Turkish GP Discussion

amacachi

Does anyone else think that Brawn, or at least Button, seems to have about half a second of pace anytime he feels like it?

riemann

betafrog wrote: »

It is quite incredible, Button had a heavier load than Vettel and yet was able to pass him and then pull anything from 0.5 to 1.0 secs a lap for the first few laps...

He only passed him after Vettel ran wide?

That Brawn must be in a field of its own.

One of the more boring GP's so far although you wouldnt think that listening to Brundle and co come in their pants.

When are we going to get a race where a few cars are capable of matching each other at the front? At this rate I'll hardly last the season.

amacachi

It just reminds of Bourdais in the final Champ Car season. He'd lead by a little bit, pull away by a tenth or two a lap. Then when the people behind pitted he'd put in a storming lap, pit, and still be ahead. He was so much faster he could afford to take it easy and play it safe in case there was a safety car or something.

Monkeybonkers

Highlight of the race: Naomi Campbell on the grid before the race. She was asked who she was supporting. "England! says she. "So you'll be cheering for Button" says Brundle. "No, England" replies the angry one. Good to see the true fans at these races!
Most boring race of the season.
Not a whole load of supporters at the race either.

Running Bing

When Turkey was first introduced I liked it a lot but todays race was an absolute stinker.


Fair dues to Button though, he is driving like a champion. Has not put a foot wrong.

EvilMonkey

Boring race the only entertainment was the start and the bottler Barrichello. I dont care if Button keeps winning but i would like to see races where he is pushed to the last lap, at the minute in F1 the race is decided after the first round of pitstops.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

at the minute in F1 the race is decided after the first round of pitstops.

More like at the first couple of corners

One of the most boring to date

@Running Bing
No
He is not driving like a champ ( I am not saying he is a bad driver as I know he is good )
BUT
It is the car
Take for example Barrichellos car.
He got stuck behind Kekki's McLasrne which must be one of the worst,If not THE worst car on the grid and he was getting nowhere.
I have a feeling if the Brawn cars could get swallowed up on the fist corner and ended behind 6 or so cars then it would be game over for them.

pburns

vectra wrote: »

More like at the first couple of corners

One of the most boring to date

@Running Bing
No
He is not driving like a champ ( I am not saying he is a bad driver as I know he is good )
BUT
It is the car
Take for example Barrichellos car.
He got stuck behind Kekki's McLasrne which must be one of the worst,If not THE worst car on the grid and he was getting nowhere.
I have a feeling if the Brawn cars could get swallowed up on the fist corner and ended behind 6 or so cars then it would be game over for them.

What are you saying here?

Yeah of course if they get swallowed up by 5 or 6 cars at the start it's gonna be bads news!

Leaving all the fanboy stuff aside I think Jenson's smooth style is ideally suited to the new rule changes and especially the situation where tyres have to be effectively managed and preserved. After years of crap cars he's hit the jackpot not just with a great car but a team that is built around him and rules that suit his style.

Commentaters keep saying it's Schumiesque and Brit-bias aside you'd have to agree. What's the common denominator - why Ross Brawn of course!

Which is why I believe now more than ever that there is bugger all between any of the top drivers - Scumi, Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and to an extent Massa all have their fanboys but really it all depends on the way the car, the team and the rules come together at a particular time for certain drivers. Kinda depressing but there you go...

amacachi

I think the only way someone can drive like a champion in vectra's opinion is if he turns up in a Micra and still wins the race.

That or be called Kimi.

vectra

Sorry guys
Ye are on the wrong bandwagon there
My comment above has nothing to do with Kimi or Fanboys ( or micras ):D

What i am suggesting is that the reason Button is so far out front is because
1) Honda spend a fortune and a LONG TIME developing that car while others were racing
2) Reading the rule book that they got along with Williams and Toyota while the other teams got a Guideline book

enzo7

there is nothing "scumiesque" about button. they only thing they hav in common is ross brawn who is fantastic at what he does but make no mistake about it schumacher would hav made it with or without ross brawn, just hav to look at his 3 win in 96 he was an incrediable talent!!. the reason schumacher ended up having the best cars is because he worked his a*s off to ensure he had it. to put alonso, kimi ,ham + co. into the same bracket as schumacher is the biggest insult to his talent and what he achieved. plenty of drivers hav had d best car but none hav come close to winning 7 world titles.

anyway regards button i think hell may hav frozen over because i found myself defending him to someone earlier, listen he wouldnt be top of my list for world champion but in fairness to him his driving fantastic, and it has alot to do with the fact his landed in car that is d class of the field but he still has to keep it on the track. would luv to see how he'd cope under pressure do. but fair play to him.

