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Your experience with alternative medicine

  • 08-06-2009 4:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭


    I'm just wondering how many of this forums users have ever tried using alternative medicine. It would be interesting to find out what people have tried and whether or not it has been of benefit to them.

    Personally, I have had hayfever successfully treated with acupuncture, took only four sessions in 2006 and havent had it since. However the largest benefit I have recieved is not being sick once in the past 3 years (bar a 24 hr bug I picked up in Mongolia last year).

    Please feel free to share your experiences, good, bad or indifferent! :)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭ZorbaTehZ


    Saw a homeopathic for my bad dust allergies on the insistence of my mother, saw no change whatsoever after taking quite a number of, what looked like pills of sugar and a recommendation for drinking lots of water. What really annoyed me was that she charged me 60 euros for the "consultation"!

    My aunt is also a homeopathic and gave me recommendations to no avail.

    I know someone through a friend who is a master rieki dojo if that is the term (the same person claims she can charge a mobile phone battery only by touching it) and she went to work on me for back aches, also to no avail. Although, I have no believe whatsoever in these types of treatment so that could have influenced a lot of the outcomes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭taram


    Was prescribed pot marigold for my stomach spasms, worked really well, it's shown to have anti-spasmotic effects (Bashir S, Janbaz KH, Jabeen Q et al. (2006). Studies on spasmogenic and spasmolytic activities of Calendula officinalis flowers. Phytother Res. 20:906-910.) but to be honest the spasms were so bad at the time I would have drank donkey pee to stop them :D

    I take ginger for nausea, always works a treat, and have used herb compresses on my ezcema rather than steriod creams, since I was reacting badly to the creams.

    In terms of general alternative medicine I wouldn't touch 99% of it with a bargepole, either I'm wasting my money, and/or putting myself at risk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    I know plenty of people who have tried homeopathy/herbal remedies without success but at the same time I know twice as many who have got the desired result. The main difference between the two groups is that those who see no benefit usually rely on just one "magic bullet". People that find improvement in their condition generally use multiple healing modalities, with nutrition laying the foundation of their healing "regime". I've seen people with IBS popping homeopathic pills in an attempt to improve their health while continuining to eat junk food and party like they're still in college. When they see no results, they dismiss what they've tried even though they havent REALLY taken control of their health. Proper nutrition is the keystone of health and unless people sort out their diet then there's no point in complaining to that acupuncturist, homeopathist or even your family GP!:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    no such thing as alternative medicine. there's medicine that works, medicine that doesn't and medicine that we don't know how it works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    samson09 wrote: »
    Personally, I have had hayfever successfully treated with acupuncture, took only four sessions in 2006 and havent had it since.

    With respect, i seriously doubt that. Hayfever allergies can disappear spontaneously - it has happened to me.

    A few years ago I was in Bratislava with friends and I got a bad bout of hayfever. Went to a chemist and the pharmacist gave me a packet of what I thought were anti-histamines.

    Within 2 hours I felt horrendous and even had a nose bleed - i've never had such a bad reaction to pollen in my life.

    Went on the net and found out the "medication" was in fact homeopathic *nonsense*.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    eth0_ wrote: »
    With respect, i seriously doubt that. Hayfever allergies can disappear spontaneously - it has happened to me.

    A few years ago I was in Bratislava with friends and I got a bad bout of hayfever. Went to a chemist and the pharmacist gave me a packet of what I thought were anti-histamines.

    Within 2 hours I felt horrendous and even had a nose bleed - i've never had such a bad reaction to pollen in my life.

    Went on the net and found out the "medication" was in fact homeopathic *nonsense*.

    A homeopathic remedy would never have that effect. Only homeopathists can give you a homeopathic remedy, not a pharmacist in a chemist. And yes, believe it or not, the acupuncture did the job!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Carsinian Thau


    ZorbaTehZ wrote: »
    I have no believe whatsoever in these types of treatment so that could have influenced a lot of the outcomes.

    I think you're just being nice by saying that.

    I believe that they don't work because they don't work.

    I honestly believe that homeopathy is the greatest insult to conventional medicine and to describe it as alternative "medicine" is intolerable and a lot of other things that I don't want to type because I'd rather not get banned or infracted.

    I'll admit that I have only limited experience but the whole "water has memory" and "diluting makes it stronger" thing was sufficient to convert me to knowing that it's BS. The "if a substance can mimic the symptoms of a disease then it must be able to cure it" bit is just laughable.

