BNP Protest

Modo_09

Just saw the BNP leader getting pelted with eggs. Its a shame they threw eggs at him. The chanting of "Nazi Scum" would have stopped the speech anyway.

wes

Yeah, they were out of order with the eggs.

They should have instead showed the BNP up for the fools they are, by exposing there policies and there racism.

Modo_09

He then goes and shows up to sky news with his egg stained suit, like people should be feeling sorry for him. They are getting so much publicity from this. They are are on all the news websites today.

turgon

Everyone has the right to free speech, despite how ridiculous their views.

The irony here is that these egg throwers are the very ones acting like Nazis by curtailing views foreign to their own.

Liam Byrne

turgon wrote: »

Everyone has the right to free speech, despite how ridiculous their views.

Erm, ever heard of laws relating to "incitement to hatred" or "incitement to violence"

Like all "rights", they come (or at least should come) with responsibility to use them properly.

Pygmalion

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Erm, ever heard of laws relating to "incitement to hatred" or "incitement to violence"

Like all "rights", they come (or at least should come) with responsibility to use them properly.

And it's not up to an egg-throwing mob to decide how the rights should be used.

I'm happy a group were willing to go and protest, point out (rightfully) that the BNP are "Nazi Scum", but throwing eggs at the man to disrupt his speech just gives him the high ground to claim that his opponents are criminals.

Nodin

Pygmalion wrote: »

And it's not up to an egg-throwing mob to decide how the rights should be used.

I'm happy a group were willing to go and protest, point out (rightfully) that the BNP are "Nazi Scum", but throwing eggs at the man to disrupt his speech just gives him the high ground to claim that his opponents are criminals.

Yes...I'm in two minds on this one, caused primarily by the fact that he is the closest fit to "nazi scum" to be targeted by the insult in recent years. On the other hand Tony Blair deserved that treatment and far harsher over the Iraq war but didn't get it, so it gives Griffin the appearance of being treated over harshly.....

Tis aw a muddle.....

Boston

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Erm, ever heard of laws relating to "incitement to hatred" or "incitement to violence"

Like all "rights", they come (or at least should come) with responsibility to use them properly.

Ever hear of due process? If he's inciting hatred then he should be prosecuted in a court of law, not by mob rule.

lostexpectation

when is he not inciting hatred?

Can'tseeme

I agree the protest would have been better without the egg. But didn't John Prescott get hit with an egg during an election campaign and everyone thought he deserved it? I kinda feel theirs a strange, over sympathetic reaction to it. That Nick Griffin is taking full advantage of.

Boston

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I agree the protest would have been better without the egg. But didn't John Prescott get hit with an egg during an election campaign and everyone thought he deserved it? I kinda feel theirs a strange, over sympathetic reaction to it. That Nick Griffin is taking full advantage of.

I remember that, everyone thought prescott was a legend.

Acacia

As much as I hate the BNP, I don't think the egg throwing was right. Like it or not (and I don't), they were democratically elected and have to be treated as such.
The BNP need to be actively engaged in a sensible debate to show up their ridiculous policies for what they are.

Over-emotional reactions like this will just backfire, because Griffin comes off as some sort of repressed hero.

Which is the last thing the protesters would want.

Can'tseeme

Acacia wrote: »

As much as I hate the BNP, I don't think the egg throwing was right. Like it or not (and I don't), they were democratically elected and have to be treated as such.
The BNP need to be actively engaged in a sensible debate to show up their ridiculous policies for what they are.

Over-emotional reactions like this will just backfire, because Griffin comes off as some sort of repressed hero.

Which is the last thing the protesters would want.

I agree with that and it is something that I don't think the mainstream media has done well enough. The interviews I've seen over the last few days with the BNP have been pretty poor. They seem to be struggling to pin them down to make sure they can't worm their way around the question.

Watching Channel 4 news yesterday, Krishnan Guru Murthy asked Brons, has any asian and black people made a worthy contribution to British society. He struggled to answer, then mumbled something about "they'd made certain benefits, yes". Typical evasive answer but he wasn't made to expalin that comment , he just moved on to the next question.

Can'tseeme

Boston wrote: »

I remember that, everyone thought prescott was a legend.

It was a crackin' gab from Prezzie:P

Point is no one really gave a feck he got hit with an egg. I'm sure I've heard of other politicians being hit with a egg of having something thrown at them without much sympathy.

Acacia

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I agree with that and it is something that I don't think the mainstream media has did well enough. The interviews I've seen over the last few days with the BNP have been pretty poor. They seem to be struggling to pin them done to make sure they can't worm their way around thew question.

