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Unscrupulous Thailand

  • 13-06-2009 03:13PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭


    Just in Bangkok at the moment and needed to get some stuff off my chest.

    Finished doing some sightseeing today and have returned, not enthralled with the history and sights, but rather disgusted with the attitude shown towards farang or foreigners. Now, I know all about the "walking ATM" views of foreigners and I was exposed to this quite a lot in S. Thailand where tourism generates quite a high proportion of local earnings and is understandable, to an extent. I'm not adverse to a bit of bargaining with locals, its part and parcel of travelling here.

    But today really pissed me off. First of all, got the canal boat today to visit the revered Grand Palace and surrounding temples. Noticed there seemed to be two prices on display for the boat; one in English for 13baht and then one in thai for 10baht. I enquired what was the 10baht price referring to and the sales person said, with a somewhat proud gait, that this was the price for thais. Nothing too serious, I'm not going to develop an ulcer over 3b, but this theme then continued during the day.

    Upon arriving at the Grand Palace I tried to enter through one of the smaller side entrances but was directed to the large front entrance instead. I observed some thais go in unimpeded and for free, so when I was asked to pay 400baht at the main entrance, I was severely pissed off. I flatly refused to pay and walked to the more moderately priced Wat Pho nearby.

    The same "double pricing" system is enforced in many national parks where foreigners are expected to pay multiples of the price charged to locals. I plan to visit a famous waterfall near Kanchanaburi tomorrow and will have to pay 400b for the luxury of doing so while thais walk in for c50b beside me.

    Added to this, the government has recently decided to impose a flat rate of 150baht for all withdrawals from ATMs using foreign cards. Do they not realise that these practices, coupled with trouble in the south and remaining threats of coups/airport blockades are turning many people away from the once great tourist destination (almost forgot about the 15day land visa farce as well)?

    This grates me particularly because I started my travels in Malaysia and encountered no such double standards and a general greater respect shown to foreigners. Although I still enjoy Thailand and its many attractions, this certainly leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I would love to return to Malaysia in the future and spend more time there as an older/non backpacker tourist but I feel this will more than likely be the last time I visit the great land of smiles/scams.

    Ahh, feel a bit better now.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 sworderer


    What is the "15 day land visa farce"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    But thais are generally very poor, 400 bhat to you might be the equivalent of 50 bhat to them....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭justfortherecor


    But thais are generally very poor, 400 bhat to you might be the equivalent of 50 bhat to them....

    That argument has been put forward to me by a couple of people. Doesn't work for me: I see it as discrimination, pure and simple. Just because I have a white face means I have to pay a multiple of some amount as opposed to a local?
    Phillipines and Malaysia (not so much) are still relatively poor countries compared to Ireland yet this practice is not prevalent to the same degree as in Thailand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    You're paying a tourist fee and not a farang fee. I don't have any major problem with it but others like yourself do.

    If you were to show a working visa at any of these places you'd get charged the local rate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Would you be willing to pay several days wages to enter the National Gallery in Dublin?

    Because that's what 400 baht equates to for many Thais.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭breadmonkey


    kraggy wrote: »
    Would you be willing to pay several days wages to enter the National Gallery in Dublin?

    Because that's what 400 baht equates to for many Thais.

    Eh, I think you have it arseways tbh.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    I see your point but whats the point in giving out about it. Would be nice to have everything cheap but we arent talking big money here at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭breadmonkey


    jank wrote: »
    I see your point but whats the point in giving out about it. Would be nice to have everything cheap but we arent talking big money here at all.