    I don't want to go off topic or get involved in a debate about this with anyone so I'll leave it with: my experience with alternative "medicine" is that it does not work and is a possible danger to patients who deny themselves real treatment by using this crap.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    I went to a homeopathist years ago on the advice of a friend for a chronic gastritis thingy, which wasn't responding well to PPIs at the time.

    Didn't help one bit. But it was nice to have someone chat to me for an hour :D I was struck by how much potential there is for placebo effect, because she kept telling me I'll be feeling much better in about 2 or 3 weeks.

    Eventually admitted defeat. Stuck with the PPIs for another year, and they eventually worked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    samson09 wrote: »
    A homeopathic remedy would never have that effect. Only homeopathists can give you a homeopathic remedy, not a pharmacist in a chemist. And yes, believe it or not, the acupuncture did the job!

    Where did I say the homeopathic "remedy" had the negative effect on me? It was the fact homeopathic remedies are just sugar pills that made my symptoms so bad because they gave me no protection against the pollen that was causing my hayfever.

    And yes, pharmacists can sell homeopathic "remedies", i've seen a few in Ireland selling a selection, even in Boots - you don't need a special qualification to sell snake oil!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    eth0_ wrote: »
    - you don't need a special qualification to sell snake oil!

    C'mon etho, there's no need to be antagonistic. He's asked about people's personal experiences. His was good. Mine was bad. As long as people stick to that question, and we don't stray into the realms of med advice, then all is well with the world.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,532 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Green tea tends to settle my stomach, should I have problems. Also, the attitude that I have regarding wellness goes a long way towards a cure, as opposed to doom and gloom.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭ZorbaTehZ


    eth0_ wrote: »
    With respect, i seriously doubt that. Hayfever allergies can disappear spontaneously - it has happened to me.

    And anecdotal, personal experience means what? Exactly nothing! Your story versus someone else's means exactly nothing, that's the whole point professional qualified medics are trying to make, when someone comes on this forum and says "I saw a seventh son of a seventh son, and now my cancer is gone", the logical, rational person says show me this happening to multiple people in controlled conditions repeatedly, not "Well it did/didn't work for me, ergo it is real/BS"...

    Recount your story here fine, but don't go condemning/confirming something on the basis of a personal story, this goes for medics, and CAM practitioners alike!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Similar to Tallaght01 I've tried a few things for stomach problems which flare up from time to time (apparently I have IBS)

    Green tea helps when things start off and are fairly mild. I also have this tea (i'll check ingredients later) called Stoamch ease. Herbs and spices of an Oriental variety in it. Tastes like crap, can barely manage a cup of the stuff. But, I've found that it works very well. Might that be placebo? Possibily yes, but when I take it, all I want is for the cramps, pain,bloat and "other"symptoms to go away, so placebo effect is fine with me lol. I'll just add, I've been through the medical line of things on this, and nothing has really worked as well, despite high hopes, so I'd wonder why placebo effect didn't work there?

    I use a honey based cream for cold sores, highly effective I've found. I'm aware of a pretty large scale RCT going on at present looking into this products effectiveness compared with zovirex, and the honey stuff on preliminary findings is holding up very well. AFAIK this is being published later this year. Second stage for this will be a study looking at a slightly different products effectiveness against Genital Herpes. WHich could prove very interesting,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    My mother tried all manner of alternative therapies to deal with things like IBS, back pain and the like. Think she found acupuncture okay for some issues but the rest seemed to have no effect at all. Now she seemed to think they were all pretty good (though she once had a crystal/energy type fella into the house and he was too much BS even for her), but I never saw her get any better from any of them.

    She used to pump me full of fish oils, garlic pills, multivitamins and the like to try and help my asthma. But you know what? I quit all that and just stuck to my meds and the only change to my asthma was the general reduction in symptoms some of us seem to get from exiting adolescence. The stuff didn't make my symptoms worse, but it sure didn't help either. Waste of time and money.

    I gave my mum my copy of Bad Science a couple of months ago. I'm hopeful that she'll make a full recovery from woothink.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    I've had some good experiences with a small selection of herbal remedies (echencia for colds, ginger for nausea and similar). Homeopathy I've never touched. Acupuncture I've had, and had some progress for pain but I've never paid for it (and it never did better than paracetamol so I wouldn't be inclined to shell out 50 euro for something a 20 cent pill could do for me), it was a girlfriends father who did it for free for me. Chiropractors I've never even considered visiting, the idea of letting someone do that to my spine makes me feel nervous! I've tried various massage therapies, I've found them relaxing and good for working knots out of muscles but no good for anything else.