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Sorry guys
Ye are on the wrong bandwagon there
My comment above has nothing to do with Kimi or Fanboys ( or micras ):D

What i am suggesting is that the reason Button is so far out front is because
1) Honda spend a fortune and a LONG TIME developing that car while others were racing
2) Reading the rule book that they got along with Williams and Toyota while the other teams got a Guideline book

What would Button have to do to drive like a champ then? Best his teammate at every race so far maybe? Win the title?

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

What would Button have to do to drive like a champ then? Best his teammate at every race so far maybe? Win the title?

Well
he did best his teammate at each race so far didnt he
But
Then again
Ross Brawn did that to Rubens before as it happens :rolleyes:

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Well
he did best his teammate at each race so far didnt he
But
Then again
Ross Brawn did that to Rubens before as it happens :rolleyes:

ross brawn did nothing to rubens now r b4, both schumacher and button this year hav been far better than him and thats the reason they came out on top. the whole no.2 thing at ferrari was totally blown outa porpotion yes schumacher had it written in his contract but all that ment he got first choice in new parts ect. but thats an unwritten rule in all team ,the teams top driver get new parts first. the only diffrence at ferrari was inwas in writeing.if rubens was any good he would hav been running away with the championship not trailing behind picking up buttons crumbs.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

ross brawn did nothing to rubens now r b4, both schumacher and button this year hav been far better than him and thats the reason they came out on top. the whole no.2 thing at ferrari was totally blown outa porpotion yes schumacher had it written in his contract but all that ment he got first choice in new parts ect. but thats an unwritten rule in all team ,the teams top driver get new parts first. the only diffrence at ferrari was inwas in writeing.if rubens was any good he would hav been running away with the championship not trailing behind picking up buttons crumbs.

I am not getting into an argument here
I repeat
I AM NOT GETTING INTO AN ARGUMENT

Did you miss out on Rubens Statement recently?
whre he queried as to being a No2 in a team?
he did remind Ross that they were both in that situation previously.

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

I am not getting into an argument here
I repeat
I AM NOT GETTING INTO AN ARGUMENT

Did you miss out on Rubens Statement recently?
whre he queried as to being a No2 in a team?
he did remind Ross that they were both in that situation previously.

im not saying he wasnt a "no2" at ferrari because he was my point was even without they having it in writeing schumacher would still hav been no.1 in the team because he was the better driver but all teams do the same thing maclaren williams renault ect. the better driver get the new parts first ect.the only diffrence schumacher had it in writing, rubens lives in a fantasyland if he thinks the only reason schumacher beat him was because of that "contract". those recent comments from rubens quering his status in the team were petty and made him sound like a sore loosers , button is beating him because his doing a better job and if he think it because ross is favouring button then he really does live in a fantasyland.

Top Dog

vectra wrote: »

Take for example Barrichellos car.
He got stuck behind Kekki's McLasrne which must be one of the worst,If not THE worst car on the grid and he was getting nowhere.
I have a feeling if the Brawn cars could get swallowed up on the fist corner and ended behind 6 or so cars then it would be game over for them.

Barichello had no 7th gear (hence his retirement towards the end) so the comparison with the McLaren of Kovi is not really a true reflection of the Brawn's performance. Long straights Kovi hits the KERS button while Rubens hits the limiter in 6th and prays for the end of the straight to arrive sooner rather than later. Hardly a true representation of the difference between the 2 cars

Grim.

/Gets popcorn

vectra

Top Dog wrote: »

Barichello had no 7th gear (hence his retirement towards the end) so the comparison with the McLaren of Kovi is not really a true reflection of the Brawn's performance. Long straights Kovi hits the KERS button while Rubens hits the limiter in 6th and prays for the end of the straight to arrive sooner rather than later. Hardly a true representation of the difference between the 2 cars

You do realise that Barichello comp[leted 47 laps.?

That 7th gear problem was not there all through the race.

So the comparision between Kovi and Ruby stands to be effective

It was coming out of the corners that Kovi left Ruby for dead ( I assume with the use of Kers )

Charlie-Bravo

On the BBC coverage did anyone hear Hamilton talking to Lee McKenzie, wishing the 'guys at the front a good race'!! It's as if he hasn't a clue that he is in the same race as 19 other guys with a chance - (not that Button made it easy for anyone today!).