Watching Channel 4 news yesterday, Krishnan Guru Murthy asked Brons, has any asian and black people made a worthy contribution to British society. He struggled to answer, then mumbled something about "they'd made certain benefits, yes". Typical evasive answer but he wasn't made to expalin that comment , he just moved on to the next question.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.They should be held accountable for every ridiculous remark they make and made to explain them. Maybe people will see them for what they really are.

asdasd

pictures here

riptide

As long as their scum baggery stays away from here I'll be happy.

avalon68

I just watched the video clip of the incident and Griffin is smiling away in it. This UAF group are giving the BNP exactly what they want - publicity, and tbh the UAF leader came across like an idiot on channel 4 news tonight.These tactics are ridiculous - the best way to deal with the BNP is to let them debate. They have come across as total idiots in every clip Ive seen of them so far, so im sure politicians from other parties could run rings around them in intelligent debate.

Rb

asdasd wrote: »

pictures here

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

electrogrimey

I didn't hear any complaints when eggs were thrown at the Bank of Ireland EGM I don't think the incident "playing into the hands of the BNP" really matters, as a party would need much more than a sympathy vote to get more than a few strays elected. It is interesting to note that there are never any protests at hard-left meetings etc. though...

Guy:Incognito

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

Thats the first thing I noticed tbh.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

'Cus loike, we haaaaaave to protest against these evil people', for they will achieve a lot....

markopantelic

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

Yeah like that Sophie Scholl :rolleyes:, sure why dont they just let the BNP in and what a wonderful day it would be, oh by the way trailerparkboy you are some gob****e, these people are the kind who are great humans, you are a failure of humanity a disgrace to humankind.

amacachi

The only thing that worries me about the BNP is if they show up on a political show and the other parties are caught off-guard. I mean sometimes watching Question Time on BBC the reps the parties send have no debating skills whatsoever, and though it shouldn't take much to show the BNP up, I wouldn't have too much confidence in a lot of them.

Also, meh about the egg thing.

Rb

SteKelly wrote:

Thats the first thing I noticed tbh.

Jabari Icy Granola wrote: »

'Cus loike, we haaaaaave to protest against these evil people', for they will achieve a lot....

Indeed. I particularly liked the one with a bunch of white, middle class people (mainly studenty types) and a black guy on a megaphone. "Look! Look! We have a black guy and he objects! He f**king objects!"

I may be wrong but surely there are more than enough non-white, non-middle class people who the BNP "target" that could have formed a protest, as opposed to leaving it to a bunch of liberal kids with PC ideals.

markopantelic wrote: »

Yeah like that Sophie Scholl :rolleyes:, sure why dont they just let the BNP in and what a wonderful day it would be,

A small protest comprising mainly of white, middle class college students will do nothing, it will in no way keep the BNP "out". Pelting them with eggs does nothing. Yet, these protesters couldn't even realise that.

markopentalic wrote:

oh by the way trailerparkboy you are some gob****e, these people are the kind who are great humans, you are a failure of humanity a disgrace to humankind.

Bravo.

donaghs

electrogrimey wrote: »

I didn't hear any complaints when eggs were thrown at the Bank of Ireland EGM I don't think the incident "playing into the hands of the BNP" really matters, as a party would need much more than a sympathy vote to get more than a few strays elected. It is interesting to note that there are never any protests at hard-left meetings etc. though...

I don't think there was a chance to have a serious debate at the BoI EGM. It was a fait accompli and the small shareholders will never have any chance to debate with the management. On the other hand politics is full of opportunity for debate.

I'd love to know why so many people voted BNP. I wouldn't, but it's something that needs to be looked at. Throwing eggs won't help. As regards iniciting violence, the BNP present a law-abiding public image and I don't recall them ever publically trying to incite violence.

djpbarry

Acacia wrote: »

The BNP need to be actively engaged in a sensible debate to show up their ridiculous policies for what they are.

I’d be reluctant to engage a BNP supporter in debate for the same reason I would be reluctant to engage a creationist in debate.

Rb wrote: »

I particularly liked the one with a bunch of white, middle class people (mainly studenty types) and a black guy on a megaphone. "Look! Look! We have a black guy and he objects! He f**king objects!"

I may be wrong but surely there are more than enough non-white, non-middle class people who the BNP "target" that could have formed a protest, as opposed to leaving it to a bunch of liberal kids with PC ideals.


A small protest comprising mainly of white, middle class college students will do nothing, it will in no way keep the BNP "out". Pelting them with eggs does nothing. Yet, these protesters couldn't even realise that.

Issues?

You seem to have been blessed with Nick Griffin’s ability to tell an individual’s background simply by looking at them?

