218 Kenyan marathoners have run 2:18:00 or faster this year

ss43

Just thought I'd point out this ridiculous fact about Kenyan marathone runners -

With less than half the year gone

40 Kenyans have gone 2:10:00 or faster
218 Kenyans (plus three more running for Qatar [1] and Bahrain [2]) have gone 2:18:00 or faster (qualifying standard for World Championships)

We have no athletes ranked that high so far. Have we any capable of running that fast this year other than Fagan?

jlang

I think a poster here a few days ago came close enough in a training run.

Hard Worker

We have a few who are capable. Chris Cariss is a 2.15 marathon runner who ran 2.19.46 in Hamburg this year. Hopefully we will have three Irish who'll run sub 2.18 in Dublin this year.

p to the e

218 ran 2:18. coincidence or conspiracy?

shels4ever

Hard Worker wrote: »

We have a few who are capable. Chris Cariss is a 2.15 marathon runner who ran 2.19.46 in Hamburg this year. Hopefully we will have three Irish who'll run sub 2.18 in Dublin this year.

Should be a good dublin marathon this year then, will defo try to get to a few places to watch as the tv coverage is terrible. Any chance they will do something extra this year as its a landmark year?

thirtyfoot

shels4ever wrote: »

will defo try to get to a few places to watch as the tv coverage is terrible.

Is it true TG4 are showing it this year? If so, lets hope Kathryn Davis can't speak Irish.

crosbie

A good video on this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QApyq4bops&feature=fvst

Hard Worker

If Martin Fagan were to run in the next European Marathon Championship, I think we could have good back up with two or three from Vinny Mulvey, Joe McAlister, Chris Cariss and a few more who might move up to the marathon. We have plenty capable of running sub 2.18 if they put their minds to it.

ecoli

Hard Worker wrote: »

I think we've strayed a bit from the OP.
If Martin Fagan were to run in the next European Marathon Championship, I think we could have good back up with two or three from Vinny Mulvey, Joe McAlister, Chris Cariss and a few more who might move up to the marathon. We have plenty capable of running sub 2.18 if they put their minds to it.

Sean Connolly is also another anme who could be talked about on level par with the lads being mentioned here

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

Sean Connolly is also another anme who could be talked about on level par with the lads being mentioned here

I think Sean should focus on track for a while. Compared to Vinny Mulvey and others he looks really at home and more natural on track and is very strong and compact. Maybe 5000 or even 10000. His control and domination of the IMC 3000 was very impressive and his move on the back straight was great.

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

I think Sean should focus on track for a while. Compared to Vinny Mulvey and others he looks really at home and more natural on track and is very strong and compact. Maybe 5000 or even 10000. His control and domination of the IMC 3000 was very impressive and his move on the back straight was great.

True and he does have a natural speed however his training is very similar to Vinny s so he would well able to cover the distance and as for more natural on track his 10k national road title shows that he can adapt this to the roads so who knows what his plans are

Clum

Hard Worker wrote: »

If Martin Fagan were to run in the next European Marathon Championship, I think we could have good back up with two or three from Vinny Mulvey, Joe McAlister, Chris Cariss and a few more who might move up to the marathon. We have plenty capable of running sub 2.18 if they put their minds to it.

I don't mean to undermine Vinny Mulvey or Joe McAlister in any way, they are top class athletes, and this point applies to all athletes, but until a runner can prove himself at marathon distance there's no point speculating about what they can do.

The marathon is a huge step up from 10,000m, even from the Half marathon, and is very unpredictable. Best example I can think of is Zersaney Tadese. A double world half marathon champion and World Cross Country Champion yet he dropped out of the London marathon after being heavily tipped as one to watch.

It'd be great if we did have a solid team in the marathon, but at the moment we've very few proven marathoners in top form out there. Even Fagan, although he ran his heart out in Dubai and put in a magnificant performance, can't be taken for granted. The one marathon he did complete took chunks out him.

walshb

ss43 wrote: »

Just thought I'd point out this ridiculous fact about Kenyan marathone runners -

With less than half the year gone

40 Kenyans have gone 2:10:00 or faster
218 Kenyans (plus three more running for Qatar [1] and Bahrain [2]) have gone 2:18:00 or faster (qualifying standard for World Championships)

We have no athletes ranked that high so far. Have we any capable of running that fast this year other than Fagan?