    With gastritis I was lucky, PPIs worked off the bat for the most part and at least brought a decent amount of relief. With hay fever I've tried multiple alternative therapies but none has done better than a combination of anti-histamines from my GP tbh. With my bipolar I've never dreamed of trying any alternative medicine because I'm one 4 individual drugs for it at the moment and I'm not going to start taking anything that might affect their functioning. With asthma as a child Ventolin + a steroid inhaler the name of which I've forgotten took care of it for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    ZorbaTehZ wrote: »
    And anecdotal, personal experience means what? Exactly nothing! Your story versus someone else's means exactly nothing, that's the whole point professional qualified medics are trying to make

    I was not using my experience of a pollen allergy disappearing as cast-iron proof that it can happen...

    It is a _fact_ that hayfever allergies can disappear spontaneously: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hay-fever/Pages/Expertview.aspx


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    eth0_ wrote: »
    Where did I say the homeopathic "remedy" had the negative effect on me? It was the fact homeopathic remedies are just sugar pills that made my symptoms so bad because they gave me no protection against the pollen that was causing my hayfever.

    And yes, pharmacists can sell homeopathic "remedies", i've seen a few in Ireland selling a selection, even in Boots - you don't need a special qualification to sell snake oil!


    I wasn't saying they dont sell them, what I meant was they shouldnt sell them (for a start they have no idea how they work).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    eth0_ wrote: »
    I was not using my experience of a pollen allergy disappearing as cast-iron proof that it can happen...

    It is a _fact_ that hayfever allergies can disappear spontaneously: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hay-fever/Pages/Expertview.aspx

    So Maureen Jenkins makes a claim and that means its fact?! With absolutely nothing to back it up? I'm not saying that your claim is incorrect, but as you know, the folks on this forum need the evidence to back up claims such as this one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    samson09 wrote: »
    I wasn't saying they dont sell them, what I meant was they shouldnt sell them (for a start they have no idea how they work).

    But they don't work beyond having a placebo effect which the more pertinent reason why pharmacies shouldn't sell them. People associate pharmacies with conventional medicine and often trust things sold in a pharmacy over things sold anywhere else for fairly rational reasons but this is preyed on when pharmacies start dabbling in things that have no scientific basis for working and no shown effect in scientific studies like homoeopathy.

    Plus for believers in homoeopathy as samson09 states above there normally wouldn't be any homoeopaths working in pharmacies selling them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    samson09 wrote: »
    the folks on this forum need the evidence to back up claims such as this one.

    For someone who just sided with homeopathy, that's an odd thing for you to say :P

    And my saying hayfever can spontaneously disappear is not me making a claim, it's well-accepted FACT.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    I left this thread alone, so that people wold just stick to talking about their experiences with alt medicine.

    Thanks so much for being decent about that :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭DTrotter




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    It all depends where you get your information from. For example, if you look at the research coming from Europe (and in particular Germany), the hogwash in that article you linked to can be discounted.

    E.g.

    Efficacy and safety of isopropanolic black cohosh extract for climacteric symptoms.

    Article Summary:

    Several clinical studies suggest that black cohosh may be effective in climacteric complaints. This clinical trial, which is randomized, multicenter, and doubleblind, compared the effectiveness and tolerability of isopropanolic black cohosh extract in the treatment of climacteric complaints compared to a placebo.
    This study involved 304 patients who were randomly given either 40 mg of isopropanolic black cohosh in tablet form or a placebo. The patients were given the drug or placebo for 12 weeks. To measure effectiveness, the change from baseline on the Menopause Rating Scale I was primarily used. The result of the study was that isopropanolic black cohosh extract was more effective than the placebo depending on time from symptom onset and follicle-stimulating hormone level. The patients who were in the early climacteric phase benefited more from the isopropanolic black cohosh extract than patients in the late climacteric phase. No differences could be found between the black cohosh extract and placebo when it came to adverse events or tolerability. The isopropanolic black cohosh extract used in this study was effective in relieving climacteric symptoms, especially in patients who were in the early climacteric phase.

    Authors:
    Osmers R, Friede M, Liske E, Schnitker J, Freudenstein J, Henneicke-von Zepelin HH.

