Should everyone really be allowed vote?

wylo

Ok Im not writing this as a wind up or anything. I know everyone has their rights, and one of the most important rights being voting rights. I know people died for our right to vote etc etc.

But honestly does anyone agree with me here that certain peoples votes are a slap in the face for those that did die for our right?

The reason I bring this up is because I have heard of so many blind votes in the past day or 2 from chatting to people that there's definitely more than enough completely uneducated votes to affect the outcome of an election.

One example, the one that bothered me most, a friend who is now an unemployed carpenter, started an apprenticeship 5 years ago pretty much based on the housing boom. He naturally enough had high hopes for the future. This man has absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever. He voted for a local FF candidate and when we were chatting I had to recall the politicians name as he couldn't remember. I explained to him about the likes of George lee predicting the crash, and the likes of Bertie telling people to keep buying, he just shrugged his shoulders in a lack of interest.

Its one thing voting for your own interests, thats fair enough, but its another thing voting for someone you dont even know or care about.

Sorry I know its just a bit of a rant, I just think there should be some kind of simple test, or maybe you should just have to go somewhere and read info on all candidates and then sign in to get on the register.

I know this would cost and it would probably be a waste, not to mention a reduction in voters, something no politician will support, but wouldn't it be great if everyone voting were people 'in the know'

ShooterSF

How do you suggest we check people aren't voting for stupid reasons?

gcgirl

I totally agree with you ! Some people are really as thick as 2 short planks, I myself have a lot of issues with this current government ie lack of affordable childcare,lack of Speech therapy units, withdrawal of special needs classes and whole host of other things while FF are giving Anglo Irish billions !! What bloody gives in this country can people not see that its a 2 tier sociatey we live in?

Dr. Baltar

Yes, there are idiots in this country. Yes, there are people who are so ignorant of politics in this country that they only help to damage the stability of the nation but:

In my opinion, under no circumstances should a citizen of this country ever be denied their right to vote.
In fact, I believe more people should be given the right to vote. Including 16 year olds for local elections.
Not only this, but if compulsory voting came in, I wouldn't have a problem with it so long as there was a "none of the above" option.

jhegarty

ShooterSF wrote: »

How do you suggest we check people aren't voting for stupid reasons?

Saddam managed it fairly well :rolleyes:

Dumb

True. But should these foreigners be allowed to vote. They just use the black vote and vote for any people that have black skin who are running. If no black people were running then they wouldn't bother voting.

Black people have rights but should we not limit it so that they can't vote in our country.

Dr. Baltar

Dumb wrote: »

True. But should these foreigners be allowed to vote. They just use the black vote and vote for any people that have black skin who are running. If no black people were running then they wouldn't bother voting.

Black people have rights but should we not limit it so that they can't vote in our country.

There are many black Irish citizens in this country and for this reason they should be given the same rights as any other Irish citizen. At the moment, asylum seekers in this country without complete citizenship are entitled to vote for local elections only. EU citizens who do not have full Irish citizenship are entitled to vote for both local and European elections.
I am quite content with the way things are right now.

However, I do believe that only full Irish citizens should be entitled to vote for Dáil seats.

Mint Sauce

so if you refuse one person the right to vote because of their race, where do you stop, prevent eastern europeans from voting, people who were not born in ireland, etc etc, it would be a very sad day if you started that, and one which i hope never seen being passed.

Dumb

Sir Baralot wrote: »

There are many black Irish citizens in this country and for this reason they should be given the same rights as any other Irish citizen. At the moment, asylum seekers in this country without complete citizenship are entitled to vote for local elections only. EU citizens who do not have full Irish citizenship are entitled to vote for both local and European elections.
I am quite content with the way things are right now.

However, I do believe that only full Irish citizens should be entitled to vote for Dáil seats.

Should a black species ever take part in the Dáil. Should one ever be Taoiseach or President of our country?

ShooterSF

Dumb wrote: »

True. But should these foreigners be allowed to vote. They just use the black vote and vote for any people that have black skin who are running. If no black people were running then they wouldn't bother voting.