Any time I hear Hamilton talking, he sounds so false, thanking the team, what good work the guys back in Brackley have done....in fact I have never heard him take any credit for himself....McLaren have brainwashed the guy!

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It doesnt matter how often he was having problems with 7th gear it was killing him when it did happen. When I saw the onboard of him following Kovi up the hill after turn 8 I was wondering what was going on.

He was right up his gearbox and then kovi just vanished, even with KERS that wouldnt happen. Loosing your final gear is going to put a complete dampener on your race. Rubens would dive up the inside of Kovi pull away and then get passed on the high speed sections.

I understand that but didnt the problem with his gears only come into it later on in the race?
I didnt hear anything regarding a problem earlier
He did make lots of mistakes and spun etc while he was pushing.

Slutmonkey57b

enzo7 wrote: »

anyway regards button i think hell may hav frozen over because i found myself defending him to someone earlier, listen he wouldnt be top of my list for world champion but in fairness to him his driving fantastic, and it has alot to do with the fact his landed in car that is d class of the field but he still has to keep it on the track. would luv to see how he'd cope under pressure do. but fair play to him.

vectra wrote:

@Running Bing
No
He is not driving like a champ ( I am not saying he is a bad driver as I know he is good )
BUT
It is the car

Funny how when Schumacher was winning, it was the driver. Now, it's the car.

Pulling out the fastest lap he can at the dying seconds of qualifying to put himself on the front of the grid, or pole, when his teammate has been faster than him all weekend, is Championship driving.
Spending the practice weekend practicing (as opposed to meaningless showboating) is championship driving.
Controlling what others are able to do to him, what and where he gets involved, is championship driving.
He has driven every race and every qualifying flawlessly. Has he made an error at all, at any race this season? I think I saw him make a small one at one corner in Singapore, but that was it.
He's been hot favorite to win since Australia. In fact, the hype was building after the Brawn did its first official test, remember? Not onec has he let the pressure get to him, or shown any sign of weakness.

People mistake heroic looking lairy overtaking maneuvres for "Champion" driving. His character is showing through, and he deserves every point he scores this year.

pburns wrote: »

Which is why I believe now more than ever that there is bugger all between any of the top drivers - Scumi, Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi and to an extent Massa all have their fanboys but really it all depends on the way the car, the team and the rules come together at a particular time for certain drivers. Kinda depressing but there you go...

+1 As button said to Clarkson... One Hundred Percent.

Top Dog

Ummm, I think you'll find he actually retired on lap 49? Classified as +11 laps at the end (full race being 58 laps ).

Haven't yet seen a report that states where or when exactly he lost 7th gear so can't really comment beyond that.

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

there is nothing "scumiesque" about button. they only thing they hav in common is ross brawn who is fantastic at what he does but make no mistake about it schumacher would hav made it with or without ross brawn, just hav to look at his 3 win in 96 he was an incrediable talent!!. the reason schumacher ended up having the best cars is because he worked his a*s off to ensure he had it. to put alonso, kimi ,ham + co. into the same bracket as schumacher is the biggest insult to his talent and what he achieved. plenty of drivers hav had d best car but none hav come close to winning 7 world titles.
.

Absolute horseshyte. Schumacher worked his ass off, but if a donkey were building the car he'd have gotten nowhere. Brawn is a fantastic engineer. His results speak for themselves. Brawn and Schumacher together brought Ferrari from the doldrums. Schumacher couldn't have done near as well with "anyone".

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Funny how when Schumacher was winning, it was the driver. Now, it's the car.

Pulling out the fastest lap he can at the dying seconds of qualifying to put himself on the front of the grid, or pole, when his teammate has been faster than him all weekend, is Championship driving.
Spending the practice weekend practicing (as opposed to meaningless showboating) is championship driving.
Controlling what others are able to do to him, what and where he gets involved, is championship driving.
He has driven every race and every qualifying flawlessly. Has he made an error at all, at any race this season? I think I saw him make a small one at one corner in Singapore, but that was it.
He's been hot favorite to win since Australia. In fact, the hype was building after the Brawn did its first official test, remember? Not onec has he let the pressure get to him, or shown any sign of weakness.

People mistake heroic looking lairy overtaking maneuvres for "Champion" driving. His character is showing through, and he deserves every point he scores this year.



+1 As button said to Clarkson... One Hundred Percent.

I think you will find in any of my posts that I for one NEVER said it was Driver when Schumacher was winning as I never really liked him.