And we're being told they are starving!:rolleyes:

Mick Rice

What's the link between the number of marathoners under 2:18 in Kenya and poverty in Africa?

Can you explain?

ss43

Mick Rice wrote: »

What's the link between the number of marathoners under 2:18 in Kenya and poverty in Africa?

Can you explain?

Not directed at me but I'll give it a go -

Many Kenyan's live in very poor conditions. This gives them motivation to work very hard to get out of this situation. After seeing the success of Kip Keino and others, athletics became a popular way of achieving this. Kenyans began having wholesale success across a range of distance track and cross ocuntry events. More recently, Kenyans have moved to the marathon. This is because: 1) the depth of Kenyans running world class times makes it difficult to get into track meets worth any money and 2) the marathon boom means there are lots of available marathons to run and earn cash from.

I don't think you'll find to many Kenyans running marathons for the laugh and ocminghome in three hours. The money is a huge motivational factor which comes from living in poverty.

walshb

Mick Rice wrote: »

What's the link between the number of marathoners under 2:18 in Kenya and poverty in Africa?

Can you explain?

I supose that you could surmise, that with all the so called poverty, it's a little strange that they can still win gold in sport events. I wonder, are they really all that hungry. Maybe Trocaire and GOAL and all these other agencies should start working here; maybe then we'd be able to compete against these Kenyans!

asimonov

walshb wrote: »

And we're being told they are starving!:rolleyes:

I don't think real people dieing from real hunger should be played for laughs.

thirtyfoot

walshb wrote: »

I supose that you could surmise, that with all the so called poverty, it's a little strange that they can still win gold in sport events. I wonder, are they really all that hungry. Maybe Trocaire and GOAL and all these other agencies should start working here; maybe then we'd be able to compete against these Kenyans!

If you are serious you probably need to get a grip. Have you ever been to Kenya or east Africa? I was in Tanzania a few years back. I would meet a few kids and guys out running when heading out to villages in pretty rudimentary running gear. At the same villages I met families riddled with poverty and many with HIV. One woman in her 40's looking after her two daughters in their 20's, both with HIV. I returned to the village a week later and both girls were dead. Elsewhere, poverty and hunger was rampant and this wasn't a particularly bad area. Uprisings in Kenya in '07 killiing many including athletes. Its a cake walk out there all right!

If you are having a laugh I'd see that as trolling warranting a ban as there are several regular posters here who will have connections with this part of the world through running and will find jokes about the same as offensive. There are others with no connection other than a love of the way Kenyans/Ethiopeans run who will also find it offensive. Then there are others who will find it just plain offensive.

Mick Rice

I think we all understand what motivates poor africans to see sport as a route out of poverty. I was just asking the question out of hope that the previous poster wasn't taking what looked to me to be a cheap shot at starving Africans. Perhaps I'm wrong but that's the way it looks.

ecoli

walshb wrote: »

I supose that you could surmise, that with all the so called poverty, it's a little strange that they can still win gold in sport events. I wonder, are they really all that hungry. Maybe Trocaire and GOAL and all these other agencies should start working here; maybe then we'd be able to compete against these Kenyans!

Its very suprising to see that a moderator coming out with this kinda thing i wouldnt expect it from any of the posters. Many Kenyans are driven to a level of focus we could not even imagine. For many of these athletes running is there only hope of survival and escaping life of war and poverty.
Even in terms of getting a job at home the number of Kenyan armed forces who are runners shows a distinct favouritism towards athletes and as such shows very little in terms of an alternative option.
You wanna talk about competing with these maybe we should get out and two 2 to three long runs a day. Their focus should be admired and not mocked by ignorant westerners

--amadeus--

Walshb infracted for trolling. If you are serious and that is an argument you want to have it belongs in Politics not here.

walshb

Holy sh!t, why the sensitivity here. Relax, it was a simple comment on how Kenyans are portrayed by the west as poor and hungry and starving every time one puts on the tv or looks at the paper, yet they are winning tons more medals at championships than we will ever win. I didn't mean any offence and have ZERO against Kenyan people!

ecoli

walshb wrote: »

Holy sh!t, why the sensitivity here. Relax, it was a simple comment on how Kenyans are portrayed by the west as poor and hungry and starving every time one puts on the tv or looks at the paper, yet they are winning tons more medals at championships than we will ever win. I didn't mean any offence and have ZERO against Kenyan people!