    No but I think the main points are:

    a) One of the major factors of going to places like Thailand is the fact the the cost of living is so low.
    b) Nobody enjoys feeling as if they are openly being ripped off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    If you can't tell the difference between being ripped off and paying what you should be able to afford, then you should not be traveling. I don't look Irish and have to pay the foreigner rate still because i don't look Thai. But in Latin America i sometimes get charged local rates. Seriously i don't get why people don't understand the different prices. Do you think any Thai would get to see the sights in their own country if they were the same prices as foreigners pay?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭breadmonkey


    If you can't tell the difference between being ripped off and paying what you should be able to afford, then you should not be traveling.
    As I previously stated, a big reason for a lot of people visiting these places is the fact that the cost of living is so cheap. And some stuff in Thailand is a rip off imo. Specifically, I'm thinking of Thai Boxing in Bangkok.
    I don't look Irish and have to pay the foreigner rate still because i don't look Thai. But in Latin America i sometimes get charged local rates
    But I presume you then interject and insist on paying the foreigner rate because it's what you can afford, right?
    Seriously i don't get why people don't understand the different prices. Do you think any Thai would get to see the sights in their own country if they were the same prices as foreigners pay?
    Like I said to kraggy above, nobody is arguing that Thais should have to pay the foreigner rate but rather that tourists shouldn't be scalped at every possible opportunity.

    Honestly I don't understand how anyone can feel perfectly fine with being treated as a walking ATM.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    As I previously stated, a big reason for a lot of people visiting these places is the fact that the cost of living is so cheap. And some stuff in Thailand is a rip off imo. Specifically, I'm thinking of Thai Boxing in Bangkok.


    But I presume you then interject and insist on paying the foreigner rate because it's what you can afford, right?


    Like I said to kraggy above, nobody is arguing that Thais should have to pay the foreigner rate but rather that tourists shouldn't be scalped at every possible opportunity.

    Honestly I don't understand how anyone can feel perfectly fine with being treated as a walking ATM.


    If you can afford to pay for a trip half way across the world then i too would assume that you should be able to afford a little bit more than locals. It's still less than anything you would pay to see in Ireland on the same touristic level. It's the same when you go to Spainish resort type places or whatever. Prices are more expensive than other places in Spain and people pay them regardless without complaint. The only difference is that Spain is close enough on par with earnings to us and we both pay the same prices.

    I don't need to interject and say that i shouldn't pay more most of the time. They tell by my accent. For some reason my Spanish sounds Venezuelan. Probably because Castellano is similar to it. So most of the time they correct themselves. I am generous when traveling in terms of tipping and giving directly to locals so if i can get something cheaper from a government that isn't giving what i gave back to the community i don't feel guilty.

    When there is a set price and it is displayed i don't feel like i am a walking ATM machine. I only feel that way when someone makes up a price on the spot because i am different from how they look. how do you know they don't set the price for the entrance first and then deduct a percentage off if you are a local. You just assume it's the other way around. I don't know how they do it and because i don't i won't complain about it. I'm lucky i can afford to travel. No matter where i come back from i always feel more ripped off when i get on Dublin bus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    I hate being treated as a walking ATM in Thailand as much as anyone but I don't object to dual pricing in some places although I don't remember paying 400 THB into the Grand Palace myself.

    As I said earlier, if it's mostly a tourist fee and not a farang fee then that is fine by me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Typical bloody attitude of Irish people, "shut up and pay up"!
    As the OP says he wont be going back. Hopefully these tinpot dumps learn a bit of economics the hard way and tourists go to Malaysia and the like instead where they are greaful for your custom, not demanding of it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭who what when


    I was in thailand this time last year. One day just walking down the street i realised i required a top of funds and made my way over to an atm where twenty something thai lady was using the atm.

    Now she was very small so i could see that her balance was 3500 baht (70 euroish at the time) and that she requested a withdrawal of 50 baht (1 euro).

    Now when talking to the lads later on i explained what i saw and we all agreed that the level of poverty was just terrible. Then after a small silence one of the lads remarked that the lady in question had more in her bank account than he did!!! Then when we thought about it we realised that (being just out of college) none of us were greatly richer than her!

    I suppose my point is that while we in the west have easier access to making large amounts of money, once cost of living etc is taken into consideration a lot of us arent as wealthy as we think.

