Vegetarians on Abortion.

rockmongrel

Hi guys, maybe this isn't the right place but I've been wondering this for a while now. Mods, feel free to move or lock this if its in the wrong place.

Basically my question is as the title says, what is the average vegetarian/vegans view on abortion?
I've been thinking seriously about the idea of vegetarianism, but I've also very pro choice, and I'm wondering if anybody else shares my thoughts.

-lala-

rockmongrel wrote: »

Hi guys, maybe this isn't the right place but I've been wondering this for a while now. Mods, feel free to move or lock this if its in the wrong place.

Basically my question is as the title says, what is the average vegetarian/vegans view on abortion?
I've been thinking seriously about the idea of vegetarianism, but I've also very pro choice, and I'm wondering if anybody else shares my thoughts.

TBH I've never really thought of my beliefs on abortion as being connected in any way to veganism, but I suppose now that you mention it they are reasonably similar issues. Personally, I'm a vegan and I'm also pro-life, but I don't know what the "average" vegetarian/vegans views on abortion are. Guess we'll have to wait and see!

I don't think that you should feel the two HAVE to be connected in order for you to make a decision one way or the other, if you're comfortable being a pro-choice vegetarian then that's all that matters.

Slaphead07

rockmongrel wrote: »

Basically my question is as the title says, what is the average vegetarian/vegans view on abortion?

Nobody can answer that. I could give you MY views on abortion but nobody here can speak for other vegetarianson the issue. We don't all live in a big house and have a collective policy on various issues.

sweet-rasmus

Slaphead07 - the OP wanted to know what we, individual vegetarians/vegans thought, our opinion on the matter. No need to be sarcasitic.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and it will stay open for any vegans/veggies to offer their opinions. A debate on the topic of abortion, rights and wrongs, is not required; hold it elsewhere.

Slaphead07

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

Slaphead07 - the OP wanted to know what we, individual vegetarians/vegans thought, our opinion on the matter. No need to be sarcasitic.

Eh? The question was "what is the average vegetarian/vegans view on abortion" which does not ask for individual views but a collective one. It's insulting to be asked for a view as a group and it happens regualrly both here and IRL.

rockmongrel

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Eh? The question was "what is the average vegetarian/vegans view on abortion" which does not ask for individual views but a collective one. It's insulting to be asked for a view as a group and it happens regualrly both here and IRL.

I added the word average so as not to create that sort of situation, maybe i should have been clearer.

Slaphead07

rockmongrel wrote: »

I added the word average so as not to create that sort of situation, maybe i should have been clearer.

Ok, it has kinda the opposite effect though. There is no "average vegetarian". Maybe "your individual view" or simply "your view" would have been clearer but we know where we all are now.

seamus

I don't see the link, really.

There is a tendancy to assume that all vegetarians are airy-fairy, "All life is precious" types, but in reality, it's choice about what you consume and not necessarily a side-effect of your own outlook on life. I'm pretty sure there are vegetarian hunters in existence, for example.

I personally see no difference between getting an early-term abortion and eating an egg. In both cases what's being destroyed is organic matter. There's no life to speak of.

giddybootz

Weird one!! I have been asked many, many things about why/how I am a veggie many, many times but this is a new one!!

I fail to see the connection really!

Im not being smart OP...just wondering why you wanted to ask veggies/vegans in particulsr?

Slaphead07

seamus wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are vegetarian hunters in existence, for example.

Really? I'm pretty sure there aren't. Unless shopping for soya burgers is considered urban hunting.

seamus

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Really? I'm pretty sure there aren't. Unless shopping for soya burgers is considered urban hunting.

Well, there are plenty of people who are vegetarian for health reasons or because perhaps they just don't like it. Considering the billions of people in the world, there has to be a combination of "non-ethical vegetarian" and "hunter" out there. My point is really to illustrate the broad range of reasons which preclude vegetarianism in the first place.

bronte

Vegetarian 16 years and pro-choice. I've never made the connection tbh!

Slaphead07

seamus wrote: »

Well, there are plenty of people who are vegetarian for health reasons or because perhaps they just don't like it. Considering the billions of people in the world, there has to be a combination of "non-ethical vegetarian" and "hunter" out there. My point is really to illustrate the broad range of reasons which preclude vegetarianism in the first place.

Well ok, I would always take the definition "vegetarian" to mean somebody who through choice does not eat meat. Some who is told by their doctor not to eat meat isn't a vegetarian, they're simply somebody who cannot eat meat.
The billions out there are mainly ethical where their religion/beliefs preclude meat eating - this same belief system would surely exclude hunting too.

I fully accept your last point and the spirit in which it was intended, but really there's maybe only a handful of reasons why people are (by choice) vegetarian. Cruelty, animal rights, disgust at eating animals, religious etc.