To be honest in most charity appeals, Kenya is very rarely specifically mentioned in fact i cant recall one that actual uses Kenya as an example

walshb

ecoli wrote: »

To be honest in most charity appeals, Kenya is very rarely specifically mentioned in fact i cant recall one that actual uses Kenya as an example

I disagree completely, anyway, this doesn't belong in the athletics forum

Seems that maybe we deserve a mention every time a Kenyan runner
laps one of our own!

So, all that training and running they do is a little easier since
we here in Ireland are feeding them and funding them!

http://www.farawayupclose.ie/series4/3kenya/abo_hum_sit.htm

ecoli

walshb wrote: »

I disagree completely, anyway, this doesn't belong in the athletics forum
Seems that maybe we deserve a mention every time a Kenyan runner
laps one of our own!

So, all that training and running they do is a little easier since
we here in Ireland are feeding them and funding them!

http://www.farawayupclose.ie/series4/3kenya/abo_hum_sit.htm

This is the only part of your comment i will dignify with a response it doesnt belong in an athletics forum so should be dropped

walshb

ecoli wrote: »

This is the only part of your comment i will dignify with a response it doesnt belong in an athletics forum so should be dropped

Good retort!

Anyway, wouldn't any country, even Ireland, possibly do better if other countries were
looking after their finances, making sure they had food and shelter and making sure that they could train for hours a day without having to worry about mortgages and food and education, sure the Irish will sort that, lads, just keep training and winning medals.

Hey, some might be a little sensitive discussing it. Why?

These athletes have ZERO to do but run and train by the looks of it.
Any issues or problems, ha, Ireland and the WEST will look
after that!

buck65

Jeez walshb what are you on about?
You're a good guy , back down now this is crazy talk and you are burying yourself here.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0225/p25s11-woaf.html

thirtyfoot

walshb wrote: »

Good retort!

Anyway, wouldn't any country, even Ireland, possibly do better if other countries were
looking after their finances, making sure they had food and shelter and making sure that they could train for hours a day without having to worry about mortgages and food and education, sure the Irish will sort that, lads, just keep training and winning medals.

Hey, some might be a little sensitive discussing it. Why?

These athletes have ZERO to do but run and train by the looks of it.
Any issues or problems, ha, Ireland and the WEST will look
after that!

So you are serious:(. People are a little sensitive because they perhaps have Kenyan friends and have seen at first hand the problems that exist in eastern Africa. Are you seriously saying that there is a connection between the charity money that Ireland donates to Africa and their success as athletes? Thats like saying the tax I pay that goes to people who are on the dole in rough working class areas is helping the kids in the local boxing club versus say the kids in my running club ( I see you are a Boxing mod so just using this as an example) as they and their parents don't need to work or pay for the roof over their head so they can concentrate totally on boxing :rolleyes:. What a ridiculous point that would be to make in a sports forum even if I did believe it (which I don't) so I'd never make it as we all know it isn't true. The opinion was relayed once to me and I disagreed and argued against it much like many are agrueing against you here.

While you are entitled to your opinion, I think that you are ignorant in relation to Kenyan running and why many of these guys do it and what they have to go through. For practically all it is their chance to escape and make a living. Many who do make a living inject much of what they earn back into their community or live simple lives when they retire, living off a bit of land that they could afford when they made some money on the circuit. Very ignorant understanding of sport from someone obviously involved in sport yourself. Sport in many societies allows people who otherwise would be from very poor and disadvantaged backrounds achieve great success. Kenyan athletes, Brazilian footballers, Sri Lankan crickerters, black american bastketballers and so on.

A novel idea, lets stop all overseas charity drives and pump into the GPA:D

ss43

walshb wrote: »

they could train for hours a day without having to worry about mortgages and food and education

The reason a lot of them run is so they have money to buy food, land and pay for education for their families. The aid doesn't just suddenly make life easy.

The aid goes to those in the worst circumstances - these generally aren't the ones who make it to the top. The kids with HIV or the ones brought up sniffing glue and lving in dumps (literally) probably won't turn out to be 2:10 marathoners so you can help them without worrying it'll hurt our own athletes chances too much.

The runners seem to come from very poor families but ones that weren't quite on the brink of dying of hunger so they probably didn't see too much of the aid. A lot of the runners don't finish school so they're not using the educational aid funds either.