Black people have rights but should we not limit it so that they can't vote in our country.

Yeah and them damn women only vote to get other women in. Damn feminists lets make it so only men can vote!

Dr. Baltar

Dumb wrote: »

Should a black species ever take part in the Dáil. Should one ever be Taoiseach or President of our country?

I'm not sure if you are trying to wind me up here with your severely outdated opinions, but just in case you aren't I'll bite:

Absolutely! If the majority of the people wish to see a black/white/asian/disabled/eastern european president after the results of an election then the will of the people must be respected and the only democratic thing to do should be to allow that person to accept their position as leader of this nation.

Also, there is only one race, and that is the human race.

Taxipete29

No Irish citizen should ever be denied the right to vote. That would be an even bigger slap in the face to those who died so we would have the right to vote.

The rules on non irish citizens voting are fine as they are. I see no reason to change them.

Mena

Dumb wrote: »

Should a black species ever take part in the Dáil. Should one ever be Taoiseach or President of our country?

I take note of your username and smile, but onto your question. If they are a citizen and are elected, then where exactly is the problem, or is it just the actual skin colour that concerns you?

Dumb

Sir Baralot wrote: »

I'm not sure if you are trying to wind me up here with your severely outdated opinions, but just in case you aren't I'll bite:

Absolutely! If the majority of the people wish to see a black/white/asian/disabled/eastern european president after the results of an election then the will of the people must be respected and the only democratic thing to do should be to allow that person to accept their position as leader of this nation.

Also, there is only one race, and that is the human race.

But would people like that. There are gangs in Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and in Cobh who would not be too happy. They could have their head shot off and what would happen then?

We'd be at war.

Dr. Baltar

Is the Dumb opinion (chuckle, chuckle) in this thread racist or is it a respectful right wing opinion?

Dr. Baltar

Dumb wrote: »

But would people like that. There are gangs in Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and in Cobh who would not be too happy. They could have their head shot off and what would happen then?

We'd be at war.

So we should not allow the will of the majority to come into effect because of a small minority in these places?

How hypocritical of you.

Minority A should not be allowed run the country because Minority B says so.

This is a republic and the will of the people is final.

Dumb

Mena wrote: »

I take note of your username and smile, but onto your question. If they are a citizen and are elected, then where exactly is the problem, or is it just the actual skin colour that concerns you?

But would they be elected. Is the country ready for the species to govern or would it take a few more years. I think the gangs would have something to say.

ShooterSF

Hmm. Strange. Posting history disappoints.

Dr. Baltar

Dumb wrote: »

But would they be elected. Is the country ready for the species to govern or would it take a few more years. I think the gangs would have something to say.

With all due respect I do believe that blacks and eastern european candidates would be at a serious disadvantage if they were to run for election.
However, if Barack Obama can get elected in America. Why couldn't a black person be elected here?
And believe me; the gangs in the USA are far more extreme than the ones here.

havana

I would always vote and would always ensure i have a good idea of the candidates etc. For various reasons (house moving, holidays, personal issues) this time around i was totally uneducted on the issues and really wasn't confident about voting. As the day progressed and it became clear that i was going to be cutting it tight to vote in time i was kinda glad. I just felt that i didn't know enough to make my vote count.

Dr Galen

Dumb wrote: »

But would they be elected. Is the country ready for the species to govern or would it take a few more years. I think the gangs would have something to say.

the species? what species?

i'm hoping that your not trying to be out and out racist here, but just misinformed or just a little uneducated.


*see i didn't say it

Mena

Dumb wrote: »

But would they be elected. Is the country ready for the species to govern or would it take a few more years. I think the gangs would have something to say.

1. White, black or green, we're all the same species.
2. Who the hell cares what the "gangs" would say?

Dumb

Sir Baralot wrote: »

With all due respect I do believe that blacks and eastern european candidates would be at a serious disadvantage if they were to run for election.
However, if Barack Obama can get elected in America. Why couldn't a black person be elected here?
And believe me; the gangs in the USA are far more extreme than the ones here.