    So this is really just a long way of saying i agree with the op!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    Well i doubt your mate came away with 70 euro. While she has 70 euro in her account to pay for bills, food, etc. You mate has that because he paid for flights, accommodation, food, drink or whatever and can go back and earn more in a day in even a crap job than she had in her bank account. So that basis is a bit of a reach.

    And it's not the typical Irish attitude of shutting up and paying up. Guess other nationalities do that too since i've met more than just Irish people at these so called expensive tourist traps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Well i doubt your mate came away with 70 euro. While she has 70 euro in her account to pay for bills, food, etc. You mate has that because he paid for flights, accommodation, food, drink or whatever and can go back and earn more in a day in even a crap job than she had in her bank account. So that basis is a bit of a reach.

    And it's not the typical Irish attitude of shutting up and paying up. Guess other nationalities do that too since i've met more than just Irish people at these so called expensive tourist traps.

    She withdrew one seventieth of her account. When's the last time you did that? His point is that relatively she is not that poor in her country.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    Return flight to Thailand - €600 (guessing here)
    Hotels for the trip - €300 (again guessing).
    Grand Palace visit - 400THB or €8.50 or about the price of a box of smokes.
    Travelling all that way then not seeing something because it costs €8.50 - Priceless.

    You know the money you're paying is what is helping pay for the upkeep of some of these temples, parks and monuments. Should they decrease the price for tourists to the locals price (then who pays for the upkeep) or should they increase the price to the locals (so only tourists can visit their national treasures)? The official minimum wage in Bangkok is 203THB a day. Grand. They'd only have to work 2 days to visit that palace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭breadmonkey


    Return flight to Thailand - €600 (guessing here)
    Hotels for the trip - €300 (again guessing).
    Grand Palace visit - 400THB or €8.50 or about the price of a box of smokes.
    Travelling all that way then not seeing something because it costs €8.50 - Priceless.

    Multiplying that €8.50 by the number of days of trip and realising that's a sizeable chunk of change......?

    Neamh,

    I'm not totally against the dual pricing especially when, as you pointed out, prices are displayed. However, I don't agree with tourists being fleeced when you consider the huge amount of dough they're dropping in the country through flights, visas and spending etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭breadmonkey


    You know the money you're paying is what is helping pay for the upkeep of some of these temples, parks and monuments. Should they decrease the price for tourists to the locals price (then who pays for the upkeep) or should they increase the price to the locals (so only tourists can visit their national treasures)?

    The point





    Your head


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭54kroc


    Return flight to Thailand - €600 (guessing here)
    Hotels for the trip - €300 (again guessing).
    Grand Palace visit - 400THB or €8.50 or about the price of a box of smokes.
    Travelling all that way then not seeing something because it costs €8.50 - Priceless.
    LoL


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    enda1 wrote: »
    Typical bloody attitude of Irish people, "shut up and pay up"!
    As the OP says he wont be going back. Hopefully these tinpot dumps learn a bit of economics the hard way and tourists go to Malaysia and the like instead where they are greaful for your custom, not demanding of it!

    LOL Have you actually ever been to Malaysia and I mean proper Malaysia the villages, towns etc not some "resort" by the beach! If you have been you know that it costs a hell of a lot more to do every day things there than Thailand or any other country in South East Asia. You make it out to be some low cost paradise.

    So you want these "tinpot" dumps to learn economics but not learn the one fundamental of economics itself. Price something according to its perceived value.

    I can’t remember what I paid to see the grand palace but if it were 400 baht I would consider that a bargain. If the OP came away from that experience thinking about how "expensive" it is then he/she needs to get a life. IMO the OP has been ripped off by some local scam artist one too many times and wants to blame the culture rather their own naivety and gullibility. Yea sometimes we tourists pay a bit more now and again but if you cant handle that then stop travelling. Simple!

    I got a 3 day pass for Angkor wat for about $40 I think. Now the locals probably don’t pay anything if they want to see it. Am I going to crib about that to see the one of the wonders of the world. It was worth every cent and if one came away grumbling over the "prices" then you either better stop travelling or get yourself a new attitude.