Tar.Aldarion

There is no connection OP, It's like saying what religion is the average vegetarian? Or what is the average vegetarians favourite colour?

I personally see no difference between getting an early-term abortion and eating an egg. In both cases what's being destroyed is organic matter. There's no life to speak of.

Well I think there is a huge difference between a foetus and an unfertilised egg. They are the same when it is fertilized though. I would equate ova to unfertilised eggs.

lizzyvera

Vegetarian and pro life. I actually think they are connected. Most people believe what suits their lifestyle and tastes, I think being vegetarian and pro life are both sacrifices you have to make to keep a clear conscience. Most people don't even want to think about the impact of eating meat because they like the taste, many pro choice people get annoyed by images of aborted foetuses, even though they support what has happened to them. People tend to look out for number one, so it's hard to be pro choice as a sexually active woman. I found that the more I thought about it logically, the more opposed to abortion I was, but initially I'd want one if I got pregnant, just in that instant when everything blurs when you hear bad news. I like to think I have enough strength of character not to panic like that though. I've never eaten meat just because it looked nice or because I was pressured into it by other people.
They're also two very unpopular stances, I think probably because it makes other people feel slightly guilty, or as though they're being judged.

Slaphead07

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

There is no connection OP, It's like saying what religion is the average vegetarian? Or what is the average vegetarians favourite colour?

That's how I read it.

entropi

Well i didnt have much of a view on it before i was vegetarian, still dont have...

I've been to the Bodies exhibition in the Ambassador and seen the aborted foetuses on display, i actually found them fascinating to look at as i study alot of anatomy on my college course.

maameeo

i personally couldnt abort a baby/foetus (not sure what way to term it)
i got pregnant at 18 and i didnt even see it as an option. but i dont see myself as pro-life or pro-choice. its a tough decision either way and needs a lot of courage. and i respect whatever decision the person makes. i would hope, however, that the choice is made early.

jape

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

There is no connection OP, It's like saying what religion is the average vegetarian? Or what is the average vegetarians favourite colour?

Blue.. no red.. actually blue..

(more relevant than the op lol)

-lala-

jape wrote: »

Blue.. no red.. actually blue..

(more relevant than the op lol)

Not really.

I think the OP was genuinely curious as to whether or not there was a connection, which is fair enough.

JoeJC

I am a vegetarian, soon to be vegan, and pro-life.

ztoical

vegetarian and very pro-choice. It should be my choice what happens to my body in all areas, what I eat and what happens medically etc

Harri

I'm vegetarian and I'm pro-choice but I've never actually thought of the two as inter-linked.
My only real 'defence' (I guess you'd call it) is that I don't believe I'd ever be able to abort my own child (I can't say for sure there's alway circumstances e.g. rape) although it's the right option for some people and I don't judge them for it. Just as I can't eat meat but I don't try stop others doing it.
If that makes any sense?

Rowley Birkin QC

seamus wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are vegetarian hunters in existence, for example.

*Puts hand up*

Veggie since the age of 4 but I've owned and used a.22 Rifle and a Shotgun since the age of 20.

Camarague

bigkev49 wrote: »

*Puts hand up*

Veggie since the age of 4 but I've owned and used a.22 Rifle and a Shotgun since the age of 20.

???

Rowley Birkin QC

Camarague wrote: »

???

Just don't like meat but I don't see a need to force my views on anyone else and I enjoy shooting.

Tar.Aldarion

What view would you be forcing, that you don't like meat?

Rowley Birkin QC

Ha! True, but I've met people who are militant vegetarians and I'm definitely not in that camp!

maameeo

Harri wrote: »

I'm vegetarian and I'm pro-choice but I've never actually thought of the two as inter-linked.
My only real 'defence' (I guess you'd call it) is that I don't believe I'd ever be able to abort my own child (I can't say for sure there's alway circumstances e.g. rape) although it's the right option for some people and I don't judge them for it. Just as I can't eat meat but I don't try stop others doing it.
If that makes any sense?

makes sense to me, thats how i feel about it.

Crumble Froo

been a veggie for 2 years, pro-choice, but personally, if pregnant, i would almost certainly not get an abortion. in the same way i have nothing against people who eat meat, it's just not for me.

my partner's got relatively similar views, he's pro-choice too, but he has a less pleasant view of people who eat meat than i do (though i suppose after a quarter of a century as a veggie, the concept completely disgusts him).

Camarague

Crumble Froo wrote: »

my partner's got relatively similar views, he's pro-choice too, but he has a less pleasant view of people who eat meat than i do (though i suppose after a quarter of a century as a veggie, the concept completely disgusts him).

I can't see any logic here. Surely pro-choice would be from a live and let live point of view - but then take a judgemental view of people that eat meat?

BurnsCarpenter

Veggie and pro-life.