    Institution:
    Hildesheim General Hospital Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Hildesheim.

    Country of Publication:
    Germany

    Source:
    Obstet Gynecol. 2005 May;105(5):1074-83

    If you spend the time you will find plenty of evidence supporting the use of numerous natural substances. Many studies that fail to find any positive effect for a given herb often fail to use the correct species, give a sufficient dose or allow enough time for results to be seen. There are many ways in which results can be skewed and you can be sure that these are used regularly when natural medicines are being tested.

    E.g. (from the linked article) "Echinacea is an example. After a large study by a top virologist found it didn't help colds, its fans said the wrong one of the plant's nine species had been tested".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭DrIndy


    I have used Gingko Biloba coming up to exams and in fact found it very helpful (whether placebo or not - reckon it works). I take a multivitamin tablet if I am going through a tough time in work and am eating less than healthy food.

    I have used echinecea but don't know if it really helped or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    samson09 wrote: »
    It all depends where you get your information from. For example, if you look at the research coming from Europe (and in particular Germany), the hogwash in that article you linked to can be discounted.

    E.g.

    Efficacy and safety of isopropanolic black cohosh extract for climacteric symptoms.

    Article Summary:

    Several clinical studies suggest that black cohosh may be effective in climacteric complaints. This clinical trial, which is randomized, multicenter, and doubleblind, compared the effectiveness and tolerability of isopropanolic black cohosh extract in the treatment of climacteric complaints compared to a placebo.
    This study involved 304 patients who were randomly given either 40 mg of isopropanolic black cohosh in tablet form or a placebo. The patients were given the drug or placebo for 12 weeks. To measure effectiveness, the change from baseline on the Menopause Rating Scale I was primarily used. The result of the study was that isopropanolic black cohosh extract was more effective than the placebo depending on time from symptom onset and follicle-stimulating hormone level. The patients who were in the early climacteric phase benefited more from the isopropanolic black cohosh extract than patients in the late climacteric phase. No differences could be found between the black cohosh extract and placebo when it came to adverse events or tolerability. The isopropanolic black cohosh extract used in this study was effective in relieving climacteric symptoms, especially in patients who were in the early climacteric phase.

    Authors:
    Osmers R, Friede M, Liske E, Schnitker J, Freudenstein J, Henneicke-von Zepelin HH.

    Institution:
    Hildesheim General Hospital Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Hildesheim.

    Country of Publication:
    Germany

    Source:
    Obstet Gynecol. 2005 May;105(5):1074-83

    If you spend the time you will find plenty of evidence supporting the use of numerous natural substances. Many studies that fail to find any positive effect for a given herb often fail to use the correct species, give a sufficient dose or allow enough time for results to be seen. There are many ways in which results can be skewed and you can be sure that these are used regularly when natural medicines are being tested.

    E.g. (from the linked article) "Echinacea is an example. After a large study by a top virologist found it didn't help colds, its fans said the wrong one of the plant's nine species had been tested".


    Well the most glaring error in the article, to me anyway, is the emphasis on the studies they did or the meta-studies they did. The effectiveness of a treatment can only be judged by multiple large well designed meta studies that take into account trial design as well as trial results. One study doesn't prove anything etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    It’s useful for clinical trials to publish the actual change from baseline after treatment, otherwise it's hard to tell if there was an effect or not. They must have forgotten that salient information being too busy with their subgroup analyses, which we all know are very reliable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    2Scoops wrote: »
    It’s useful for clinical trials to publish the actual change from baseline after treatment, otherwise it's hard to tell if there was an effect or not. They must have forgotten that salient information being too busy with their subgroup analyses, which we all know are very reliable.

    See, samson. This is why we don't want you to just cut and paste, especially if it's an actual trial, as opposed to a review article.

    Just because something is published does NOT mean it's of good quality.

    Even just give us a few lines about whether you think the study is of a good quality or not. That's what you need to do in here. I don't know a lot about the long term illness forum, but it's not as scientifically orientated, so you might want to try posting some of your stuff there.

    Fot those of you who want to join samson's debate about the creation of an alternative medicine forum, you can find a thread in the forums section here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055576912


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Stepherunie


    I've had acupuncture on a bad shoulder injury which did work on it. But in saying that it was a case of releasing tension in it and was done as part of a physiotherapy session so it's six of one half dozen of the other as to whether or not it was the physio of specifically the acupuncture that sorted it out.

