New Political Party

daragh.king

Hi all,
I am sure I am not the only one at the moment sick of the current state of affairs in Irish politics. I believe that there is a real need to have another party in Ireland. Our current choices are so limited we can reallisticly either choose FF or FG and then let them choose some other small party which usually has a very small and focased agenda or interest area to prop them up.
What I would love to achieve is a new party with new ideas and new people who have a passion for making Ireland a fairer and better place.
How I would love to see the party work would be people with an interest in a particular area would work together to create a plan that would improve that area. Then the party can mould these together and create a viable plan for improving everybodys life.
I just feel that for too long now teachers and lawyers have been running the country. I am not saying I want no teachers or lawyers just that they should be more focused on their areas of experience.
I would love feed back from people with similar ideas to see how far we could bring this idea.
I soppose I should talk about ideology. I would hope it would be open minded as opposed to the left or right. This would allow the party to explore all options always and reach the best conclusion/ way faward.
Anyways I'll just wait now to see if anyone feels the same. I am fully aware this may sound were strange and impossible to achieve but I honestly think it can be done.

P.S. I know I am not always the most articulate or even best speller but I hope my thoughs for a new party in Irish politics is clear and there are some people interested in making it happen.

Chardee MacDennis

www.piratepartyireland.com

there ya go

ShooterSF

I support the PP. The minister has mentioned the liberals in another thread and there seems to be a holding page on liberals.ie too. People might be realising a need for different parties at last.

Het-Field

ShooterSF wrote: »

I support the PP. The minister has mentioned the liberals in another thread and there seems to be a holding page on liberals.ie too. People might be realising a need for different parties at last.

www.liberals.ie

Gaining support all the time. It wouldnt be a bad movement to back.

turgon

www.liberals.ie is a think-tank not a political party asfaik.

Anyone know anything else about it?

Dr Galen

I got this from Politics.ie

I thought we sent you some information. Did you check your email? If not here it is
__________________________________________________ _________________THE LIBERAL SOCIETY

“Service is the necessary complement of freedom and every right involves a corresponding duty. If free institutions are to work effectively, every citizen must have a sense of moral responsibility towards his fellow men and take an active part in the affairs of the community.”
Oxford Manifesto 1947 – The Liberal International

WHO WE ARE

The Liberal Society is a progressive policy think tank that promotes moderate and liberal values and adapts them to the challenges of the information age. As Liberals we believe absolutely that government is the servant of law-abiding citizens in equal measure. Government derives its power from the people under the constitution which document should require a true separation of powers to ensure a proper system of checks and balances designed to uphold the rights and interests of the whole of society and not to the advantage of local and vested interest.

We believe that Liberalism is dynamic and based on the evolutionary belief in reform designed to enhance the rights of law abiding citizens and their relationship with government. Liberalism is wedded to the political centre, accepting a third way between the politics of the left and right. Liberal thought is based on moderation and understanding, coupled with the belief that the fundamental guarantee of the rights of the citizen is through the observation and enforcement of the law.

OUR MISSION
Our mission is to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to uphold the fundamental values of liberty, equality, justice and civility, and in which no-one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power equally among all citizens, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity.
We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

We believe absolutely that government is the servant of law-abiding citizens in equal measure. Government derives its power from the people under the constitution which document should require a true separation of powers to ensure a proper system of checks and balances designed to uphold the rights and interests of the whole of society and not to the advantage of local and vested interest. We reject the concentration of political power in the hands of the few, believing that only through merit and the promotion of meritocracy can a fair and just society be well and truly founded



OUR GOALS
(a) To promote progressive policies and meritocracy in Irish Society.
(b) To promote constitutional and legislative reform to ensure greater democracy and transparency in our system of government.
(c ) To promote the teaching and learning of Civics, Law and Politics at primary, secondary and third level education.
(d) To promote economic enterprise while ensuring the dignity and rights of employees
(e) To promote civic pride and social responsibility among our fellow citizens.
(f) To promote democracy, the rule of law, respect for individual liberties and the maintenance of a market economy.
(g) To inform, to educate and to stimulate a new generation of young leaders to promote liberal values and progressive policy in our society.