As for button driving flawlessly
hmm.
(How do I say this without giving the wrong impression )
ah,!
Hamilton last year was driving "Supremely "
Button this year is driving "Supremely"

Explain to me why Hamilton is not driving "Supremely" this year please.

Top Dog wrote: »

Ummm, I think you'll find he actually retired on lap 49? Classified as +11 laps at the end (full race being 58 laps ).

Haven't yet seen a report that states where or when exactly he lost 7th gear so can't really comment beyond that.

DOH..

I must have went to the wrong school ( Or else I am getting old )
I always thought 58 - 11 ( 11 laps down ) - 47

Correct the old boy if I am wrong :cool:

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

As for button driving flawlessly
hmm.
(How do I say this without giving the wrong impression )
ah,!
Hamilton last year was driving "Supremely "
Button this year is driving "Supremely"

Explain to me why Hamilton is not driving "Supremely" this year please.

What does Hamilton's driving last year have to do with whether or not Button is making mistakes this year?

Nothing whatsoever.

If you say he's not driving flawlessly, then please feel free to show us examples of all the heinous errors he's been making. I for one haven't seen any.

EvilMonkey

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Funny how when Schumacher was winning, it was the driver. Now, it's the car.

Schumacher didn't have the best car for all of his championships.

Irishshin

Boring race. Very boring. Most excitment was Rubens move on Kovi and Piquet's on Hamilton. That was about it.
I hope Button wins in Silverstone. But after that I wanna see someone else win! And some more racing!! Way more racing.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

What does Hamilton's driving last year have to do with whether or not Button is making mistakes this year?

Nothing whatsoever.

If you say he's not driving flawlessly, then please feel free to show us examples of all the heinous errors he's been making. I for one haven't seen any.

I knew you would avoid my meaning.

My point was as follows

07-08 season
Hamilton was the Class of the field ( Not in my view )
I am speaking from reports.

07 Button was nowhere

09 Hamilton is Nowhere and is he now that class of the field?
NO
Why?
He has not got the car under him to do so.

09 Button driving Flawlessly
Why?
Because it seems his car is like it is on rails.
Would he be driving as good if the car was only mediocre?
would he be ahead by as mush if No car started this season with a DDD ?

Nope
Hopefully you get my drift.
I dont want to get in any arguments as i already stated regarding this.:D

Top Dog

vectra wrote: »

DOH..

I must have went to the wrong school ( Or else I am getting old )
I always thought 58 - 11 ( 11 laps down ) - 47

Correct the old boy if I am wrong :cool:

Damnit. I knew I was tired but didn't realise my brain was slowing so much that I can't even manage simple maths Must have been the boring ass race this afternoon that caused it to shutdown :pac:

Apologies Vectra

vectra

Top Dog wrote: »

Damnit. I knew I was tired but didn't realise my brain was slowing so much that I can't even manage simple maths Must have been the boring ass race this afternoon that caused it to shutdown :pac:

Apologies Vectra

LOL
go to bed

enzo7

Biro wrote: »

Absolute horseshyte. Schumacher worked his ass off, but if a donkey were building the car he'd have gotten nowhere. Brawn is a fantastic engineer. His results speak for themselves. Brawn and Schumacher together brought Ferrari from the doldrums. Schumacher couldn't have done near as well with "anyone".

r u for real???? the guy won 7 world championships brawn has worked with alot of driver name one who has come close to schumacher??? to say schmacher success it down ross brawn alone is bull!! schumacher won 3 races in 96 because of his talent and his talent alone because he didnt hav ross to "win" them for him.

there is no denying ross is fantastic at what he does, im a huge fan of his and delighted for him that his team are doing so well. he was technical director at ferrari he was the brains behind race strategies but the best strategies in the world wont work without the "driver". it was actually rory byrne who was designer at ferrari not ross, schumacher tested every part of those cars it was his feed back that improved those car and made them world beater!! after his very first race people were talking about when he would win his first title not if , because his talent was clear to see. im actually shocked there is people out there who still cant accept schumacher was such a huge talent!!

and if ross takes button to anywhere near 3 titles ill eat my words!!

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

I knew you would avoid my meaning.

What either driver did last year, the year before, or the years since has nothing do do with how Button is driving this year.

Answer the question or zip it:

What mistakes has Button made this year while driving?