What about the RIRA, CIRA etc.

Limerick gangs would stab them to death. The ones in Tallaght would blow their heads off

Dr Galen

why is that then dumb? cos they is black?

Mena

This thread is heading the way of AH I am afraid.

Dumb

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

the species? what species?

i'm hoping that your not trying to be out and out racist here, but just misinformed or just a little uneducated.


*see i didn't say it

Sorry about that. Back in my day in Tallaght they were know as the species.

jester77

Sir Baralot wrote: »

However, I do believe that only full Irish citizens should be entitled to vote for Dáil seats.

I don't agree with this. If someone is working here, paying their taxes and contributing to society then why shouldn't they get a say in the running of the country and ultimately how their taxes should be spent?

Dumb

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

why is that then dumb? cos they is black?

That would be it. I don't hate them but these gangs would pop their heads off.

oscarBravo

Dumb banned for trolling. I'm disappointed with the amount of troll-feeding that happened on this thread.

Dr. Baltar

jester77 wrote: »

I don't agree with this. If someone is working here, paying their taxes and contributing to society then why shouldn't they get a say in the running of the country and ultimately how their taxes should be spent?

Because in my opinion, I believe a person who wishes to seek asylum in this country must give to society before receiving certain benefits from our society.
I agree with 'them' being allowed a voice in local elections but I Dáil Éireann to me, as a house of national voice and not until one holds an Irish passport should they be included in that national voice.
Legally an Irish person is a person with an Irish passport and the Dáil is an Irish-only club.

Dr Galen

Dumb wrote: »

Sorry about that. Back in my day in Tallaght they were know as the species.

must be some long ago time, because I've never heard a black person being called that in Tallaght.

Dumb wrote: »

That would be it. I don't hate them but these gangs would pop their heads off.

this is obviously just your opinion, dumb, but I very much doubt that any drug gang in Tallaght is going to pop a cap in any politician's ass just because of the colour of their skin. The fallout from such a move would be so huge, it just wouldn't happen.

Dr Galen

oscarBravo wrote: »

Dumb banned for trolling. I'm disappointed with the amount of troll-feeding that happened on this thread.

fair enough

sorry OB

peanuthead

wylo wrote: »

Ok Im not writing this as a wind up or anything. I know everyone has their rights, and one of the most important rights being voting rights. I know people died for our right to vote etc etc.

But honestly does anyone agree with me here that certain peoples votes are a slap in the face for those that did die for our right?

The reason I bring this up is because I have heard of so many blind votes in the past day or 2 from chatting to people that there's definitely more than enough completely uneducated votes to affect the outcome of an election.

One example, the one that bothered me most, a friend who is now an unemployed carpenter, started an apprenticeship 5 years ago pretty much based on the housing boom. He naturally enough had high hopes for the future. This man has absolutely no interest in politics whatsoever. He voted for a local FF candidate and when we were chatting I had to recall the politicians name as he couldn't remember. I explained to him about the likes of George lee predicting the crash, and the likes of Bertie telling people to keep buying, he just shrugged his shoulders in a lack of interest.

Its one thing voting for your own interests, thats fair enough, but its another thing voting for someone you dont even know or care about.

Sorry I know its just a bit of a rant, I just think there should be some kind of simple test, or maybe you should just have to go somewhere and read info on all candidates and then sign in to get on the register.

I know this would cost and it would probably be a waste, not to mention a reduction in voters, something no politician will support, but wouldn't it be great if everyone voting were people 'in the know'

I absolutely agree whole-heardedly. I have a friend, who is well into her 20's, and would like to think she knows the in's and out's of politics. I never really noticed that she was so clueless before to be honest, we wouldn't ever really discuss politics, and I suppose when we did she was obviously getting by on the opinions of others she had heard discussing such things.