Don't really see the two issues as being related.

smegmar

Veggie and strongly pro life.

from an ethical point I think the two are linked, it's all about standing up for something classed as not developed enough to deserve life.

Censorsh!t

Well, I imagine many people view vegetarians as being pro life, I mean I guess it would make sense for many. But it's really more complex than that. It depends when you believe life begins, and if it's wrong to take a life that could have been etc etc.
I personally, am pro choice.

Rowley Birkin QC

Just realised I didn't post my views, I am most definitely pro-choice.

Crumble Froo

Camarague wrote: »

I can't see any logic here. Surely pro-choice would be from a live and let live point of view - but then take a judgemental view of people that eat meat?

i never said i understand him, i just said i love him

Camarague

Censorsh!t wrote: »

Well, I imagine many people view vegetarians as being pro life, I mean I guess it would make sense for many. But it's really more complex than that. It depends when you believe life begins, and if it's wrong to take a life that could have been etc etc.
I personally, am pro choice.

I would think most vegetarians are seen as left-wing types, and therefore pro-choice.

When I became a vegetarian about two years ago, I was unshakeable in my belief that it was wrong to kill animals to eat them.

I was also strongly pro-life two years ago for exactly the same reason. So I do see the issues as being linked.

But my views have progressed and although I am still a vegetarian and still consider myself essentially pro-life, I don't see things as simply as I did then.

I now believe for example, that you can be an animal rights activist while being a meat eater, and understand how wrong it is to judge somebody who has had an abortion, etc

JC 2K3

Just clicked form the front pages and found this interesting, I'm not a veggie.

I think that while it's likely that vegetarians would be either pro-life or be legally pro-choice but would never have an abortion (/want their partner to have an abortion) themselves, it wouldn't be that unusual for a vegetarian to be pro-abortion.

Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.

-lala-

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.

Yeah, I'd agree with this - unless, of course, the vegan in question is not a vegan for ethical reasons, although I've never heard of any such vegans.

Tar.Aldarion

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Veganism and pro-abortionism, I can't see being logically compatible, however.

The reason they can be is because people believe life happens at different stages. Whether it be at conception or when nerve endings form or whatever. If people think abortion is getting rid of something that is not life then they could be vegan and pro choice, yes?

JC 2K3

But vegans don't even eat unfertilized chicken eggs, wouldn't make sense that they'd be for killing fertilized human eggs.

Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.

Camarague

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But vegans don't even eat unfertilized chicken eggs, wouldn't make sense that they'd be for killing fertilized human eggs.

Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.

Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

Never seen that label on any eggs

Tar.Aldarion

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Although, I suppose they could if they object to eating chicken eggs because they considered chickens to have the right not to have their eggs harvested by humans, and human embryos/foetuses to not be lives. Which is fair enough.

Yes this is what I meant, and even f they wanted to harvest the humans, for example , they could get consent.

BurnsCarpenter

Camarague wrote: »

Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

Never seen that label on any eggs

All of the eggs we eat are unfertilised. Chicken period, so to speak.
Fertilised eggs would be a bit more.....beaky. :eek:

JC 2K3

Camarague wrote: »

Where can you get unfertilised eggs?

Never seen that label on any eggs

Errr....

Tar.Aldarion

No need for that smegmar.

People have been offend, next time is a ban. Be a good chap.

raah!

I think we can at least make a statistically valid connection that; vegetarians who are vegetarians for certain ethical reasons (and make decisions regarding other people based on these same ethical concerns) would not compose the pro-choice group who use arguments like "even though it's a person...".

I never thought of the "I wouldn't but other people can" abortion stance though, which makes alot of sense too in connection to "I wouldn't eat meat but other people can" type vegetarians. I think this shows an admirable ideological consistancy which is not found in many peoples abortion views today. As for me I'm a vegetarian who doesn't force it on other people, but I do think human life is slightly more important still, so I am anti-abortion, mainly because I don't think we have a complete enough understanding of the biology yet to define when the life is human etc etc.

I think they are most certainly connected though, just there are different categories of vegetarians, and different categories of pro/anti-abortion people.

Aoifums

I'm a vegan and I'm pro choice. I don't want you telling me what to do if it were my body, so I can't tell you what to do with yours. I don't think I could get an abortion though, but I still can't force you not to have one.

Mentalmiss

I am vegan and atheist and firmly anti abortion.
By all means be pro choice but make the choice before you have sex and use contraception.
I would not try to stop anyone else having an abortion and in fact have travelled twice to the UK to accompany others who had made that choice. I think that we should educate people and not condemn them.

Crumble Froo

... and for those that used contraception, only for it to fail...?

Tar.Aldarion

Crumble Froo wrote: »

... and for those that used contraception, only for it to fail...?

What do you mean?