Scofflaw

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

Probably because you have an awful lot of prejudices, and are never surprised when they are confirmed in your own eyes.

regards,
Scofflaw

Jip

So what's the story here then, you can only be black, brown, yellow etc to protest against a racist party ?

getz

donaghs wrote: »

I don't think there was a chance to have a serious debate at the BoI EGM. It was a fait accompli and the small shareholders will never have any chance to debate with the management. On the other hand politics is full of opportunity for debate.

I'd love to know why so many people voted BNP. I wouldn't, but it's something that needs to be looked at. Throwing eggs won't help. As regards iniciting violence, the BNP present a law-abiding public image and I don't recall them ever publically trying to incite violence.

most if not all BNP supporters, come from northern cities with high muslim population.these northern cities [i lived in one 2 years ago] have no go areas ,the muslims live close together because of fear, the young both asian and white at times start trouble just for kicks,the older residents are to scared to go out at night. what makes matters worse is that the authorities [police and the local council]seem never to be even handed, often frightened to be called racist-for instance last year in my old town ,on st georges day the town hall always used to put up the st george flag,this year they dident because quote;it may upset the muslim population, yet they had the pakistani flag flying on the town hall on pakistani independence day, no christmas tree or christmas lights last year because of we do not want to upset the muslim population --now i know for a start most of this [middle class white perception] insults any muslim, they never felt threatened ,but the old english dear dose and this leads to a fertile area for racists like the BNP-that is why the BNP was elected from that area

ShooterSF

djpbarry wrote: »

I’d be reluctant to engage a BNP supporter in debate for the same reason I would be reluctant to engage a creationist in debate.

You don't do it to change their mind. You do it to show the rediculousness of their claims to others.

Boston

Rb wrote: »

Indeed. I particularly liked the one with a bunch of white, middle class people (mainly studenty types) and a black guy on a megaphone. "Look! Look! We have a black guy and he objects! He f**king objects!"

I may be wrong but surely there are more than enough non-white, non-middle class people who the BNP "target" that could have formed a protest, as opposed to leaving it to a bunch of liberal kids with PC ideals.

A small protest comprising mainly of white, middle class college students will do nothing, it will in no way keep the BNP "out". Pelting them with eggs does nothing. Yet, these protesters couldn't even realise that.

Bravo.

I think the reason these "white middle class" types are protesting, is because the BNP claims to speak and act in their name. If I claim to speak for you and you never challenge that assertion, then the perception will be that I do.

getz wrote: »

most if not all BNP supporters, come from northern cities with high muslim population.these northern cities [i lived in one 2 years ago] have no go areas ,the muslims live close together because of fear, the young both asian and white at times start trouble just for kicks,the older residents are to scared to go out at night. what makes matters worse is that the authorities [police and the local council]seem never to be even handed, often frightened to be called racist-for instance last year in my old town ,on st georges day the town hall always used to put up the st george flag,this year they dident because quote;it may upset the muslim population, yet they had the pakistani flag flying on the town hall on pakistani independence day, no christmas tree or christmas lights last year because of we do not want to upset the muslim population --now i know for a start most of this [middle class white perception] insults any muslim, they never felt threatened ,but the old english dear dose and this leads to a fertile area for racists like the BNP-that is why the BNP was elected from that area

Good post and points. You can't fight racism by giving one culture prominence over the other. It one of those areas where perceptions are extremely important.

djpbarry

ShooterSF wrote: »

You don't do it to change their mind. You do it to show the rediculousness of their claims to others.

Granted, but as the saying goes, you should never argue with an idiot, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Boston

djpbarry wrote: »

Granted, but as the saying goes, you should never argue with an idiot, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So your answer to voice an argument against them? To never try and convince people they are wrong? Is it any wonder then that they are growing in support.

djpbarry

Boston wrote: »

So your answer to voice an argument against them? To never try and convince people they are wrong? Is it any wonder then that they are growing in support.

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

dave-higgz

From the BNP website:

NORTHERN IRELAND - an end to sectarianism!

Britain has shamefully allowed the terrorists in N.I. to come close to winning when the IRA could have been destroyed years ago.
Government weakness has led to hundreds of deaths and given those same terrorists a share in government.
We would end all attempts to force the people of Northern Ireland to accept foreign interference in their affairs and deal with terrorism - from whatever side - once and for all.
No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms should be allowed to enter government. We would abolish state-supported segregation in education. In the long run, we wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles

tut tut tut no fada on Éire!!
Secondly, this federation idea is quite suspect. It appears they don't like our independence!!

Dannyboy83

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

By Force.

MikeC101

Idiotic action by the protestors.

Was just listening to one of the protestors explain it - she was asked about her stance on freedom of speech and she said "We don't believe in freedom of speech for fascists."

It's very very easy to support freedom of speech when it's something you agree with, the real test is if you'll support it when something you don't agree with is being said.