Slutmonkey57b

enzo7 wrote: »

there is no denying ross is fantastic at what he does, im a huge fan of his and delighted for him that his team are doing so well. he was technical director at ferrari he was the brains behind race strategies but the best strategies in the world wont work without the "driver". it was actually rory byrne who was designer at ferrari not ross, schumacher tested every part of those cars it was his feed back that improved those car and made them world beater!! after his very first race people were talking about when he would win his first title not if , because his talent was clear to see. im actually shocked there is people out there who still cant accept schumacher was such a huge talent!!

Schumacher was a huge talent. What I (at least) said was that when Schumacher was dominating, all the talk was of how he was one of the greatest drivers ever, not of how the car or engineers underneath him were propelling him to that success. When other drivers are winning, it's all apparently down to the car. Give the drivers some credit. or give the same level of credit to Schu's cars. They're all at the mercy of their car. And the other interesting thing this year is that the whole field is seperated by a tiny margin - 1 to 1 1/2 seconds. In previous years, how many seconds seperated the polesitter's lap from the man in last? Assuming the man in last was capable of finishing a race. The field is closer, and the cars all the way down the field, more reliable this year than any in memory. It just doesn't seem like it because the cars still can't overtake.

and if ross takes button to anywhere near 3 titles ill eat my words!!

The only good judge of whether Button is comparable is Ross. He has stated that he's very impressed with his driver. That's good enough for me.

enzo7

but schumacher was the greatest driver ever! listen my point with schumacher is ,for example the ferrrari years the 96 car was crap but he still dragged it to 3 race wins. he tested+tested those car to improve them and make them world beater along with the team but for someone to say his success was down to ross brawn alone is crap and its an insult to his talent!

as for button ill never been his biggest fan but he is driving really well and i do give him credit for that. i think the reason people say its down to his car well i do anyway, is his done nothing for 8yrs and suddenly his winning all round him so it does make you question is it really him or his car thats winning??, but regardless if its his car or talent his grabbing this chance with both hands to fair play to him.

Creeping-Death

Ross Brawn. Without him i dont think Schumacher would have had the car or race strategy to win.
Ross Brawn. Without him Button would not have a car at all.

End Transmission

enzo7

ross brawn never designed any of schumachers cars his not a designer, his stratagies wont work without a driver to implement them.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It always annoys me when people say it was all the car, as if schumacher just had to sit in the car on a Sunday and it would drive itself to the chequered flag. He was immense in testing and was brilliant at giving feedback to the designers. He helped make each car better and better and his record speaks for itself.

Agreed 100%
But
Dont tell me Button has done the same with his engineers and designers of this car?

riemann

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

What mistakes has Button made this year while driving?

Have a look at his final Q3 lap yesterday for several errors.

Then look at vettels.

Its a shame barrichello stalled on the grid else the race would have been much closer. Vettel would have opened up a decent gap in clean air and his 3 stop would have put him in with a real chance of victory. A lot if ifs and buts but there you go, Button did all he needed to do to win but he hasnt done enough, or been pushed hard enough this season to be called a credible world champion which is getting closer by the day unfortunately.

Top Dog

Creeping-Death wrote: »

Ross Brawn. Without him i dont think Schumacher would have had the car or race strategy to win.
Ross Brawn. Without him Button would not have a car at all.

End Transmission

Brawn had nothing to do with the car Schumacher was driving. That was down to Schumi and the engineers, nothing to do with Brawn's strategic abilities.

riemann wrote: »

Button did all he needed to do to win but he hasnt done enough, or been pushed hard enough this season to be called a credible world champion which is getting closer by the day unfortunately.

I'd still prefer to have him as WC over Hamilton. And in fairness to him, you say yourself he has done all he needed to do - is that not an indication of Champion material? Knowing when to push and when to ease back a bit? Sure, he's not in the same league as Schumi and others, but he's still conducting himself in a manner befitting a champ.

Slutmonkey57b

A couple of slight apex errors one one qualifying lap, compared to the polesitter, fair enough. Still only a few hundredths out, and proved unflappable and error-free in the race.

If the most heinous errors he's made are being slightly off line in one qualifying session, then I'll take that as reasonable. Drivers are good, they're not complete robots. Even Schu ddn't qualify pole every race.

Vettel was trying to push him plenty hard (albeit not mansell vs senna monaco hard) and got very studiously ignored by Button. As was pointed out after the race, look at the state of Button vs. Vettel when going out to the podium. Button looked like he was just warming up, Vettel was sweating buckets and on the verge of collapse.

smooch71

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

Highlight of the race: Naomi Campbell on the grid before the race. She was asked who she was supporting. "England! says she. "So you'll be cheering for Button" says Brundle. "No, England" replies the angry one. Good to see the true fans at these races!
Most boring race of the season.
Not a whole load of supporters at the race either.