JKF

ss43 wrote: »

Not directed at me but I'll give it a go -

Many Kenyan's live in very poor conditions. This gives them motivation to work very hard to get out of this situation. After seeing the success of Kip Keino and others, athletics became a popular way of achieving this. Kenyans began having wholesale success across a range of distance track and cross ocuntry events. More recently, Kenyans have moved to the marathon. This is because: 1) the depth of Kenyans running world class times makes it difficult to get into track meets worth any money and 2) the marathon boom means there are lots of available marathons to run and earn cash from.

I don't think you'll find to many Kenyans running marathons for the laugh and ocminghome in three hours. The money is a huge motivational factor which comes from living in poverty.

Good point. Alistair Cragg made the same comment in that Ireland's Olympians documentary rte showed before Beijing. Can't for the life of me find a link to it now but I imagine its somewhere on the website

cfitz

Tingle wrote: »

So you are serious:(.

You'll have to remove his infraction so

ecoli

cfitz wrote: »

You'll have to remove his infraction so

+1

dna_leri

Is there a different rule for mods, why is this thread not shut down?

There's also the general "don't be a muppet" rule

thirtyfoot

cfitz wrote: »

You'll have to remove his infraction so

I'm appealing to his better nature as someone involved in sport and still believe he can't genuinly believe that so I still think he is a troll which using

Backseat modding can also carry an infraction;) but I'd never do that to you because I like you:)

Lets talk sport and not stupid global politics and forum moderation protocol, we've had enough of that muck recently.

Future talk of Irish Charity money ensuring Kenya get a 1-2-3 in the 'chase in 2012 will be regarded as trolling and will result in a ban.

Lets talk sport!

hunnymonster

cfita, ecoli, no back seat modding please

dnaleri, mods are only mods in the forums they moderate, everywhere else they are just ordinary punters.

If posters are going to make claims about aid/money and it's link to athletic performance, could they please justify these comments, at the moment I can't see any relevance or reason for it being raised in a thread about the athletic marathon performance of Kenyan runners this year.

walshb

Tingle and others, at least now you are prepared to actually discuss it without resorting
to infractions and ridiculous threats of banning. I applaud that.

I suppose the point is that these so called poor countries keep producing athletes that we in Ireland could not dream of producing, yet many of them can do a lot of their work because it is countries like Ireland who are directly and indirectly helping them.

Take out all the aid and assistance and then see how good these athletes are?
Let the Kenyans look after themselves and then maybe training every hour
of the day gets a little more difficult.

Say all you like, but when your country is receiving financial aid and considerable aid, it does benefit and not just the obvious benefits. It ripples down and down that chain are
athletes.

Cubans for example are considered poor by some, yet these produce the best boxers on the planet. Why? Well, because these fighters are "PRO" fighters in the amateur game and have been for years. The authorities look after them immensely.

And those in poverty, sure Ireland and others will look after that.
This is my point. These athletes are at a distinct advantage

No jobs, no money troubles etc, juts train train train.

Michael Carruth and Irish fighters had to earn a living first, then train.
Now, who's at an advantage here?

Pherekydes

dna_leri wrote: »

Is there a different rule for mods, why is this thread not shut down?

Why shut it down? Answer his charges (as is being done) with honesty, logic and fact.

He seemed to be implying that Kenyan runners can't be starving (or at least hungry) because they're so good:

And we're being told they are starving!

But in fact they are so good because they are hungry, not in spite of it.

Also, we know from many well known examples that many Kenyan runners go home and farm for the several months during the track off-season. John Ngugi was the most famous example.

ecoli

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=456005

Gitahi says Kenyan running is “Kalenjin running.” Kenya has many world class runners. Most of them belong to the Kalenjin tribe, an ethnic group that makes up 10 percent of the population. The Kalenjins live throughout Kenya’s western highlands but Kenyan running is centered in Iten, a farming town of 3,000 overlooking the Great Rift Valley. Iten is a magnet for runners who come to Kenya to train.

This area is self support itself through Running tourism and faming with very little aid being given as many of these are considered above the poverty line along with 43% of the population. As such aid is minimalin these areas

Clum

walshb wrote: »

Take out all the aid and assistance and then see how good these athletes are?
Let the Kenyans look after themselves and then maybe training every hour
of the day gets a little more difficult.

A big proportion of the Kenyan athletes are members of the Kenyan military and that's a full time job for them. Paul Tergat, former world record holder for the marathon was a member of the Kenyan air force.