The BNP likes to rant about the sinister "far left" that want to censor them and stop them making their point, media bias etc etc, and what do these egg throwing morons do? That's right, try to censor them and not allow them to speak.

asdasd

How does one reason with the unreasonable?

1) Try and work out why 1 million people vote for an unreasonable party.
2) Prove their fears wrong, or
3) Fix what is troubling them.

Boston

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

Ah you see it doesn't start off irrational. All these groups always have a public fact which sounds quiet rational and logical. Every facist government in history has started off by blanketing themselves in rational, logical arguments. Take the points getz raised, they sound very reasonable, if a BNP candidate came along and assured me that by electing him he would ensure there was a christmas tree in the town, that my flag could continue to be raised over town hall, that he would stop the asian gangs terrorising my neighbourhood, I'd be tempted. Especially if theres no one pointing out the flaws.

In order for the BNP to achieve the results they've achieved, they have to be getting support from more then the usual core bigot element. They must be turning ordinary decent people.

dsmythy

djpbarry wrote: »

Again, I take your point. However, how does one argue against what is quite clearly irrational hatred? How does one reason with the unreasonable?

It's not about changing their minds it's about changing the perceptions other people have of them. Right now they look like victims. That's not the perception you want people to have of them. Debate them and show how wrong they are to others.

These violent protesters should respect democracy more. The BNP got the votes this time. Now they have their heads over the parapet. They can be debated and defeated. The issues that caused people to vote for them can be dealt with by more moderate parties presuming they are willing to do so. Come next election day the BNP will lose their seats. Welcome to democracy.

CerebralCortex

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Erm, ever heard of laws relating to "incitement to hatred" or "incitement to violence"

Like all "rights", they come (or at least should come) with responsibility to use them properly.

As long as it is attack on the idea not the person. I had this very argument today at lunch in work over Dermot Aherne and his handling of the blasphemy law.

Rb

djpbarry wrote: »

Issues?
You seem to have been blessed with Nick Griffin’s ability to tell an individual’s background simply by looking at them?

I wouldn't call it an issue, considering I would fall into the aforementioned demographic and will be a college student in September.

It's more a reflection that the only people who ever seem to "protest" are white, middle class studenty types with liberal ideals, a lack of experience in the "real world" and often shaggy hair/beards.

And a lot of them seem to protest to protest, as though they haven't passed adolescence and need something to give out about.

Merely a reflection, however.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Probably because you have an awful lot of prejudices, and are never surprised when they are confirmed in your own eyes.

regards,
Scofflaw

It does feel good to be right, I must say.

Boston wrote: »

I think the reason these "white middle class" types are protesting, is because the BNP claims to speak and act in their name. If I claim to speak for you and you never challenge that assertion, then the perception will be that I do.

Well, and as I said above, I'm beginning to think that liberal studenty types tend to protest for the sake of protesting.

I had the luck of being in London during the Anti-Israel/Pro-Palestine protests and it was the same demographic who were "up in arms" over the whole thing, although most seemed to be there for the sake of it and/or to have some craic with their mates.

Your explanation certainly is plausible though, however I am noticing somewhat of a trend.

Acacia

Rb wrote: »

Why am I not surprised to see it's a bunch of white, middle class studenty types who are protesting?

You know they're middle class students just by looking at them?

Bravo sir.

Jabari Icy Granola wrote: »

'Cus loike, we haaaaaave to protest against these evil people', for they will achieve a lot....

I'm sure they have good reasons for protesting- perhaps because the BNP are racist scum?

Though I don't agree with the egg-throwing.

djpbarry wrote: »

I’d be reluctant to engage a BNP supporter in debate for the same reason I would be reluctant to engage a creationist in debate.

I definetely see where you're coming from. It does pain me that they must be treated like a legitimate party - but that's democracy.

Though debating with these people is akin to banging your head off the wall repeatedly.

Unfortunately, the other option is to ignore them, in which case , like I said before, they can claim they are being repressed, and can further their claim that there is some sort of liberal conspiracy against the working-class white Briton.:rolleyes:

Rb

Acacia wrote: »

You know they're middle class students just by looking at them?

Bravo sir.

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

Souljacker

Rb wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

I know it's off topic but what excatly makes someone middle class never mind 'look' middle class IYO?

Just wondering.

Acacia

I'm sorry but this is a laughable attempt to put something I've said on par with the words of the BNP.

Good job conveniently forgetting to leave in the "white" part.

Epic fail, good luck to you.

Good job conveniently forgetting to answer my question. How can you tell somebody is middle class and a student just by looking at them?

I didn't 'forget' the white part- it would be silly to ask how you know somebody is white just by looking at them. Though I don't see why being white means you can't protest against the BNP.

Since that was a complete cop out of an answer-

Epic Fail! (:rolleyes:)