    And my aunt was prescribed starflower oil following a blow to the breast to help with the pain after no painkillers worked. She was a nurse and said herself she was fairly sceptical about it working but it did seem to work for her.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    On the homopathic stuff I don't rate it at all. However, when I'm training hard I have to admit that arnica works well for DOMs or brusing if I have taken a few slaps in training.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭ani_mal


    I tried natural clinic in Navan,
    I was complaining with stomach pain, so went there spent more then 100 Euro for two bottles of something..
    I didn't work at all, first of all my problem was caused by my spine and this amazing healer didn't borther to check that at all. I also got a foot massage what I found was poor quality.

    Once before that, I went to this place in Blanch shopping center (chinees?) and I was't informed about all costs of the visit and acupuncture. They mix you up or I wasn't paying attention again?
    anyways, after that they almost "coursed me" for not buying mixture of theirs wonderful herbs which was like 80 Euro last year, and you need to buy 3-4 times.


    I also tried chiropractor and found it very good, but disks are popping out anyways so I said enough. visits were 40Euro,. or sometimes emergency (free)
    I found this guy professional and nice.

    Anyone know good acupuncture place in co. Meath?
    or good energy healer (preferably natural talented not tought)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭PoleStar


    I hope people will find my story interesting.

    We have heard pro and con stories and many saying that its nice to have someone nice to listen to you for an hour and make you feel good about yourself, even if it doesnt work, and reference to placebo effect.

    I am now a doctor of modern medicine, and am one of those who strongly dislike the term "alternative" medicine. There is medicine that works and medicine that doesnt work.

    Believers in homeopathy who say to me "just because you dont know how it works, doesnt mean it doesnt work" are talking cr@p. There are plenty of modern medical treatments which we do not really understand how they work, but that doesnt mean we dont use them, we do.

    Anyway, when I was younger (less than 10 years old), my parents got a bit tired of my frequent hospital admissions due to asthma (3 per year on average) and gave the alternative route a go. I was sent to a total of 3 different "alternative" physicians to try and improve my lot. Not a jot of difference did it make. I always look back at those times and think to myself that I was a rather good test subject. As a child, I had not idea what alternative medicine was, or what the placebo effect was. So all that was tested was the efficacy of the treatments on offer. I wasnt even ABLE to be a skeptic!

    What I do remember is that my parents spent a lot of money and were desperate to try anything. This is where the alternative physician fits in. They try to give some hope of cure where modern medicine fails (and frequently it does). And that is their market. People with chronic conditions (IBS, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia etc) for which modern medicine can keep symptoms at bay but is not a perfect treatment. People who will try anything to make themselves even a bit better. And of course, people who are willing to pay for this.

    Luckily I suffered no adverse consequences and I dint mind the whole experience at all at the time. However, I do now looking back, see that my parents were desperate at the time, and would try anything. They wasted a lot of money and hope in trying to cure their sick child.

    I always find it ironic that people bitch about paying 50 euro to a GP, who at the minimum has spent 10 years training in his/her field and yet are happy to spend double that to have a chat with a naturopath and come out with a little vial of water.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,644 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    PoleStar wrote: »
    There are plenty of modern medical treatments which we do not really understand how they work, but that doesnt mean we dont use them, we do.

    Never was there a truer word spoken. Lithium has been used to treat bipolar since the late nineteenth century and even though they have a fairly good idea of what physical effects it has, i.e. how it affects neurotransmitter levels etc, they still don't have much of an idea as to why this works as a mood stabiliser, and much of the rest of the pharmacy options for mental illness are similarly ill-understood in terms of why they work. We know what they do, we've no idea as to why that brings about the results that it does.

    It comes back to the scientific method, as with physics and the other sciences, you can quite easily prove that X affects Y in a certain way and still be left with no clue as to why X affects Y that way or through what mechanism this is done. Many of the fundamental relationships in physics (at a human scale) were known long before there was any inkling of an idea as to why these relationships were there and what underlying system was behind them. Similar to how today we don't know what causes "mass" in particle physics, we've a theory as to what causes it, the Higgs Boson, but no one's seen one yet so we've got no proof. That still doesn't mean that any sane physicists out there don't believe that things have mass..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    PoleStar wrote: »
    I hope people will find my story interesting.