And then she's seen loitering around the Ferrari pit.

What part of England is Maranello in anyway?

enzo7

smooch71 wrote: »

And then she's seen loitering around the Ferrari pit.

What part of England is Maranello in anyway?

last time i was there it was in italy but maybe it has moved:D
seriously doe that really annoys me when i see idiots loke her hav that kinda access to a grand prix.

smooch71

enzo7 wrote: »

last time i was there it was in italy but maybe it has moved:D
seriously doe that really annoys me when i see idiots loke her hav that kinda access to a grand prix.

Yeah, considering she hadn't a clue where she was, what she was at or what teams were "playing"

And us mere mortals pay top dollar to sit on a gravelly hill to watch them!

Biro

enzo7 wrote: »

r u for real???? the guy won 7 world championships brawn has worked with alot of driver name one who has come close to schumacher??? to say schmacher success it down ross brawn alone is bull!! schumacher won 3 races in 96 because of his talent and his talent alone because he didnt hav ross to "win" them for him.

there is no denying ross is fantastic at what he does, im a huge fan of his and delighted for him that his team are doing so well. he was technical director at ferrari he was the brains behind race strategies but the best strategies in the world wont work without the "driver". it was actually rory byrne who was designer at ferrari not ross, schumacher tested every part of those cars it was his feed back that improved those car and made them world beater!! after his very first race people were talking about when he would win his first title not if , because his talent was clear to see. im actually shocked there is people out there who still cant accept schumacher was such a huge talent!!

and if ross takes button to anywhere near 3 titles ill eat my words!!

You completely missed my point. I'm not sure if I should bother explaining.

enzo7

Biro wrote: »

You completely missed my point. I'm not sure if I should bother explaining.

you think schumacher wouldnt be a 7times world champion without brawn, i think he still would hav been because he was a big enough talent. brawn made life easier for schumacher maybe but if brawn wasnt there they would hav been someone else. because all brawn did at ferrari was add up the maths for the pit stops he didnt design the car, he didnt develope it and he didnt run the team. both jean todt and rory byrne had a much bigger impact on schumachers success than ross did.
His role at brawn gp it competely diffrent and he is doing a fantastic job and im happy for him, and a huge part of the team success is down to him because he has a much bigger role at brawn than he did at ferrari.
anyway this is just my view ,you hav your we'll agree ti disagree on this one:)

Slutmonkey57b

enzo7 wrote: »

you think schumacher wouldnt be a 7times world champion without brawn, i think he still would hav been because he was a big enough talent. brawn made life easier for schumacher maybe but if brawn wasnt there they would hav been someone else. because all brawn did at ferrari was add up the maths for the pit stops he didnt design the car, he didnt develope it and he didnt run the team. both jean todt and rory byrne had a much bigger impact on schumachers success than ross did.
His role at brawn gp it competely diffrent and he is doing a fantastic job and im happy for him, and a huge part of the team success is down to him because he has a much bigger role at brawn than he did at ferrari.
anyway this is just my view ,you hav your we'll agree ti disagree on this one:)

If you follow Brawn's career, you'll see just how wrong you are, and you misunderstand what the role of Technical Director is in an F1 team. He's a legend in the paddock for a very good reason.

enzo7

i hav followed his career i know very well what a technical director is and i hav a huge amount of respect for him and his talent, but for someone to say schumacher wouldnt hav acheived what he has without brawn is bull!! that was d point im trying to make its no disrespect to ross, but i think flavio briatorie, jean todt ,rory byrne and willi webber had a far bigger impact on schumachers career than ross has. ross never ran any of schumachers teams nor did he design any of his car or invest a penny in his career. unless ive taken biro up completely wrong (if i hav i apoligise). the argument was about weather schumacher would hav won 7 titles without ross brawn, i think he still would hav because the guy was a legend in a f1 car.

vectra

E.J. had the biggest impact on Schumachers career by giving him his first drive

enzo7

true it all down to ej:D

Biro

Schumacher was the best driver any team could have had, and he put in trojan work through the years for developing the Ferrari. But you under estimating Brawn's work is as silly as when you thought I was under estimating Schumacher's work. Brawn is the best technical director in the paddock, he always pushed the rules to the max to get the best, sometimes to the point where they had to clarify the rules and make them change, but he never broke the rules. The new team is just proving him. One season is all it took him to develop a championship winning car. Underestimate him at your peril, but watch the titles roll in!