.

The same goes for smokers. If somebody chooses to smoke that is their choice but smokers understand it isn't healthy.

I don't think people really understand the definitions of underweight, ideal weight, overweight and obese. If everybody knew what their ideal weight was, a lot of minds would be put to rest. The people who worry thinking they are overweight would know if they are or not.

I really think this should be part of a regular doctor's check-up. I also think a check-up with your GP should be nowhere near as expensive as it is, and that this would save the health system a lot of money in the long run. As people would be encouraged to have check-ups, and hence understand more about their bodies and how they should take care of themselves.

Obviously there are people out there with more complicated issues that won't be solved so simply. But a visit to their GP may point them in the direction of the help they really need.

So lets get out there and make getting a health check-up the hip thing to do!

CathyMoran

Personally I believe that a nanny state where people have their weight checked regularly would be a bad idea and would only encourage eating disorders - you have to want to loose weight if you are overweight and having people weight obsessed would lead to a lot more dangerous eating. Healthy food needs to be cheaper, easy to prepare and people need to know about healthy eating as a school subject that is somehow made fun.

ntlbell

CathyMoran wrote: »

Personally I believe that a nanny state where people have their weight checked regularly would be a bad idea and would only encourage eating disorders - you have to want to loose weight if you are overweight and having people weight obsessed would lead to a lot more dangerous eating. Healthy food needs to be cheaper, easy to prepare and people need to know about healthy eating as a school subject that is somehow made fun.

I think tax breaks for parent's who's kids are healthy would go down well

If your kids are healthy eating right and exercising there much more inclined to teach their kids the same.

if your kids are healthy there's less chance of them costing the state money later on for all manner of illness's etc

the kids go to the GP every 6 month's for check up's this will also get them into a normal routine of seeing a doctor every 6 month's for normal regular check up's

but i agree good healthy foods need to become more affordable.

where a vast amount of the obesity problems do seem to have social classes attached to them

all_smilz

I have a quick read through some of the posts on this thread.
I agree that people are obsessed with diets and weight.
Unfortunately a LOT of people who are on this diet or that diet dont need it, I have sat there and listened to them talk about how they were going to eat grapefruit before every meal for two weeks straight.
I am obese. I have struggled with my weight and body image since i was a pre teen. I can tell you of bullying, discrimination, loneliness, self loathing and many many tears. I used to carry my rucksack in front of me to "hide" myself.
I have recently gone to a LOT of effort to lose 4.5 stone, i am happy about this but i still have a lot more weight to lose.

I am realistic about my size (to the point of being overly hard on myself) but I have never cost the health service a penny in being overweight- i havent been hospitalised or put on disability. I would say, what about alcoholics? social welfare fraudsters? drug abusers? what do THEY cost society....
I have through my work in a hospital seen MANY obese people, and their suffering... SURE it IS self inflicted, i made myself fat, i turned to food out of loneliness and boredom and partial ignorance but i'm trying to change that now.

It upsets me to get "looks", and i still do, because of my weight, to feel like i somehow SHOULDNT belong in A wear or many other high street shops? or to feel foolish and out of place in a gym, Maybe its in my head you may say, but then i dread post club drunks who think its ok to randomly stop and shout "hey fatty, you stupid fat cow etc etc" at me...

that hurts, and then i have to go home and NOT eat to bandaid the hurting.... sometimes i do.

and it upsets me to hear healthy women/men whine about their body shape when i would give all the world to be in their shoes....

sorry for the jumbled nature of this post, just airing my side of things...

bottom line- a LOT of the people talking about this dont have a problem, i dont know if its fishing for compliments or just NONSENSE that they have been socialised to talk about and the people who DO have a problem havent the support or courage to face up to their real problems....

Húrin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Surely we've evolved beyond this?

It's because evolutionary success is constantly on our minds that we have this problem.

I think it's because Irish women for the most part do not exercise. Good diet is only half of staying at a healthy weight. Women don't see results from normal diets so they turn to the extreme diets because they're not exercising.

One solution to this is to increase rates of foot and bicycle transport. Too many trips are made by car, bus and tram. This is not only bad for congestion but also for health.