    I don’t see the point of flying half way around the world to see these sights but complain that it costs a few euros extra to see stuff. We are not talking hundreds of Euros here. We are talking about the price of a beer to see some of the most fantastic manmade structures and natural landscapes on this earth.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    No but I think the main points are:

    a) One of the major factors of going to places like Thailand is the fact the the cost of living is so low.

    Yes one of them. Are you saying that Thailand is now expensive. Compared to OECD countries these places are still dirt cheap. If said palace was in an OECD country than it would cost alot more than 400 baht so all round good value.Non argument really.

    b) Nobody enjoys feeling as if they are openly being ripped off.

    If you say that this is a rip off then god help you if you ever go/move back to Ireland as this board would explode and crash with your angry rants!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Eh, I think you have it arseways tbh.

    Eh, how so?

    If Thais were quoted Western prices to get into the Wats in Bangkok, few of them would be able to afford it.

    The Western prices equate to a lot of money for many Thais. Hence the comparison with us having to pay a couple of days wages to get into the National Gallery here. It wouldn't be fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    For me this whole issue is about equality. I, like the OP, also get irked at tourists having to pay a higher price than the locals for the same thing.

    Ask yourself- if a rich Thai person comes to Ireland- do we charge them more than Irish people? No we don't everyone pays the same and that is how you run an equitable society.
    This argument that foreigners should pay more 'because they can afford to' doesnt settle well. You either treat people equally or you dont.

    To the OP- Id advise never to go to Vietnam- they regularlly charge tourists there more than 10 times the going rate and they make no secret of it on their signs.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Of course in an ideal world this practise would enver happen. TBH i only saw this a few times in thailand and other places around South East Asia. I think the OP would have a heart attack if they went to the 'Nam...:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭waraf


    Wow I don't think I spent a single second of my time in Thailand posting stuff on the net. ;)

    Forget about the double pricing OP and just enjoy your surroundings. It's only a pittance in the difference to be fair and you wouldn't even get a pint in Dublin for some of the prices you mentioned. Leave your indignation and your principles aside for a while and just try and have fun. If you're anything like the rest of us you have 30 years behind a desk to look forward to so enjoy yourself while you can ;):)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 917 ✭✭✭geecee


    Thai attitude to the dual pricing issue has always been that their Taxes pay for the upkeep of the monuments or the transport subsidies...

    You don't pay them taxes - therefore you pay more to access the facilities...

    With regard to the 150B ATM fee - that has been imposed by the banks and not the Govt....

    By the way OP - thered shirts are on the move again - I suggest you get out of dodge before you get stuck there permanently!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    Entrance into Kinabalu Park, Sabah, Borneo, Malaysia:

    Malaysians: 3 MYR
    Non-Malaysian: 15 MYR

    Mountain Climbing Permit Fee

    Malaysians: 30 MYR
    Non-Malaysian: 100 MYR

    Your beloved Malaysia is also known for dual-pricing.

    If you contribute taxes then you shouldn't have to pay the 'tourist' price and rightly so.

    geecee, what's going on with the red shirts? I hadn't heard anything?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Your beloved Malaysia is also known for dual-pricing.

    It's everywhere. I was on a ferry in Egypt a couple of years ago. The locals were all paying with a tiny coin. The price in English was 1 Egypt Pound which is a note (it's about 10 times what they were paying but is shag all anyway) and everything else was dual prices. Myself and my missus were the only two westerners on the boat. We weren't sitting there thinking about getting ripped off :)

    Basically if you think this kind of practice is ripping you off then vote with your feet. Same as Ireland. I've caught myself in Thailand haggling over 50c. That's when I took a step back and said it's nothing to me and a lot to them, what am I doing here?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Actually forgot about Borneo. They have dual prices as well and is a hell of a lot more than anything you will find in thailand. There you will feel out of pocket. Was still class though!:pac:


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