OUR MEMBERS
The Liberal Society was founded on the 29th June 2009 in Potsdam, Germany by a group of Lawyers interested in liberal values, progressive policy and economic reform. Since its foundation, the Society has grown to a hundred and thirty members, with representatives in all the main universities and colleges. The Society is open to citizens of the European Union, and includes members from Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Denmark , France and Slovenia. The Society includes among its membership: lawyers, journalists, economists, academics, creative artists and IT professionals. The Society is funded through individual subscription and all work carried out on behalf of the society is voluntary. The official launch of of the society will take place on the 3rd July 2009.

appears they are less of a party and more of a movement?
__________________

Dr Galen

where's DonegalFella when you need him huh?

turgon

"Watered down liberals", more like it!

mjquinno

that liberial picture reminded me of this

http://gagagu.com/xe/files/attach/images/16556/672/016/buddy_christ.jpg

SalthillGuy

Het-Field wrote: »

www.liberals.ie

Gaining support all the time. It wouldnt be a bad movement to back.

They have just thrown in the towel.
Mr Ganley going back to work... as he put it.

turgon

Liberals does not equal Libertas.

Fr0g

SalthillGuy wrote: »

They have just thrown in the towel.
Mr Ganley going back to work... as he put it.

you're probably thinking of libertas But yes, they appear to be finished.

Permabear

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ShooterSF

I'd agree with nearly all of that Donelgalfella.
A couple of points though on an issue I don't agree with, not that I don't want to but because I don't see it as feasible.
While I'm all for privatization of public industry I would stop at health. Health care should be a non-profit setup with the care of patients not a bank balance as it's priority. I honestly feel this is one area where a socialist approach is preferable.
Speaking of banks if there is no way we can let them fail then maybe they need to be nationalised too. I'm not fond of the idea but it's better than a business that can do as it likes without consequences. They would be the two I'd focus on.

Permabear

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chem

A movement formed in Germany? What could go wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMIzpkbChE :D:D

ShooterSF

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They do struggle and maybe a free-market setup with a combination of free clinics would satisfy me. I guess I'm protective of the poor when it comes to health. I agree though the current system is nothing to sing about

Yes, but a business that is too big to fail, or a business that is owned by the state, is also one that can do as it likes without consequences. That's the problem with nationalizing corporations—it leads to profligacy and waste.

I agree. It would be a last resort to me but seemingly banks are the one industry we can't let fail. It's not a size thing, I'd happily let big businesses fall flat on their face but can we actually let that happen with banks? If they can fail without harm to savers then I'd be fine with letting them. Other than that it's damned if you do damned if you don't and if the govt. is at risk of bailing them in future there should be precautions put in place.

cavedave

There is a guy on the radio at the moment about "direct democracy Ireland". They seem to be the greens but pushing a new voting system.

I wonder where All these new parties stand on the political compass graph?



I am not holding my breath on a futarchy party

Sponge Bob

Very good post Donegalfella.

The problem with any 'sophisticated' party in Ireland is that it will have to deal with the 2200 people in Galway who did THIS the other day .

That post of yours sounds awfully like a PD manifesto , irrespective of its merits .

chem

Hi all.

All I want is a party that will listen. Not tell me what is best for me. I know you cant have a complete understanding of everythin, while in government, but some of the statments made by some TDs lately are just pure misinformation.

I am a sportsman, and have licenced firearms. My house has been checked for security (which I payed to upgrade). I have been vetted by the Gardai. Now my sport is under fire from the government because of gangland crime!!

Criminals dont get licenced guns. Yet I, and fellow shooters are been targeted as the problem. Minister Ahern met with shooting groups, listened to them, then turned around and proposed new laws to ban pistol shooting in Ireland. We also seen one TD say that handguns could be bought online here or over the counter:eek: Thats miles from the truth. Yet laws are made and passed when the facts are not known by the TDs voting on the new laws.

eagle eye

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Very good post Donegalfella.

The problem with any 'sophisticated' party in Ireland is that it will have to deal with the 2200 people in Galway who did THIS the other day .

That post of yours sounds awfully like a PD manifesto , irrespective of its merits .

Whats your point?

I don't know anything about the guy but maybe he has been an exceptional local public servant.

ShooterSF

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats your point?

I don't know anything about the guy but maybe he has been an exceptional local public servant.

Unless his appeal holds up the guy is a criminal. If I robbed a bank tomorrow and ran for election should only my policies be looked at? Or the fact that I am a felon?

And if his appeal doesn't hold up, worse again. Because then he would be guilty and unremorseful (sp?) so what's to stop him re-commiting?

turgon

I agree fully with DF, including his thing about the think-tank. I dont know is there going to be any liberal party in Ireland soon.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That post of yours sounds awfully like a PD manifesto , irrespective of its merits .