Two whoppers she came out with this week:

1. When we were in a different area to our local one:

"All the politicians around here are different to the ones back home. You don't see any of these lot advertising themselves around home. Too lazy I suppose"

2. And then again, yesterday [note, after voting was OVER]

"Where are all Enda Kenny's posters? I havent seen any for him. I'm definately not voting for him, thats for sure!"


Now thank God she didn't cast her vote, because I shudder to think who would have gotten it!!

Rb

Mena, if people are anti-black power in this country I'd imagine it's out of a fear of their possible agenda, be it secret or public, and the effect it would have on the country/nation.

It's like black people in America only voting for Obama because they think he'll have a totally pro-black agenda (despite there being no obvious one in his public policies irc).

Dr. Baltar

This is exactly like the French Islamophobia.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate....
If we fear the minorities we give them a reason to begin an agenda.
Only by accepting them into our society as equal indivuals (when they get their passport of course ) then we prevent a "black agenda" from ever being created.

Rb

Sir Baralot wrote: »

This is exactly like the French Islamophobia.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate....
If we fear the minorities we give them a reason to begin an agenda.
Only by accepting them into our society as equal indivuals (when they get their passport of course ) then we prevent a "black agenda" from ever being created.

Indeed, however I have to respectfully disagree with regards to Muslims/Islam.

markopantelic

why are british citizens allowed to vote in general election yet other people can't????? madness.

Dr. Baltar

markopantelic wrote: »

why are british citizens allowed to vote in general election yet other people can't????? madness.

I am unsure about that but I believe that sytem was put into effect to allow people living in the North to move down here and automatically be allowed vote in the Dáil because before the good friday agreement many northerners did not have an Irish passport and just a british passport.
People living in the North of Ireland have always been seen as "Irish" not "Foreign".

Pygmalion

Does anyone here really believe that there's some kind of secret black/muslim agenda? Even in Ireland?

markopantelic

ah ok thanks

wylo

im really lost as to where the black vote, or certain citizens not being able to vote comes into all this.

All im saying is you should have to prove your knowledge on the subject before voting,even if its very very limited knowledge. Maybe not even a test, just something where you have to sign in somewhere ,sit down and read a few pamplets , or if you cant read or are blind, get explained by someone the basics like whos running and what their policies are.

And to the poster who mentioned 16 year old voting, id be all on for it, even younger,14 or 15 maybe, but again, I think they should have to go through this system to prove theyre interested in who runs the country.

People say no one should ever be denied a vote,
I say people that dont care one way or the other should never have a right to have an input into who runs our country.
Its so frustrating meeting people who voted a certain way who dont even have the slightest opinion on it. Im not just talking about FF voters,im talking about everyone.

In the example I gave at the start,if that person voted for FF and gave me his reasons , it wouldnt have bothered me in the slightest.

markopantelic

what about some people who vote depending on social issues but don't care or have knowledge about economical issues?

i mean the masses in ireland don't seem to care about idealogical politics, the interest in politics has gone into overdrive lately with downturn but i find it boring tbh.

Well, here's my view

Everyone's allowed vote in whatever way they choose.

You live in the world with these stupid people, and if you think stupid people shouldn't vote, then you should be stopped by whatever means necessary.

It's a fundamental right. You don't like what they do with it? Tough sh*t. Educate people as best you can, that's the best you can do.

markopantelic

the problem with ireland is all of our smart forward thinking open minded people emmigrated in the 60's/70's and 80's, its unbelievable at a time when europe in the 60's was going through with great changes ireland was left behind

in other countries most of the lower class emmigrate but not ireland, in most countries the more wealth you have the more likely you are to vote, not in ireland, in most countries the more urban you are the most likely you will vote but not in ireland.

ShooterSF

wylo wrote: »

People say no one should ever be denied a vote,
I say people that dont care one way or the other should never have a right to have an input into who runs our country.
Its so frustrating meeting people who voted a certain way who dont even have the slightest opinion on it. Im not just talking about FF voters,im talking about everyone.