Even the world's fastest marathoner works for a living. Haile Gebrselassie owns a real estate company which builds houses, schools, etc. He trains in the morning, goes to work for the day and trains again in the evening after work.

These athletes do work, sometimes they get to earn more by winning marathons too.

dna_leri

Pherekydes wrote: »

Why shut it down? Answer his charges (as is being done) with honesty, logic and fact.
...
But in fact they are so good because they are hungry, not in spite of it.

I won't answer his charges because I do not think they deserve to be taken seriously, theyare just to provoke a response.

However I am sure you seriously believe that Kenyan marathon runners are so good because they are hungry - but that's not even logical. If it were, we would also have top endurance athletes from India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, DR Congo. It is much more likely to be due to genetics, culture and training.

Mick Rice

My own experience of this topic is through my friend Lezan Kimutai. I got to know Lezan through the Connemara and Dublin Marathons and other friends of his that are involved in those races. Lezan is a fantastic runner but by elite international standards is probably never going to be 'top rank'. He was good enough however to win the Dublin Marathon a few years back and he set a course record in the process. Lezan is just an ordinary 'bloke' like many who post here but he just happens to live with a very different ecconomic reality than most of us have to. When Lezan and his wife and children have no food they don't eat and when the 'proverbial' hits the Kenyan political fan they are usually in the front line.

Although Lezan lives in a country that gets ecconomic aid from more wealthy countries that abstract notion has absolutely no impact on his day to day life. Aid is generally directed to those who can't feed, cloth or house themselves and, although it's a major struggle for himself and his wife to do so, they have just about been able to manage it so far. For Lezan and his family Western aid to Kenya is something they know happens but they also know that it doesn't happen to them. Western aid doesn't help him train. It doesn't buy him food or shoes and it doesn't educate his son or daughter. I suppose it's a bit like the bank bailouts here in that there's a lot of money being spent by government but the ordinary person doesn't benefit directly at all.

After winning Dublin Lezan invested the modest winnings in building houses or shacks on some land at home and also in building a school for his community where his wife now works as a teacher. Every time Lezan manages to win a few bob at a race they build an extra schoolroom. The last two year's racing in Connemara have built two extra classrooms. When the political trouble erupted in Kenya two years ago all of the shacks/houses he had built were burned to the ground and he was left penniless and homeless. Later the house he was staying in was attacked by a mob and he told me that only for the fact that he had an old battered car to bundle his wife and children into, that they would all have been killed where they stood.

What few people realise is that Lezan and many runners like him have very limited opportunities to race for money. They need both the assistance of an agent and an invitation from an overseas race director to even get to a start line, both of which are almost impossible to get for most Kenyan runners. They also need cash up front to pay for travel visas that can cost hundreds of US dollars. They need resources to travel internally in Kenya to make flights to Europe or America which they often don't have. When Lezan's agent tells an RD in Europe that they should invite Lezan to a race it's often an impossible deal to make. He's coming towards the end of his career and isn't likely to run 2:04 any time soon. Lezan might race for cash perhaps once or twice a year and he may or may not place well at those races, in many ways it's a throw of the dice whether he has money to bring home or not. This is his only occupation.

As with all professions there are a few Kenyan superstars that will make good money for themselves, meet promoters and agents for a few short years, but these are the exception. Even in these cases many of the superstars end up back in the grip of desperate poverty within a couple of years of retirement as they don't know how to handle the money and sometimes fall prey to less than scrupulous agents.

For Lezan and many, many, many more like him Western aid to Kenya has absolutely no bearing on their lives or their athletics. The vast majority of athletes who have ever earned cash for running are classified at home as being amongst the lucky few and, no matter how poor they are compared with a western runner, they wouldn't be in line for any aid. Most are dirt poor and run solely as a way to survive. The lucky ones get to train 130 miles a week for a chance to compete against other very desperate people for a remote chance to earn a very modest income.