    We have heard pro and con stories and many saying that its nice to have someone nice to listen to you for an hour and make you feel good about yourself, even if it doesnt work, and reference to placebo effect.

    I am now a doctor of modern medicine, and am one of those who strongly dislike the term "alternative" medicine. There is medicine that works and medicine that doesnt work.

    Believers in homeopathy who say to me "just because you dont know how it works, doesnt mean it doesnt work" are talking cr@p. There are plenty of modern medical treatments which we do not really understand how they work, but that doesnt mean we dont use them, we do.

    Anyway, when I was younger (less than 10 years old), my parents got a bit tired of my frequent hospital admissions due to asthma (3 per year on average) and gave the alternative route a go. I was sent to a total of 3 different "alternative" physicians to try and improve my lot. Not a jot of difference did it make. I always look back at those times and think to myself that I was a rather good test subject. As a child, I had not idea what alternative medicine was, or what the placebo effect was. So all that was tested was the efficacy of the treatments on offer. I wasnt even ABLE to be a skeptic!

    What I do remember is that my parents spent a lot of money and were desperate to try anything. This is where the alternative physician fits in. They try to give some hope of cure where modern medicine fails (and frequently it does). And that is their market. People with chronic conditions (IBS, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia etc) for which modern medicine can keep symptoms at bay but is not a perfect treatment. People who will try anything to make themselves even a bit better. And of course, people who are willing to pay for this.

    Luckily I suffered no adverse consequences and I dint mind the whole experience at all at the time. However, I do now looking back, see that my parents were desperate at the time, and would try anything. They wasted a lot of money and hope in trying to cure their sick child.

    I always find it ironic that people bitch about paying 50 euro to a GP, who at the minimum has spent 10 years training in his/her field and yet are happy to spend double that to have a chat with a naturopath and come out with a little vial of water.

    Polestar tries alternative medicine as a child +Polestar doesnt receive any benefit from treatment=All alternative medicine is useless hocus pocus quackery.

    Hmmmm. Good argument.

    I'm yet to meet or hear of anyone leaving a naturopath with a little vial of water. Unless of course you're talking about the one you went to as a child in which case its no wonder it didnt work for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭taram


    samson09 wrote: »
    I'm yet to meet or hear of anyone leaving a naturopath with a little vial of water. Unless of course you're talking about the one you went to as a child in which case its no wonder it didnt work for you.
    But what is homeopathy if not little vials of water?? I can give people diluted substances easily, I'm not going to claim they work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    taram wrote: »
    But what is homeopathy if not little vials of water?? I can give people diluted substances easily, I'm not going to claim they work.

    Homeopathy and naturopathy are not the same.

    Homeopathists do not give people vials of water.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    samson09 wrote: »
    Homeopathy and naturopathy are not the same.

    Homeopathists do not give people vials of water.

    I've been to a homeopathist and been given a vial of water.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I've been to a homeopathist and been given a vial of water.

    Ah, but were you given a little vial of water or were you given a vial of a heavily diluted homeopathic preparation?

    And did you try more than one homeopathic remedy or like most people who complain about homeopathy, did you just try one and give up when it didnt work?

    Homeopathy recognises that no two people or their individual symptoms are the same, therefore people may have to try a couple of remedies until they find the one that hits the sweet spot.

    E.g.

    Mary and Chloe both have asthma.
    Mary takes homeopathic remedy X and no longer needs inhaler.
    Chloe takes remedy X but it has no effect.
    Chloe takes remedy Y, still nothing.
    Chloe takes remedy Z, asthma no longer a problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    samson09 wrote: »
    Ah, but were you given a little vial of water or were you given a vial of a heavily diluted homeopathic preparation?

    And did you try more than one homeopathic remedy or like most people who complain about homeopathy, did you just try one and give up when it didnt work?

    Homeopathy recognises that no two people or their individual symptoms are the same, therefore people may have to try a couple of remedies until they find the one that hits the sweet spot.

    E.g.

    Mary and Chloe both have asthma.
    Mary takes homeopathic remedy X and no longer needs inhaler.
    Chloe takes remedy X but it has no effect.
    Chloe takes remedy Y, still nothing.
    Chloe takes remedy Z, asthma no longer a problem.

    I was given water. BUt this thread is about people's experiences of alt medicines. Feel free to start a thread about the evidence for homeopathy in asthma control if you have some evidence you'd like to discuss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭samson09


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I was given water.

    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.


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