In the example I gave at the start,if that person voted for FF and gave me his reasons , it wouldnt have bothered me in the slightest.

The question again then is are you just discussing ideology or have you any idea how to even implement such a situation?

Mena

Sir Baralot wrote: »

Because in my opinion, I believe a person who wishes to seek asylum in this country must give to society before receiving certain benefits from our society.
I agree with 'them' being allowed a voice in local elections but I Dáil Éireann to me, as a house of national voice and not until one holds an Irish passport should they be included in that national voice.
Legally an Irish person is a person with an Irish passport and the Dáil is an Irish-only club.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but Immigrants do not necessarily equal Asylum Seeker. There are other forms of immigration into Ireland.

As to your main point, as a legal economic migrant into Ireland of 10 years now, I agree. I don't see why non-Irish citizens would be allowed to vote (if we leave out all my idealistic ramblings) for national Dáil Éireann elections. The system as it stands appears fine to me. Besides, with the way my tax money is currently being turned into toilet paper the Government sure as hell don't want me to be able to vote!

wylo

markopantelic wrote: »

what about some people who vote depending on social issues but don't care or have knowledge about economical issues?

well youve just proven you cared and want to vote for a reason, so then you shouldnt have a problem going in and commiting 5 to 10 mins of your time to signing in somewhere, reading some info to get on the register.

wylo

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, here's my view

Everyone's allowed vote in whatever way they choose.

You live in the world with these stupid people, and if you think stupid people shouldn't vote, then you should be stopped by whatever means necessary.

It's a fundamental right. You don't like what they do with it? Tough sh*t. Educate people as best you can, that's the best you can do.

My idea on it has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence whatsoever, and apologies if I came across as if it did, but I even mentioned that some one cant read then they could get explained whos running and what their policies are.

So again, stupid people not being allowed vote is insanity, however people with no interest not being allowed , thats fair enough in my opinion.

All im saying is if you want to vote you have to put a bit more effort into your vote. Make it mean something.

wylo

ShooterSF wrote: »

The question again then is are you just discussing ideology or have you any idea how to even implement such a situation?

Ideology tbh, do you think for a second even one politician would promote this??? Its a numbers game for them
Why would the government "waste" money on something that would probably have an instant negative effect on their success at staying in power.

ShooterSF

wylo wrote: »

Ideology tbh, do you think for a second even one politician would promote this??? Its a numbers game for them
Why would the government "waste" money on something that would probably have an instant negative effect on their success at staying in power.

See I agree with the idea, I just couldn't see any real way of implementing it. However on the same lines we could ban candidate posters that offer no information other than a picture and a name and have the parties use the money to put on open days for the public to attend. Therefore giving people a better chance to be informed.

dave-higgz

wylo wrote: »

im really lost as to where the black vote, or certain citizens not being able to vote comes into all this.

All im saying is you should have to prove your knowledge on the subject before voting,even if its very very limited knowledge. Maybe not even a test, just something where you have to sign in somewhere ,sit down and read a few pamplets , or if you cant read or are blind, get explained by someone the basics like whos running and what their policies are.

And to the poster who mentioned 16 year old voting, id be all on for it, even younger,14 or 15 maybe, but again, I think they should have to go through this system to prove theyre interested in who runs the country.

People say no one should ever be denied a vote,
I say people that dont care one way or the other should never have a right to have an input into who runs our country.
Its so frustrating meeting people who voted a certain way who dont even have the slightest opinion on it. Im not just talking about FF voters,im talking about everyone.

In the example I gave at the start,if that person voted for FF and gave me his reasons , it wouldnt have bothered me in the slightest.

16 is a good age I think. 14 and 15 year olds wouldn't have completed CSPE for junior cert and in many cases they'd be immature (I know there's immaturity in all demographics, but I'd say more so in the young teenagers.) Also in my own case the completion of transition year has given me a huge interest in politics and I feel I've matured from it. These are milestones that I feel teenagers need to pass before they can vote.