If you genuinely believe that Kenyan runners might be at an unfair advantage over western runners because of the aid their nations recieve, consider that the European Union and the German taxpayer has been pumping countless millions of Euro into the Irish economy for the last thirty years and ask by how much it has improved your own running.

thirtyfoot

Mick Rice wrote: »

My own experience of this topic is through my friend Lezan Kimutai. I got to know Lezan through the Connemara and Dublin Marathons and other friends of his that are involved in those races. Lezan is a fantastic runner but by elite international standards is probably never going to be 'top rank'. He was good enough however to win the Dublin Marathon a few years back and he set a course record in the process. Lezan is just an ordinary 'bloke' like many who post here but he just happens to live with a very different ecconomic reality than most of us have to. When Lezan and his wife and children have no food they don't eat and when the 'proverbial' hits the Kenyan political fan they are usually in the front line.

Although Lezan lives in a country that gets ecconomic aid from more wealthy countries that abstract notion has absolutely no impact on his day to day life. Aid is generally directed to those who can't feed, cloth or house themselves and, although it's a major struggle for himself and his wife to do so, they have just about been able to manage it so far. For Lezan and his family Western aid to Kenya is something they know happens but they also know that it doesn't happen to them. Western aid doesn't help him train. It doesn't buy him food or shoes and it doesn't educate his son or daughter. I suppose it's a bit like the bank bailouts here in that there's a lot of money being spent by government but the ordinary person doesn't benefit directly at all.

After winning Dublin Lezan invested the modest winnings in building houses or shacks on some land at home and also in building a school for his community where his wife now works as a teacher. Every time Lezan manages to win a few bob at a race they build an extra schoolroom. The last two year's racing in Connemara have built two extra classrooms. When the political trouble erupted in Kenya two years ago all of the shacks/houses he had built were burned to the ground and he was left penniless and homeless. Later the house he was staying in was attacked by a mob and he told me that only for the fact that he had an old battered car to bundle his wife and children into, that they would all have been killed where they stood.

What few people realise is that Lezan and many runners like him have very limited opportunities to race for money. They need both the assistance of an agent and an invitation from an overseas race director to even get to a start line, both of which are almost impossible to get for most Kenyan runners. They also need cash up front to pay for travel visas that can cost hundreds of US dollars. They need resources to travel internally in Kenya to make flights to Europe or America which they often don't have. When Lezan's agent tells an RD in Europe that they should invite Lezan to a race it's often an impossible deal to make. He's coming towards the end of his career and isn't likely to run 2:04 any time soon. Lezan might race for cash perhaps once or twice a year and he may or may not place well at those races, in many ways it's a throw of the dice whether he has money to bring home or not. This is his only occupation.

As with all professions there are a few Kenyan superstars that will make good money for themselves, meet promoters and agents for a few short years, but these are the exception. Even in these cases many of the superstars end up back in the grip of desperate poverty within a couple of years of retirement as they don't know how to handle the money and sometimes fall prey to less than scrupulous agents.

For Lezan and many, many, many more like him Western aid to Kenya has absolutely no bearing on their lives or their athletics. The vast majority of athletes who have ever earned cash for running are classified at home as being amongst the lucky few and, no matter how poor they are compared with a western runner, they wouldn't be in line for any aid. Most are dirt poor and run solely as a way to survive. The lucky ones get to train 130 miles a week for a chance to compete against other very desperate people for a remote chance to earn a very modest income.

If you genuinely believe that Kenyan runners might be at an unfair advantage over western runners because of the aid their nations recieve, consider that the European Union and the German taxpayer has been pumping countless millions of Euro into the Irish economy for the last thirty years and ask by how much it has improved your own running.

Great post and gives a real insight with real names and real examples.

Hard Worker

Mick, you forgot to mention the "aid" that Lezan gets every year - the second hand shoes that you collect for him.
The shoes are a great asset to Lezan's community and are the only "aid" he or his community have ever received from Ireland.
When Lezan first came to Ireland to run the Dublin Marathon, he was working with Kenya Railways. He also had a small plot with some maize which his then pregnant wife Clare had to look after while he was away. The reason Lezan is a decent runner is because he works hard, makes sacrifices and lives in Eldoret at altitude. It has nothing to do with aid from Ireland.
Also, the Kenyans don't like to be considered a third world country. Kenya is actually a fairly wealthy nation. The fact that not all it's people see the wealth is political and possibly down to corruption.

Pherekydes

Great post and great insight, Mick.

Hard Worker

Just a brief update on Lezan Kimutai:
He ran 28.59 for the 10000 metres in Eldoret ( altitude ) at the weekend and will now represent his province in the National trials in Kasarani, Nairobi.
He will also be coming back to Dublin in October to run in the Dublin Marathon.