So you would think less of these policies just because they were also put forth by the PD's?

mewso

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What about France? Isn't it state run and considered one of the best in the world? Makes me wonder why we didn't look to them for a working model of health care. In fact a party that seeks to examine the best public service systems in the world and get advice and guidance on implementing similar systems where possible would get my vote.

I'm happy to pay higher taxes if I see them being spent wisely but the more I read these boards most seem to favour lower taxes and a survival of the fittest approach to society. No thanks.

The idea that Corporations would behave themselves knowing their Government wouldn't help them out in bad times seems unrealistic to me. Those Enron guys really kept themselves in check knowing they were on their own. Maybe we could remove the minimum wage and age limits on employees and invite Nike to set up a sweat shop here.

Permabear

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turgon

musician wrote: »

I'm happy to pay higher taxes if see them being spent wisely

And theres the qualifying, age old "if." The "if" that has kept Ireland running after its tail for so many decades, getting absolutely nowhere.

Each party promises more "fairness" "equality" and "value for money." But can you show me any time these promises have lived up to our expectations? Instead we get the same wastage, and those in opposition with the same promises. Because people still seek the "if."

The problem is not Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour or the Greens. The problem is government. The problem is these people abuse their power to buy votes.

Government is inefficient. The "if" is never.

eagle eye

ShooterSF wrote: »

Unless his appeal holds up the guy is a criminal. If I robbed a bank tomorrow and ran for election should only my policies be looked at? Or the fact that I am a felon?

And if his appeal doesn't hold up, worse again. Because then he would be guilty and unremorseful (sp?) so what's to stop him re-commiting?

I've no wish to defend the man at all. I'm just questioning somebody saying an electorate in an area are stupid without having full knowledge of his track record. As I said I don't know anything about the guy but maybe since all this came to the public eye he has changed his ways and become a wonderful public servant, and maybe even when you balance this with his history as a public servant he is still miles ahead of the others in his area as a public servant.

The media only tell you that he was found guilty and spent time in jail. They don't tell you anything else about his record as a councillor.

Permabear

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mewso

donegalfella wrote: »

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Fair enough. I was asking not saying. If it's a good model then it's worth looking at. Thats what I'm thinking.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Not for the perpetrators. Pretty harsh times for people wanting their electricity on the west coast of the US though. They can be consoled by the fact that these guys didn't pay attention to the belief that they would behave because they were not protected by the government. You don't think there is a little danger when companies are not regulated in the slightest. Forgive me if I've misunderstood your wish to let business operate freely. Perhaps you would allow some regulation.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah nice dismissal. However I think it's a fair example of how corporations seem to lack a certain shall we say social responsibility. The worker is perhaps devalued a bit by good old Joe's constant use of the word but while it might be a lefty jump to herald disaster for them in the face of a free market I would suggest it's a righty jump to suggest all would be rosy if the pesky working man would just accept that he is working for an important business that will eventually improve his life by improving society.

paddyboy23

how about the dole party there are some very clever people on the dole who could do a good job a lot better than that lot,

Dr Galen

I'd love to see a party who represented the liberal view. When I say this, I mean not only in an economic sense but also in a social fashion.

Government in this country has taken on the role of the great moral protector. Looking out for it's citizens, against all matter of evils! Take for example the gun laws, licencing for selling alcohol, opening hours for pubs and clubs, and this nonsense about blasphemy. For pitys sake why can't they just leave us all alone and stop with the nanny state nonsense.

Economically speaking a lot of what the liberal says, would appeal to me. I, like DF can see no reason for the government to be involved in the provision of a lot of everyday services. Really education is the only thing that I can think of that I'd like some guarantees and stability in. Saying that I'd be open to being convinced on how a non state run system could be run and funded.

Healthcare is possibily the service that we could make the immediate savings on, with I would say, a pretty close to immediate improvement in the patients experience of healthcare in this country.

The Dutch and the French, have become purchasers of healthcare, as opposed to the providers, like our state. In the past, I would also have been like the poster above, concerned about access to healthcare for all, regardless of ability to pay. I would have had concerns about standards of care. Until a) I did some research into other models of healthcare provision and b) i worked in the health services in this country. Both those things opened my eyes pretty quickly to the fact, that there has to be and is a better way of doing things